LIV Tour Discussion Thread (* NO POLITICS *)

Dutch1008 · February 24

2 hours ago, CDM said:

Not sure where 2 trillon came from? Try like 4 times that.

https://www.google.com/search?q=aramco+market+cap&rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS988US988&oq=aramaco+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDwgCEAAYChiDARixAxiABDIGCAAQRRg5Mg8IARAAGAoYgwEYsQMYgAQyDwgCEAAYChiDARixAxiABDIPCAMQABgKGIMBGLEDGIAEMg8IBBAAGAoYgwEYsQMYgAQyDwgFEC4YChivARjHARiABDIPCAYQLhgKGK8BGMcBGIAEMg8IBxAAGAoYgwEYsQMYgAQyCQgIEAAYChiABDIPCAkQLhgKGK8BGMcBGIAE0gEINTU2NmowajeoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Edit: link was not working

You may want to convert SAR to USD big guy.

1 SAR = 0.27 USD therefore $7.74T SAR = $2.1T USD

bscinstnct · February 24

3 hours ago, CDM said:

Not sure where 2 trillon came from? Try like 4 times that.

https://www.google.com/search?q=aramco+market+cap&rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS988US988&oq=aramaco+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDwgCEAAYChiDARixAxiABDIGCAAQRRg5Mg8IARAAGAoYgwEYsQMYgAQyDwgCEAAYChiDARixAxiABDIPCAMQABgKGIMBGLEDGIAEMg8IBBAAGAoYgwEYsQMYgAQyDwgFEC4YChivARjHARiABDIPCAYQLhgKGK8BGMcBGIAEMg8IBxAAGAoYgwEYsQMYgAQyCQgIEAAYChiABDIPCAkQLhgKGK8BGMcBGIAE0gEINTU2NmowajeoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Edit: link was not working

I see plenty on published valuations for Aramco of 2-3 billion

However you slice it, the posted 160 billion in profit last years. Apple did 100 billion by itself.

Plus look at @ahenderX post, they have tons of projects they are pouring tens of billions into.

They watch every dime and you can bet it hurts to hand Rahmbo 500MM when the tour was giving him….zero

Im just sayin

If they knew, and McKinsey knew, they needed to sign the top 12 in the world to be successful

Why didn’t they do it?

For 25 Billon they could have just signed the whole top 20 and taken the whole game

Why subject themselves to this level of failure if money is no object?

Edited February 24 by bscinstnct

ahenderX · February 24

3 hours ago, CDM said:

Not sure where 2 trillon came from? Try like 4 times that.

https://www.google.com/search?q=aramco+market+cap&rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS988US988&oq=aramaco+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDwgCEAAYChiDARixAxiABDIGCAAQRRg5Mg8IARAAGAoYgwEYsQMYgAQyDwgCEAAYChiDARixAxiABDIPCAMQABgKGIMBGLEDGIAEMg8IBBAAGAoYgwEYsQMYgAQyDwgFEC4YChivARjHARiABDIPCAYQLhgKGK8BGMcBGIAEMg8IBxAAGAoYgwEYsQMYgAQyCQgIEAAYChiABDIPCAkQLhgKGK8BGMcBGIAE0gEINTU2NmowajeoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Edit: link was not working

Read the article again. It’s not US dollars. 7.74T SAR is about $2T.

Edited February 24 by ahenderX

scotee · February 24

On 2/22/2024 at 4:59 PM, stinger_gc said:

No. The article just says that most likely outcome is the 2 entities will remain separate but won’t overlap on the calendar.

You might be right but it seems to me that after the rumored no more poaching agreement was violated that there is no deal.

iBanesto · February 24

Sergio Garcia playing Rick Shiels.

Garcia with his patented "Hehehehe..."

ahenderX · February 24

Golf Monthly - DeChambeau Says LIV Has 'Fulfilled Every Single Criteria' For OWGR Points

From a Fairway to Heaven Podcast he stated - "They said ‘you need certain requirements’, we have fulfilled all those requirements, despite what everybody thinks. If you go look at their handbook, we have fulfilled every single criteria. It’s been over two years now. What’s going on guys?"

