LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[subrew]

9 minutes ago, bighitlama said:

 

I think it would be a mistake to believe the players and their agents were not aware of LIVs long range plans when they signed up.   Certainly at least for the time period they signed on for.   If they didn't like what they saw they wouldn't have signed on. 

 

Many in this thread are acting like this is new news.  But LIV invested in the Asian Tour last year, and the four International Series events being run this year have been on the schedule for 10 months.  Scheduled long enough for OWGR to recognize them, and award them points.  This was discussed 50+ pages ago in this thread, but the 4-5 people with the highest post counts in this thread aren't really interested in the details.  

[Ghost of Snead]

9 minutes ago, jdowning111 said:

https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/rumour-hideki-matsuyama-offered-400-million-join-liv-golf

 

400 million?!? Holy cow 

 

Must be a rumor - how would they possibly pay Brian Gay, D.J. Trahan, and Greg Chalmers ? 

[GreatStrike]

53 minutes ago, magnus7319 said:

Has LIV secured a television contract yet? Can I actually watch their tournaments and hear their announcers? Only on YouTube? Do they have a terrestrial tv deal? 

 

Watch commercial-free with the best camera coverage and expert announcers/commentators and on-course analysis : https://www.livgolf.com/watch  

[Ghost of Snead]

42 minutes ago, subrew said:

 

Many in this thread are acting like this is new news.  But LIV invested in the Asian Tour last year, and the four International Series events being run this year have been on the schedule for 10 months.  Scheduled long enough for OWGR to recognize them, and award them points.  This was discussed 50+ pages ago in this thread, but the 4-5 people with the highest post counts in this thread aren't really interested in the details.  

 

Yahtzee ! But all it takes is one poster to latch on and you have something.

    

Edited July 28, 2022 by Ghost of Snead

[NormanFan]

2 hours ago, 00steven said:

 

 

So with this info, HOW exactly are LIV and the PGA TOUR supposed to "cooperate" according to some people on this thread?

[bighitlama]

58 minutes ago, magnus7319 said:

Has LIV secured a television contract yet? Can I actually watch their tournaments and hear their announcers? Only on YouTube? Do they have a terrestrial tv deal? 

 

Yes many, they are being broadcast in over 150 countries and territories.   It is my opinion, the only reason it has not happened in the US is due to pressure from the PGAT.   Hopefully the Justice department will get to the bottom of that as they have already opened an investigation into the PGAT actions in regard to LIV golf.

 

https://www.livgolf.com/how-to-watch

[kmbean]

LIV needs to continue to push to sign the remaining members of the “Golf Boys”

[Ghost of Snead]

2 hours ago, Hocus_Pocus said:

Next year's 2023 field will play a 14 tournament schedule for a total of $405 million, an increase of $150 million. The PGA Tour is thought to face major difficulty competing with this enormous purse amount!

 

Early in 2023 it is expected for the total purse amount will increase significantly higher, approaching the magical $1 billion mark. 

 

LIV's expanding global platform will add a new dimension to the golf ecosystem, one that provides an opportunity for players and fans around the world to help maximize the sport's true potential.  

 

 

 

 

Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that with the increased payouts to LIV golf professionals, members of each golfer's team stand to make substantially more. It's been reported several times that player agents are pushing their players toward LIV with some of them reportedly getting 20%. Easy to surmise that golf instructors (such as yourself) could easily increase what they charge their stable of players, assuming they can get a pro who plays on LIV. With more player $ comes the ability to have the pro travel with them everywhere. Pros like Gankas (assuming he still works with Wolff) could easily boost his rates and Wolff wouldn't bat an eye with the newly guaranteed money. Results don't even matter as everyone gets a ribbon and cash. Trainers / therapists / chefs / pilots are all on the gravy train.

 

I see a lot of golf instructors on Twitter promoting LIV. Why not ? They might not like the idea of destroying the PGA Tour but If the end result is higher hourly/daily rates on average for everyone, it's a win for the instruction industry. Will be fun to keep an eye on instructor hourly rates to see where they go in the next few years. It's all about whether $ is highest on your priority list.

   

    

Edited July 28, 2022 by Ghost of Snead

[subrew]

55 minutes ago, jmck said:

 

Schwartzel won the LIV London hit and giggle (link).

