LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[jdl]

52 minutes ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Last post in this forum. I fear I am going to be dragged down to a low level of uniformed debate and be beaten by those with experience in said debate.

 

In Summary:

 

I cannot agree that its a fair playing field getting into the PGA Tour. More open then LIV, yes. Open, debatable. PGA Tour 10 years ago, magic. 

 

The reality is that the OWGR has been skewed. Look at how it works now - hard to debate that fact. Heavily weighted to PGA Tour performance. 

Again I argue. (read, listen, fact check) that yes for the top 10 on the Euro Tour they get to go onto the PGA Tour. Which they do as they get a solid playing category. This bleeds the European Tour of its stars so Pelley sold them down the river. You cannot replenish the talent going to the PGA Tour for the Legacy (see Money). Qualifying for the PGA Tour via Korn Ferry, Tour School etc gives you really poor events you qualify for so the PGA Tour has very subtly built in safeguards that stop anything but generational elite talent breaking into the top 60 (Similar one could argue to a rival start up tour who protects a portion of the players each year). Both tours are doing this to guarantee viewership ironically. So when I say its impossible and hundreds of thousands sure, take me on for a bit of exaggeration but lets not miss the facts. It has never been harder to come from no status to top 10 in the OWGR in the last at least 20-30 years. Will elite talents do it, yes (play better argument) but for anyone but the Ludwig Abergs of the world its not that easy. 

 

I am an international arguing against an American crown that does not see the bias towards the PGA Tour and thats ok. But we cannot factually argue that with OWGR and lack of promotion through the ranks that the next great player from ASIA, India, South Africa, Australia, Japan just isnt going to make it unless they went to college in the US and followed a very defined route to success. Even if you are a successful student athlete, it may take years of inching forward to get to the PGA Tour. This may be by design, but there is still an argument that we will no longer see the great stories of old where a player wins Q school and becomes a legend (at least, it will be a minor miracle if it does happen.). 

 

Not going to repeat data I dropped here earlier, but we need to give the world tours time to settle. Big money wants a seat at the table and it wants change. That often comes with short term losses - most are fine with this (except here on WRX) where we demand overnight miracles. 

 

Reality is, the PGA Tour has eroded its product. Asking more of sponsors and TV ratings are under strain. High level of protection for top 60 players. Liv is a startup, anything could happen but there has been a shake up. The best players will eventually get to the majors, if not the best players of today it will be the ones of tomorrow. The people running these tournaments have to eventually yield so they do not water down thier product to their financial detriment. 

 

All the arguments that this thread is turning into moral arguments are not that. They are financial arguments. Morals are dead (sure, give me hate for it - I still have them and I am struggling to be congruent with the world we live in) Financial decisions make the world turn, not moral ones. So maybe we need to save ourselves the trouble and follow the money... its driving every single move made in professional golf today. 

[Titleist99]

8 hours ago, bobfoster said:

Care to report the LIV numbers? And incidentally, YT numbers are not the same as Neilson's. I have clicked on a couple of Good Goods in the past. Watched for all of a couple minutes, then went back to Netflix. But I counted as one of those "{9 million". 

Maybe this article can help move this debate along:

 

Executive Report - By Thomas Baekdal - October 2016

A Hard Look at YouTube Views vs TV Ratings

 

Over the past week, you might have seen many of us in the media industry discuss the problem with comparing YouTube views with TV ratings. It all started after YouTube released their viewer data for the second Presidential debate, where we were told that YouTube had 124 million views.

This sounded like a lot, especially when compared to the TV ratings, which only had 65.6 million viewers. So YouTube beat TV? Right?

Well, no.

This is the common problem we have every single time we talk about viewer metrics. We are simply not measuring the same thing, nor is the baseline for the measurements in any way aligned.

-----------------------------------------

 

Not only are they measured in completely different ways, the consumption pattern is entirely different as well. There is a massive difference in intent, and recall rates between someone who just quickly come across a random video in their Facebook stream, and a 20 min video on YouTube that people have decided to sit down and watch.

 

 

Edited March 13 by Titleist99

[dcmidnight]

I don't care about the final "views" number because that's just who clicked in at some point. I think most people know that at this point in 2024.

