Father Son Bandon Trip

[Hammersticks]

Planning a surprise Bandon trip for my dad's 60the bday. We have never been on a big golf trip before and after seeing it for the first time on No Laying Up I knew we had to go there. I am wanting to do 5 days 4 nights there and with my funds will most likely be limited to having to decide between 3-4 courses. I have read most people skip either Old Mac or Trails but am struggling on which one would be best to leave out for a first timer and for my dad most likely an only timer. The current itinerary I am considering would have us flying in Day 1 with no golf play Shorty's and Punchbowl to get a feel for things, Day 2 Old Mac and Preserve, Day 3 Pacific Dunes and Bandon Dunes, Day 4 Sheep Ranch and Preserve, Day 5 fly out with no golf. I have considered maybe dropping the caddies on all courses or keep them on just a select few but am concerned how that might hinder our overall experience. I am open to any and all insight on this. Thanks! 

[ND2005]

8 minutes ago, Hammersticks said:

Planning a surprise Bandon trip for my dad's 60the bday. We have never been on a big golf trip before and after seeing it for the first time on No Laying Up I knew we had to go there. I am wanting to do 5 days 4 nights there and with my funds will most likely be limited to having to decide between 3-4 courses. I have read most people skip either Old Mac or Trails but am struggling on which one would be best to leave out for a first timer and for my dad most likely an only timer. The current itinerary I am considering would have us flying in Day 1 with no golf play Shorty's and Punchbowl to get a feel for things, Day 2 Old Mac and Preserve, Day 3 Pacific Dunes and Bandon Dunes, Day 4 Sheep Ranch and Preserve, Day 5 fly out with no golf. I have considered maybe dropping the caddies on all courses or keep them on just a select few but am concerned how that might hinder our overall experience. I am open to any and all insight on this. Thanks! 

when are you trying to do this? 
 
They released all travel dates through end of 2023 at the beginning of this month and are pretty booked up. 2022 has been fully booked for a long time now. 

[eboettne]

11 minutes ago, Hammersticks said:

Planning a surprise Bandon trip for my dad's 60the bday. We have never been on a big golf trip before and after seeing it for the first time on No Laying Up I knew we had to go there. I am wanting to do 5 days 4 nights there and with my funds will most likely be limited to having to decide between 3-4 courses. I have read most people skip either Old Mac or Trails but am struggling on which one would be best to leave out for a first timer and for my dad most likely an only timer. The current itinerary I am considering would have us flying in Day 1 with no golf play Shorty's and Punchbowl to get a feel for things, Day 2 Old Mac and Preserve, Day 3 Pacific Dunes and Bandon Dunes, Day 4 Sheep Ranch and Preserve, Day 5 fly out with no golf. I have considered maybe dropping the caddies on all courses or keep them on just a select few but am concerned how that might hinder our overall experience. I am open to any and all insight on this. Thanks! 

Only advice I have is don't skip Trails

[Abh159]

Not sure what type of shape your dad is in for a 60 year old, but walking 36 a day for 3 straight days isn't easy for anyone. Especially if you do it without caddies...

[ncgolfer1234]

50 minutes ago, Hammersticks said:

Planning a surprise Bandon trip for my dad's 60the bday. We have never been on a big golf trip before and after seeing it for the first time on No Laying Up I knew we had to go there. I am wanting to do 5 days 4 nights there and with my funds will most likely be limited to having to decide between 3-4 courses. I have read most people skip either Old Mac or Trails but am struggling on which one would be best to leave out for a first timer and for my dad most likely an only timer. The current itinerary I am considering would have us flying in Day 1 with no golf play Shorty's and Punchbowl to get a feel for things, Day 2 Old Mac and Preserve, Day 3 Pacific Dunes and Bandon Dunes, Day 4 Sheep Ranch and Preserve, Day 5 fly out with no golf. I have considered maybe dropping the caddies on all courses or keep them on just a select few but am concerned how that might hinder our overall experience. I am open to any and all insight on this. Thanks! 

 

I just booked Bandon yesterday for 4 people with same length of stay.  Granted we needed two rooms, but for April we had one option and that began on Easter Sunday.  We had two options in September, but then October was pretty open, as far as rooms go.  Some of the courses, particularly Pacific Dunes, seem to be pretty full already for 2023.