 

The last time Schwartzel received OWGR points was his T60 at the 2022 PGA (link).

 

Either OWGR points have been awarded for LIV events or they haven't.  There is no difference of opinion here.  One is factually true, one is factually false. 

 

There are two series under the LIV banner.  They are poorly named, and poorly informed to the general public  This is not opinion.    

 

The INTERNATIONAL Series is the series that has held two events (sorta three, maybe) thus far, with two more planned in August.  That is the "feeder" series that got mentioned in the LIV press release today, that appears to be new "news" to most people following LIV.  But the INTERNATIONAL Series has been planned since last year, when LIV invested in the Asian Tour.  There was the INTERNATIONAL Series Thailand event in March, and the INTERNATIONAL Series England event in early June.  Technically, the PIF Saudi INTERNATIONAL held in February, that Harnold Varner III won fell under that too.  Those events earned OWGR points, being hosted under the Asian Tour.  There are two more INTERNATIONAL Series events scheduled in August, Singapore and Korea iirc.  The plan is to expand that to a dozen or so events in 2023, and use it for relegation.  That was part of the press release today.

 

Thailand:  

http://www.owgr.com/en/Events/EventResult.aspx?eventid=9426

 

England:

http://www.owgr.com/en/Events/EventResult.aspx?eventid=9540

 

The full Asian Tour Schedule, showing the INTERNATIONAL Series events:

 

https://asiantour.com/schedule

 

 

The LIV INVITATIONAL events are the ones held in London and Portland, and now NJ.  Those were scheduled much later than the INTERNATIONAL Series events, and has been pointed out, they just recently applied for OWGR points.

 

I'm not making an opinion call.  People just don't seem to understand the structure of the two different event types, and how the INTERNATIONAL and INVITATIONAL events work together.  Mostly because LIV did a terrible job of discussing it, but also because when it was talked about, it got drowned out by the other 99.9999% of LIV news.

Edited July 28, 2022 by subrew
spelling

[aus10KC]

1 hour ago, magnus7319 said:

Has LIV secured a television contract yet? Can I actually watch their tournaments and hear their announcers? Only on YouTube? Do they have a terrestrial tv deal? 

 

Television is so old school, LIV is innovative. Do you think the preteens watch TV? No, they watch youtube and tiktok and that is what LIV is going after, you have to think down the road big picture.

[subrew]

Here was an article about the INTERNATIONAL event in England, prior to the INVITATIONAL event.  

 

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/saudi-backed-asian-tour-confirms-first-ever-england-tournament

 

A snippet from that article, discusses how top finishers of the INTERNATIONAL Thailand and England events, earned entry into the INVITATIONAL event in London.

 

Quote

The top-three from the cumulative International Series rankings after the events in Thailand and England will gain starts at the LIV Golf Invitational, as will the top-two finishers in the International Series England not otherwise exempt. Additionally, the top player on the Asian Tour Order of Merit at the time, along with the top two players from the 2020-21 final Order of Merit will also be exempt.

 

First announced in November of last year, the International Series forms part of the Asian Tour and is made up of 10 new events to be played over the next 10 years on the back of a $300m investment from LIV Golf Investments.

 

And another article dating back to Feb, doing the "what we know about this series..." type thing:

 

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/the-international-series-what-we-know-and-which-countries-are-hosting

 

And an initial article dating back to Nov 2021, discussing the structure:

 

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/greg-norman-to-drive-momentous-partnership-with-asian-tour

Edited July 28, 2022 by subrew

[bscinstnct]

This is the piece of you want to understand the LIV

 

Lots of quotes on their specific plans from “Atul Khosla, who left his post as chief corporate development and brand officer of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to become LIV Golf’s president and COO. “
 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-league-format-2023-refining-business-model-turning-away-top-50-players

 

[Str8Putt]

2 hours ago, Dicka said:

Still pretty telling that the only players LIV seems to be able to recruit are either washed up, over the hill group that know they can no longer compete against the current younger crop, the banged up injured guys that are taking the money knowing they don't have much time left...or just the players so unppular on Tour they'll no longer be missed. 

