New AMG Shallowing Video - Wow...

[Rbsiedsc]

I reached out to my coach about this and he told me this is great to go off of. Like i said prior he is trying to get my arms to drop in the downswing since they are flinging out over the ball when i rotate.

[ferrispgm]

48 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Now it’s a Schroedinger’s cat discussion?

 

Excellent!!!!!!

 

According to quantum physics is the ball really there?

 

Are we really here?

 

Is our solar system just one tiny atom in the body of some super ginormous being?

 

I bet that’s true and he for sure has to unload his trial elbow from the top or he will tear his rotator cuff and the Milky Way is in his right shoulder.   We’re screwed if he is being taught to hold lag.

 

 

If you include string theory: if an alternate you in another dimension with different physics is holding their hands up and if you in this one lower, they would balance out and you should be perfectly on plane. 

[Jim Waldron]

A lot of mis-conceptions here on both sides I think.

 

1. "Lowering" of the arms is NOT the same thing as "shallowing".

 

You can lower with no change in the shaft plane angle relative to the ground, or you can flatten that angle or "shallow" or you can steepen.

 

2. Any normal full backswing the 2D "plane" of the shaft shifts starting around waist height into a higher "plane" at the Top. This  plane shift has to reverse in Transition.

 

3. There will always be some lowering of the upper arm bones vertically in the shoulder sockets - how much depends on a. how high the arms are at the Top and b. how the golfer employs his Transition sequence and c. how open their hips and chest are during release, impact and just after and d. how much lead arm across the chest angle the golfer uses.

 

The less independent arm motion in the shoulder sockets = more lead arm across chest = the more open your body needs to be to achieve a neutral path. That will "feel" more like a pivot-driven swing. The more independent arm motion = less lead arm across the chest = the less open your body needs to be to achieve a neutral path.

 

There are pros and cons of both of those methods. Most good strikers are almost exactly in the middle of those two ends of the spectrum.

 

Momentum from a proper Pivot (including right tilt) absolutely will move the arms to lower, and that momentum will feed into right elbow opening up and later in the downswing to wrist c0ck angles opening up.

 

It's not "either/or" folks - its BOTH. 

 

You do not need to "freeze the arms to keep the hands up" and you do not need to use the arm muscles to forcefully throw or pull them down.

 

The answer is that you learn the skill of "doing nothing" with the Lever angles. Don't hold on (steering impulse) and don't throw them away (hit impulse). Maintain triangle arm pressures and grip pressure that had at Setup and  learn to master a proper Transition sequence with the various elements of the Pivot. 

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, glk said:

Gears does not measure ext/int shoulder rotation - straight from the gears creator from tyler talking withnhim - so what is amg using is the question.

I know of at least one they’re not using. And I speak as someone who shares their opinion on forcing external rotation of the trail shoulder joint. 

 

[glk]

3 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

I know of at least one they’re not using. And I speak as someone who shares their opinion on forcing external rotation of the trail shoulder joint. 

 

/cdn-cgi/mirage/f36c85566d943d34b3e08a3f583cc62e0370dc234d7a6b7e1571d34b02564ecc/1440/cdn-cgi/mirage/f36c85566d943d34b3e08a3f583cc62e0370dc234d7a6b7e1571d34b02564ecc/1440/https://wrxcdn.golfwrx.com/uploads/monthly_2023_01/C7786450-F813-4FDB-8562-C2A8FC685522.jpeg.4226c8579107667e8e0700ca306de354.jpeg

Yep  tyler shared that one with me.   Dr kwon wrote his own software starting in the early 90s as a grad student at psu.   He  plans to release a skinnied down version for golf instructors and have a cert 3 level where he teaches how to use the graphs to make a diagnosis - i dont know how he has it use data from different systems.

 

these are the two amm/tpi for waite and stenson

 

And these are tyler's trail arm graphs where the blue is the sup/pron    Above is supinated below pronated.  Neither shiw early supination and tyler says these are representative.

 

 

 

 

 

[ericz]

1 hour ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

I apologize for being skeptical of this “data” but you all need to understand that all these online pros are trying to make money. Going viral with a new idea sells, clicks pay, views pay, etc. 

 

We don’t know who the mystery golfer is in the video, the conditions in which they were swinging, the intent behind their swing… heck we never even see the swing in full speed in the video. I’m just saying… money is being made and they aren’t showing us who it is, how it was done, and the scope of the data. For all we know it’s one swing in slow motion to sell an idea. I’m not saying it is at all either. I love Amgs videos. But taking them as gospel is a crazy to me. 

 

It's not just one golfer in this video. It's a compilation of swings and they all do the same thing within parameters.

 

I'm sure the GEARS data isn't perfect, but it's a way better than using your eyes which can deceive you. 3D data is a big shift in understanding much like launch monitors have been. IMO you're doing yourself a disservice by ignoring the data.

