Rory's major drought

[BlackDiamondPar5]

23 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

Last time I checked this is a GOLF WRX web forum not BUTTERFLY WRX. 

 

Do you have a 1:1 coaching example that pertains to golf (specifically, a person that never achieved even so much as winning by cheating at a company scramble tourney that went on to personally coach a high-ranked major winner in professional golf)?

 

 

 

Well the quotes to which I was responding said "Pro Sports"--- so it didn't look limited to golf.

 

I don't know how we'd know if it was 1:1 vs an entourage.  But back in the Nicklaus & Palmer days I doubt they had entourages of coaches.  I honestly don't know when the evolution happened for making coaching entourages the norm but I wonder if Phil and Tiger had more than 1 coach back in the mid-late 90's?

 

Bubba Watson and Lee Trevino are two examples of several with no coaches, so I'd call that 1:1 with themselves. 

Butch Harmon--- Okay he won once on the PGA Tour and never made a cut at the majors. But is arguably the one of the best golf coaches of all time.   

 

Then there's Sean Foley... ugh... I'm making myself ill. 🙂 

 

But you don't need to be successful at the highest level of a game to be an outstanding coach that can mint winners. 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[bladehunter]

24 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

Last time I checked this is a GOLF WRX web forum not BUTTERFLY WRX. 

 

Do you have a 1:1 coaching example that pertains to golf (specifically, a person that never achieved even so much as winning by cheating at a company scramble tourney that went on to personally coach a high-ranked major winner in professional golf)?

 

 

 

Foley ?  
 

( kidding ). He probably has won some scrambles.  With the ways in which he won still being debated ! 

[Ferguson]

56 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Well the quotes to which I was responding said "Pro Sports"--- so it didn't look limited to golf.

 

I don't know how we'd know if it was 1:1 vs an entourage.  But back in the Nicklaus & Palmer days I doubt they had entourages of coaches.  I honestly don't know when the evolution happened for making coaching entourages the norm but I wonder if Phil and Tiger had more than 1 coach back in the mid-late 90's?

 

Bubba Watson and Lee Trevino are two examples of several with no coaches, so I'd call that 1:1 with themselves. 

Butch Harmon--- Okay he won once on the PGA Tour and never made a cut at the majors. But is arguably the one of the best golf coaches of all time.   

 

Then there's Sean Foley... ugh... I'm making myself ill. 🙂 

 

But you don't need to be successful at the highest level of a game to be an outstanding coach that can mint winners. 

 

 

52 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Foley ?  
 

( kidding ). He probably has won some scrambles.  With the ways in which he won still being debated ! 

 

I know.  I would rather $hit in my hands and clap than talk about Foley. 

 

However, for reference, Foley played varsity golf for Tennessee State or Tennessee A&I.  

 

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

3 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

I know.  I would rather $hit in my hands and clap than talk about Foley. 

 

However, for reference, Foley played varsity golf for Tennessee State or Tennessee A&I.  

 

 

^^^^ okay that's new one on me and I love it.  I can't wait to use it (not actually do it) 🤣

[bladehunter]

4 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

I know.  I would rather $hit in my hands and clap than talk about Foley. 

 

However, for reference, Foley played varsity golf for Tennessee State or Tennessee A&I.  

 

 

Lol.   We’ve drawn the real Ferguson out !  I knew I liked you.  And I’ll add a huge amen to that. I threw up in my mouth a little as I typed his name ! 

[bladehunter]

I’m still laughing.   Soooo much wrong with that visual.  I mean. In your hands ?   Why not on the ground ?  But I get it.  Can’t get the second bad when you clap without it.  But wait.  What about the collateral damage of the clap ?   I mean there must be a 3/4 feet blast radius. Right? Do you warn others ?  Is there an alarm?  Do you wear goggles ?   Close eyes and mouth ? Was it a high fiber day ? Or more fruit ?   Soo many questions.  🤪

Edited October 21, 2021 by bladehunter

[golfer929]

15 hours ago, cdnglf said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parlay_(gambling)

You must have been voted most clever in high school. I might not have hit all 3, but ill take 2 out of 3 so far every day of the week. I think Rory has maybe a 3-4 year window to really win one more and after that, his chances drop off even more

[Go Cougs]

I've been spellbound by the beauty of Rory's swing over the years, but I think its time to face the fact that he's just not as good as we thought he was.

[LBB]

The fields are way deeper today then they were in the 80's, and they are still a lot deeper than they were 10 years ago when Rory came onto the scene. 

 

Guys who come onto the tour in their early 20's are coming ready not just to contend, but to win.  I don't see that slowing down over the next 5-10 years either, especially with the continued growth of the game worldwide and how high the level of competition is just below the PGA Tour.