Not really telling IMO. I expect some are just waiting to see how things shake out before committing, maybe year 2 or year 3. If the Majors are on board or points get awarded then watch out

 

[idrive]

2 hours ago, Hocus_Pocus said:

 

Oh? How so? Please share! 

 

Except for the possibility of the majors, unless there's a merger, we're not going to have all the best players in select tournaments like we do now. did. We are fractured.

 

If liv money wins then we'll have nothing but exhibition golf.

 

 

 

.

Edited July 28, 2022 by idrive

[NJBigFish22]

4 hours ago, jdl said:

Right, just using your time frame:

 

Isn't that what LIV has essentially given us?

 

And we're never getting those great fields because LIV is turning away those top players....

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-league-format-2023-refining-business-model-turning-away-top-50-players

I just read this article..  If LIV is turning players away, I think the PGAT could be in serious trouble.  What I mean by this is that more and more players are taking this serious and not just an exhibition.  Players recruiting others, the guaranteed money and more control will keep momentum.  If they get a network broadcast partner, I think that could help lead to OWGR points.  Which I think could lead to more expansion, basically in a few years (2024, 2025) I could see where LIV will have 28 week schedule, 24 teams and the 12 teams playing each event will rotate among the 14 weeks they are contracted for.  Wouldn’t surprise me if this happens you end up with 60-70 of the top 100 in LIV.  This timeframe roughly coincides with a lot of these initial signees 4 year contracts basically coming to an end. Could be sooner if the lesser names currently only received 2 year deals.

[PorkChopExpress]

Sorry Britney, bubba going gover

[tiderider]

3 hours ago, Dicka said:

Still pretty telling that the only players LIV seems to be able to recruit are either washed up, over the hill group that know they can no longer compete against the current younger crop, the banged up injured guys that are taking the money knowing they don't have much time left...or just the players so unppular on Tour they'll no longer be missed. 

and if they have teams, they'll eventually probably have extra members that can be subbed in our out every now & then for a tournament, cause spend that money ... and the captains will pick each tournament's team ... so phil will be gambling with people's playing time ... 

 

should work out great ... 

[Stevens24]

6 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

How many guys have PGA Tour playing privileges this year ? How many have conditional status ? If you look carefully, there are alternates for every regular Tour event and as well as Monday qualifiers. How do you think some of those players would work their way into the top 125 if those events didn't exist ? Should they be relegated to the KF Tour forever just because some viewers don't want to watch them ? Where do you think Scheffler, Zalatoris, Koepka played before hitting the big tour ? 

I don't need a top 30-60 player event every weekend and the top players take time off anyway.  

 

Some days the Yankees play the Astros - other days the Yankees play the Athletics. Not every game is a top talent game. 

 

 But if you are a Yankees fan you do not care because your stars are on the Yankees. Now if the Yankee's decides to play their triple A team against the A’s that would be an equivalent argument.

And Cantlay said the quiet part out loud,” If you play professionally you play for money”

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Stevens24

[idrive]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Must be a rumor - how would they possibly pay Brian Gay, D.J. Trahan, and Greg Chalmers ? 

 

What about Bill Murray to complete the clown show?

[Tennis19]

3 hours ago, Dicka said:

Still pretty telling that the only players LIV seems to be able to recruit are either washed up, over the hill group that know they can no longer compete against the current younger crop, the banged up injured guys that are taking the money knowing they don't have much time left...or just the players so unppular on Tour they'll no longer be missed. 

 

year end ranking for 2021... 2 dj, 7 bryson, 8 oosthuizen, 10 brooks, 12 ancer, 19 reed.... and others.. so ur telling me in 7 months these guys all of the sudden are washed up and stand no chance of winning again.  was speith wash up when his ranking dropped to 90 2 years ago? they also got 2 highly ranked amateurs in puig, and chacarra. also piot, the most recent us am winner. swafford def not a house hold name but he won earlier this year at amex with a deep field.

 

nobody is saying liv has better players than the pgat.  but to say they no longer can compete against the current younger crop is foolish.  

[mitchl]

10 hours ago, aus10KC said:

 

https://www.livgolf.com/news/liv-golf-announces-2023-league-launch-48-players-12-established-teams-14-events

 

My favorite part of it is this.

