Why is TXG/Club Champion so against the golf ball rollback?

[mgoblue83]

They are against it because they will sell fewer clubs and make less $$.

 

This is why ALL equipment companies are against it and why the best solution is bifurcation of the ball. I'd also prefer bifurcation of the clubs as well but sounds like that isn't even on the table. Bifurcation provides the necessary changes to the pro game to keep courses relevant while letting amateurs buy and play whatever they want. 

 

Baseball is a perfect example:

Pro's play wooden bats and amateurs play metal or composite bats. If the pros were able to play composite bats you would either need to accept that all HR records will be broken, winning scores would be 18-15 OR rebuild every stadium to have the outfield fence at 500~ ft instead of 300-400ft. The other thing about baseball is that the ball isn't getting faster every single year like it is in golf. 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by mgoblue83

[mgoblue83]

Double post sorry!

Edited December 4, 2023 by mgoblue83

[Maine Golfer]

How do the Stacked golf couple feel about the rollback? 

[Binson]

4 minutes ago, Maine Golfer said:

How do the Stacked golf couple feel about the rollback? 

Ashley's going to be missing her putts short

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

They are against it because they will sell fewer clubs and make less $$.

 

This is why ALL equipment companies are against it and why the best solution is bifurcation of the ball. I'd also prefer bifurcation of the clubs as well but sounds like that isn't even on the table. Bifurcation provides the necessary changes to the pro game to keep courses relevant while letting amateurs buy and play whatever they want. 

 

Baseball is a perfect example:

Pro's play wooden bats and amateurs play metal or composite bats. If the pros were able to play composite bats you would either need to accept that all HR records will be broken, winning scores would be 18-15 OR rebuild every stadium to have the outfield fence at 500~ ft instead of 300-400ft. The other thing about baseball is that the ball isn't getting faster every single year like it is in golf. 

 

 

You'd also kill some hapless pitcher with a line drive.  But yes, to most of what you wrote.

 

Bifurcation would harm the marketing message that you could play the exact equipment the pros do, but in that case, just make the 'pro ball' available for sale as well.

 

 

 

 

[Stevens24]

So Dr Sasha was on the Hack it out podcast and is against it because it is lazy science. He said having a 317 limit at 115 club head speed is meaningless because if you swing 120-125 you are still long. He also said ball makers will work the test. And that good players will just adjust angle of attack can change and other options that are outside of testing parameters. Just have ball makers make balls that pass the test and then have pros playe them on course and get actual data.

 

He did say it will be great for business

[Fairways_and_Greens]

4 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

There's something to be said about the club manufacturers reluctancy to make different versions of clubs for ams or pros to take advantage of one or more golf balls and etc.

 

This decision opens up a whole can of worms and those with power int he golf industry will have the influence.

 

In regards to TXG/CC - their business model thrives on people seeing better results. How do you think people will react when they go in for a fitting down the road after the new ball is implemented and their numbers are WORSE? lol "Sorry theres a new golf ball and you'll never hit it as far like you used to". Yeah that'll go over well and really make them $$$ 😂

Their business is fitting and selling equipment. I bet my lunch that most their business comes from people that buy new equipment at least every other year. That will remain unchanged with the new rule. 

[Fairways_and_Greens]

4 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

They are against it because they will sell fewer clubs and make less $$.

 

This is why ALL equipment companies are against it and why the best solution is bifurcation of the ball. I'd also prefer bifurcation of the clubs as well but sounds like that isn't even on the table. Bifurcation provides the necessary changes to the pro game to keep courses relevant while letting amateurs buy and play whatever they want. 

 

Baseball is a perfect example:

Pro's play wooden bats and amateurs play metal or composite bats. If the pros were able to play composite bats you would either need to accept that all HR records will be broken, winning scores would be 18-15 OR rebuild every stadium to have the outfield fence at 500~ ft instead of 300-400ft. The other thing about baseball is that the ball isn't getting faster every single year like it is in golf. 

 

 

MLB has also changed the firmness and seams of the ball to change pitching/hitting as well. They’ve also changed mound heights for the same thing. 

[Dutch1008]

46 minutes ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

Their business is fitting and selling equipment. I bet my lunch that most their business comes from people that buy new equipment at least every other year. That will remain unchanged with the new rule. 

 

It won't remain unchanged. It will go up...

