How much golf needed to get to/maintain scratch?

[Pepperturbo]

19 hours ago, milesgiles said:

For almost everyone, its a lot of work to get to scratch. Golf pretty much has to be your main focus. Maintaining it is a different matter.

Yes, a lot of work. 

 

When I was learning it was my main focus.  Fortunately, running a company with management in place, allowed me a lot of flexibility.   Having a child can really throw a wrench into the gears.

 

What's needed to maintain scratch or even low single digit depends on the person.  Some can do it without much effort, others can't.  Some years back at my club, I watched a 2-3 index buddy lose his mental connection to his swing, so he went to 12/13 in over a year.

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

Yes, a lot of work. 

 

When I was learning it was my main focus.  Fortunately, running a company with management in place, allowed me a lot of flexibility.   Having a child can really throw a wrench into the gears.

 

What's needed to maintain scratch or even low single digit depends on the person.  Some can do it without much effort, others can't.  Some years back at my club, I watched a 2-3 index buddy lose his mental connection to his swing, so he went to 12/13 in over a year.

Low single digit and scratch at not the same thing. 

[YMark]

2 hours ago, Krt22 said:

Low single digit and scratch at not the same thing. 

 

You got that right, it's a wide gap. Much much wider than a 10 to a low single digit.

[Ty_Webb]

23 minutes ago, YMark said:

 

You got that right, it's a wide gap. Much much wider than a 10 to a low single digit.

14vs12 is a difference but a small one 

5vs7 is a bigger difference. Takes work to make that gap

0vs2 is a big difference. Really hard to make the step

+4 vs +2 is a vast chasm. You have to make a really significant improvement in more than one part of the game to make that step.

+8 vs +6 is the difference between top ten in the world and also ran on the KFT. 0.1 of a stroke at that level is hard work and a lot of it. 
 

incremental improvement at the top levels are thousands of hours of effort/colossal talent differential

[playit]

I had a 2-3 index for many years. At age 48, I had flex hours. I decided to go for it, to get to scratch or better. It was a lot of work but I did it. Got to +1.2 but I played 4-5x/wk and practiced quite a bit. Was lots of work to get to scratch. I guess that was a couple of years process. Shoulder injury ruined it all. At age 67, I haven't played in eight years now but getting back in it. If the shoulder (and also a dang left hand injury) will allow. I had rotator cuff surgery after the plus days were achieved and did all I was told to do by the doc and therapists, but I was never the same, kept injuring it when trying to start up again. I'd get frustrated when I could not play any better than, say, a 3 index, even after six months of hard work to get it back. It's funny, once you are able to almost always know where the ball is going on every shot, once you lose that and dispersion is worse, it takes the fun out of it. Did for me, anyway. I love golf, love being outdoors, but dang it, not being able to play like I used to really gets to me. We'll see how this new attempt goes.

 

I didn't really take up golf until I was 21. I think that players who are able to maintain scratch without playing or practicing much are those who started as very young kids. But I also think that they are pretty dang rare to actually play to scratch without some effort. I think most of those are really not scratch but a 1 to 3. Or either they play an easy track or don't play it down or take putts "in the leather." But, I am sure there are a few out there who can do what this thread suggests. I just don't there's as many as people tend to think there are. I know a guy who was actually a PGA pro and, yes, he played pretty well, nothing crazy outstanding, but man, that guy would take most any short putt, even five footers. I "get it" (afraid he'd miss) but that ain't real golf.

[SouthBayGolfer]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:58 PM, msg said:

I've played with scratch golfers in our local muni tournaments who have ugly swings, old clubs, does not have a membership, plays once a week / 15 to 20 times a year (short season in Canada) and rarely has time to visit the range. And I have buddies who plays 100 games from April to October and cannot even break 80. 

 

Life is so unfair. lol 

That is unfair. Damn. 

[MtlJeff]

I am a 0.4 right now that plays in a few tournaments a year including some of the larger Quebec AMS. I have won points playing in some of the top groups in our interclub tournaments, so i'm a pretty decent am.

 

In the summer i play on average 2.5 rounds a week, maybe 70 rounds a year (we have winters here so that's a lot). I probably also go to the range once a week during the week. My short game i usually work on before or after rounds

 

I have a 4yr old daughter so don't have a ton of time to dedicate to practice. My short game is fairly weak for a person of my index due to this. My tee to green game is very solid because i've spent years hitting balls, and also into sims in the winter.