I think we all know what's going on...

stinger_gc · February 24

8 hours ago, scotee said:

You might be right but it seems to me that after the rumored no more poaching agreement was violated that there is no deal.

The “No poaching clause” was dropped in July.

https://apnews.com/article/liv-golf-pga-tour-justice-department-saudi-arabia-74e7cfd0d7b1527c98862133d1ead56b#:~:text=Sports-,PGA Tour and Saudi wealth fund drop poaching,agreement at Justice Department's request&text=The PGA Tour and the,the PGA Tour said Thursday.

stinger_gc · February 24

!!!

Hawkeye77 · February 24

5 hours ago, iBanesto said:

Sergio Garcia playing Rick Shiels.

Garcia with his patented "Hehehehe..."

Felt bad for Shiels - worst he's ever played in one of his 10 shot matches by far, had nothing, absolutely nothing so kind of dampened the vibe a bit. Wasn't going to watch and not a particular fan of Sergio, but he was gracious and seemed genuine. It was a long course, playing longer with the conditions and the extremely fast greens.

freeze16172002 · February 24

21 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

That all hinges on the PIF. Yasir could keep throwing money at a failed product or he could pull the plug tomorrow. The funding for LIV is the drop in the ocean for pif

That is not the point, they keep throwing money at it to get where? They will never make a profit there isnt enough money in golf to cover LIV's cost and they knew that going into it.... So what was the purpose? To start a golf league spending way more than they would ever see in return? Or to bully the PGAT into making a deal? It has to be the second, the first one makes zero sense. If that PGAT deal goes away, now they are aimlessly throwing money away for no reason, no goal. You might think the money is endless but its not. You want to be the guy who explains to The Kingdom why they are spending billions for no reason now?

NV825 · February 24

1 hour ago, freeze16172002 said:

That is not the point, they keep throwing money at it to get where? They will never make a profit there isnt enough money in golf to cover LIV's cost and they knew that going into it.... So what was the purpose? To start a golf league spending way more than they would ever see in return? Or to bully the PGAT into making a deal? It has to be the second, the first one makes zero sense. If that PGAT deal goes away, now they are aimlessly throwing money away for no reason, no goal. You might think the money is endless but its not. You want to be the guy who explains to The Kingdom why they are spending billions for no reason now?

What would be funny is if this is a huge ploy with the PIF spending billions just for the main goal to get Al-Rumayyan that Augusta National membership.

tatertot · February 24

2 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

!!!

So ... LIV is all about "team golf", unless they're not. Feels like this cheapens the brand and dilutes it's message. Why couldn't they hold a special draft and cut somebody?

betarhoalphadelta · February 24

A little story about just how much people think about LIV...

My son is a golfer. He's 16 and plays on his HS golf team. He is interested in pro golf; he actually was at the final round of the Genesis last week with his grandpa, and he'll be volunteering at the Hoag Classic here in a few weeks.

My wife is not a golfer. But she got into Full Swing, she watches tournaments, she's gotten to know all the big name players, etc. She's excited about the return of Full Swing season 2. She's certainly not "plugged in", but the Google algorithm has picked up on this enough that golf news does make its way into her news feed.

My son got a subscription to Golf Magazine from an aunt for Christmas. Last night was the first time he's gotten a chance to crack the first issue he was sent.

My wife and I were prepping dinner, and he comes into the kitchen. "Wait, Dad, did Jon Rahm sign with LIV?" My wife. "WHAT?! Jon Rahm, really! Wow, I never thought he'd sell out."

Me: "Uhh, yeah... That happened ~3 months ago. He's already played several LIV tournaments. How is it that neither of you heard anything about this?" I was shocked. I couldn't believe neither of them had heard anything about this.

So, over the past month and a half, with all the PGA Tournaments that I've put on the TV, with my son attending a PGAT signature event as a spectator, at no point were my wife or son asking "where's Jon Rahm?"

Puts in perspective just how much any individual golfer not named Tiger moves the needle...

Golferpaul · February 24

On 2/16/2024 at 12:57 PM, smashdn said:

The PGAT ratings analysis people have indicated that, outside of Tiger, who is contending has little impact on viewership.

