Old School Shafts

[BIG STU]

4 hours ago, jholz said:

 

I never had the chance to try the VS-Proto. But do still have a classic Aldila NV 75s in my DOT "Stenson Special" 13* FW.

 

I still put that club in the bag for certain courses. Tough to beat the head. Tough to beat the shaft.

 

That's why I keep playing it.

 

Although, I absolutely love hitting my current 15* G30 with the AD-DI 7X.

 

It's tough to go wrong with the options out there, and I'm always loath to blame the equipment.

 

As such, I've always had a frankenstein bag when it comes to shafts. I buy best available at a price I can afford.

Look at my signature-- You will see I am "Frankenstein" on my wood shafts too. LOL one day I was on the range and had all my woods lined up on the stand. A prim and proper tourist golfer asked " what was the deal with the different colored shafts?" I tried to explain the difference and he got the Deer in the headlights look. And yes like you I buy what I can afford most of the time I buy a club and do a takeout thing. Good example I have an Adams Pro Hybrid with a Taylor Made MAS shaft. For me it ain't looks or even brand name but it is what works for me. Could care less if it is brand matching etc

[BIG STU]

53 minutes ago, Mike_C said:

About 20 years ago I had a UST Pro Force Gold 65 in an Orlimar HipTi driver that I just bombed and hit straight.   For some reason I never looked at it that close.  One day I did, and realized I had an R shaft.  I couldn't possibly be an regular shaft guy, so  I swapped it out for a stiff, never hit it nearly as good as I did the R......

I can tell you from experience because I played those shafts a long time they do not play to what most call stiff or regular but the tips are stiff. If you ever pull one look at how thick the walls are on the tip. If you have the swing speed you can really launch one

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, Bad9 said:

 

I still have a Graman UL440 regular that goes as good for me as all the shafts I have tried since.

Gramman were a great shaft back in the day along with Harrison

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, Mike_C said:

About 20 years ago I had a UST Pro Force Gold 65 in an Orlimar HipTi driver that I just bombed and hit straight.   For some reason I never looked at it that close.  One day I did, and realized I had an R shaft.  I couldn't possibly be an regular shaft guy, so  I swapped it out for a stiff, never hit it nearly as good as I did the R......

 

That was like your own personal "auto-flex"

[jholz]

54 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

Look at my signature-- You will see I am "Frankenstein" on my wood shafts too. LOL one day I was on the range and had all my woods lined up on the stand. A prim and proper tourist golfer asked " what was the deal with the different colored shafts?" I tried to explain the difference and he got the Deer in the headlights look. And yes like you I buy what I can afford most of the time I buy a club and do a takeout thing. Good example I have an Adams Pro Hybrid with a Taylor Made MAS shaft. For me it ain't looks or even brand name but it is what works for me. Could care less if it is brand matching etc

 

And this is why I love ya @BIG STU!

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

If they still made the OG Blueboards I'd be playing those.

[Gohigh]

Ive been a shaft tinkerer since 2000, when I discovered the original UST Proforce Gold. Coming from a Taylormade Bubble Shaft, Callaway RCH shafts, etc, I felt like the control and stability was absolutely night and day different than anything that came pre-installed on a driver. For around $75 installed brand new, which adjusted for inflation I guess would be around $130-$150 todays money?, I felt like it literally supercharged any golf club. 

 

TM and Callaway started to capitalize on this by introducing TP and Pro Series respectively, where they started offering more "Tour" quality shafts as an upgrade (Speeder 757, Prolaunch) over their stock line along with modified heads, while charging consumers around $100 more. 

 

Cleveland Launcher with NV shafts... Orlimar Trimetal Plus with EI-70... PING Rapture with VS Proto... 975J with UST Proforce... Adams and Bi-Matrix... I remember every club company started offering non-proprietary shafts after that. 

 

Then the real crazy started with companies offering "MADE FOR" shafts...

 

And then the unfathomable $300 upgrade for Graphite Design shafts started and its been absolutely insane ever since.

 

Ive been tinkering in the exotic shaft market for quite some time now and own quite the collection of them, and my takeaway has been that while the "FEEL" of the shafts have stayed the same over the years, each brand has MORE choices to offer to more variety of golfers than before. 