 

I do know that when I logged into Jeddah R1 that there were between 9,000 and 14,000 live viewers. *That* number is very easy to track as you go along.

Edited March 13 by dcmidnight

[Titleist99]

4 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

I don't care about the final "views" number because that's just who clicked in at some point. I think most people know that at this point in 2024.

 

I do now that when I logged into Jeddah R1 that there were between 9,000 and 14,000 live viewers. *That* number is very easy to track as you go along.

Absolutely with the live viewers,. I also usually go by the national broadcasts because they're free to access. Those channels are accurate because they pay for the media rights.

[Shilgy]

Must be awful to live like @ewaldbeukes

 

 to be under the delusion, apparently,  that every win is a win. So the Sunshine, Euro, Asian tours…and more…apparently deserve the same ranking points as the Tour that has the best players.

 

 Makes one wonder how Aberg and the like made it to the Tour. He even claims that no one could do again what Tom Kim did ever again oh so long ago. Kim is only 21 years old…did he make it in diapers?

 

If you’re good enough there is an avenue to get there. But you don’t get  equal “win” points on the small tour’s. Should we award a World Series spot to the Little League winner in baseball?

 

 Speaking of Little League… @bscinstnct pointed out the lack of LIV interest around the world. They’re crying, or were, for points as well. Perhaps it’s the frat party atmosphere that’s turned everyone off or perhaps it’s the team aspect in an individual sport. Only a healthy Tiger, maybe, could have spiked interest for them. No other signings have done squat for them.

[bobfoster]

1 hour ago, idrive said:

Now it's Tennis.

 

Who's next?

 

I'd like to thank all those who are supporting the takeover of Professional sports.

 

The worst part?  It's the fans who have become divided that were once on the same page.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/tennis/saudi-arabia-launch-tennis-takeover-with-2bn-take-it-or-leave-it-offer/ar-BB1jLgSw?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=d1c8cb8985ca4390ad07e93acd2417e2&ei=35

 

 

I saw that article today. Appalling. 

[bobfoster]

9 hours ago, wee stones said:

I don’t watch LIV. So I’m even less concerned about their numbers.

 

And no, your click did not count as a view if you only watched a few seconds. For someone that criticized others for not knowing facts, you’re pretty destitute on the truth.

 

The YouTube algorithm is pretty complex but there are content views and ad views. The ad views are what make money and also what defines the market power of a given channel. 
 

The fact of the matter is that the market powers of those YouTube channels are more powerful than almost every single PGA Tour event. Including ‘elevated’ events.

 

 

Absolutely hilarious.

 

So then - you are comparing YT numbers to Nielson's, and on that (deeply flawed) basis - are actually going to assert that immensely more golf fans would rather watch the Good Good guys and other golf "influencers" than Scottie and Rory? Seriously? Do you get how ridiculous this sounds? How "destitute on the truth"?

[bekgolf]

1 hour ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Last post in this forum. I fear I am going to be dragged down to a low level of uniformed debate and be beaten by those with experience in said debate.

 

In Summary:

 

I cannot agree that its a fair playing field getting into the PGA Tour. More open then LIV, yes. Open, debatable. PGA Tour 10 years ago, magic. 

 

The reality is that the OWGR has been skewed. Look at how it works now - hard to debate that fact. Heavily weighted to PGA Tour performance. 

Again I argue. (read, listen, fact check) that yes for the top 10 on the Euro Tour they get to go onto the PGA Tour. Which they do as they get a solid playing category. This bleeds the European Tour of its stars so Pelley sold them down the river. You cannot replenish the talent going to the PGA Tour for the Legacy (see Money). Qualifying for the PGA Tour via Korn Ferry, Tour School etc gives you really poor events you qualify for so the PGA Tour has very subtly built in safeguards that stop anything but generational elite talent breaking into the top 60 (Similar one could argue to a rival start up tour who protects a portion of the players each year). Both tours are doing this to guarantee viewership ironically. So when I say its impossible and hundreds of thousands sure, take me on for a bit of exaggeration but lets not miss the facts. It has never been harder to come from no status to top 10 in the OWGR in the last at least 20-30 years. Will elite talents do it, yes (play better argument) but for anyone but the Ludwig Abergs of the world its not that easy. 

