Joe Mayo vs Shortgamechef DEATH MATCH (not really, I'm click baiting)

[GolfTurkey]

7 hours ago, umamimami said:

 

I think the “use the bounce camp” is great for people who have more typical/“taught” patterns. If you’re a yoink it inside and scoop it type player - then learning what Mayo advocates will help. Certainly it will give you a way to get higher spin rates and less blades around the green while not being a huge departure from your typical swing pattern.

 

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Mayo teaches that taking it inside is not recommended for the short game.

 

He's also teaching being steep which is the opposite of a scoop. Hovland has a VSP of > 80 on his chips so it couldn't be further removed from yoinking it inside and scooping it.

[umamimami]

5 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Mayo teaches that taking it inside is not recommended for the short game.

 

He's also teaching being steep which is the opposite of a scoop. Hovland has a VSP of > 80 on his chips so it couldn't be further removed from yoinking it inside and scooping it.

 

Your comment is literally a summary of my argument for why it would be good to learn this technique. The point is that learning it helps mitigate those faults. Just like it did for Viktor…

[ferrispgm]

Maybe I'm wrong but to me it seems like course conditions would play a big part in which is more effective.  Tour conditions or conditions you would get at a nice CC where the fairway is firm and greens are kept short, well sanded/de-thatched would allow for the lower flighted spinning shot.  A typical course with softer fairways, longer grass, slower and bouncier greens seems to make using the bounce easier. 

 

When I lived in MI I was fortunate enough to play Warwick Hills a few times right after the Buick Open and I remember just regular low chips checking up really easily.  I remember trying that on other courses and the ball would just come out hot, bounce a little on the green and release. 

[Glock917]

1 hour ago, ferrispgm said:

Maybe I'm wrong but to me it seems like course conditions would play a big part in which is more effective.  Tour conditions or conditions you would get at a nice CC where the fairway is firm and greens are kept short, well sanded/de-thatched would allow for the lower flighted spinning shot.  A typical course with softer fairways, longer grass, slower and bouncier greens seems to make using the bounce easier. 

 

When I lived in MI I was fortunate enough to play Warwick Hills a few times right after the Buick Open and I remember just regular low chips checking up really easily.  I remember trying that on other courses and the ball would just come out hot, bounce a little on the green and release. 

 

Personally think either method or even different way will work in any conditions that you can control the low point consistently. There are plenty of HOF pros thru history that been a "use the bounce" type that were more than proficient in any conditions and same for pros that were the angle attack down using the leading edge type. Choose a way and just own it. There's no wrong or right.

 

I'm a leading edge pitcher with attack angle down but doesn't mean I take massive beaver tails. Lot of course are overseeding and so was the one I played last week. It was soft sandy waterlogged fairways and had a couple pitches from there. I am not going to all of sudden change my technique to a style that I don't practice. I know I have pretty decent low point control and just rely on that to judge the shot.

 

 

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Glock917 said:

Personally think either method or even different way will work in any conditions that you can control the low point consistently.

 

Yep.

[CasualLie]

Subscribing to Joe on the Viktor Channel, I mean Patreon 😉. Currently I have the backswing mastered, but he hasn't covered downswing so I'm still posing out here 30 yards from the green on a par 5 in 2.  4th hole...HMB... It's pretty dark, hurry up Joe!

 

Anyways...Joe has lots of great swing captures of tour players and is fascinating.  I have been trying his spin loft 10* down stuff.  Works nicely when you are confident.  But like all things golf, it will take a long time to dial in distances.

 

Talk about how non-pros make more complicated moves and mess it all up vs the simple pro move!  There's a lot of potential for that with this move.  Keep it simple and it works; anything "extra" and you are dead.

 

Fun stuff!

[GolfTurkey]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:07 PM, CasualLie said:

Subscribing to Joe on the Viktor Channel, I mean Patreon 😉. Currently I have the backswing mastered, but he hasn't covered downswing

 

Hit refresh!