I find that hard to believe. I watch much more golf when my handful of pro golf stars are playing and Tiger is not on my list.

bekgolf · February 24

4 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

That is not the point, they keep throwing money at it to get where? They will never make a profit there isnt enough money in golf to cover LIV's cost and they knew that going into it.... So what was the purpose? To start a golf league spending way more than they would ever see in return? Or to bully the PGAT into making a deal? It has to be the second, the first one makes zero sense. If that PGAT deal goes away, now they are aimlessly throwing money away for no reason, no goal. You might think the money is endless but its not. You want to be the guy who explains to The Kingdom why they are spending billions for no reason now?

I think it's still in play due to spite. Now where is that Seinfeld meme about spite?

Pops99 · February 24

7 hours ago, ahenderX said:

Golf Monthly - DeChambeau Says LIV Has 'Fulfilled Every Single Criteria' For OWGR Points

From a Fairway to Heaven Podcast he stated - "They said ‘you need certain requirements’, we have fulfilled all those requirements, despite what everybody thinks. If you go look at their handbook, we have fulfilled every single criteria. It’s been over two years now. What’s going on guys?"

I think we all know what's going on...

DeChambeau is still an idiot. Confirmed.

Very appreciative of LIV taking this guy. Made him completely irrelevant and I don't have to see him try and get relief from fire ants anymore.

DrunkCaddy · February 24

On 2/23/2024 at 12:03 PM, Titleist99 said:

Just a little insight into what a real Golf investor can do:

Good read......

Golf-Loving Investor Behind Tiger Woods Deal Seeks More M&A (msn.com)

I thought the last couple of sentences in the story were most interesting. Wasn't the speculation this what the PIF was all about from the beginning ... access to the same business and corporate partners that were involved with the PGA? Once the PGA signaled that it was ok to negotiate/partner with the PIF, it gave the OK for the rest of the ecosystem to do the same.

Quote

Jeong is hopeful that the potential deal between the PGA Tour and LIV Golf can spur new interest in the sport.

“Golfers like Rory Mcllroy and Dustin Johnson have softened their views on LIV so we, too, maybe can have constructive talks with PIF near future,” he said.

StoutKing · February 24

3 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

A little story about just how much people think about LIV...

My son is a golfer. He's 16 and plays on his HS golf team. He is interested in pro golf; he actually was at the final round of the Genesis last week with his grandpa, and he'll be volunteering at the Hoag Classic here in a few weeks.

My wife is not a golfer. But she got into Full Swing, she watches tournaments, she's gotten to know all the big name players, etc. She's excited about the return of Full Swing season 2. She's certainly not "plugged in", but the Google algorithm has picked up on this enough that golf news does make its way into her news feed.

My son got a subscription to Golf Magazine from an aunt for Christmas. Last night was the first time he's gotten a chance to crack the first issue he was sent.

My wife and I were prepping dinner, and he comes into the kitchen. "Wait, Dad, did Jon Rahm sign with LIV?" My wife. "WHAT?! Jon Rahm, really! Wow, I never thought he'd sell out."

Me: "Uhh, yeah... That happened ~3 months ago. He's already played several LIV tournaments. How is it that neither of you heard anything about this?" I was shocked. I couldn't believe neither of them had heard anything about this.

So, over the past month and a half, with all the PGA Tournaments that I've put on the TV, with my son attending a PGAT signature event as a spectator, at no point were my wife or son asking "where's Jon Rahm?"

Puts in perspective just how much any individual golfer not named Tiger moves the needle...

Somebody did the research, and I forgot where I saw this but the only two guys to actually move the needle in the history of golf are Arnie and Tiger. That's it. Signing guys is pointless for numbers. Now if you just want to hurt golf and the PGA Tour then it makes sense.

Titleist99 · February 24

3 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

A little story about just how much people think about LIV...

My son is a golfer. He's 16 and plays on his HS golf team. He is interested in pro golf; he actually was at the final round of the Genesis last week with his grandpa, and he'll be volunteering at the Hoag Classic here in a few weeks.

My wife is not a golfer. But she got into Full Swing, she watches tournaments, she's gotten to know all the big name players, etc. She's excited about the return of Full Swing season 2. She's certainly not "plugged in", but the Google algorithm has picked up on this enough that golf news does make its way into her news feed.