 

I am an international arguing against an American crown that does not see the bias towards the PGA Tour and thats ok. But we cannot factually argue that with OWGR and lack of promotion through the ranks that the next great player from ASIA, India, South Africa, Australia, Japan just isnt going to make it unless they went to college in the US and followed a very defined route to success. Even if you are a successful student athlete, it may take years of inching forward to get to the PGA Tour. This may be by design, but there is still an argument that we will no longer see the great stories of old where a player wins Q school and becomes a legend (at least, it will be a minor miracle if it does happen.). 

 

Not going to repeat data I dropped here earlier, but we need to give the world tours time to settle. Big money wants a seat at the table and it wants change. That often comes with short term losses - most are fine with this (except here on WRX) where we demand overnight miracles. 

 

Reality is, the PGA Tour has eroded its product. Asking more of sponsors and TV ratings are under strain. High level of protection for top 60 players. Liv is a startup, anything could happen but there has been a shake up. The best players will eventually get to the majors, if not the best players of today it will be the ones of tomorrow. The people running these tournaments have to eventually yield so they do not water down thier product to their financial detriment. 

 

All the arguments that this thread is turning into moral arguments are not that. They are financial arguments. Morals are dead (sure, give me hate for it - I still have them and I am struggling to be congruent with the world we live in) Financial decisions make the world turn, not moral ones. So maybe we need to save ourselves the trouble and follow the money... its driving every single move made in professional golf today. 

 

Ok, you are mad about a lot of things.

 

Are the courses for other tournaments that get less OWGR set up the same as they are for a PGA tournament?  Is the quality of talent the same? 

 

Am I supposed to feel bad because the bulk of professional golf fans are concentrated in certain areas?  Pro golf is concentrated in areas that sponsors can advertise to and get a return on the ad budget.  It's how professional sports work.  Without the ad money there are no professional sports. 

 

The PGA Tour has done a great job at developing a means to identify talent and a pipeline to get that talent into professional golf.  Why is that bad?

 

If someone can do it better then do it.  Develop talent and direct them to their form of professional golf, it's not something that happened overnight, it took generations to get golf to where it is.  If it's going to be Liv then set up the local and regional events, sponsor them, get that talent developed for tournament golf and direct it to their golf league or figure out another way to do it. 

 

Invest a few generations into developing it and stop complaining that someone beat them to it over a half century ago.

[jdl]

2 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

 

Again I argue. (read, listen, fact check) that yes for the top 10 on the Euro Tour they get to go onto the PGA Tour. Which they do as they get a solid playing category. This bleeds the European Tour of its stars so Pelley sold them down the river. You cannot replenish the talent going to the PGA Tour for the Legacy (see Money).

 

 

Promotion from the DP Tour to PGA Tour is BAD! Robs the DP Tour of stars!

 

2 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

 

I am an international arguing against an American crown that does not see the bias towards the PGA Tour and thats ok. But we cannot factually argue that with OWGR and lack of promotion through the ranks that the next great player from ASIA, India, South Africa, Australia, Japan just isnt going to make it unless they went to college in the US and followed a very defined route to success. Even if you are a successful student athlete, it may take years of inching forward to get to the PGA Tour. This may be by design, but there is still an argument that we will no longer see the great stories of old where a player wins Q school and becomes a legend (at least, it will be a minor miracle if it does happen.). 

 

 

We need more promotion from other Tours!

 

2 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

the PGA Tour has very subtly built in safeguards that stop anything but generational elite talent breaking into the top 60

 

Reality is, the PGA Tour has eroded its product. Asking more of sponsors and TV ratings are under strain. High level of protection for top 60 players.

 

 

Edited March 13 by jdl

[CDM]

15 hours ago, idrive said:

Really liked Scotty's reply about they're (liv guys) the ones that left. He very plainly put it all in perspective.

 

Wish I had the exact quote for those that missed it.

 

Here is the statement. 

 

On one hand he says if they want to go he will not tell them to stay if it is best for them and then blames them for the splinter in golf...?  

 

“If guys want to go take the money and leave, then that’s their decision. I’m not going to sit here and tell guys not to take hundreds of millions of dollars,” Scheffler said.