[jlevitt9]

I have been to Bandon multiple times with various groups, including my 80-year-old dad (fit for his age).

 

You won't want to do 36 every day. Yes, it's the way to get the most for your $, but by day 3, the second round will feel like you're just going through the motions vs. actually enjoying golf.

 

To be totally honest, I think Pacific is overrated, and Bandon and Pacific are the two most similar courses, so if I were to skip 1, I'd skip Pacific. yes, that's a hot take.

 

Old Mac - Crazy links style

Sheep - Resort golf with amazing views

Bandon/Pacific - Great golf with variety

Trails - Mature trees and feels very east coast golf

Preserve - Play it once....I would rather do punchbowl or a second round at 1/2 price than play it twice. Use putter on the 13th.

 

You can probably use a rickshaw (sp) for Old Mac. You will want a caddy for Trails. 

 

Other insights - Get the meatloaf at the pub. Use the shuttles. Park and don't get back in your car for the week. 

 

DM me if you want to chat. You're in for a great time. Heaven on earth and it will be incredible memories. 

 

Josh

 

 

[1OCGolfer]

If budget is limited, look at going in the shoulder seasons as the rates are a bit more affordable (on both golf and lodging).  If you're into golf course architecture, Old Mac is worth playing over Trails.  If you don't care about that stuff, I'd take Trails over Old Mac.  Trails can be a tough walk and you don't get as many views of the ocean.

I'd recommend forecaddies over regular caddies to save money. Forecaddies will help with distances, putting and lines off the tee which are definitely needed if you've never played the course before.  They let you use push carts for $5 per round and they're great. You can even push them on the greens.

I'd definitely recommend playing the right tees. 6k yards doesn't seem like enough but when factoring in wind and a new course, it's more than enough.

 

I'd recommend playing a round the first day you're in that way you have more wiggle room to cancel a round later in your trip.  Playing 36 holes on one of your last days can be a game of willing yourself to the finish versus actually enjoying the round. Shortys and the punchbowl are easily things you can add on to any day that you're there. I'd personally struggle to spend an entire afternoon just doing those two things but up to you. 

[dvq9654]

17 minutes ago, jlevitt9 said:

To be totally honest, I think Pacific is overrated, and Bandon and Pacific are the two most similar courses, so if I were to skip 1, I'd skip Pacific. yes, that's a hot take.

 

This is a VERY hot take, and I couldn't disagree more. Pacific is the best course on the property, and I think you would be making a big mistake by not playing it. 

 

As to which to leave out, I love Trails, so it would be hard for me to recommend leaving off, but I would suggest doing your research and leaving off either Old Mac or Trails (for the "big" courses). That said, if you can leave off Preserve and keep both Old Mac and Trails, that would be ideal. 

 

Also - Sheep Ranch is resort golf? We must go to different resorts...lol

[jlevitt9]

1 minute ago, dvq9654 said:

 

This is a VERY hot take, and I couldn't disagree more. Pacific is the best course on the property, and I think you would be making a big mistake by not playing it. 

 

As to which to leave out, I love Trails, so it would be hard for me to recommend leaving off, but I would suggest doing your research and leaving off either Old Mac or Trails (for the "big" courses). That said, if you can leave off Preserve and keep both Old Mac and Trails, that would be ideal. 

 

Also - Sheep Ranch is resort golf? We must go to different resorts...lol

 

When I say "resort golf," I mean it's the easiest and most forgiving course on property. It's gorgeous and it's a must play, but it doesn't punish you as much for a bad shot as the other courses, if that makes sense. 

 

Yes, I think Pacific is overrated. Love teeing off on the first hole with a 6 iron 😉  

 

Bandon/Pacific, Trail and Old Mac are all so different, so for me, if you left off Trails or Old Mac, you're leaving off a very unique experience to the property. Like I said, hot take, lol. 

[dvq9654]

1 minute ago, jlevitt9 said:

 

When I say "resort golf," I mean it's the easiest and most forgiving course on property. It's gorgeous and it's a must play, but it doesn't punish you as much for a bad shot as the other courses, if that makes sense. 

 

Yes, I think Pacific is overrated. Love teeing off on the first hole with a 6 iron 😉  

 

Bandon/Pacific, Trail and Old Mac are all so different, so for me, if you left off Trails or Old Mac, you're leaving off a very unique experience to the property. Like I said, hot take, lol. 