 

Feel is a relative and subjective thing. If you have been gaming a certain profile over the years, then you will most likely lean towards that same profile regardless of time. So the Whiteboard feel in the OG series, will be relatively the same as the current Diamana DF for example, which I find that to be the case in my experience. But say you give a Ventus Black TR player a Ventus Red TR, then the player will feel a difference in feel. 

 

What you are looking for is consistency, and whatever shaft regardless of material, specs, CPM, profile that helps you to do that while having the feel for tempo and timing purposes. 

 

So for some, it might be that 20 year old shaft... For some it might be an Autoflex. To say one shaft performs the same or similar is a very subjective thing. 

 

I own an Autoflex, and have tried all the budget alternatives like a A flex or L flex shafts, Grand Bassaras, etc. While I could eventually time it and get some consistent results eventually, to say it performs like an Autoflex would be a false statement for me. For again, its my own timing with my own preference in feel, and my personal swing flaws. 

 

 

 

 

[Gohigh]

13 minutes ago, Is Golf Fun or Work said:

If they still made the OG Blueboards I'd be playing those.

Buy them as you see them and hoard them like me. 

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, Gohigh said:

Ive been a shaft tinkerer since 2000, when I discovered the original UST Proforce Gold. Coming from a Taylormade Bubble Shaft, Callaway RCH shafts, etc, I felt like the control and stability was absolutely night and day different than anything that came pre-installed on a driver. For around $75 installed brand new, which adjusted for inflation I guess would be around $130-$150 todays money?, I felt like it literally supercharged any golf club. 

 

TM and Callaway started to capitalize on this by introducing TP and Pro Series respectively, where they started offering more "Tour" quality shafts as an upgrade (Speeder 757, Prolaunch) over their stock line along with modified heads, while charging consumers around $100 more. 

 

Cleveland Launcher with NV shafts... Orlimar Trimetal Plus with EI-70... PING Rapture with VS Proto... 975J with UST Proforce... Adams and Bi-Matrix... I remember every club company started offering non-proprietary shafts after that. 

 

Then the real crazy started with companies offering "MADE FOR" shafts...

 

And then the unfathomable $300 upgrade for Graphite Design shafts started and its been absolutely insane ever since.

 

Ive been tinkering in the exotic shaft market for quite some time now and own quite the collection of them, and my takeaway has been that while the "FEEL" of the shafts have stayed the same over the years, each brand has MORE choices to offer to more variety of golfers than before. 

 

Feel is a relative and subjective thing. If you have been gaming a certain profile over the years, then you will most likely lean towards that same profile regardless of time. So the Whiteboard feel in the OG series, will be relatively the same as the current Diamana DF for example, which I find that to be the case in my experience. But say you give a Ventus Black TR player a Ventus Red TR, then the player will feel a difference in feel. 

 

What you are looking for is consistency, and whatever shaft regardless of material, specs, CPM, profile that helps you to do that while having the feel for tempo and timing purposes. 

 

So for some, it might be that 20 year old shaft... For some it might be an Autoflex. To say one shaft performs the same or similar is a very subjective thing. 

 

I own an Autoflex, and have tried all the budget alternatives like a A flex or L flex shafts, Grand Bassaras, etc. While I could eventually time it and get some consistent results eventually, to say it performs like an Autoflex would be a false statement for me. For again, its my own timing with my own preference in feel, and my personal swing flaws. 

 

 

 

 

You nailed it on the feel and subjective thing. Right now I am going through all of that. I am playing a set of TM TP CBs with Steelfiber 95 r shafts. For me it is a huge departure from playing steel shafted blades all my life. I had to switch or quit because of a bad accident involving breaking my back in 2020. I had gotten to the point that with the steel shafts I was hurting and had fatigue. I switched to what is in my signature now. After a month of playing 4 to 5 18 hole rounds a week I am starting to get the feel for them. I do know one thing as bad as I hate to admit it they have kept me in the game. I have been playing lately with no fatigue or pain

[golfinbrad]

2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Look at my signature-- You will see I am "Frankenstein" on my wood shafts too. LOL one day I was on the range and had all my woods lined up on the stand. A prim and proper tourist golfer asked " what was the deal with the different colored shafts?" I tried to explain the difference and he got the Deer in the headlights look. And yes like you I buy what I can afford most of the time I buy a club and do a takeout thing. Good example I have an Adams Pro Hybrid with a Taylor Made MAS shaft. For me it ain't looks or even brand name but it is what works for me. Could care less if it is brand matching etc

Ok @BIG STUhave to ask.  You say "Frankenstein" does term come from a hockey background using frankenpads?