 

“If that’s what they think is best for their life, then go do it. I’m not going to sit here and force guys to stay on our Tour. But at the end of the day, this is where I want to be, and we’re continuing to grow what we’re doing, and what they’re doing is not really a concern to me.

 

“We had a Tour. We were all together, and the people that left are no longer here. At the end of the day, that’s where the splintering comes from.”

Edited March 13 by CDM

[CDM]

4 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Worldwide Google data on LIV Golf 

 

The 5 year chart shows that unfortunately, even witn Rahmbo and constantly signing bigger stars

 

we see lower and lower peaks of interest…up to now, of course

 

That huge spike is from back in 2022 when LIV first was announced. The next spike period was the 2023 season. 
 

The current spike is 2024. Remains to be seen if it will gain momentum as the season progresses…or just meanders and fades

 

 

 

Interesting data.  👍

 

Jay M, Brandle, and others yesterday commented on how golf is booming  but all them noted that TV ratings are down for the PGAT. I was really surprised that Brandle noted that live last night.  They "debated" why.      

 

Based on your map it shows to be mainly the US/CANADA area.   Jay noted they have 47 other broadcast partners outside the US (made it sound that way).

 

McGinley noted that LIV data is debatable, that it looks low as it does not take account all regions.   That the product is not the greatest but that LIV has some advantages over PGAT.  I think he meant purely outside the US when making the comment though.  Noting the PGAT is trying to copy the "more shots" shown and a few other things LIV are doing.  Which oddly even Jay noted in the presser of things they are hearing from the fans are some aspects LIV is doing.  Not well....but doing it and fans want it.

[wedgegame]

10 hours ago, wee stones said:

The 2024 Arnold Palmer invitational averaged 1.7M viewers. https://www.sportskeeda.com/golf/news-2024-arnold-palmer-invitational-final-round-ratings-dip-30-compared-previous-year-s-finish#
 

Good Good

Grant Horvat

Busta Jack

Bob Does Sports

Shiels

etc.

 

have all produced content that regularly dwarfs those numbers. 9 Million people watched the Good Good major in the UK. That’s on par with the Masters.

 

Like you said, the numbers are public. You should try reading them.

 

Check out this article  for more about how YouTube counts views, but the barrier to be counted is not very high.  Also videos live "forever" on Youtube, so a more accurate way to compare would be to only count views for the first 4 days of posting and only for a time window equivalent to the tour's TV time window.  Ultimately comparing YouTube views to Neilson ratings is a silly exercise, and nothing of value will be gained from doing it. 

 

I do agree with you that the tour could learn a thing or two from the popular golf YouTube channels.  Putting the right players true personality more on display could help drive more interest in their product, but it would have to be done on the appropriate channels.  I certainly wouldn't want it done during tournament coverage as there is already enough fluff that distracts from the actual golf being played.

 

LIV has tried to be more active in this regard, but it seems their efforts have missed the mark for the most part.

[wedgegame]

8 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of players playing on the Euro, Challenge, Sunshine, Asian, Aus, KF etc tours where its almost impossible to get into the new PGA Tour closed shop where all the points are. Name a tour outside the PGA Tour, you just cant get on. What Tom Kim did a few years ago, cannot be done today. He would still be playing in Korea.  

Why can't every AAU star basketball player play in the NBA?  Why can't all the USFL players get NFL contracts?  Why can't all the players playing in League Two get contracts to play in the Premier League?  Simple answer, they just aren't good enough.

 

Two of the largest golf tournaments in the world have open qualifying don't they?  Why don't these undiscovered mega talents just qualify and earn exemptions into other tournaments?  

 

Every other sport has a tiered system and the talent usually ends up where it belongs.  Why is golf any different?  Like or not the PGAT is the premier golf league.  Hell, the Sunshine Tour's motto is "Greatness BEGINS here".  Even they acknowledge they are not the top tier of their sport, so why should they be given equal points to more competitive tours?