 

There are a lot of really good/young golfers right now that might never win a major, or if they have already, go on a major drought.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oikos1]

8 hours ago, Cincy_Ken said:

Have I missed Rory missing extensive time due to injury?  Maybe this would be a more appropriate discussion if that happened.

 

Golf is more competitive than ever before.  Fitness may be that extra .5% that makes the difference.  I'm similar size to Rory and lift regularly; by no means am I either a professional athlete or meathead and that weight is something that is very reasonable for good controlled exercise without overly stressing yourself.   What we know of Tiger's obsessive personality I do think led to overdoing some of the off the course stuff but I see zero evidence of that in Rory.

Seven year Major drought.

[oikos1]

8 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

I agree that pro golfers don’t need to squat heavy.

 

But disagree when you say, 

 

“He and Tiger may have very well shortened and/or disrupted the time span of success in their careers due to excessive training.”

 

Where do you see any injuries or shortening of Rory’s career? He seems 100% healthy and fit. He hurt his ankle playing soccer.

 

And Tiger? Where do you see that strength training contributed to injuries? 
His knee was from golf and running, maybe dopey seals. His back, I don’t see where you get his back was injured by lifting some weights. I’ve never even seen where TW was even squatting or deadlifting.

 

 

All you need to do is look at the world and you can see that the health risks, bad backs, bad joints, even cardio vascular issues, are far more the result of sedentary lifestyles than “excessive training”

Seven year Major drought.  There's absolutely no way to quantify this, but it is a fact that he hasn't won a major in seven years.

 

I'm not saying fitness isn't important.  Some have suggested "over doing it", and I think there may be something to that.  That's all.

[cdnglf]

4 hours ago, golfer929 said:

You must have been voted most clever in high school. I might not have hit all 3, but ill take 2 out of 3 so far every day of the week. I think Rory has maybe a 3-4 year window to really win one more and after that, his chances drop off even more

 

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, oikos1 said:

Seven year Major drought.  There's absolutely no way to quantify this, but it is a fact that he hasn't won a major in seven years.

 

I'm not saying fitness isn't important.  Some have suggested "over doing it", and I think there may be something to that.  That's all.

 

It’s possible. I’ve more wondered about how “heavy” strength training affects “touch” on putting and finesse shots. But you see TW and Bryson and BK, all work out a lot, lift, and are excellent putters.

 

BK I think lifts heavy right before a round. 
 

Rory has only got longer and I don’t ever recall him suffering on driving/approach ball striking as a symptom on overtraining. Or sustaining an injury and being sidelined besides his “footy” disaster and that rib thing. But I think they said that was somehow brought on from usage and repetition in his golf swing.

 

His drought in wins and majors is a direct result of poor wedge game and putting. I think it’s more reasonable that it’s his ability and technique that have faltered than fitness impacting them. And his focus and determination definitely seem less prominent. 

 

Rory was in his twenties all decade. His fitness, basically some strength training and cardio, is the type of stuff a guy in his 40s or 50s can do in his spare time. Heck, there’s guys 60s and 70s with much more rigorous fitness. Triathletes, guys who cycle 30, 40 miles a day. 
 

Speaking of cycling, I think Camilllo Villegas got crazy into cycling, like 40-70 mile rides a day. Now that’s going to impact your golf game I think. 

[stingerfade]

On 10/19/2021 at 10:05 PM, ShowMe said:

He tried to bulk up and be like his hero, Tiger.  Hasn't been the same since.

Hmmm that’s when he got even better but keep thinking that 

[stingerfade]

On 10/20/2021 at 12:12 PM, Ferguson said:

 

 

No one mentioned Tiger, except you. 

 

Just pointing out the fallacy in your thinking that to teach you have to be a winner.

[ChipStrokes]

12 hours ago, oikos1 said:

So, to the resident fitness experts, did Rory overdo his squat weight or not?  It has to be one or the other.

no. there’s no such thing as a frame:squat weight ratio.

 

i don’t know what everyone in here stating that he squatted too much weight “for his frame” is talking about. 

 

there are guys rory’s size squatting over 500lbs safely and guys 100lbs heavier than him who can’t squat their bodyweight. 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by ChipStrokes

[stingerfade]

On 10/20/2021 at 2:12 PM, ShowMe said:

 

Sure, but he weighed what...a buck fifty at the time?  Still way too much for his tiny frame.

Not even close. I can do 350 and I’m 5’ 7” 180 

[stingerfade]

12 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Im no expert, but maybe the guys in the know can comment.

 

Here he is doing 220 kg, 265 lbs with the bar.