Haha, got it. Sheep Ranch feels like a grown-up version of mini golf to me. It's fun, but I don't know that I'd want to play it every day. 

 

To each his own. I do agree Pacific has some only decent holes, but also has some of my favorite as well (e.g., 3, 4, 10, 11, 13, etc.)

 

I'd also argue the first hole at Bandon, Pacific and Trails are all weak, short and easy, so not sure that's a fair criticism of Pacific alone, but your point is taken. 

 

Bottom line for the OP is there is no right answer and you'll have a great time at each course, so don't have FOMO and enjoy your trip.  

[jlevitt9]

3 minutes ago, dvq9654 said:

Haha, got it. Sheep Ranch feels like a grown-up version of mini golf to me. It's fun, but I don't know that I'd want to play it every day. 

 

To each his own. I do agree Pacific has some only decent holes, but also has some of my favorite as well (e.g., 3, 4, 10, 11, 13, etc.)

 

I'd also argue the first hole at Bandon, Pacific and Trails are all weak, short and easy, so not sure that's a fair criticism of Pacific alone, but your point is taken. 

 

Bottom line for the OP is there is no right answer and you'll have a great time at each course, so don't have FOMO and enjoy your trip.  

 

Well said about Sheep. Totally agree. and 17 on Pacific may be my fav hole on property.

 

Agree w/you across the board as well on the bottom line. Doesn't matter, OP, you will have an amazing time regardless of courses you play!

[1OCGolfer]

If I had 10 rounds for free at Bandon, here's how I'd break them up:

4 rounds at Sheep Ranch. If I could play one course every day for the rest of my life, I'd easily play Sheep Ranch. Hard to not have fun at this course unless it's blowing 30 mph (which if it's blowing 30 mph, no course on the property will be fun).

2 rounds Pac Dunes. It's rated as one of the best public courses in the country for a reason.  Only 2 bad holes IMO

1 round at Bandon Dunes. It has one of the best holes at the resort with #16 but the rest of the holes are pretty forgettable or there are other similar holes on other courses that do a better job than the ones on Bandon Dunes IMO. 

1 round at Old Mac.  Now that I've played a few courses that have template holes, I think I'd "get it" more this time. 

1 round at Trails.  This was by far my worst round so I'd want a round at redemption.

1 round at the Preserve. It definitely is fun for what it is. But I'd argue it's more about the people you're with and less about the actual golf holes. 

[Apindara]

5 hours ago, Hammersticks said:

Planning a surprise Bandon trip for my dad's 60the bday. We have never been on a big golf trip before and after seeing it for the first time on No Laying Up I knew we had to go there. I am wanting to do 5 days 4 nights there and with my funds will most likely be limited to having to decide between 3-4 courses. I have read most people skip either Old Mac or Trails but am struggling on which one would be best to leave out for a first timer and for my dad most likely an only timer. The current itinerary I am considering would have us flying in Day 1 with no golf play Shorty's and Punchbowl to get a feel for things, Day 2 Old Mac and Preserve, Day 3 Pacific Dunes and Bandon Dunes, Day 4 Sheep Ranch and Preserve, Day 5 fly out with no golf. I have considered maybe dropping the caddies on all courses or keep them on just a select few but am concerned how that might hinder our overall experience. I am open to any and all insight on this. Thanks! 

You are a good son to put this in motion. I’m sure dad will enjoy what ever ends up in the itinerary.

[hammergolf]

17 hours ago, Hammersticks said:

Planning a surprise Bandon trip for my dad's 60the bday. We have never been on a big golf trip before and after seeing it for the first time on No Laying Up I knew we had to go there. I am wanting to do 5 days 4 nights there and with my funds will most likely be limited to having to decide between 3-4 courses. I have read most people skip either Old Mac or Trails but am struggling on which one would be best to leave out for a first timer and for my dad most likely an only timer. The current itinerary I am considering would have us flying in Day 1 with no golf play Shorty's and Punchbowl to get a feel for things, Day 2 Old Mac and Preserve, Day 3 Pacific Dunes and Bandon Dunes, Day 4 Sheep Ranch and Preserve, Day 5 fly out with no golf. I have considered maybe dropping the caddies on all courses or keep them on just a select few but am concerned how that might hinder our overall experience. I am open to any and all insight on this. Thanks! 

