US Open moving towards a rota system.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

Good point, but I'm pretty sure the PGA of America purchased Valhalla, so there's no way the USGA will ever go there. I think there's a good chance that Southern Hills and Oak Hill host a US Open in the future. Both courses are hosting a US AM in the near future.

The USGA F'd up Chambers Bay by killing the greens. Tee-to-green I actually thought it was a great set up but the greens were horrendous. The only other complaint I had about CB was they played 18 as a par 4 on Friday. I think it plays better as a par 5. The greens are now Poa Annua instead of fescue. I'd love to see a PGA Championship return to Chambers Bay. I think the PGA Of America would do a really good job with Chambers Bay. They do a really good job at courses that have never hosted a major before. Harding Park was a great set up because it was an exciting tournament and you didn't hear a single peep about the course.

I wish I could share your confidence that the US Open would come back to Oak Hill.  It hasn't been there since 1989 and no chance of it being there through 2027... 38 years!  At least Oak Hill gets a periodic PGA Championship, but I fear that could be in jeopardy given the move to May.  

 

Too bad because the course is an outstanding Donald Ross challenge and a great venue for fans.  They've invested a ton making it longer and most recently rebuilt every green (I think).  Also the region is rich with avid golfers and golf history and even draws from south western Ontario CA.  It's the home of Walter Hagen and Jeff Sluman. Robert Trent Jones senior's first job as a golf pro was in the area and he completed his first golf course design in the area.  Lots of golf history, avid fans but seemingly not a lot of love from the USGA. 

 

A rota excludes the so many great courses across the USA and...

 

[tiderider]

the usga had to work lacc for a number of years to get them to agree to host ... doubt they will want to be an anchor for the usga ... their course will be restricted play for half a year, at best ... 

 

i would think oak hill would be a prime target for the usga ... midwestern site with history ... big, brawny course ... 

 

agree with phil ... would love to see the pga at chambers ... 

Edited October 14, 2021 by tiderider

[stinger_gc]

2 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I wish I could share your confidence that the US Open would come back to Oak Hill.  It hasn't been there since 1989 and no chance of it being there through 2027... 38 years!  At least Oak Hill gets a periodic PGA Championship, but I fear that could be in jeopardy given the move to May.  

 

Too bad because the course is an outstanding Donald Ross challenge and a great venue for fans.  They've invested a ton making it longer and most recently rebuilt every green (I think).  Also the region is rich with avid golfers and golf history and even draws from south western Ontario CA.  It's the home of Walter Hagen and Jeff Sluman. Robert Trent Jones senior's first job as a golf pro was in the area and he completed his first golf course design in the area.  Lots of golf history, avid fans but seemingly not a lot of love from the USGA. 

 

A rota excludes the so many great courses across the USA and...

 

Ok so I gotta clarify somethings. So I was thinking the USGA should do something more along the lines of maybe like a regional rota

 

It'd be something like the following

Pacific Coast: Pebble, Olympic, LACC, Chambers Bay

Northeast: Oakmont, Merion, Bethpage, Winged Foot, Shinnecock 

Midwest: Erin Hills, Hazeltine, Oakland Hills, Whistling Straits

South: Pinehurst, Southern Hills and maybe Colonial

 

To me it seems like the USGA's been sticking to California Courses or the North East. In fact every US Open from 2018-2023 has been in the North East or California.  Since 2000 they've had 15 US Opens in CA or the North East. It'd be nice to see some variety for a change. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

22 minutes ago, tiderider said:

the usga had to work lacc for a number of years to get them to agree to host ... doubt they will want to be an anchor for the usga ... their course will be restricted play for half a year, at best ... 

 

i would think oak hill would be a prime target for the usga ... midwestern site with history ... big, brawny course ... 

 

agree with phil ... would love to see the pga at chambers ... 