 

My swing is unorthodox in many ways but very consistent and repetitive. I'm 40yrs old now and not a monster, but i hit it 260-270 off the tee and hit irons proportionally long

[gators78]

You can get to scratch without a lot of work, my handicap was the lowest last year during the pandemic when ranges were closed and courses had limited tee times. Everything was hyper simplified because it had to be. Not changing a thing on my swing because I can't hit balls. Only hit my stock shot. Only aimed for the middle of the green. Standard medium length bunker shots. if it was a tight lie around a green, yup I'm putting it. Avoid doubles at all cost. Work on 5-10 footers.

 

I'm trying to get back to that approach because it kept things very easy. 

[juststeve]

Takes a lot of play and practice to get to scratch or better.  Not nearly as much to maintain that level of play so long as you don't fool around with your swing.

 

Steve

[Pepperturbo]

On 10/9/2021 at 1:32 PM, Krt22 said:

Low single digit and scratch at not the same thing. 

Yes, it's NOT the same, but it not what you think either.

 

Apparently you're unaware of how the PGA sees a 2 index, my low.  Players at that level can sign up for US Open or Sr. Open Championship qualifier because they know, like I know players at that level can swing as much as 10 strokes.  My low is 68, 4 under par 72. 

 

 

[MountainKing]

I was a + back in high school and well into the + range into my 20's when I was playing comparative and could practice constantly.  Now at 41 I'm generally in the 2-3 range and play about 50 rounds between Mach and Oct/Nov.  I don't ever practice, I've been to the range twice this year.  If I spent time practicing I probably could get back down to scratch or +, but I hate practicing and have no real desire to do it since I don't really compete anymore. 

 

I don't do much to change my swing, although this year I've made some changes in the name of saving my back.  When I do make changes they're very small small changes at a time so it's something I can play through with minimal impact.  I also don't make equipment changes often.  This year I changed my irons out after keeping the last set in for nearly a decade, I had my fitter mess a bit with lofts so I could match up distance/spin to my old set.  

 

Like mentioned, it's a lot of work to get to a 0, but as long as you trust  your swing and your equipment, you can be a once a week golfer with a low single digit. 

[milesgiles]

57 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Yes, it's NOT the same, but it not what you think either.

 

Apparently you're unaware of how the PGA sees a 2 index, my low.  Players at that level can sign up for US Open or Sr. Open Championship qualifier because they know, like I know players at that level can swing as much as 10 strokes.  My low is 68, 4 under par 72. 

 

 

 

yes two is good in comparison to the vast majority of golfers. Its still nowhere near scratch.

[milesgiles]

2 hours ago, gators78 said:

You can get to scratch without a lot of work, my handicap was the lowest last year during the pandemic when ranges were closed and courses had limited tee times. Everything was hyper simplified because it had to be. Not changing a thing on my swing because I can't hit balls. Only hit my stock shot. Only aimed for the middle of the green. Standard medium length bunker shots. if it was a tight lie around a green, yup I'm putting it. Avoid doubles at all cost. Work on 5-10 footers.

 

I'm trying to get back to that approach because it kept things very easy. 

 

if you got to scratch without at least a thousand hours of meaningful practise I'd say you are unusually talented. Ive seen it done with less, but not often.

[YMark]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Yes, it's NOT the same, but it not what you think either.

 

Apparently you're unaware of how the PGA sees a 2 index, my low.  Players at that level can sign up for US Open or Sr. Open Championship qualifier because they know, like I know players at that level can swing as much as 10 strokes.  My low is 68, 4 under par 72. 

 

 

 

How many times have you done that 4 times in a row? Signing up for a qualifier is one thing, surviving it is quite another.

[Barfolomew]

I played a lot in a year to get to scratch.... not much range but was able to constantly improve as every time out felt like an extension of the previous playin... till was no big deal to hit the green.  Mental game was key too...

 

Was a great experience wish I could do it again lol

[sharkiesj]

23 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Yes, it's NOT the same, but it not what you think either.

 

Apparently you're unaware of how the PGA sees a 2 index, my low.  Players at that level can sign up for US Open or Sr. Open Championship qualifier because they know, like I know players at that level can swing as much as 10 strokes.  My low is 68, 4 under par 72. 