 

"LIV Golf League players are expected to compete in numerous International Series tournaments, bringing the world’s top players to locations such as Thailand, England, Korea, Vietnam, the Middle East, Indonesia, China, Singapore, Hong Kong and new locations across the Americas and Europe."

Wow.   So DJ who has only played 20 events a year, mostly in the US will be playing 14 LIV events, + what, 4 more Asian events, and 4 majors?  And all over the world?   22 events, and lots of international.   That won’t get tiring at all!   A far cry from the 8 events he was so happy about a couple months ago!

 

also there are two intl series events in August.   Wonder if any LIV’s will be in that.

[theodoreb]

7 hours ago, Shortgamemagic said:

Say loose for lose once it’s an autocorrect. Twice in the same paragraph means the whole thought is invalid just like the “rumors” 😂🤓

Oh so the rumors are invalid just because you don’t like them and they have mostly come true? 

[theodoreb]

5 hours ago, Tennis19 said:

 

liv haters love their pgat players until they leave for liv.  i can see this in the near future.

hideki "outside of japan, do the casual fan even know who he is"

smith  "lucky to have won the open, goofy haircut, he wont be missed"

cantlay "he can win all the fedex championship he wants, but he has done nothing in the majors"

 

 

You seem to make excuses for every golfer that leaves. If they all leave the pga tour and join liv, who will you bash then?

[theodoreb]

5 hours ago, Dicka said:

Still pretty telling that the only players LIV seems to be able to recruit are either washed up, over the hill group that know they can no longer compete against the current younger crop, the banged up injured guys that are taking the money knowing they don't have much time left...or just the players so unppular on Tour they'll no longer be missed. 

Clearly your missing the point. They are recruiting players that have the most fams and the largest name recognition globally. Most casual watchers of tv golf have zero clue who scheffler, finau, cantlay, cam or xander are but they certainly will tune in to see Phil, DJ, koepka and bubba. It’s not about the current top 10 but about golfers that draw a crowd and the current top 10 does not do that besides Rory.

[dalehead]

13 hours ago, ChipStrokes said:

the what-ifs are getting a little ridiculous, on both sides of the aisle here.

 

if the moral upper hand is the card the protestors are playing, crashing the gates with a hostile protest kind of undermines any credibility they might have. 

Gate crashing? Hostile protest? Not a smart way to do it. Have your people buy a ticket and once inside pull out your signs and just peacefully walk around. Have some others ready with their cameras to video them be escorted out by security. Provide the local TV stations with the video of 9/11 families being thrown out. Also plaster it on social media. Kinda sportswashing in reverse.

[jmck]

3 hours ago, subrew said:

 

There are two series under the LIV banner.  They are poorly named, and poorly informed to the general public  This is not opinion.    

 

The INTERNATIONAL Series is the series that has held two events (sorta three, maybe) thus far, with two more planned in August.  That is the "feeder" series that got mentioned in the LIV press release today, that appears to be new "news" to most people following LIV.  But the INTERNATIONAL Series has been planned since last year, when LIV invested in the Asian Tour.  There was the INTERNATIONAL Series Thailand event in March, and the INTERNATIONAL Series England event in early June.  Technically, the PIF Saudi INTERNATIONAL held in February, that Harnold Varner III won fell under that too.  Those events earned OWGR points, being hosted under the Asian Tour.  There are two more INTERNATIONAL Series events scheduled in August, Singapore and Korea iirc.  The plan is to expand that to a dozen or so events in 2023, and use it for relegation.  That was part of the press release today.

 

Thailand:  

http://www.owgr.com/en/Events/EventResult.aspx?eventid=9426

 

England:

http://www.owgr.com/en/Events/EventResult.aspx?eventid=9540

 

The full Asian Tour Schedule, showing the INTERNATIONAL Series events:

 

https://asiantour.com/schedule

 

 

The LIV INVITATIONAL events are the ones held in London and Portland, and now NJ.  Those were scheduled much later than the INTERNATIONAL Series events, and has been pointed out, they just recently applied for OWGR points.

 

I'm not making an opinion call.  People just don't seem to understand the structure of the two different event types, and how the INTERNATIONAL and INVITATIONAL events work together.  Mostly because LIV did a terrible job of discussing it, but also because when it was talked about, it got drowned out by the other 99.9999% of LIV news.

