Rory's major drought

[golfer929]

On 10/19/2021 at 10:40 PM, cdnglf said:

 

I don't understand? Not sure where I moved the goalpost at all in this one?

[oikos1]

49 minutes ago, ShowMe said:

 

If it improves bone density and numerous other things, then what are the major risks?  Those sound like good things.

Exactly.  I'm not sure what the point was.  Lift heavy because it's good for numerous things but you also might blow a knee or a tendon or back or what?

[sg91]

9 hours ago, ShowMe said:

 

Sure, but he weighed what...a buck fifty at the time?  Still way too much for his tiny frame.

No, not even in the slightest. He's still under 2xBW

[cdnglf]

1 hour ago, golfer929 said:

I don't understand? Not sure where I moved the goalpost at all in this one?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parlay_(gambling)

[Tasals]

4 hours ago, ShowMe said:

 

If it improves bone density and numerous other things, then what are the major risks?  Those sound like good things.

 

If you dont have your form right, and even if you do, you can injure your back pretty badly, if you dont know how to bail you can hurt yourself/pass out you can find super cuts of it on youtube from squats and heavy deadlifts. Knee injuries can occur. So you need to take a lot of precaution, a belt, proper technique, learning how to do it properly. Its a great exercise. In university, a guy on my team tweaked his back on a heavy warm up set. Guy was out for a month.

 

If you want to see some easy distance increases squatting is a pretty good way to do it, strengthens most muscle groups. Also recommend a lot of women to get into squatting for the bone density benefits helps against osteoporosis. But there is a major difference between doing some lighter reps for the benefits, and pushing 300lbs.

[milesgiles]

6 hours ago, ShowMe said:

 

If it improves bone density and numerous other things, then what are the major risks?  Those sound like good things.

 

it is a great exercise, probably the best for golf (if youre only going to do one)

 

but his build is not ideal for it. Long legs short torso, very small joints means go heavy at your peril. Im similar, I could rep 3 plates but above that it felt like an injury waiting to happen, too much stress on delicate tissue structures. 

[Ferguson]

17 hours ago, Big GG said:

Big Deal. Pro sports is filled with coaches that never won a championship as a player. The fact Brad Faxon didn't live up to expectations means nothing on the coaching side of things.

 

Faxon doesn't even touch the top 200 players of all time.  If Rory wants to win more he needs to stop hanging with guys like Faxon and hang with winners.  For pete's sake Jordan would be a stronger influence from a "driven to win" point of view.  Fax is a stump. 

 

 

https://www.thealltimegreatestgolfers.com/

 

[Big GG]

52 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

Faxon doesn't even touch the top 200 players of all time.  If Rory wants to win more he needs to stop hanging with guys like Faxon and hang with winners.  For pete's sake Jordan would be a stronger influence from a "driven to win" point of view.  Fax is a stump. 

 

 

https://www.thealltimegreatestgolfers.com/

 

Still means nothing. There are also coaches at the highest level of pro sports that won championships that never reached the highest levels of play in the sport they coach.

[stinger_gc]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Holy!

 

 

Charlie Woods will defeat Bryson in a playoff at the 2029 Masters 10 years after hugging his father behind the 18th green.  81-year old Mike Cowan (Fluff) will be lugging Charlies bag down the lush fairways of Augusta. Tiger (who finished t21) greets Charlie in the exact spot they hugged 10 years ago.

A senile Jim Nantz's screams "Like father like son" after Charlie holes a 16 foot birdie putt on the first playoff hole.

[dlygrisse]

Faxon has marital problems. 

2 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

Faxon doesn't even touch the top 200 players of all time.  If Rory wants to win more he needs to stop hanging with guys like Faxon and hang with winners.  For pete's sake Jordan would be a stronger influence from a "driven to win" point of view.  Fax is a stump. 

 

 

https://www.thealltimegreatestgolfers.com/

 

 

[bscinstnct]

9 hours ago, oikos1 said:

Exactly.  I'm not sure what the point was.  Lift heavy because it's good for numerous things but you also might blow a knee or a tendon or back or what?

 

Lol, well when you put it like that ; )

 

Theres heavy and there’s HEAVY.

 

Anybody can squat heavy. To me, it just means you are working in a rep range where you can only do 5-15 reps before your at close to failure. You’ll progress to heavier weight, get stronger, and reap the benefits of the squat which are numerous. If your form is tight, there is no real injury risk.