[Titleist99]

15 minutes ago, wedgegame said:

 

Check out this article  for more about how YouTube counts views, but the barrier to be counted is not very high.  Also videos live "forever" on Youtube, so a more accurate way to compare would be to only count views for the first 4 days of posting and only for a time window equivalent to the tour's TV time window.  Ultimately comparing YouTube views to Neilson ratings is a silly exercise, and nothing of value will be gained from doing it. 

 

I do agree with you that the tour could learn a thing or two from the popular golf YouTube channels.  Putting the right players true personality more on display could help drive more interest in their product, but it would have to be done on the appropriate channels.  I certainly wouldn't want it done during tournament coverage as there is already enough fluff that distracts from the actual golf being played.

 

LIV has tried to be more active in this regard, but it seems their efforts have missed the mark for the most part.

"Ultimately comparing YouTube views to Neilson ratings is a silly exercise, and nothing of value will be gained from doing it. "

 

Apparently, there's a lot of silliness going on in this thread. 😂

[HulaGolfMom]

I love when people like @ewaldbeukes post that they are the smart ones and the rest of us are stupid and then doesn’t know the difference between “then” and “than”.

Edited March 13 by HulaGolfMom

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Ok, you are mad about a lot of things.

 

Are the courses for other tournaments that get less OWGR set up the same as they are for a PGA tournament?  Is the quality of talent the same? 

 

Am I supposed to feel bad because the bulk of professional golf fans are concentrated in certain areas?  Pro golf is concentrated in areas that sponsors can advertise to and get a return on the ad budget.  It's how professional sports work.  Without the ad money there are no professional sports. 

 

The PGA Tour has done a great job at developing a means to identify talent and a pipeline to get that talent into professional golf.  Why is that bad?

 

If someone can do it better then do it.  Develop talent and direct them to their form of professional golf, it's not something that happened overnight, it took generations to get golf to where it is.  If it's going to be Liv then set up the local and regional events, sponsor them, get that talent developed for tournament golf and direct it to their golf league or figure out another way to do it. 

 

Invest a few generations into developing it and stop complaining that someone beat them to it over a half century ago.

Now, if the PGAT can only figure out a way to retain said talent.

 

Maybe the tour could put some stipulations on that earning assurance program. It wouldn't affect the ones on the tour now, but it would hold the youngster coming in.

 

That's off the top of my head. surely greater minds can come up with something.

 

The PGAT should be compensated for poaching. IMO

[ahenderX]

1 hour ago, HulaGolfMom said:

I love when people like @ewaldbeukes post that they are the smart ones and the rest of us are stupid and then don’t know the difference between “then” and “than”.

Try living with a wife who was taught grammar by nuns.  I was raised by wolves.

[HulaGolfMom]

35 minutes ago, ahenderX said:

Try living with a wife who was taught grammar by nuns.  I was raised by wolves.

lol, and now I just saw my grammar error. I guess English is hard.

Edited March 13 by HulaGolfMom

[notsohard]

5 hours ago, MaineMariner said:

LIV's biggest problem is that we're in their third season and still nobody is talking about the golf being played on their tour. There's plenty of talk about the rivalry with the PGA Tour, the money, the next player to jump over from the PGAT, the various controversies... but the golf is very rarely an actual topic of discussion or interest. That's doubly or triply true of the team performance - I don't see any buy in from fans on that front whatsoever.

 

Anyone who has followed a new sports league or new franchise knows that this is a tough battle to fight, but at least most leagues and teams have captive audiences in the form of the people living where the teams are located.

In your little city? 

You must have the data for the rest of the world......

[billyspan]

On 3/12/2024 at 10:33 PM, bobfoster said:

Care to report the LIV numbers? And incidentally, YT numbers are not the same as Neilson's. I have clicked on a couple of Good Goods in the past. Watched for all of a couple minutes, then went back to Netflix. But I counted as one of those "{9 million". 

 

SUNDAY -

 

NBC averaged a 1.4 and 2.29 million for the final round of the Arnold Palmer Invitational — down 32% in ratings and 30% in viewership from last year (2.0, 3.26M) and the least-watched final round of the event since 2017 (2.12M).

 

LIV Golf on CW had a 0.12 and 208,000.