Just for clarification, Oak Hill is outside of Rochester NY in far Western NY state. Not quite mid-west but definitely more like the mid-west than NYC region 🙂

[clp34vmp]

All of the LA courses mentioned here are amazing, but LACC is without a doubt the most exclusive of the bunch. I have no idea if their current entrance fee is $25K, but if it is that's only because the money is not really of any importance there. Hollywood types need not bother applying, although Ronald Reagan did manage to get in. That was probably after he had moved on from his "Hollywood phase".

 

As far as the rota itself, I think, at least according to the USGA, that one main driver is conversations they've had with the players themselves. The players have apparently told the USGA that they want to see the Open contested on the great courses that have been significant mainstays in the history of the game here in the US. I can understand that. I do like to see the occasional outliers though. I agree Chambers Bay could have actually been great if handled properly. Even a course like the Country Club in Boston, on tap for next year, probably wouldn't see an Open again. To me that's a huge bummer. That's a great venue (the first Open I ever attended was there in '88), and that and many other great ones like it would be left behind in this new strategy.

[MountainKing]

I would like to see the PGA Championship on some sort of rotation showcasing exclusive country clubs around the country.  The US Open, being an open championship, I always thought should be trying to showcase the best public golf in America.  I know it's an unrealistic dream, most courses just don't have the space/amenities to hold a pro event, let alone a major. 

[stinger_gc]

3 minutes ago, clp34vmp said:

All of the LA courses mentioned here are amazing, but LACC is without a doubt the most exclusive of the bunch. I have no idea if their current entrance fee is $25K, but if it is that's only because the money is not really of any importance there. Hollywood types need not bother applying, although Ronald Reagan did manage to get in. That was probably after he had moved on from his "Hollywood phase".

 

As far as the rota itself, I think, at least according to the USGA, that one main driver is conversations they've had with the players themselves. The players have apparently told the USGA that they want to see the Open contested on the great courses that have been significant mainstays in the history of the game here in the US. I can understand that. I do like to see the occasional outliers though. I agree Chambers Bay could have actually been great if handled properly. Even a course like the Country Club in Boston, on tap for next year, probably wouldn't see an Open again. To me that's a huge bummer. That's a great venue (the first Open I ever attended was there in '88), and that and many other great ones like it would be left behind in this new strategy.

I hope Country Club hosts a good US Open in 2022. Seems like a great course and would be nice to see Boston some golf tournaments again.

[tiderider]

34 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Just for clarification, Oak Hill is outside of Rochester NY in far Western NY state. Not quite mid-west but definitely more like the mid-west than NYC region 🙂

ah, i'm thinking of oakland hills, then ... 

[Murphy76]

 

This could be a good move.

 

Maybe they will also finally move the Masters away from Agusta.  

 

What a dump of a venue.

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Murphy76

[tiderider]

44 minutes ago, Murphy76 said:

 

This could be a good move.

 

Maybe they will also finally move the Masters away from Agusta.  

 

What a dump of a venue.

 

i don't think the city's that bad ... 

[Murphy76]

19 minutes ago, tiderider said:

i don't think the city's that bad ... 

 

I was referring to the course.  Couldn't they maintain it a little better????  

 

What an ugly dirt-track

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, MountainKing said:

I would like to see the PGA Championship on some sort of rotation showcasing exclusive country clubs around the country.  The US Open, being an open championship, I always thought should be trying to showcase the best public golf in America.  I know it's an unrealistic dream, most courses just don't have the space/amenities to hold a pro event, let alone a major. 

The MOST exclusive have little to no desire to host an Open and let the riffraff tromp around and soil their grounds

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

The MOST exclusive have little to no desire to host an Open and let the riffraff tromp around and soil their grounds

 

Why is it that so few people seem to understand that if the members of a course don't want to deal with what comes along with hosting an event, the discussion ends there?  Amazing how people are so quick to tell others what to do with their property.

[MountainKing]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

The MOST exclusive have little to no desire to host an Open and let the riffraff tromp around and soil their grounds

 

I'm almost certain that I stated this was unrealistic.  Reading isn't that hard. 