7 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

lockquote widget

[hammergolf]

I still use Grafalloy Pro Lite HL shafts in my fwy woods. Can’t find anything better, even at 10 times the price of them.

[BIG STU]

4 minutes ago, golfinbrad said:

Ok @BIG STUhave to ask.  You say "Frankenstein" does term come from a hockey background using frankenpads?

lockquote widget

Nope do not know squat about hockey---- It comes from the movie where Frankenstein was created from parts of several human beings.

[golfinbrad]

1 minute ago, BIG STU said:

Nope do not know squat about hockey---- It comes from the movie where Frankenstein was created from parts of several human beings.

In hockey there is the  term frankenpads when we take pieces of different pads to make one that is used.  Have to chuckle because I have no clue about the movie reference.  All good.

[Valtiel]

Most of the points have already been hit on, but IMO it can break down into objective and subjective changes over the years. 

Objectively we're seeing shafts across the board being made to tighter tolerances on average, fancier materials being used, and a wider variety of bend profiles. I'd agree though that the prices have outpaced the improvements if we're being fair, especially in certain shaft categories (more on that below). We are however seeing shafts able to be made stiffer and more stable in lower and lower weight classes which has fueled the rise of more viable 50/60g options for faster swingers. 

Subjectively it's really all about feel, and it makes sense that shafts like the OG Diamana Blueboard and Graphite Design AD-DI get mentioned because the inherently "smoother" feeling designs will age better. The AD-DI is still as relevant as ever (maybe even moreso) now 10 years old and the OG Blueboard had a similar lifespan, still a fixture in a handful of pros bags not so long ago. The ability to have more control over balance point, handle diameter, tip torque, and overall weight has slowly displaced those older shafts, but I agree with the point that if it fits it fits and there is little reason to upgrade and that some of those older designs have changed very little. The super stiff/stable designs have benefitted the most IMO with feel being less and less of a sacrifice. 

Pros also have to deal with wear and tear in ways we never do, so in a hypothetical world where there was an infinite supply of otherwise perishable parts (heads and shafts) we'd probably see noticeably more "old" stuff in play, especially in that same world without equipment contracts as well. The hassle of hoarding some of the things pros might prefer that are otherwise out of production leads most simply going with the "new thing" that is similar to what they like since it's easier to replace.    

Edited April 15, 2023 by Valtiel

[ezra76]

Speeder 757 for me. I still have an old TP logo one sitting in the basement from an r510TP. It was in a superquadTP head that finally cracked. Now has a TM adaptor sleeve, waiting for something like a mini-driver head to come my way.

[Phireside]

Still have a Harrison Saga in the back of a closet.

[Thayneil]

10 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

I feel like we can blame Graphite Design for that.  I think they were the first to increase the prices well past other products in the market, with their YS line.  Such as I remember, that is.

 

I remember the ProForce shaft being not much over $30.  🙂

 

The gd shafts were great until gd increased the prices or discontinued them

 

Ys  pershing  purple ice etc

[wareagle12]

I have tried a ton of new exotic shafts. I don't think I have one in the bag less than 10 years old.

 

Driver- Fuji Motore Speeder 6.1 and nothing I've hit is even close.

5 wood- I have Ian Poulters 909 5 wood with a Graffalloy pro lite that is a great set up.

7 wood have a Matrix xcon7 that I broke in a driver years ago and threw in that works great.

 

I'm a 120+ mph player with driver but have low spin so all the new stuff knuckles on me in the low spin options and the mid stuff doesn't seem to offer any improvement in feel or numbers. Still looking though 😃. Find one that feels right, you hit the center of the face and numbers are decent and who cares when it's from. V2 is awesome also!

 

Edit: The Ventus blue velo was close in the driver but knuckled on me a bit. If I were to get a new one today I would probably try the red....