 

The injury issue comes up with going HEAVY on squats for a few reasons. 
The biggest being form breaking down when guys push extra reps into failure. There’s a line between making your last rep at a point where you maintain strict form. And where you lose form chasing an extra rep….

 

Your knees wobble. You increase the bend in your back. Any form breakdown can immediately place huge stress awkwardly on a supporting back or leg muscle, or on your spine or joints themselves. 
 

Plus guys squat Heavy with improper form from the get go or don’t warm up. 
 

Also, squatting, while it’s a “full body” exercise, it’s heavily dominant on the quads. Ideally, you need to do complimentary work on you hams/posterior chain with exercises that target them directly. Or as you squat heavier, you don’t have the best platform to avoid injury. 
 

But the biggest thing is just staying safe on form. Do that and most people won’t even get near a weight that will injure them. 
 

For example, many people who never squatted, might have trouble simply doing 3 sets of 15 reps of legit form squats…with nothing but their bodyweight. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by bscinstnct

[dlygrisse]

One may fall in his lap someday, but if he is going to go on another run he will need to refocus mentally.  Jack and Tiger had that ability, not sure about Rory.  
 

none of his majors were won on super fast greens either.  

[oikos1]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Lol, well when you put it like that ; )

 

Theres heavy and there’s HEAVY.

 

Anybody can squat heavy. To me, it just means you are working in a rep range where you can only do 5-15 reps before your at close to failure. You’ll progress to heavier weight, get stronger, and reap the benefits of the squat which are numerous. If your form is tight, there is no real injury risk.

 

The injury issue comes up with going HEAVY on squats for a few reasons. 
The biggest being form breaking down when guys push extra reps into failure. There’s a line between making your last rep at a point where you maintain strict form. And where you lose form chasing an extra rep….

 

Your knees wobble. You increase the bend in your back. Any form breakdown can immediately place huge stress awkwardly on a supporting back or leg muscle, or on your spine or joints themselves. 
 

Plus guys squat Heavy with improper form from the get go or don’t warm up. 
 

Also, squatting, while it’s a “full body” exercise, it’s heavily dominant on the quads. Ideally, you need to do complimentary work on you hams/posterior chain with exercises that target them directly. Or as you squat heavier, you don’t have the best platform to avoid injury. 
 

But the biggest thing is just staying safe on form. Do that and most people won’t even get near a weight that will injure them. 
 

For example, many people who never squatted, might have trouble simply doing 3 sets of 15 reps of legit form squats…with nothing but their bodyweight. 

Appreciate the detail and in no way am I questioning the value of squats or exercise in general.  And yes, there is a "risk" in any athletic activity.  The debate, or question, appeared to be that Rory did, or did not, squat too much weight for his frame/size.

 

So, to the resident fitness experts, did Rory overdo his squat weight or not?  It has to be one or the other.

[bscinstnct]

17 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Appreciate the detail and in no way am I questioning the value of squats or exercise in general.  And yes, there is a "risk" in any athletic activity.  The debate, or question, appeared to be that Rory did, or did not, squat too much weight for his frame/size.

 

So, to the resident fitness experts, did Rory overdo his squat weight or not?  It has to be one or the other.

 

Im no expert, but maybe the guys in the know can comment.

 

Here he is doing 220 kg, 265 lbs with the bar.

 

From what I see, form is good but you can notice, with each rep, more of a “nod” forward his head, just slight lean as he reaches to push the rep. Not ideal but seems to have it pretty well in hand.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by bscinstnct

[ColinKelvin]

On 10/20/2021 at 2:45 PM, PHILsThemannnn said:

I think 2022-25 is his window to go on another run. The next 2 Open Championship venues are perfect for him (St. Andrews and Liverpool), in 2024 the PGA is at Valhalla and in 2025 it's at Quail Hollow (2 courses he's won on). I don't know if Rory will ever win a green jacket. He always has a round where he blows up at Augusta and shoots himself out of the tournament. I think it was 2016 when he shot -4 for 3 rounds but blew up on Saturday with 76 or 77. Going back to 2014, Rory has shot like 24 rounds under par at Augusta which is crazy.  

 Yeah, he won at liverpool before, but they are only perfect for him if it's sunny and calm (in which case they are also perfect for a lot of other top players).  If the wind blows then he won't win, and if it's windy and rainy he'll be lucky to make the cut.