 

Ian - "Great news, with this new $500 aftermarket shaft, Ping's newest low spin driver, and these loft jacked hollow body irons, w/ another after market shaft upgrade, you've not only gained back all the distance those jerks as the USGA stole, but you gained 3 more!!" 

 

Weekend Hack - "Awesome! You're a life saver!"

 

Ian - "Anytime, we'll have your clubs built in 4 to 6 weeks. Before you go, let me tell you about this special from the guys at The Stack System exclusive to TXG customers!"

[wfrogge1]

6 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

They are against it because they will sell fewer clubs and make less $$.

 

This is why ALL equipment companies are against it and why the best solution is bifurcation of the ball. I'd also prefer bifurcation of the clubs as well but sounds like that isn't even on the table. Bifurcation provides the necessary changes to the pro game to keep courses relevant while letting amateurs buy and play whatever they want. 

 

Baseball is a perfect example:

Pro's play wooden bats and amateurs play metal or composite bats. If the pros were able to play composite bats you would either need to accept that all HR records will be broken, winning scores would be 18-15 OR rebuild every stadium to have the outfield fence at 500~ ft instead of 300-400ft. The other thing about baseball is that the ball isn't getting faster every single year like it is in golf. 

 

 

They won't sell fewer clubs with this rollback. In fact, they will sell more as golfers will be looking to adapt to the new ball and how far it (doesn't) go.

[Phabs]

Weird.  Like their business model or something revolves typically around distance gains or something. 

[Avidswampthing66]

2 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

It won't remain unchanged. It will go up...

 

Ian - "Great news, with this new $500 aftermarket shaft, Ping's newest low spin driver, and these loft jacked hollow body irons, w/ another after market shaft upgrade, you've not only gained back all the distance those jerks as the USGA stole, but you gained 3 more!!" 

 

Weekend Hack - "Awesome! You're a life saver!"

 

Ian - "Anytime, we'll have your clubs built in 4 to 6 weeks. Before you go, let me tell you about this special from the guys at The Stack System exclusive to TXG customers!"

IF you were in their shoes, what would you do?  It's easy to sit back and be a keyboard hero (not suggesting you are) and say "why would TXG be against a rollback?"  They fear it will hurt their business and I agree, it most certainly will.  I'm a good golfer and I carry my driver 250 and get good rollout to 280 on a good day.  A rollback would hurt me for sure especially in competition where I'm dealing with bombers.  But, if it passes like they say, challenge accepted.  If not, cool.  I respect the USGA and R&A.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Avidswampthing66

[m d g]

10 hours ago, SnowbirdTom said:

I hope it goes thru.  All the member threats to quit the game should be forced to keep their promise.  Might actually be easier to get tee times then!

Is this like certain celebrities who threatened to move to Canada when a certain president was elected?

 

And yet, they're all still living in Beverly Hills...

[OrangeGravy]

On 12/3/2023 at 11:34 AM, nikegolfer93 said:

Why are the guys at TXG/Club Champion so against the the golf ball roll back?

 

They could still sell and rest the non-nerfed version of the ProVs

They make their living off the equipment industry.  They're gonna side with equipment manufacturers quite obviously 

[Binson]

7 minutes ago, OrangeGravy said:

They make their living off the equipment industry.  They're gonna side with equipment manufacturers quite obviously 

I think it's the other way around. They are living off the goodwill and trust they have built with their viewer base and turning those viewers into customers. 

 

If they don't take the side of their customers, they betray that trust and goodwill.  

[GoGoErky]

7 hours ago, Binson said:

I think it's the other way around. They are living off the goodwill and trust they have built with their viewer base and turning those viewers into customers. 

 

If they don't take the side of their customers, they betray that trust and goodwill.  

Don’t you know it’s the big bad equipment and ball companies that are ruining golf (sarcasm because its the same people in every thread bashing the OEMs for how bad the game is and for pushing the distance thing)

[bodhi555]

Because it's a really rubbish idea?

[RCGA]

I have no idea why they're against it. 

 

There whole marketing strategy should be "get fit and we'll regain the yards lost, guaranteed" 

 

I mean, the whole industry has the opportunity to resell entire bags of gear with new clubs "optimized for the new ball" or whatever marketing wank they want to go with. 