[Golfbeat]

As a true junkie, I subscribed, and on the practice area it works wonders in a very short time. When I use the "bounce method" I occasionally flip too early and skul it. Does not seem the case with the "Mayo method".

[CasualLie]

7 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

Hit refresh!

 

Saw it last night, took it to the practice area... It's fun!  

 

 

[Deadaimz]

7 hours ago, Golfbeat said:

As a true junkie, I subscribed, and on the practice area it works wonders in a very short time. When I use the "bounce method" I occasionally flip too early and skul it. Does not seem the case with the "Mayo method".

I've been subscribing to the method and I'm rarely skulking a pitch now thanks to the method. It had completely transformed my short game and it keeps getting better and better with time.

[PracticeSwinger]

Was surprised that the tweet showing Hovi short pitch motion captured by a phantom camera wasn't posted here

 

 

[CasualLie]

Watching the Fleetwood video post... The sound at impact, the seemingly simple motion, the tempo... It's just so unbelievable.  I think I've watched it 10 times now.

[hackerboy]

4 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

Watching the Fleetwood video post... The sound at impact, the seemingly simple motion, the tempo... It's just so unbelievable.  I think I've watched it 10 times now.

Y totally agree. Work of art. Hovland has great results  (2 beautiful low launch hi spin shots in Dubai today) but looks more mechanical, more pronounced forward tilt/head movement, etc.  Seems to force the low finish. Both players are obviously world class, even among their peers. But Fleetwood looks like he’s playing an instrument.  Waiting for him to really start winning. A few bounces or other guys not getting crazy hot. Can’t believe he hasn’t won on PGA tour or a major yet. 2024. 

[coreymitch5]

On 11/19/2023 at 9:11 PM, hackerboy said:

Y totally agree. Work of art. Hovland has great results  (2 beautiful low launch hi spin shots in Dubai today) but looks more mechanical, more pronounced forward tilt/head movement, etc.  Seems to force the low finish. Both players are obviously world class, even among their peers. But Fleetwood looks like he’s playing an instrument.  Waiting for him to really start winning. A few bounces or other guys not getting crazy hot. Can’t believe he hasn’t won on PGA tour or a major yet. 2024. 

Yea I mean that Canada tournament playoff is a good indictment of why Fleetwood hasn't won, but his short game is fun to watch. Think Vic currently looks mechanical, but it isn't like his full swing doesn't.. just his DNA. Mayo's teachings are world class through and through though.

[alvinokada]

Joe Mayo has developed a theory. although it holds some truths Mr. Mayo is severely misguided. Parker Mchlachlin on the other hand is by far the most intuitive innovative coach around. To have Colleagues and mentors to claim these great ideas as absolutes is disheartening. Parker is original and owns his craft. He doesn't claim to own a new break through. No he teaches off of fundamentals that all start with impact. Parker explores both sides of the spectrum and for that Gets my vote

 

[iacas]

11 hours ago, alvinokada said:

Joe Mayo has developed a theory. although it holds some truths Mr. Mayo is severely misguided.

 

Uhmmmm, in what ways?

 

11 hours ago, alvinokada said:

Parker Mchlachlin on the other hand is by far the most intuitive innovative coach around. To have Colleagues and mentors to claim these great ideas as absolutes is disheartening. Parker is original and owns his craft. He doesn't claim to own a new break through. No he teaches off of fundamentals that all start with impact. Parker explores both sides of the spectrum and for that Gets my vote

 

So, not a big fan of Joe, eh? 😄 

 

I don't think Joe has a "theory." I think he's just teaching people some facts. They're facts we've known for awhile, but which may not be as popular as they have been lately.

[MonteScheinblum]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Uhmmmm, in what ways?

 

 

So, not a big fan of Joe, eh? 😄 

 

I don't think Joe has a "theory." I think he's just teaching people some facts. They're facts we've known for awhile, but which may not be as popular as they have been lately.

The blanket statements made that you replied to are very ignorant.  Joe and Parker agree both methods are viable and used by many elite players and neither say their way is the only way.