[SnowbirdTom]

2 minutes ago, billyspan said:

 

SUNDAY -

 

NBC averaged a 1.4 and 2.29 million for the final round of the Arnold Palmer Invitational — down 32% in ratings and 30% in viewership from last year (2.0, 3.26M) and the least-watched final round of the event since 2017 (2.12M).

 

LIV Golf on CW had a 0.12 and 208,000.

Well, those numbers are comparable, right? 🙄

[One Putter]

Also missing the context of last Sunday being a runaway victory with no real drama.

[betarhoalphadelta]

21 hours ago, CDM said:

 

Here is the statement. 

 

On one hand he says if they want to go he will not tell them to stay if it is best for them and then blames them for the splinter in golf...?  

 

“If guys want to go take the money and leave, then that’s their decision. I’m not going to sit here and tell guys not to take hundreds of millions of dollars,” Scheffler said.

 

“If that’s what they think is best for their life, then go do it. I’m not going to sit here and force guys to stay on our Tour. But at the end of the day, this is where I want to be, and we’re continuing to grow what we’re doing, and what they’re doing is not really a concern to me.

 

“We had a Tour. We were all together, and the people that left are no longer here. At the end of the day, that’s where the splintering comes from.”

 

Yes. The statements aren't really in conflict, actually. 

 

The fans want to see the best players playing, together. That's what we had before LIV. Some guys left to go to LIV, and now they've splintered the sport creating two competing tours and diluting the talent pool. So far, it doesn't seem like the fans have rewarded that move by watching that other tour. 

 

If you have to ask who caused this situation, wouldn't you blame the ones who changed it (LIV), rather than the ones who chose to stay on the established tour which already had what the fans wanted? 

 

The rest of it is that he's saying that he knows that those other players are adults, and are doing what they believe is best for themselves and their families, and he respects their right to make that decision.

 

But those decisions are exactly WHY fans are not getting what they want. If you want to lay the "blame", lay it there. 

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, billyspan said:

 

SUNDAY -

 

NBC averaged a 1.4 and 2.29 million for the final round of the Arnold Palmer Invitational — down 32% in ratings and 30% in viewership from last year (2.0, 3.26M) and the least-watched final round of the event since 2017 (2.12M).

 

LIV Golf on CW had a 0.12 and 208,000.

Sunday 2023 was a dog fight coming down the stretch. Sunday 2024 was a forgone conclusion that Scheffler would seal the victory. IMO

 

~After LIV benefited from earlier tournaments rain delays their CW coverage didn't attract added viewers. 

[Cactus Jack]

For all the talk of LIV ratings, I was curious if the Asian Tour has seen a lift due to the International series. The LIV/Asian Tour relationship does seem to have expanded Asian Tour viewership reach exponentially to over 420 million viewers in the APAC region. Talk about an enormous growth opportunity and untapped TAM.  

 

One of the critical factors in the rise of the popularity of golf in the region is that Asian consumers start to turn to leisure activities as they get richer. The number of courses tripled in less than a decade in China alone.

 

https://playtoday.co/blog/stats/golf-viewership-statistics/

 

Also, I found the following article to be very good. I had no prior knowledge of the Asian Tour, so to learn about their growth, LIV/PIF backing, and the DPWT/PGAT killed their relationship & shut them out was interesting. I imagine the influx of LIV players has elevated their events and hopefully set them on a path for future success. LIV might be onto something with this partnership. 

 

https://www.todays-golfer.com/news-and-events/tour-news/backed-by-liv-the-asian-tour-has-a-new-global-schedule-to-rival-the-dp-world-tour/

 

[ahenderX]

26 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

For all the talk of LIV ratings, I was curious if the Asian Tour has seen a lift due to the International series. The LIV/Asian Tour relationship does seem to have expanded Asian Tour viewership reach exponentially to over 420 million viewers in the APAC region. Talk about an enormous growth opportunity and untapped TAM.  

 

One of the critical factors in the rise of the popularity of golf in the region is that Asian consumers start to turn to leisure activities as they get richer. The number of courses tripled in less than a decade in China alone.

 

https://playtoday.co/blog/stats/golf-viewership-statistics/

 

Also, I found the following article to be very good. I had no prior knowledge of the Asian Tour, so to learn about their growth, LIV/PIF backing, and the DPWT/PGAT killed their relationship & shut them out was interesting. I imagine the influx of LIV players has elevated their events and hopefully set them on a path for future success. LIV might be onto something with this partnership. 