[clinkinfo]

16 hours ago, subrew said:

 

I'm not missing any of that.  There is a 9 million page thread on this forum talking about it.  This thread doesn't need to be another one.  I watch a fair bit of TXG, so I see what Ian and Mike discuss.  They often take a stance on topics that is pretty conservative golf standard issue.  Then a year later, things change, it wasn't as bad as they thought etc.  

 

And FYI, bifurcation isn't part of it anymore.  OEMs said no thanks to the MLR, so they have moved on to a reduced ball for everyone.  That was in the news a few months back.  In fact, that is part of what Rory's very recent comments (yesterday) discussed.  

 

So you are in luck.  If you hated the idea of a rollback because of bifurcation, you don't need to be concerned anymore.

 

 

 

 

Your assumption that the "conservative" view is to ALLOW the rollback change is what's wrong.  That's what I meant.

 

And some don't believe this is the only change that's coming, it's just a start.  So we'll see if bifurcation will reappear shortly after this change.  

[RCGA]

20 minutes ago, clinkinfo said:

And some don't believe this is the only change that's coming, it's just a start.  So we'll see if bifurcation will reappear shortly after this change.  

 

We already have bifurcation. 

 

Scottie Scheffler just won with a driver and fairway wood that haven't even been announced publicly by the OEM. And I couldn't find an order page for a Logan Olson putter.

[GoGoErky]

10 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

We already have bifurcation. 

 

Scottie Scheffler just won with a driver and fairway wood that haven't even been announced publicly by the OEM. And I couldn't find an order page for a Logan Olson putter.

We don’t have bifurcation. Any equipment they use is on the conforming list and meets the same specs as the clubs in your bag.

 

not to mention we are at the time of the year where new releases are coming and pros put it in play where the risks of bad rounds and tourneys don’t have much impact.

[Ferguson]

25 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

We already have bifurcation. 

 

Scottie Scheffler just won with a driver and fairway wood that haven't even been announced publicly by the OEM. And I couldn't find an order page for a Logan Olson putter.

 

And to top it off, Scott Scheffler just invested in a pickleball team.   

Closed bid - WTF? 

[MattC555]

33 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

We already have bifurcation. 

 

Scottie Scheffler just won with a driver and fairway wood that haven't even been announced publicly by the OEM. And I couldn't find an order page for a Logan Olson putter.

 

I could make a one off putter that Scottie could never own.  I have a wedge that I ground myself.  I have a specific amount of hot melt in my driver.  That doesn't mean our equipment is bifurcated.  The rules are the same. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by MattC555

[PuffyC]

2 hours ago, RCGA said:

I have no idea why they're against it. 

 

There whole marketing strategy should be "get fit and we'll regain the yards lost, guaranteed" 

 

I mean, the whole industry has the opportunity to resell entire bags of gear with new clubs "optimized for the new ball" or whatever marketing wank they want to go with. 

 

If golfers have to buy a whole new bag of sticks just to stay where they were yesterday, many of your new and covid golfers will probably say screw it and bail out of the sport. Many of your older players who are already struggling with distance probably will too. Of course some might like the idea of fewer people taking up the game and clogging up their course but if your livelihood is selling merch (like TXG/CC) then that will very much not be good for you.

[PickItUpGolf]

2 hours ago, bodhi555 said:

Because it's a really rubbish idea?

 

I came here to post this, but I was going to use the word sh1t

 

Changing the ball is a disgusting idea based purely on the fact that all the balls manufactured prior to the rule coming into effect are going to be essentially landfill.

 

Bifurcation isn't the answer either, I want to play what the Pros play, I know McIlroy said they already play different stuff, but them playing a different ball to the rest of us just doesn't seem right either.

[clinkinfo]

29 minutes ago, PickItUpGolf said:

 

I came here to post this, but I was going to use the word sh1t

 

Changing the ball is a disgusting idea based purely on the fact that all the balls manufactured prior to the rule coming into effect are going to be essentially landfill.

 

Bifurcation isn't the answer either, I want to play what the Pros play, I know McIlroy said they already play different stuff, but them playing a different ball to the rest of us just doesn't seem right either.

 

 

It's all predicated on the concept that the game is "broken" and needs to be fixed.  

 

Just because golfers became fit and worked hard to understand swing and ball physics, doesn't mean the advantage of hitting it longer should be eliminated from the game.  As we all watched with Bryson, there's a place where more distance without accuracy won't help your score anymore.  In addition, course design with risk and reward tempers long hitting advantages way more than pure lengthing does.