[stinger_gc]

1 minute ago, ColinKelvin said:

 Yeah, he won at liverpool before, but they are only perfect for him if it's sunny and calm (in which case they are also perfect for a lot of other top players).  If the wind blows then he won't win, and if it's windy and rainy he'll be lucky to make the cut.

Yeah but you're forgetting the fact that from 2014-2018 Rory finished top 5 in every Open he played. He's not a great wind player but Rory has a solid record at The Open. 

With that said Jordan Spieth is probably the best links golfer in the world right now and Rory doesn't even come close. He could show up to the Open playing awful and still contend on Sunday. I think Spieth will win 1-2 more claret jugs when it's all said and done.

[ColinKelvin]

12 minutes ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

Yeah but you're forgetting the fact that from 2014-2018 Rory finished top 5 in every Open he played. He's not a great wind player but Rory has a solid record at The Open. 

With that said Jordan Spieth is probably the best links golfer in the world right now and Rory doesn't even come close. He could show up to the Open playing awful and still contend on Sunday. I think Spieth will win 1-2 more claret jugs when it's all said and done.

I completely agree with you on Spieth - I think he will win at least one more Open too.

 

As for Rory - his record flatters him a bit.  Others on this thread have mentioned his "backdoor" high finishes and that is the case in the Open.  He's a great player capable of brilliant rounds, but after his 2014 win, he missed St Andrews with a careless injury, finished 16 shots behind Stenson in '16, and started 8 behind Spieth and finished 7 behind in '17.  The only one he contended in was 2018 at Carnoustie, with a large pack of other players.  And then we come to the Portrush disaster, which was the epitome of Rory putting far too much pressure on himself and failing to cope with "summer" links golf in the UK (wind, rain, cold) even at a course he knows and loves.

[oikos1]

53 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Im no expert, but maybe the guys in the know can comment.

 

Here he is doing 220 kg, 265 lbs with the bar.

 

From what I see, form is good but you can notice, with each rep, more of a “nod” forward his head, just slight lean as he reaches to push the rep. Not ideal but seems to have it pretty well in hand.

 

 

I'm no expert either, but that seems to be an unnecessary amount of weight for the athletic requirements of golf.

 

I know some of the heavy lifters who golf may disagree, but all we have to do is look at the typical pro golfer physique and it's pretty evident you don't need to be lifting large amounts of weight to be successful.  He and Tiger may have very well shortened and/or disrupted the time span of success in their careers due to excessive training.

[stinger_gc]

1 hour ago, ColinKelvin said:

I completely agree with you on Spieth - I think he will win at least one more Open too.

 

As for Rory - his record flatters him a bit.  Others on this thread have mentioned his "backdoor" high finishes and that is the case in the Open.  He's a great player capable of brilliant rounds, but after his 2014 win, he missed St Andrews with a careless injury, finished 16 shots behind Stenson in '16, and started 8 behind Spieth and finished 7 behind in '17.  The only one he contended in was 2018 at Carnoustie, with a large pack of other players.  And then we come to the Portrush disaster, which was the epitome of Rory putting far too much pressure on himself and failing to cope with "summer" links golf in the UK (wind, rain, cold) even at a course he knows and loves.

That is true. But I don't think 2017 was a backdoor top 10. He got as close as a shot back before Spieth went nuts on the last 5 holes. The US Open this year was actually the first time he's had the lead on a Sunday at a major since the Open in 2018. In golf that's an eternity.  

[Cincy_Ken]

45 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

I'm no expert either, but that seems to be an unnecessary amount of weight for the athletic requirements of golf.

 

I know some of the heavy lifters who golf may disagree, but all we have to do is look at the typical pro golfer physique and it's pretty evident you don't need to be lifting large amounts of weight to be successful.  He and Tiger may have very well shortened and/or disrupted the time span of success in their careers due to excessive training.

Have I missed Rory missing extensive time due to injury?  Maybe this would be a more appropriate discussion if that happened.

 

Golf is more competitive than ever before.  Fitness may be that extra .5% that makes the difference.  I'm similar size to Rory and lift regularly; by no means am I either a professional athlete or meathead and that weight is something that is very reasonable for good controlled exercise without overly stressing yourself.   What we know of Tiger's obsessive personality I do think led to overdoing some of the off the course stuff but I see zero evidence of that in Rory.