 

As for sales, clicks, views, etc. welcome to the world.

[MonteScheinblum]

Just for fun.  This was 2 minutes ago after I spoke.

[rondo01]

1 minute ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Just for fun.  This was 2 minutes ago after I spoke.

/cdn-cgi/mirage/404105cadf4a5444e772eafdc4b6c30205455c0e294657c9421d9b92becfdfed/1280/cdn-cgi/mirage/404105cadf4a5444e772eafdc4b6c30205455c0e294657c9421d9b92becfdfed/1280/https://wrxcdn.golfwrx.com/uploads/monthly_2023_01/F31DB9AD-894C-466C-B051-B52AB955A46E.jpeg.ed89fecaa1914635a6ac6b34cb799ae7.jpeg

based on this mount of EVIDENCE, monte must be a SHILL FOR AMG. Are we even sure MONTE isn’t getting a kickback from AMG?????

 

😛

[jds_mlb]

Monte,
Is your presentation going to made publicly available?

 

[Sean124]

8 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Just for fun.  This was 2 minutes ago after I spoke.

/cdn-cgi/mirage/9f462c21c1015647e0dccd5b561a219a6d226dc96886f2627d5dfb4d2e65606b/1280/cdn-cgi/mirage/9f462c21c1015647e0dccd5b561a219a6d226dc96886f2627d5dfb4d2e65606b/1280/https://wrxcdn.golfwrx.com/uploads/monthly_2023_01/F31DB9AD-894C-466C-B051-B52AB955A46E.jpeg.ed89fecaa1914635a6ac6b34cb799ae7.jpeg

Are you guys in Australia?

[AlohaPineapple]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I have not made one person attack and then you come at me? I could name many but I’ll name one.  Search out how Stan Utley cured Charles Barkleys swing yips by telling him to unload the vertical hinge.

 

Excuse me for not posting anymore, but I have been asked by Chris Como (another who has talked about unloading the vertical hinge) to do the first presentation at The Open Forum tonight about myths and misconceptions.  I will be followed by several bio mechanists EXPERTS.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Now it’s a Schroedinger’s cat discussion?

 

Excellent!!!!!!

 

According to quantum physics is the ball really there?

 

Are we really here?

 

Is our solar system just one tiny atom in the body of some super ginormous being?

 

I bet that’s true and he for sure has to unload his trial elbow from the top or he will tear his rotator cuff and the Milky Way is in his right shoulder.   We’re screwed if he is being taught to hold lag.
 

 

Hell, Monte, we've all been in the discussion of whether backswing matters or whether the only thing that matters is impact...

 

But if the atoms comprising the "clubface" don't actually physically contact the atoms comprising the "ball", is there even such a thing as impact? 

 

You heard about when Heisenberg got pulled over, right? 

 

Cop asked him "Do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg replied "No, but I know where I am!"

[glk]

4 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Hell, Monte, we've all been in the discussion of whether backswing matters or whether the only thing that matters is impact...

 

But if the atoms comprising the "clubface" don't actually physically contact the atoms comprising the "ball", is there even such a thing as impact? 

 

You heard about when Heisenberg got pulled over, right? 

 

Cop asked him "Do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg replied "No, but I know where I am!"

And if asked do you know where you are at, he'd reply no but i know how fast i was going.   Or did he say, i am not in danger Skyler, i am the danger?

[GolfTurkey]

That will teach him for driving like an athlete

[FormerBigDaddy]

Delete

Edited January 25, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy
Avoiding pissing match

[Ex Blade User]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Just for fun.  This was 2 minutes ago after I spoke.

You are in the other dimension! (Upside down)

[Ex Blade User]

14 minutes ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Not everyone has to agree and follow the words of a few almighty and all knowing posters on an Internet golf forum. There’s thousands of experts out there that are regarded quite highly that have opposing views. They just don’t post here. God forbid one of us peasants goes against the grain. Like we should be grateful for your presence here. There’s some dudes on some awfully high horses here. So what? An 8.2 handicapper posted presented some very logical ideas. So what we gotta try to own them and post memes? Does that make you feel better? Validate you? So sensitive. 

Seems you are being sensitive here. Not very athletic 

[Krt22]

37 minutes ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

 An 8.2 handicapper posted presented some very logical ideas. 

You posted your opinion, it's logical to you, but clearly not logical to A LOT of other people.

 

We humans have this wonderful ability to operate our arms/hands independently of our body/legs. If we didn't have this ability sports would be boring and the drummer who can't sing would never get any action. The notion that the body is responsible for the arms lowering in transition is completely illogical to me, especially when you can clearly see the arms raise in the backswing and lower in the downswing relative to the body. 