My son got a subscription to Golf Magazine from an aunt for Christmas. Last night was the first time he's gotten a chance to crack the first issue he was sent.

My wife and I were prepping dinner, and he comes into the kitchen. "Wait, Dad, did Jon Rahm sign with LIV?" My wife. "WHAT?! Jon Rahm, really! Wow, I never thought he'd sell out."

Me: "Uhh, yeah... That happened ~3 months ago. He's already played several LIV tournaments. How is it that neither of you heard anything about this?" I was shocked. I couldn't believe neither of them had heard anything about this.

So, over the past month and a half, with all the PGA Tournaments that I've put on the TV, with my son attending a PGAT signature event as a spectator, at no point were my wife or son asking "where's Jon Rahm?"

Puts in perspective just how much any individual golfer not named Tiger moves the needle...

Here's a little secret no one ever asks about players that are not at a tournament. If it wasn't for the announcers dwelling on it, it wouldn't be an issue.

The viewing audience can only worry about the players there and not about the ones who choose to spend more time with their families.

betarhoalphadelta · February 24

1 hour ago, StoutKing said:

Somebody did the research, and I forgot where I saw this but the only two guys to actually move the needle in the history of golf are Arnie and Tiger. That's it. Signing guys is pointless for numbers. Now if you just want to hurt golf and the PGA Tour then it makes sense.

I'll be honest and say that I'm surprised Jack isn't listed with them... But I'm middle-aged (45) so he's before my time, and perhaps my view is skewed by history.

But I get the point. No individual player in the field does anything right now. Not Rahm, not Scottie, not even Rory.

If LIV literally took everyone, which I'm convinced is what they thought they'd do, they might have had something. Which is why the PGAT circled the wagons and said "It's them or us." The PGAT will restock. LIV is having to constantly INCREASE their buying price to get anyone. Eventually you'd think they'd tire of it.

Although I am sad to see Hatton go. We've got a few of the seven dwarves still around, like Dopey (Rory), but I'm a little sad to see Angry gone.

idrive · February 25

2 hours ago, StoutKing said:

Somebody did the research, and I forgot where I saw this but the only two guys to actually move the needle in the history of golf are Arnie and Tiger. That's it. Signing guys is pointless for numbers. Now if you just want to hurt golf and the PGA Tour then it makes sense.

This is/was the main drive of Normans. This is his revenge tour first and foremost.

cdnglf · February 25

14 hours ago, bekgolf said:

I think it's still in play due to spite. Now where is that Seinfeld meme about spite?

LIV, the world’s most ambitious Spite Store. That is the best and most logical explanation I’ve ever seen

leezer99 · February 25

19 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

A little story about just how much people think about LIV...

My son is a golfer. He's 16 and plays on his HS golf team. He is interested in pro golf; he actually was at the final round of the Genesis last week with his grandpa, and he'll be volunteering at the Hoag Classic here in a few weeks.

My wife is not a golfer. But she got into Full Swing, she watches tournaments, she's gotten to know all the big name players, etc. She's excited about the return of Full Swing season 2. She's certainly not "plugged in", but the Google algorithm has picked up on this enough that golf news does make its way into her news feed.

My son got a subscription to Golf Magazine from an aunt for Christmas. Last night was the first time he's gotten a chance to crack the first issue he was sent.

My wife and I were prepping dinner, and he comes into the kitchen. "Wait, Dad, did Jon Rahm sign with LIV?" My wife. "WHAT?! Jon Rahm, really! Wow, I never thought he'd sell out."

Me: "Uhh, yeah... That happened ~3 months ago. He's already played several LIV tournaments. How is it that neither of you heard anything about this?" I was shocked. I couldn't believe neither of them had heard anything about this.

So, over the past month and a half, with all the PGA Tournaments that I've put on the TV, with my son attending a PGAT signature event as a spectator, at no point were my wife or son asking "where's Jon Rahm?"

Puts in perspective just how much any individual golfer not named Tiger moves the needle...

Nearly the same scenario over here. 16 year old that plays tournament and HS golf. None of those knuckleheads ever talk about LIV players. I haven't heard my son mention Jon Rahm in months and he was a household favorite.