Definitely would not miss Trails… If you’re gonna skip one make it Sheep Ranch or Old Mac. Trails is head and shoulders above those two. I would also recommend to not drop caddies. If you haven’t played there before you will be absolutely lost without them, especially on and around the greens. Have a great trip!

[StudentGolfer4]

Caddies will help add to the experience and most likely lead to lower scores. Walking with a caddy is my favorite way to play a round of golf. 
 

I echo what others have said about 36 a day. If you aren’t use to doing that in less than perfect weather conditions (which Bandon usually is) it will make for long days. 
 

Jealous of your trip! I wouldn’t stress out too much about which course to play. In 20 years when you guys look back at this trip the golf courses will be the last thing you discuss. 

[jvincent]

@Hammersticks you haven't said what time of year you are thinking of.

 

If budget is an issue, definitely consider going during one of the shoulder seasons. November and March/April can have great weather. Spring will give you more sunlight so will make 36 holes / day easier.

 

My suggestion would be to try and play all 5 of the big courses. As you can see from this thread opinions on which one is best vary wildly. I describe this as the "which supermodel should I date" problem.

 

Caddies are certainly helpful, but not absolutely necessary.

 

One other piece of advice since it is your first trip and may be your first links experience. Don't worry about score. Just embrace the experience and have fun.

[HackerDave]

Went for the first time in October.  It will not be my last time.   Great place and your dad will love it.   I'm 58 and not in great shape and had no problem walking for 5 days.   Personally I would play the 5 "big" courses and play the Preserve once.  It is one of the coolest par threes in the world but once is enough.  We played it twice and frankly I would have MUCH preferred a second shot at Pacific, Bandon or SR.  

 

Old Mac is pretty cool.   For a lot of our guys, it was a favorite.   I LOVED Pacific and SR.  We had a week of sunshine and little wind in October which truly was remarkable.   My best round was at SR so therefore it is my fav!!  If the wind is down, play SR from the back.   I'm 58 and a 12 index and it was just fine.   We played around 6,400 on all the other courses.   

 

Use the shuttle and make dinner reservations in advance.  

[Hammersticks]

On 12/17/2021 at 3:07 PM, ND2005 said:

when are you trying to do this? 
 
They released all travel dates through end of 2023 at the beginning of this month and are pretty booked up. 2022 has been fully booked for a long time now. 

Sorry for the late reply. We are planning on hopefully doing this in 2023. If we have to wait until 2024 I am fine with that as well. I would like to do the shoulder months somewhere in March or April. 

[Hammersticks]

On 12/17/2021 at 3:09 PM, Abh159 said:

Not sure what type of shape your dad is in for a 60 year old, but walking 36 a day for 3 straight days isn't easy for anyone. Especially if you do it without caddies...

Yeah I have consulted r/golf on Reddit and I am starting to consider this a lot. My dad is in great shape for his age but it is something I am considering altering more so from the aspect of just not having jammed days and being able to let loose and enjoy things a bit more. 

[Hammersticks]

On 12/17/2021 at 5:35 PM, dvq9654 said:

Haha, got it. Sheep Ranch feels like a grown-up version of mini golf to me. It's fun, but I don't know that I'd want to play it every day. 

 

To each his own. I do agree Pacific has some only decent holes, but also has some of my favorite as well (e.g., 3, 4, 10, 11, 13, etc.)

 

I'd also argue the first hole at Bandon, Pacific and Trails are all weak, short and easy, so not sure that's a fair criticism of Pacific alone, but your point is taken. 

 

Bottom line for the OP is there is no right answer and you'll have a great time at each course, so don't have FOMO and enjoy your trip.  

 

Lol I appreciate it! It has been a struggle because I want to try and figure out a way to fit it all in but know I most likely won't be able to afford all courses on an extended stay. The more and more I am getting into it the more I am  leaning to only picking 3 or 4 of the 5 and scheduling 1 round a day so we can maximize our enjoyment levels while not being to worn out. 

[Hammersticks]

On 12/18/2021 at 8:55 AM, StudentGolfer4 said:

Jealous of your trip! I wouldn’t stress out too much about which course to play. In 20 years when you guys look back at this trip the golf courses will be the last thing you discuss. 