[Snarkesor]

23 hours ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

LACC isn't that exclusive. They've got 800 members and its $25,000. Most of the LA "elite" play at Bel Air, Riviera, or at Sherwood down in Thousand Oaks.

Also you're exactly right on subsidizing the maintenance for the clubs. The R&A follows a similar model and that way they don't need to spend an absurd amount of time getting their venues ready.  The R&A has only announced up to 2025 for their future venues as opposed to the USGA who's already announced the venues for 2049 and 2050. 

I think another reason the USGA is doing this whole anchor site thing because of COVID. They announced Pinehurst in September last year in the heart of the pandemic and I think the plan was essentially if some unforeseen circumstances come up before the tournament. They should be able to move to an anchor site with no/minimal delay as opposed to pushing back the tournament 3 months.

LOL I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. The initiation fees at LACC (or ANGC for that matter are a red herring. Unless you are from an old line WASP Los Angeles family you ain't getting in. Riviera and Bel Air are by comparison open to anyone with the dough to join.

[stinger_gc]

1 hour ago, Snarkesor said:

LOL I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. The initiation fees at LACC (or ANGC for that matter are a red herring. Unless you are from an old line WASP Los Angeles family you ain't getting in. Riviera and Bel Air are by comparison open to anyone with the dough to join.

I might be wrong haha. I honestly just looked it up online.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, MountainKing said:

 

I'm almost certain that I stated this was unrealistic.  Reading isn't that hard. 

You based it on space and amenities…..I just added a big reason.  
 

 

Didn’t argue with you at all, read mine again.😏

[Snarkesor]

2 hours ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

I might be wrong haha. I honestly just looked it up online.

Sorry, if I was a bit harsh. “Down in Thousand Oaks” was a bit of a tell, considering that’s “up” in the Valley. 🤪

[JD3]

no more Erin Hills, what a disaster. any records set there should be asterisked

[smashdn]

On 10/14/2021 at 6:28 AM, Ghostwedge said:

NO, this freezes out to many other great courses around the country. If its just about making as much money as possible then do it. Meanwhile screw over the flyover section of the country (Southern Hills, Bellerive, Vallaha, etc.)

H&ll, they owe the Pacific NW another US Open, Chambers Bay was a disaster only because the USGA insisted on "natural" conditions, that's a great course and venue otherwise. The "rota" is stuffy old elitist British nonsense.

 

USGA essentially had a rotation anyway.  This just semi-formalizes it and creates a reason they can support the clubs with maintenance.  I suspect it also includes some form of agreements that the USGA hosts other "less premier" championships at those sites.  

 

Regarding the part of your quote I bolded above, those courses are "PGA Championship" courses.  PGA of A also has an unofficial rota.  Those courses you listed seem to fit their mold.  Brawny, mid-western courses or blue-collar vibe type places..

 

Regarding what I underlined, I agree.  I wouldn't have a problem with them going back to chambers bay.  I thought the course provided a nice test and showed well on TV (despite Fox's coverage).  I do get that it is not the best from an on-site spectator's standpoint but that is several places down the list of concerns in my book as providing a proper test and the tv broadcast are much higher concerns for me.

 

Like I said initially, the rota stuff was happening anyway.  Both the PGA 'ship and US Open had them unofficially.  Most of us here could have rattled off 15 courses and which tournament they would host for the next ten years  and probably been about 80% accurate.

 

If the USGA injects a different, deserving venue about every third year outside of their group I think that is about right.

[ChrisL52188]

In a perfect golf world, the US Open would be at Pine Valley Golf Club. But it won't ever happen. And for good reason. 