[bscinstnct]

45 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

I'm no expert either, but that seems to be an unnecessary amount of weight for the athletic requirements of golf.

 

I know some of the heavy lifters who golf may disagree, but all we have to do is look at the typical pro golfer physique and it's pretty evident you don't need to be lifting large amounts of weight to be successful.  He and Tiger may have very well shortened and/or disrupted the time span of success in their careers due to excessive training.

 

I agree that pro golfers don’t need to squat heavy.

 

But disagree when you say, 

 

“He and Tiger may have very well shortened and/or disrupted the time span of success in their careers due to excessive training.”

 

Where do you see any injuries or shortening of Rory’s career? He seems 100% healthy and fit. He hurt his ankle playing soccer.

 

And Tiger? Where do you see that strength training contributed to injuries? 
His knee was from golf and running, maybe dopey seals. His back, I don’t see where you get his back was injured by lifting some weights. I’ve never even seen where TW was even squatting or deadlifting.

 

 

All you need to do is look at the world and you can see that the health risks, bad backs, bad joints, even cardio vascular issues, are far more the result of sedentary lifestyles than “excessive training”

[stinger_gc]

1 hour ago, oikos1 said:

I'm no expert either, but that seems to be an unnecessary amount of weight for the athletic requirements of golf.

 

I know some of the heavy lifters who golf may disagree, but all we have to do is look at the typical pro golfer physique and it's pretty evident you don't need to be lifting large amounts of weight to be successful.  He and Tiger may have very well shortened and/or disrupted the time span of success in their careers due to excessive training.

That is not true at all. Having bone mass is very important for golf. The key is to create a fitness plan tailored towards making "golf muscles" stronger. It could be lifting, cardio, whatever.  Tiger's injuries aren't from being in the gym, he even said it was because he ran too much early in his career.

 

 

[ColinKelvin]

25 minutes ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

That is true. But I don't think 2017 was a backdoor top 10. He got as close as a shot back before Spieth went nuts on the last 5 holes. The US Open this year was actually the first time he's had the lead on a Sunday at a major since the Open in 2018. In golf that's an eternity.  

Fair enough - it was a good tournament for him - I just don't remember thinking he was ever truly in contention when I watched it. The winner was always odds-on to be from Spieth or Kuchar.  Also, pretty sure the closest Rory got was 3 shots back (maybe briefly 2 of Spieth when Kuch briefly led):

 

Hole	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18
Par	4	4	4	3	4	4	3	4	4	4	4	3	4	3	5	4	5	4
Spieth	−10	−10	−9	−8	−9	−9	−9	−9	−8	−8	−8	−8	−7	−8	−10	−11	−12	−12
Kuchar	−8	−9	−8	−8	−8	−7	−7	−7	−8	−8	−8	−8	−8	−8	−9	−9	−10	−9
Li	+1	+1	+1	+1	+1	+1	+1	E	−1	−1	−1	−2	−2	−2	−3	−4	−5	−6
Cabrera-Bello	−3	−3	−3	−3	−3	−3	−3	−4	−4	−4	−3	−4	−4	−4	−4	−4	−5	−5
McIlroy	−2	−2	−2	−2	−2	−2	−2	−2	−3	−3	−4	−4	−4	−4	−3	−3	−5	−5

Cumulative tournament scores, relative to par

 

Carnoustie '18 was closer, but overall, Mcilroy's Open record has been disappointing (given how good he is) since he won it.  As you said, he has a good chance on the Old Course next year - IF the conditions are benign...

[Ferguson]

5 hours ago, Big GG said:

Still means nothing. There are also coaches at the highest level of pro sports that won championships that never reached the highest levels of play in the sport they coach.

 

The results from "pro sports coaches", that you apparently hold in the highest regard, involved with team sports cannot be extrapolated to an individual achievement sport such as golf.  These "high level pro sports coaches" you speak of are always supported by a entourage of assistant coaches. The expertise is therefore shared and not held by a single coach.  This is vastly different with 1:1 golf coaching.   

 

 

[bladehunter]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:55 PM, oikos1 said:

Yeah, but strokes gained says putting isn't that big of a deal.  Just gotta get hot at the right time.  Seven years and still hasn't timed it right. 🤣🤣🤣

Post of the week for sure ^ 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

12 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

The results from "pro sports coaches", that you apparently hold in the highest regard, involved with team sports cannot be extrapolated to an individual achievement sport such as golf.  These "high level pro sports coaches" you speak of are always supported by a entourage of assistant coaches. The expertise is therefore shared and not held by a single coach.  This is vastly different with 1:1 golf coaching.   