 

 

Not true at all. To sign up for US Open qualifier’s you have to be a 1.4 or less.  Don’t know what it is for Senior Open. Probably around 3-5 ish.  

[Pepperturbo]

30 minutes ago, sharkiesj said:

Not true at all. To sign up for US Open qualifier’s you have to be a 1.4 or less.  Don’t know what it is for Senior Open. Probably around 3-5 ish.  

1.4 is correct, and it's slightly higher for Senior Open Championship.  The main reason that scratch is NOT required is what I said; depending on the person, they can swing as much as 10 strokes any given day.  Which has been the case with me, when competing or playing for $$$.

[Ty_Webb]

28 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

1.4 is correct, and it's slightly higher for Senior Open Championship.  The main reason that scratch is NOT required is what I said; depending on the person, they can swing as much as 10 strokes any given day.  Which has been the case with me, when competing or playing for $$$.

 

Er - no one off 1.4 or 0.4 for that matter is making it into the US Open. They have it at 1.4 I suspect because they want as many entry fees as possible, but at the same time they can't have total hackers chopping it about while better players are there trying to qualify. 

 

To make it through you need to be probably 4 under the course rating at locals and probably 10-12 under the rating for 36 holes at sectionals. Zero chance any scratch players manage that. 

[Krt22]

 

 

47 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

1.4 is correct, and it's slightly higher for Senior Open Championship.  The main reason that scratch is NOT required is what I said; depending on the person, they can swing as much as 10 strokes any given day.  Which has been the case with me, when competing or playing for $$$.

Pepper, please reread the thread title. You seem to be talking about something completely unrelated. 

[EDT501]

Started as a junior and before I took a 7 year hiatus (picked up clubs at most 9 times in that 7 years) was a playing to a +2.5. Starting back up last spring, I had a few rounds in the 80s at the start, but pretty quickly got back down to low single digits. Took a few months from there to be back to <0.5. Currently back into the + range again (just) after playing about 3 times a month in 2021 and never practicing other than right before or after a round. Likewise, my uncle used to be an elite junior amateur (multiple state championships, some national titles, etc.) and he maybe plays every 18 months now. 30+ years later and he still shoots in the 70s every time.

 

I think the hard part is putting in the work on the front end. You can easily be talking about thousands and thousands of hours of practice/play to get to scratch. On the other hand, I don't think it takes all that much to maintain that level of golf once you get there (baring some kind of injury, etc) so long as you have sufficient golf IQ, which you probably do if you got to scratch in the first place.

[dubbelbogey]

I would posit that those trying a US Open qualifier having only a the bare-minimum circa 1.4 handicap (and not having been significantly lower for sustained periods in the past) are essentially donating their entry fees to the USGA.

 

This would be the equivalent of "dead money" Monday qualifiers or mini-tour guys.

 

 

[getitdaily]

Maintaining it is fairly easy. Getting it is the hard part. I've maintained a +1 to +2 all year with 1 range session per week or 1 time playing...basically touch the clubs once a week. 

 

But I'm 43 and have been playing 30 years. I've been a sub 5 handicap since I was about 15.

[bazinky]

Not necessarily disagreeing with the previous posts in this thread, but I think you are getting a pretty biased sample here. Very few people can play to scratch without multiple rounds and practice sessions during the week. Driving distance and previous peak playing level are the biggest factors that will determine how easy it is to maintain a scratch index on limited play. Every guy that I know that falls into that category was well into plus handicap territory at some point, and most of them at least played some form of high-level am golf. The majority of those guys are also significantly longer than your average low handicap golfer, and the ones that weren't were all solid pluses.

 

That said, it is interesting that certain guys seem to have a much bigger drop-off than other golfers of a similar handicap range. However, I don't know ANY golfers that were barely scratch when they were playing a lot and still were able to maintain that level when life got busy.

 

 

 

 

[gators78]

On 10/11/2021 at 3:43 PM, milesgiles said:

 

if you got to scratch without at least a thousand hours of meaningful practise I'd say you are unusually talented. Ive seen it done with less, but not often.

 

I was 3-6 handicap since college depending on the work schedules (played in HS and college so yes there is an underlying ability), but I did hit my lowest handicap in 2020 and early 2021.  

 

Getting to scratch is a different question...maintaining it was what I was answering.