That being said, we do check scores after the final round to see where our friend ended up. Then I text him and tell him he needs a new putter. 😂

Dicka · February 25

On 2/24/2024 at 3:55 AM, CDM said:

If LIV folds it will because SA gets bored. The monies spent has zero impact on them...sad to say given the amount.

Which is one of my major problems with LIV. Does anyone seriously want world professional golf run by the Saudis, who could basically destroy the entire game simply because "they're bored with it"? Just look at the restrictions on current LIV players now about what they can and can't say (don't for a minute think they are free to say what the really think)...can you imagine the restrictions that would be in place if they ran the entire show.

stinger_gc · February 26

5 hours ago, Dicka said:

Which is one of my major problems with LIV. Does anyone seriously want world professional golf run by the Saudis, who could basically destroy the entire game simply because "they're bored with it"? Just look at the restrictions on current LIV players now about what they can and can't say (don't for a minute think they are free to say what the really think)...can you imagine the restrictions that would be in place if they ran the entire show.

Honestly it wouldn’t be that bad because PIF won’t poke around in the day to day affairs of the PGA Tour. PIF is invested in the following sports/teams: WWE, Boxing, Aramco is one of the main sponsors of F1, PIF owns 80% of Newcastle United and finally Ladies Golf. I’m cool with PIF having a seat at the table if it means we get all the top players back together and a better prod

idrive · February 26

Norman comes right out saying they're (liv) doing everything they can do to land Hideki.

So, what's the over under on the offer?

IMO he's 10X's the potential needle mover than anyone else they have. It would ruin my 2014

I'm guessing 600 million.

I have a good friend in Japan that I've been planning another trip to play golf with again. I've got my travel agent on the phone. Need to talk to Hideki... see if begging him in person to stay will help influence him to tell Norman to buzz off.

SMH

Greg Norman names Hideki Matsuyama as LIV Golf's next target, drops hints on ongoing negotiations - "I don't mind admitting that" (msn.com)

.

Edited February 26 by idrive
sp

bcjim · February 26

He's not worth much in the US market. Consider how many Americans know who Jon Rahm is. Whatever you think that is. Now reduce that by 80%. At least.

geauxt · February 26

2 hours ago, idrive said:

Norman comes right out saying they're (liv) doing everything they can do to land Hideki.

So, what's the over under on the offer?

IMO he's 10X's the potential needle mover than anyone else they have. It would ruin my 2014

I'm guessing 600 million.

I have a good friend in Japan that I've been planning another trip to play golf with again. I've got my travel agent on the phone. Need to talk to Hideki... see if begging him in person to stay will help influence him to tell Norman to buzz off.

SMH

Greg Norman names Hideki Matsuyama as LIV Golf's next target, drops hints on ongoing negotiations - "I don't mind admitting that" (msn.com)

.

Isn’t Hideki famously private? Or is that just with not golf-related things?

smashdn · February 26

On 2/24/2024 at 12:17 PM, Golferpaul said:

I find that hard to believe. I watch much more golf when my handful of pro golf stars are playing and Tiger is not on my list.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golf-has-become-sport-without-needle-movers-jon-rahm-nick-dunlap-rory-mcilroy

https://www.samford.edu/sports-analytics/fans/2018/The-Tiger-Effect

"2. The Tiger Effect: Love him or hate him, there is no question that Tiger Woods was the one player in the last 25 years who definitively moved the needle in golf. When Tiger was in a tournament, ratings went up. When Tiger was in contention – which was most of the time at his peak – the ratings went up even more. When Tiger stopped playing in tournaments for a variety of reasons, the ratings went down significantly, in some cases as much as 50 percent. If you rooted for him as the greatest player of a generation or against him because he won so much he was practically a dynasty, people still watched. With no Tiger these days, a lot of people stopped watching."

https://www.desertsun.com/story/sports/golf/2017/08/28/three-reasons-golfs-television-ratings-down/610417001/

stinger_gc · February 26

If I were a range goats fan I’d be embarrassed! First they trade Gooch and now this 😂

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LIV Tour Discussion Thread (* NO POLITICS *)