 

 

Sherm Chavoor was a swimming coach from the United States. He notably coached Olympic swimmers Mark Spitz, Debbie Meyer and Mike Burton, and many more. Under his coaching, America earned 31 Olympic medals, 21 gold, and 7 of which were won by legendary swimmer Mark Spitz, arguably the greatest athlete of all time prior to Michael Phelps.

 

Sherm could not swim 🙂 

[bladehunter]

On 10/20/2021 at 12:11 PM, PHILsThemannnn said:

“I’m not squeezing it as much, I’m not trying to get on top of it as much as I was,” he said. “I know what I do well with the driver, I’ve done it my whole career. I turn big, wide, sort of wind up and then sort of hang on my right side and throw my arms and my body at it. You know, I was trying to go away from from using my talent and my hands and trying to do it all with body turn and try to make it very mechanically efficient.”

 

I read this quote from Rory and I think he knows what's good for his swing. I know he's been working on the fade a lot recently but he was actually playing a lot of draws at the CJ Cup.

 

That quote is a great sign.  We hear so much about not being “ handsy” today with both swing and putter.  That doesn’t always translate to the Uber talented. Their hand control is their talent.  Trying to minimize it is like cutting off 3 fingers in order to loosen the grip.  It’s usually a bad idea.  

[Titleist99]

43 minutes ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

That is not true at all. Having bone mass is very important for golf. The key is to create a fitness plan tailored towards making "golf muscles" stronger. It could be lifting, cardio, whatever.  Tiger's injuries aren't from being in the gym, he even said it was because he ran too much early in his career.

 

 

Sad part is... You'll have people on this site that argue with first hand confirmation.....LOL!

Edited October 21, 2021 by Titleist99

[Ferguson]

17 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Sherm Chavoor was a swimming coach from the United States. He notably coached Olympic swimmers Mark Spitz, Debbie Meyer and Mike Burton, and many more. Under his coaching, America earned 31 Olympic medals, 21 gold, and 7 of which were won by legendary swimmer Mark Spitz, arguably the greatest athlete of all time prior to Michael Phelps.

 

Sherm could not swim 🙂 

 

Last time I checked this is a GOLF WRX web forum not BUTTERFLY WRX. 

 

Do you have a 1:1 coaching example that pertains to golf (specifically, a person that never achieved even so much as winning by cheating at a company scramble tourney that went on to personally coach a high-ranked major winner in professional golf)?

 

 

 

[stinger_gc]

50 minutes ago, ColinKelvin said:

Fair enough - it was a good tournament for him - I just don't remember thinking he was ever truly in contention when I watched it. The winner was always odds-on to be from Spieth or Kuchar.  Also, pretty sure the closest Rory got was 3 shots back (maybe briefly 2 of Spieth when Kuch briefly led):

 

Hole	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18
Par	4	4	4	3	4	4	3	4	4	4	4	3	4	3	5	4	5	4
Spieth	−10	−10	−9	−8	−9	−9	−9	−9	−8	−8	−8	−8	−7	−8	−10	−11	−12	−12
Kuchar	−8	−9	−8	−8	−8	−7	−7	−7	−8	−8	−8	−8	−8	−8	−9	−9	−10	−9
Li	+1	+1	+1	+1	+1	+1	+1	E	−1	−1	−1	−2	−2	−2	−3	−4	−5	−6
Cabrera-Bello	−3	−3	−3	−3	−3	−3	−3	−4	−4	−4	−3	−4	−4	−4	−4	−4	−5	−5
McIlroy	−2	−2	−2	−2	−2	−2	−2	−2	−3	−3	−4	−4	−4	−4	−3	−3	−5	−5

Cumulative tournament scores, relative to par

 

Carnoustie '18 was closer, but overall, Mcilroy's Open record has been disappointing (given how good he is) since he won it.  As you said, he has a good chance on the Old Course next year - IF the conditions are benign...

Oh wow haha that's cool seeing a breakdown of the scores. My money is on Spieth for St. Andrews next year. I remember he came really close to winning the title in 2015. Played in some awful conditions the 2nd round, 4-putted the 8th hole for a double on Sunday, and played the road hole in +3 for the week including a bogey on Sunday.