 

From what I see, form is good but you can notice, with each rep, more of a “nod” forward his head, just slight lean as he reaches to push the rep. Not ideal but seems to have it pretty well in hand.

 

 

That’s only 145 kg with the bar 

[stingerfade]

7 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I’m still laughing.   Soooo much wrong with that visual.  I mean. In your hands ?   Why not on the ground ?  But I get it.  Can’t get the second bad when you clap without it.  But wait.  What about the collateral damage of the clap ?   I mean there must be a 3/4 feet blast radius. Right? Do you warn others ?  Is there an alarm?  Do you wear goggles ?   Close eyes and mouth ? Was it a high fiber day ? Or more fruit ?   Soo many questions.  🤪

What’s the strokes gained from a proper centering of your blast radius to your target? 

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, stingerfade said:

That’s only 145 kg with the bar 

 

Lol, I meant 120 kg (not 220 kg) in plates . It’s 265 pounds with the bar. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by bscinstnct

[BlackDiamondPar5]

3 minutes ago, stingerfade said:

That’s only 145 kg with the bar 

 

[stingerfade]

1 minute ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Lol, I meant 120 kg in plates . It’s 265 pounds with the bar. 

But it’s only 100 kg in plates….haha 

 

but it is 265 total lol

[stingerfade]

1 minute ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

 

Mendelbaum!!!

[sg91]

15 hours ago, oikos1 said:

Appreciate the detail and in no way am I questioning the value of squats or exercise in general.  And yes, there is a "risk" in any athletic activity.  The debate, or question, appeared to be that Rory did, or did not, squat too much weight for his frame/size.

 

So, to the resident fitness experts, did Rory overdo his squat weight or not?  It has to be one or the other.

No, not even close. There is no such thing as squatting too much for your frame or size. There is a point where chasing more numbers on the bar takes away from training things that may be more important, but that point isn't being able to squat 120kg for a set of 3-5 reps. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by sg91

[bladehunter]

7 hours ago, stingerfade said:

What’s the strokes gained from a proper centering of your blast radius to your target? 

😅has to be + a full stroke to the field. I mean not many people are accomplishing that one.  

[Ferguson]

8 hours ago, stingerfade said:

Just pointing out the fallacy in your thinking that to teach you have to be a winner.

 

Putting prowess notwithstanding, Faxon is a loser when viewed by his inability to achieve top 200 status.  Furthermore, my argument wasn't based in teaching alone.  The thread's topic is Rory not winning majors.   I contended that Rory would sniff more majors if he was rubbing elbows with the right people, not the right putting lesson guy. 

[Big GG]

18 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

The results from "pro sports coaches", that you apparently hold in the highest regard, involved with team sports cannot be extrapolated to an individual achievement sport such as golf.  These "high level pro sports coaches" you speak of are always supported by a entourage of assistant coaches. The expertise is therefore shared and not held by a single coach.  This is vastly different with 1:1 golf coaching.   

 

 

Who other that you said I held other coaches in the highest regard. I just pointed out the obvious. Something you clearly can't see. Golf is the same these days. Most elite players have swing coaches. Short game coaches, Mental coaches, Putting coaches. 

[stingerfade]

49 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

Putting prowess notwithstanding, Faxon is a loser when viewed by his inability to achieve top 200 status.  Furthermore, my argument wasn't based in teaching alone.  The thread's topic is Rory not winning majors.   I contended that Rory would sniff more majors if he was rubbing elbows with the right people, not the right putting lesson guy. 

Funny when people just can’t admit they’re wrong. 
 

the thread is asking why he hasn’t won majors recently, one of the possibilities is his putting is holding him back so he goes to a coach who you just said has prowess putting but no, that can’t help because he’s not a “winner”. How is not learning from the best at a particular skill not going to help? 

[JohnnyCashForever]

Just because someone has Tiger-level or Jack-level natural ability doesn't necessarily mean he also has their mental fortitude or fire in the belly.  IMO, finding the right coach or mentor can't fix that.  It has to come from within.

 

From afar, it always appeared to me that Tiger had coaches who augmented and helped him towards his own vision of what he was and could be.  Conversely, Rory appears to be searching for coaches to give him the solution to a question only he can answer.    

 

 

[bscinstnct]

44 minutes ago, JohnnyCashForever said:

Just because someone has Tiger-level or Jack-level natural ability doesn't necessarily mean he also has their mental fortitude or fire in the belly.  IMO, finding the right coach or mentor can't fix that.  It has to come from within.

 

From afar, it always appeared to me that Tiger had coaches who augmented and helped him towards his own vision of what he was and could be.  Conversely, Rory appears to be searching for coaches to give him the solution to a question only he can answer.    

 

 

 

JCF tell Rory like