Edited April 15, 2023 by wareagle12

[grm24]

11 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

I feel like we can blame Graphite Design for that.  I think they were the first to increase the prices well past other products in the market, with their YS line. 

Agree. They went to that snazzy sharp looking blue colorway with their YS+ line and literally doubled their prices. That said IIRC the original Speeder 757 was crazy priced when it came out versus the competition. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by grm24

[grm24]

39 minutes ago, Thayneil said:

The gd shafts were great until gd increased the prices or discontinued them

 

Ys  pershing  purple ice etc

PI is my favorite shaft ever. I've always wondered what current GD shaft is closest in profile to the PI. 

[Booker]

5 hours ago, Is Golf Fun or Work said:

If they still made the OG Blueboards I'd be playing those.

I still play them in my fairways. Have 63, 73, 93, 103x's in my stable. Prefer the o.g. wb in the driver but a 63x blue is fine. 

[grm24]

The original Fujikura Banzai (deep blue color, mid 2000's) was a great FW shaft for me. I played it untipped in some 3 woods and it was great. So was the made for Sonartec Red Ice shaft produced by GD. Matrix Code-8 was another excellent FW shaft. I found that the GD G-Series (red) 70 & 80 shafts were great performers as well.

Edited April 15, 2023 by grm24

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, golfinbrad said:

In hockey there is the  term frankenpads when we take pieces of different pads to make one that is used.  Have to chuckle because I have no clue about the movie reference.  All good.

Ok cool I learned something kinda like we do hot rodding or racing in the old days take parts off of several cars to make one

[BIG STU]

50 minutes ago, grm24 said:

Agree. They went to that snazzy sharp looking blue colorway with their YS+ line and literally doubled their prices. That said IIRC the original Speeder 757 was crazy priced when it came out versus the competition. 

I know it is not exotic but I love that Speeder in my old Alpha driver--- Great combo for me--- Had a guest playing in the Men's Group the other day and he remarked that it was an old driver and shaft. I told him well it was a old man hitting it. 

[grm24]

5 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

I know it is not exotic but I love that Speeder in my old Alpha driver--- Great combo for me--- Had a guest playing in the Men's Group the other day and he remarked that it was an old driver and shaft. I told him well it was a old man hitting it. 

I have no issues with the Speeder. I still have one in a tour issue TM R500 (yes R500) driver that I bought from a WRX member many years back. It was an exotic shaft when it originally came out back in it's day along with its price tag. Alpha made some solid gear for a component company. I still have a set of their RX-1 irons. 

[BIG STU]

14 minutes ago, grm24 said:

I have no issues with the Speeder. I still have one in a tour issue TM R500 (yes R500) driver that I bought from a WRX member many years back. It was an exotic shaft when it originally came out back in it's day along with its price tag. Alpha made some solid gear for a component company. I still have a set of their RX-1 irons. 

I traded for that driver never had hit a Speeder shaft. I just loved the head shape and the way it sat. Hit it the first time and was WOW!!!! fell in love been in the bag ever since

[charliebrown]

On 4/13/2023 at 7:05 PM, NRJyzr said:

I'm still playing the NV quite a bit.  Have a few NV75, an NV105 in a wood, and just picked up a couple NV85's.  Fan of the shaft, obviously.  LOL

 

I love my NV shaft in my driver. Bought a few more 5+ years ago. I have one left I'm hording for a driver yet to be found. 

[JD3]

Green NV, in fact the newer variant is still being played on tour by the likes of Jon Rahm and others. Also I think the Speeder 757 is working well enough for someone, there's no need to change. For slightly weaker shafts, the Grafalloy Blue Pro Launch is nice, especially the fairway version. 

[boggyman]

Big fan of the Green NV….. 

[texcellence86]

Just recently put the OG Blueboard 93x5ct into my UW 21*. Had it sitting in my closet for the longest time with a TM tip on it. Tip trimmed it an additional 1" and now plays 41" in the UW. Best club in the bag for sure.

 

Been paying the Tour AD-Quattrotech MD in my last 3 drivers 910D3, 2016 M2 & now the SIM. Not AS old as the Diamana but still a classic.