Lol, that’s the Asian Tour with a little LIV money sprinkled on top. It’s not a LIV event getting OWGR points, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

[bobfoster]

I think the Saudis should pay a billion dollars to every PGA golfer to join their tour, and give them a yacht and a puppy.

 

I mean, why not take their ultimate value proposition to the logical extreme? Would just be a rounding error to the House of Saud. Golf isn't about the game, it is just sheer money, right? 

 

I mean, if you're going to buy an entire global sport, just buy it and get it over with for goodness sake. Heck, give a half billion to the USGA, R&A, the PGA and Augusta, and you could own the majors. Fans would have the incredible opportunity to see the golfers you and Norman decided we should see. 

 

Would make me slightly sad, as I wouldn't be watching pro golf any more (no real interest in seeing three day silly season shotgun starts with YouTube graphics on Trump courses), but actually not that big of a deal. 

 

I have a love affair with this game. Will play it every weekend. Certainly won't watch it if golf broadcasts turn into this freakish TikTok Instsaidiot LIV garbage, but not a big deal. 

 

Was online tonight, not following some LIV player's Twitter feed (full of such breathless excitement about how amazing it is), but booking a Sunday tee time. 

 

May or may not watch golf in the future. But will play it 'till the day I die.

[Tennis19]

1 hour ago, theodoreb said:

You seem to make excuses for every golfer that leaves. If they all leave the pga tour and join liv, who will you bash then?

myself included, i havent seen any pro liv guys bash the current pgat guys. nobody is saying, so and so is dumb for not going to liv to collect the huge payday. i enjoy watching golf.  pga, lpga, youtube golf etc... i understand the shotgun start, 48 player field with no cut line is for everyone.. i happen to like it.  ill admit, i was rooting for the liv guys at the open.  made watching the open more enjoyable.   

[Holy Moses]

6 hours ago, aus10KC said:

 

Television is so old school, LIV is innovative. Do you think the preteens watch TV? No, they watch youtube and tiktok and that is what LIV is going after, you have to think down the road big picture.

LIV wants a TV deal. They have offered to pay Fox to broadcast events, but Fox hasn't said yes yet. 

[avrag]

10 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

You said ... 

 

I wish everybody involved would see and understand this perspective of somebody who is simply a fan of golf and wants to see events with the best possible fields at least eight or ten times a year.

 

A link was provided that gave you strength of field in all pro golf tournaments, not just American. It so happens that the best players play most of the time in the U.S. And then you made another derogatory comment about tournament sponsor names. Happens all the time in sporting events - fortunately, the history/legacy of a golf tournament is not lost b/c a different company picked up the sponsorship. The Masters used to be know as the Augusta National Invitation Tournament. Should we name it back so we don't lose those early years ? 

 

Now you make a comment about the limited fields of the Fedex Cup which include the best 70 / 30 players on the PGA Tour for the year. You want the best - you have them. 

 

And to be honest, I can't figure out what exactly you want so I think we're done here ... 

 

So let's simplfiy it:
I was talking about the majors primarily and then also to a lesser extent the WGCs, because they are already pretty LIVy anway. 8 tournaments per year with the best possible fields, no matter where the players play the rest of the year.
The majors have nothing to do with the tours, and yet the push to ban LIV players from them is very strong at the moment, which I don't like one bit. 
If the players, who play LIV golf all the time and nothing else, can't compete any more, it will sort itself out over time anyway.
The WGCs at the moment are events of all professional tours. I would like to keep it that way, and LIV is a professional tour.

Again, if the LIV players aren't competitive, there are ways to sort itself out over time.
I have just read Dan Rapaport's latest article on Golf Digest online. According to that, LIV plans to play all 14 events next year with the same 48 players. I am not the least bit interested in that, and I can't imagine it will be a success with golf fans in general.
But there are still players in that field I would like to see compete in the tournaments I like to wtach. That is the simplest way I can put it. Whether it works by letting the qualifying criteria they have already met in the past still be valid (which would be the right thing to do anyway) or it works by giving them wildcards like it has been done before (especially on the European Tour), I don't care. I am talking purely from a fan's persepctive, who likes to watch certain tournaments on TV and who would really miss about 10 or 12 players who are now on LIV.