 

At the end of the day, it's the lowest score that wins, however you decide to strategically try and accomplish that.  Many of us feel that isn't broken and this rollback is a silly unnecessary thing fixing a problem that isn't real.

[bodhi555]

43 minutes ago, PickItUpGolf said:

 

I came here to post this, but I was going to use the word sh1t

 

Changing the ball is a disgusting idea based purely on the fact that all the balls manufactured prior to the rule coming into effect are going to be essentially landfill.

 

Bifurcation isn't the answer either, I want to play what the Pros play, I know McIlroy said they already play different stuff, but them playing a different ball to the rest of us just doesn't seem right either.

 

You'll get no disagreement from me on your post - Rory was going on about the sustainability of the game when:

 

- it will just give the bigger hitters an even bigger advantage than they have already

- it doesn't sound especially sustainable to junk millions of golf balls just because Min Woo Lee is reaching 190 mph ball speed. Effectively any balls bought up until 2029 will be useless the year after, as no one is going to buy the reduced speed version until they have to. 

 

Everyone's keen to say it's protecting older courses - let's take the example of one close to my heart, St Andrews. it's always been known that TOC is fairly easy when the wind isn't blowing, but when it does it's a nightmare. Going low on TOC in good conditions has always been a thing, I'm really not sure it's worth making the game harder for millions of amateurs is the answer there. The answer there is to just accept that's The Old Course, and wait for the bad weather to make everyone look silly again. 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

1 hour ago, PickItUpGolf said:

 

I came here to post this, but I was going to use the word sh1t

 

Changing the ball is a disgusting idea based purely on the fact that all the balls manufactured prior to the rule coming into effect are going to be essentially landfill.

 

Bifurcation isn't the answer either, I want to play what the Pros play, I know McIlroy said they already play different stuff, but them playing a different ball to the rest of us just doesn't seem right either.

Then go buy a sleeve of the Pro-only ball.  That's fine.  Move up if you need to, lol.  More power to you, and I appreciate wanting to compare apples to apples.

 

But in this situation, you're not forced to use that ball.  Pros would be, but that's fair.  They're the ones causing the problem.

 

 

[GoGoErky]

49 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

Then go buy a sleeve of the Pro-only ball.  That's fine.  Move up if you need to, lol.  More power to you, and I appreciate wanting to compare apples to apples.

 

But in this situation, you're not forced to use that ball.  Pros would be, but that's fair.  They're the ones causing the problem.

 

 

Except when the manufacturers stop producing the non compliant ball and unless you have a stockpile of the current ball and don’t plan to maintain a handicap you will have to play the new ball since it’s not just a pro ball but a ball for everyone.

 

Then when that stockpile runs out the golfer will be forced to play the new ball

[HeadCovered]

2 hours ago, PickItUpGolf said:

 

I came here to post this, but I was going to use the word sh1t

 

Changing the ball is a disgusting idea based purely on the fact that all the balls manufactured prior to the rule coming into effect are going to be essentially landfill.

 

Bifurcation isn't the answer either, I want to play what the Pros play, I know McIlroy said they already play different stuff, but them playing a different ball to the rest of us just doesn't seem right either.

 

The FULL shift isn't happening until 2030. 

Selling of current balls is planned to stop in 2028, which means manufacturing of them will stop in 2027.

 

That's plenty of time for current balls to be used up before the change happens. If there are issues in factory machining switch that doesn't happen fast enough, if there are current ball formulas still remaining, they could probably skip the final steps of urethane coating and curing paint etc - and turn them without a proper final cover and turn them into range balls with basic paint jobs. 

 

They'll be plenty of time to shift. IF it happens. I am sure they are debating, still. 

 

Still think it's better if the courses were made bushier and rough longer, fairways slower, than taking the equipment away. If the ball wasn't allowed to roll out so much - we also would not have this problem. So many courses on Tour have firm, fast fairways - they cut them so short and made to dry out before the tournaments - look at the way they move tees up if it rains  - why can't they just adjust the mowers, so that it's in the rules that the fairways must be a full inch, not shaved and made firm almost like a green, and the rough 3 inches after the first semi cut. And let the bushes be bushes, and add more OBs and tighten the boundary lines

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by HeadCovered