 

Yeah I am trying not to stress to much about the decision. Like one of the last posters I worry about having slight FOMO, but I am starting to lean towards just doing 3 or 4 courses so we can have 1 round a day and not be to strained by 36 a day one of the days. 

[Hammersticks]

On 12/18/2021 at 9:15 AM, jvincent said:

@Hammersticks you haven't said what time of year you are thinking of.

 

If budget is an issue, definitely consider going during one of the shoulder seasons. November and March/April can have great weather. Spring will give you more sunlight so will make 36 holes / day easier.

 

My suggestion would be to try and play all 5 of the big courses. As you can see from this thread opinions on which one is best vary wildly. I describe this as the "which supermodel should I date" problem.

 

Caddies are certainly helpful, but not absolutely necessary.

 

One other piece of advice since it is your first trip and may be your first links experience. Don't worry about score. Just embrace the experience and have fun.

 

Current plan would be for 2023 in March-April or any shoulder months I could get it. 

[jvincent]

1 hour ago, Hammersticks said:

 

Current plan would be for 2023 in March-April or any shoulder months I could get it. 

 

Good plan.

 

If it helps, I'm about to turn 56 and just did a Bandon trip in November.

 

I'm in decent shape and walk and carry all summer. I walked and carried all of our rounds (7 in 5 days) at Bandon without any issues. If you get caddies then alternating 36-18-36-18  should be no problem for your dad if he normally walks. Throw in a Preserve round on one of the 18 days and you are good to go.

 

As others have mentioned, you don't want to go into a Bandon trip having been a habitual cart golfer. 

[jjr]

I'm 62 my best buddy is 67 we went Feb 2019 just prior to the pandemic and played 4 days, 18 at the Preserve 3 mornings, then 18 + 9 3 days +18 only on our 4th day.

I always walk and am in pretty good shape, it can be done unless pops isn't in shape. I would never cut Trails, my fav. Old Mac is my least fav. I need to go back to play Sheep Ranch.

No caddies, we didn't need them.

Edited December 20, 2021 by jjr

[2bGood]

On 12/17/2021 at 4:35 PM, 1OCGolfer said:

If I had 10 rounds for free at Bandon, here's how I'd break them up:

4 rounds at Sheep Ranch. If I could play one course every day for the rest of my life, I'd easily play Sheep Ranch. Hard to not have fun at this course unless it's blowing 30 mph (which if it's blowing 30 mph, no course on the property will be fun).

2 rounds Pac Dunes. It's rated as one of the best public courses in the country for a reason.  Only 2 bad holes IMO

1 round at Bandon Dunes. It has one of the best holes at the resort with #16 but the rest of the holes are pretty forgettable or there are other similar holes on other courses that do a better job than the ones on Bandon Dunes IMO. 

1 round at Old Mac.  Now that I've played a few courses that have template holes, I think I'd "get it" more this time. 

1 round at Trails.  This was by far my worst round so I'd want a round at redemption.

1 round at the Preserve. It definitely is fun for what it is. But I'd argue it's more about the people you're with and less about the actual golf holes. 

That is the amazing thing about Bandon is there is are 1000 different legit answers to this questions. I have played about 100 rounds on the property. My 'favourite' course has changed many times over the years as they are all great courses. 

[The Pearl]

Do not sacrifice a course to save money.  Bag the caddies to save money.  Bag the Preserve.  I would never play  the Preserve over any of the regular courses.

 

YOU HAVE to schedule 36 a day. Do Not only schedule 18.  That is a rookie mistake.  You are not required to play or pay for the second round of the day, you can cancel that if you are fried.   YOU DO NOT WANT to sit around while it is nice out because you got rained out or did not schedule an afternoon round. 

 

The reason you schedule 36 is for ultimate flexibility due to weather and rest. Since he has a whole year to prep, have your Dad get in shape.  You are likely to get a rainout along the way. Pretty rare in shoulder season to get in 3 or 4 straight days of 36 holes in good weather. 

 

Schedule all the courses. With a twosome, you probably will have some flexibility to adjust the schedule. 

 

Stay downtown a night or two to save money at the beginning or end of the trip. Don't stay on the property when you don't have to, only for the days required to secure tee times.  Fly in Day, stay downtown. You can still use the facilities.  Last day of golf, check out, play your rounds, stay down town or wherever. Fly out the next day.  It is a bit of a logistical pain, but it saves two nights of lodging.