 

You then double down and post images as proof that it is not occurring, when to a lot of people it is obviously actually occurring (and 3D motion capture systems show it to be occurring as well). It's honestly a real head scratcher 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Krt22

[FormerBigDaddy]

12 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

You posted your opinion, it's logical to you, but clearly not logical to A LOT of other people.

 

We humans have this wonderful ability to operate our arms/hands independently of our body/legs. If we didn't have this ability sports would be boring and the drummer who can't single would never get any action. The notion that the body is responsible for the arms lowering in transition is completely illogical to me, especially when you can clearly see the arms raise in the backswing and lower in the downswing relative to the body. 

 

You then double down and post images as proof that it is not occurring, when to a lot of people it is obviously actually occurring (and 3D motion capture systems show it to be occurring as well). It's honestly a real head scratcher 

 

 

 

 

Also for the record my previous post had nothing to do with you. Your replies have been insightful and professional. 

[Rdailey9108]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFZqZoRFbQs/?igshid=NDk5N2NlZjQ=

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CVyHyhZlrEa/?igshid=NDk5N2NlZjQ=

https://www.instagram.com/tv/Cfra7B4Jy4L/?igshid=NDk5N2NlZjQ=

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMkXofCjf4N/?igshid=NDk5N2NlZjQ=

 

Seems like a lot of straighten the arms without pulling on the club to get the arms down and help shallow but I don't s*** about the golf swing. 

 

[glk]

I dont think jason cares whether he had some external rotation or what but these are a year apart and are night and day.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cncv-9ApI74/
 

 

 

[FormerBigDaddy]

1 minute ago, glk said:

I dont think jason cares whether he had some external rotation or what but these are a year apart and are night and day.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cncv-9ApI74/
 

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I also very much respect your presentation of information and insight. 

[GolfTurkey]

4 minutes ago, glk said:

I dont think jason cares whether he had some external rotation or what but these are a year apart and are night and day.

 

 

I only see Day? Ok, I'll see myself out...

[Krt22]

21 minutes ago, glk said:

I dont think jason cares whether he had some external rotation or what but these are a year apart and are night and day.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cncv-9ApI74/
 

 

 

A full hip turn does wonders!

[MPStrat]

18 minutes ago, glk said:

I dont think jason cares whether he had some external rotation or what but these are a year apart and are night and day.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cncv-9ApI74/
 

/cdn-cgi/mirage/e7549045455b02c1e4dd55cd9c158750b835c990d012716c6b42e7ec2c92bbec/1280/cdn-cgi/mirage/e7549045455b02c1e4dd55cd9c158750b835c990d012716c6b42e7ec2c92bbec/1280/https://wrxcdn.golfwrx.com/uploads/monthly_2023_01/94F080BC-5761-476E-A04F-483735EB1355.jpeg.4f407cc906094d1f32a934ab15282597.jpeg

 

 

One of the most shockingly dramatic before and after changes at the pro level I’ve seen.

[getitdaily]

Had an instructor back in the early 2000s who took my game to another level. Went from low 70s and an occasional 71/70 to constantly breaking 70 after just a couple months with him. He had me do a drill once where he had me throw the clubhead into the ground about 2 feet behind my trail foot. Reading this thread, I knew it all sounded familiar. 

 

So I grabbed my lesson notes from him...very first lesson note...from November 2004.

 

 

[Krt22]

Frame those notes. Pretty soon you will need to hire someone to translate the cursive writing

[glk]

35 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I only see Day? Ok, I'll see myself out...

I almost typed knight but caught myself. Maybe i shouldnt have.

[Simpsonia]

I'm more than half convinced that a lot of teachers who make assertions (right or wrong) are because they are very personal to that particular teacher and may not be to many others. Like Mike Malaska with the Malaska move where he says he has to feel so over the top at the bottom that he rehinges his wrist and twirls the club around his waist as his exaggerated feel. Might work as a feel for some, might not at all for others. 

 

That also includes their physiques. Milo is a short guy with a short torso, when combined with a bit more right side bend, he probably just doesn't have to lower the arms as much or even consciously at all to hit a ball well. Then in his mind that turns into "arms lower very little if at all, and right side bend is a bigger factor to shallowing." Which filters into a 20 second video of him making a short statement, but not expounding much. 

 

And then all of his fans come to the the golf nerd forums and have an internet switchblade fight to defend his honor because they only heard the most extreme and disingenuous interpretation of that short video. 

[getitdaily]

24 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Frame those notes. Pretty soon you will need to hire someone to translate the cursive writing

Lol. For sure. 

 

That was good 'ol wally kuchar here in Orlando. Really good instructor. Took the time to reiterate the lesson details after every lesson. 

 

That same lesson note had....speed training in it. The note was "1 practice session a week, fast swings - KILL KILL KILL!"