 

https://www.todays-golfer.com/news-and-events/tour-news/backed-by-liv-the-asian-tour-has-a-new-global-schedule-to-rival-the-dp-world-tour/

 

LIV’s association with the International Series and Asian Tour was supposed to be fields of 144 players and include most if not all of the top LIV players. The International Series were supposed to be LIV events. The reason was to boost minimum players per event to help LIV gain access to OWGR points. Clearly this did not occur. LIV Golf has no money. Saudi Golf/PIF does. That’s where the $300 million is coming from.

[notsohard]

5 hours ago, SnowbirdTom said:

Well, those numbers are comparable, right? 🙄

Which ones?  the 32% less viewers?

 

 

 

57 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

For all the talk of LIV ratings, I was curious if the Asian Tour has seen a lift due to the International series. The LIV/Asian Tour relationship does seem to have expanded Asian Tour viewership reach exponentially to over 420 million viewers in the APAC region. Talk about an enormous growth opportunity and untapped TAM.  

 

One of the critical factors in the rise of the popularity of golf in the region is that Asian consumers start to turn to leisure activities as they get richer. The number of courses tripled in less than a decade in China alone.

 

https://playtoday.co/blog/stats/golf-viewership-statistics/

 

Also, I found the following article to be very good. I had no prior knowledge of the Asian Tour, so to learn about their growth, LIV/PIF backing, and the DPWT/PGAT killed their relationship & shut them out was interesting. I imagine the influx of LIV players has elevated their events and hopefully set them on a path for future success. LIV might be onto something with this partnership. 

 

https://www.todays-golfer.com/news-and-events/tour-news/backed-by-liv-the-asian-tour-has-a-new-global-schedule-to-rival-the-dp-world-tour/

 

Western golfing world might be waking up.

 

 

[notsohard]

28 minutes ago, ahenderX said:

LIV’s association with the International Series and Asian Tour was supposed to be fields of 144 players and include most if not all of the top LIV players. The International Series were supposed to be LIV events. The reason was to boost minimum players per event to help LIV gain access to OWGR points. Clearly this did not occur. LIV Golf has no money. Saudi Golf/PIF does. That’s where the $300 million is coming from.

LMAO.... may be time to lock this thread. 

[Titleist99]

5 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Yes. The statements aren't really in conflict, actually. 

 

The fans want to see the best players playing, together. That's what we had before LIV. Some guys left to go to LIV, and now they've splintered the sport creating two competing tours and diluting the talent pool. So far, it doesn't seem like the fans have rewarded that move by watching that other tour. 

 

If you have to ask who caused this situation, wouldn't you blame the ones who changed it (LIV), rather than the ones who chose to stay on the established tour which already had what the fans wanted? 

 

The rest of it is that he's saying that he knows that those other players are adults, and are doing what they believe is best for themselves and their families, and he respects their right to make that decision.

 

But those decisions are exactly WHY fans are not getting what they want. If you want to lay the "blame", lay it there. 

Plus, Scheffler is saying that we (PGAT) can't worry about who isn't here, despite the new narrative that everybody misses the defectors and golf can't go on if they're not in the field.🤣🤣

 

~PGAT Golf will continue despite four of five players that chose to move to leisure golf.

[ahenderX]

Just now, notsohard said:

LMAO.... may be time to lock this thread. 

Not sure what part of my post is LMAO. 

 

From Golf.com:

 

Will LIV Golf be validated by the Official World Golf Ranking? It’s an essential, if thorny, question

 

From the above article:

 

"Several other OWGR criteria relate to the scheduling and formatting of events. To be eligible for OWGR points, for instance, a tour must operate at least 10 events a year.  

 

"Those events must have a minimum purse of $50,000 (LIV clears that bar easily) and an average field size of 75 players. While LIV’s invitational events, including its inaugural tournament outside London earlier this month, are limited to 48 players, its international events will feature 144 competitors, bumping its average field size above 75, the executive said." 

 

The above "international events" were originally designated by LIV as its International Series. So, there you go LMAO.