 

IN GENERAL, Old Mac is the least popular course. It is the biggest "hit or miss" on the property.  Some love it, some are not impressed.  It is the course that you are most likely to be able to hop on with a schedule change.  My group has dropped it from the rotation.  

 

Pacific and Bandon are of course must plays. Many think Trails is the best course on the property.  I would never skip it, ever. 

 

If you are staying 4 golf days, you simply schedule each course and go from there.

 

Also, YOU DON'T have to play all 18 on your second round of the day.  There are loops on Pacific Dunes, Old Mac, and Bandon comes back to the clubhouse at the 9th.  You can play the 1st 11 or 13 holes at the SR and it comes right back to the clubhouse. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by The Pearl

[ND2005]

14 minutes ago, The Pearl said:

Do not sacrifice a course to save money.  Bag the caddies to save money.  Bag the Preserve.  I would never play  the Preserve over any of the regular courses.

 

YOU HAVE to schedule 36 a day. Do Not only schedule 18.  That is a rookie mistake.  You are not required to play or pay for the second round of the day, you can cancel that if you are fried.   YOU DO NOT WANT to sit around while it is nice out because you got rained out or did not schedule an afternoon round. 

 

The reason you schedule 36 is for ultimate flexibility due to weather and rest. Since he has a whole year to prep, have your Dad get in shape.  You are likely to get a rainout along the way. Pretty rare in shoulder season to get in 3 or 4 straight days of 36 holes in good weather. 

 

Schedule all the courses. With a twosome, you probably will have some flexibility to adjust the schedule. 

 

Great advice. 

 

[2bGood]

On 12/21/2021 at 5:30 AM, The Pearl said:

Do not sacrifice a course to save money.  Bag the caddies to save money.  Bag the Preserve.  I would never play  the Preserve over any of the regular courses.

 

YOU HAVE to schedule 36 a day. Do Not only schedule 18.  That is a rookie mistake.  You are not required to play or pay for the second round of the day, you can cancel that if you are fried.   YOU DO NOT WANT to sit around while it is nice out because you got rained out or did not schedule an afternoon round. 

 

The reason you schedule 36 is for ultimate flexibility due to weather and rest. Since he has a whole year to prep, have your Dad get in shape.  You are likely to get a rainout along the way. Pretty rare in shoulder season to get in 3 or 4 straight days of 36 holes in good weather. 

 

Schedule all the courses. With a twosome, you probably will have some flexibility to adjust the schedule. 

 

Stay downtown a night or two to save money at the beginning or end of the trip. Don't stay on the property when you don't have to, only for the days required to secure tee times.  Fly in Day, stay downtown. You can still use the facilities.  Last day of golf, check out, play your rounds, stay down town or wherever. Fly out the next day.  It is a bit of a logistical pain, but it saves two nights of lodging.

 

IN GENERAL, Old Mac is the least popular course. It is the biggest "hit or miss" on the property.  Some love it, some are not impressed.  It is the course that you are most likely to be able to hop on with a schedule change.  My group has dropped it from the rotation.  

 

Pacific and Bandon are of course must plays. Many think Trails is the best course on the property.  I would never skip it, ever. 

 

If you are staying 4 golf days, you simply schedule each course and go from there.

 

Also, YOU DON'T have to play all 18 on your second round of the day.  There are loops on Pacific Dunes, Old Mac, and Bandon comes back to the clubhouse at the 9th.  You can play the 1st 11 or 13 holes at the SR and it comes right back to the clubhouse. 

This is very solid advice. 

 

 

[jjr]

The wisdom of the Pearl is correct.

 

We stayed in town the 1st night we arrived and the night of out last round.

 

I will add don't miss the Preserve, we both loved it, nice gift when you make a hole in one too!

 

 

[2bGood]

4 hours ago, jjr said:

The wisdom of the Pearl is correct.

 

We stayed in town the 1st night we arrived and the night of out last round.

 

I will add don't miss the Preserve, we both loved it, nice gift when you make a hole in one too!

 

 

The Preserve has been the source of some of the best times I have had golfing. It is riot to go play in a large group and play some sort of silly KP or birdie game. I am not sure it would have the same attraction as twosome. Having said that, it has some of the best view on the property and some really fun shots.