 

Both methods are not theories, they are based on what elite players actually do and what metrics produce what kinds of results.

[iacas]

35 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The blanket statements made that you replied to are very ignorant.  Joe and Parker agree both methods are viable and used by many elite players and neither say their way is the only way.

 

Both methods are not theories, they are based on what elite players actually do and what metrics produce what kinds of results.

 

Yup. And I encourage others to learn both, and I teach both. It's not a "one or the other" situation.

[GolfTurkey]

12 hours ago, alvinokada said:

 No he teaches off of fundamentals that all start with impact. 

 

Oh dear...

[lonehawkstation]

13 hours ago, alvinokada said:

Mr. Mayo is severely misguided

Oh? Do tell. With some real data please. 🙂

[GolfTurkey]

1 hour ago, lonehawkstation said:

Oh? Do tell. With some real data please. 🙂

Based on the content and tone, I can't quite tell whether this new poster is right or left handed.

[Soloman1]

What’s the problem with differing methods?

 

Is there a rule that only the pentatonic scale can be used in a guitar lead?

 

Is there only one way to cook BBQ?

[GolfTurkey]

3 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Is there only one way to cook BBQ?

I thought religion was off limits on here?

[nikegolfer93]

To be completely honest, I still don't really understand how Joe Mayo's technique doesn't dig (when i think steep and leading edge, i automatically think about digging). However, that's my fault for not understanding enough. 

Having watched a fair bit of Shortgamechef videos in the past couple years, he actually encourages people to even hit a bit behind the ball (like a dropkick) and is a huge advocate of using the bounce. 

Has he at all responded to Joe Mayo?

[iacas]

2 hours ago, nikegolfer93 said:

To be completely honest, I still don't really understand how Joe Mayo's technique doesn't dig (when i think steep and leading edge, i automatically think about digging). However, that's my fault for not understanding enough. 

 

Some of it is a combination of:

• 10° down isn't THAT steep. It's < 2 minutes on a clock.
• Firm conditions are tough to dig.
• They DO dig and make some little divots and scuff marks.
• They're only hitting the ball 15 yards pretty often, so… it's not got a lot of speed to dig.

[GolfTurkey]

The other big factor is arc depth, if the bottom of the arc is barely below the grass it won't dig, if the bottom of the arc is well below ground you will dig even if you're shallow.

[jonsnow]

17 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

The other big factor is arc depth, if the bottom of the arc is barely below the grass it won't dig, if the bottom of the arc is well below ground you will dig even if you're shallow.

Didn't I see something about good short game players generally stand up through the ball to help get the club out of the ground? Can't remember if that was earlier in this thread or another one.

 

I went to the practice green yesterday, we have dormant bermuda & it's been pretty wet here the last week. No matter what I tried, everything was either a chunk or skull. Very frustrating, felt like the turf was going to pull my wedge right out of my hands.

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, jonsnow said:

Didn't I see something about good short game players generally stand up through the ball to help get the club out of the ground? Can't remember if that was earlier in this thread or another one.

 

I've seen @MonteScheinblum referencing that for some time (and others now that I'm familiar with it) but I don't think it was to help get the club out off the ground as much as a motion on short pitches, for example, that is consistent with a good motion/good mechanics (and maybe counterintuitive to many) but . . . I'd rather he explained it so I don't butcher it, lol.

Edited January 15 by Hawkeye77

[GolfTurkey]

8 hours ago, jonsnow said:

Didn't I see something about good short game players generally stand up through the ball to help get the club out of the ground? Can't remember if that was earlier in this thread or another one.

 

Yes Mayo does talk about that. IIRC correctly, his most famous (ex!!) student was measured doing exactly that at Ping HQ.

[CasualLie]

Got my fill of Mayo, I'm out.  Kudos for helping out the dogs, but collecting $23k/month from subscribers and putting out absolute minimal content for two months...sorry Joe, but given your "promises" to your base, you are now basically taking the piss.

 

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.