 

But there's one place a US Open should go to... Bandon Dunes. That would be just awesome. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by ChrisL52188

[stinger_gc]

12 hours ago, Snarkesor said:

Sorry, if I was a bit harsh. “Down in Thousand Oaks” was a bit of a tell, considering that’s “up” in the Valley. 🤪

That's down for me since I live in MN 🤣

[stinger_gc]

https://golf.com/news/usga-pebble-beach-anchor-site-future-majors/

 

 

Not surprising at all. I expect Winged Foot to be named next. I am curious to see if they'll make any changes to Pebble ahead of the 2027 tournament. -13 won last time and 31 players finished under-par which is something the USGA probably hated.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, KizIsTheMan said:

https://golf.com/news/usga-pebble-beach-anchor-site-future-majors/

 

 

Not surprising at all. I expect Winged Foot to be named next. I am curious to see if they'll make any changes to Pebble ahead of the 2027 tournament. -13 won last time and 31 players finished under-par which is something the USGA probably hated.

I don’t think the under par scores bother them as much as in the past.  Give them firm and fast conditions and a good test and it’s good to go.  

[3whacker]

On 10/14/2021 at 10:06 AM, KizIsTheMan said:

Ok so I gotta clarify somethings. So I was thinking the USGA should do something more along the lines of maybe like a regional rota

 

It'd be something like the following

Pacific Coast: Pebble, Olympic, LACC, Chambers Bay

Northeast: Oakmont, Merion, Bethpage, Winged Foot, Shinnecock 

Midwest: Erin Hills, Hazeltine, Oakland Hills, Whistling Straits

South: Pinehurst, Southern Hills and maybe Colonial

 

To me it seems like the USGA's been sticking to California Courses or the North East. In fact every US Open from 2018-2023 has been in the North East or California.  Since 2000 they've had 15 US Opens in CA or the North East. It'd be nice to see some variety for a change. 

there are at least two courses in Calif. that could be on the list but I doubt one because of who owns it and that is Trump National in Palos Verdes ( Pete Dye design 7200 + par 71), the others could be the Bayonet course @ Fort Ord, and Harding Park in San Fran...LACC is a fine course but I think the pros would eat it up and it has no room for expansion..

[stinger_gc]

12 hours ago, Shilgy said:

I don’t think the under par scores bother them as much as in the past.  Give them firm and fast conditions and a good test and it’s good to go.  

Idk I guess I'm a little biased as well because the 2019 US Open kinda sucked and I personally think regular tour stops should not be hosting majors at the pace Pebble is. Kinda ridiculous that in 2037 we'll get to see both Charlie Woods hoist the US Open trophy and the ghost of Bill Murray hit 5 balls into the pacific ocean on 18 at the same place within 4.5 months of each other

[stinger_gc]

8 hours ago, 3whacker said:

there are at least two courses in Calif. that could be on the list but I doubt one because of who owns it and that is Trump National in Palos Verdes ( Pete Dye design 7200 + par 71), the others could be the Bayonet course @ Fort Ord, and Harding Park in San Fran...LACC is a fine course but I think the pros would eat it up and it has no room for expansion..

Harding Park would be pretty cool! I'd personally love to see what the USGA would do with Kiawah Island. They'd probably convert some of the par 5s to par 4s (the USGA loves par 70s) and make the greens roll stupid fast. If it blows like it did in May the winning score won't even sniff even.

[pcmancini]

I for one would very much enjoy a USGA event at Pine Valley.  I think they had the Walker Cup there some time ago but it is a shame we fans cannot enjoy watching the best play this course.

 

Paul

[Danielson]

27 minutes ago, pcmancini said:

I for one would very much enjoy a USGA event at Pine Valley.  I think they had the Walker Cup there some time ago but it is a shame we fans cannot enjoy watching the best play this course.

 

Paul

 

The Pine Valley reputation is that their members are actual golfers. They don't want any days where they can't get out and play, unlike some of the other high dollar clubs where a membership is more for the prestige than the golf course.

[Fairway14]

38 minutes ago, pcmancini said:

I for one would very much enjoy a USGA event at Pine Valley.  I think they had the Walker Cup there some time ago but it is a shame we fans cannot enjoy watching the best play this course.

 

Paul