Callaway Paradym VS AI Smoke triple diamond

[RoyalMustang]

On 2/6/2024 at 11:04 AM, Malc said:

Gotta laugh at the Smoke advert. 7 yards longer, yeah right.

 

It's 7 yards longer EVERY year, right? I think my TSI3 driver was made in 2021. Time to upgrade: that's 21 yards at the normal 7 yards/year distance improvement that the marketing people claim. 

 

At 7 yards a year from the 2021 model I'm playing, I'll break 350 carry in 2029. Can't wait! 

[bluedot]

2 hours ago, Malc said:

Ad here in UK states 7 yards longer across the face. I've not hit one but for sure i'd call it BS.

Yes, which means on mishits.  They’re marketing forgiveness.

[Avidswampthing66]

6 hours ago, Jut said:

I played the Paradym TD for a while last year (and probably should’ve kept it).  I’m a bit strange in that I only swing it around 100 mph, but generate a significant amount of spin and launch.  I typically “fit” best in low spin heads, but could still use some forgiveness and don’t wanna have to work a ton with the stout low/low shafts.  I had the Kai’li White stiff in the Paradym TD.  Wonder if the Denali Black is similar?  

When I tested the driver originally it had Denali Black, and I thought it felt similar to Kai'li white.  Not a low low, but more of a mid

[Avidswampthing66]

5 hours ago, Malc said:

Ad here in UK states 7 yards longer across the face. I've not hit one but for sure i'd call it BS.

Sure, it's marketing crap.  But the actual message is after thousands and thousands of shots and face iterations what they have seen is an average increase across the face compared to last years Paradym.  I think that's an important distinction to make.  They are not claiming its longer than all the other drivers.  

[phizzy30]

Just now, Avidswampthing66 said:

Sure, it's marketing crap.  But the actual message is after thousands and thousands of shots and face iterations what they have seen is an average increase across the face compared to last years Paradym.  I think that's an important distinction to make.  They are not claiming its longer than all the other drivers.  

Agree 100%.  I think that when a golfer gets to a certain skill level for ball striking, it's not so much the pure strikes that matter as much as how forgiving their mishits are.  That's where the modern driver and overall forgiveness across the entire face comes into play.  Also, pros and elite ams tend to miss horizontally when you look at their tee marks for driver whereas hackers tend to miss all over the face. 

Edited February 8 by phizzy30

[JamesG12]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:37 AM, phizzy30 said:

True.  I'm gonna put up a review after I do more in depth testing on the course.  Ball speeds were similar compared to the OG off the sweet spot, but a little more forgiveness horizontally across the face on GC Quad is why I pulled the trigger.  Someone mentioned not seeing a huge drop off in spin off the toe as well which is where I miss so I'm hoping that translates out on the course.  Nothing like duck hooking one off the toe into the water or OB, sigh. 

I think this is the answer. I tested them side by side with the same shaft. Low heel and high toe it is more forgiving. Spin still deviates but in a much more playable manner. Center strikes you can’t tell the difference. 
 

Also, for all the comments about the weight… with the same shaft and stock weights in the head the Paradym was 1.5 swing weight points heavier at my club fitter. I play the DJ 55 M5. 
 

 

[KonaV821]

I tested my paradym with the ai smoke yesterday. Used my gamer shaft.

 

Top ball speeds were similar but ball speed on mishits were much better with the AI smoke. 
 

I had no intentions of trying it this year until my fitter at club champion mentioned how forgiving it was.

 

Now I’m down 640$ lol

 

 

 

 

[shankz]

I really like how the Smoke drivers look. I like how the top lines set up on the Smoke much more than the Paradym. My last Callaway driver was the ft3/5 but the Smoke is probably next. 

[Jimi Thing]

It's funny how some blame OEM's for marketing their product, for wanting to sell. They are careful with bold claims they are not able to back up. At the same time these claims typically are based on very specific set of circumstances, so make sure you understand those circumstances.  

 

But if, as a consumer in 2024, you are fooled with longer distance claims, I'm sorry but that is on you. You should have done your homework quite a bit better before you shell out $600. COR is regulated for many, many years now. So max distance out of all of these heads tend to become very similar and is regulated. If you are major oem and not managing to get to that max COR expected distance you are going to struggle. Thinking of Mizuno. 

 

The driver market is about getting that COR related ball speeds from bigger area's of the face. Spin control is the name of the game if I understand correctly. And Callaway since the Rogue St family has really made significant technological progress using their AI. They have managed to create increasingly forgiving faces (retaining ball speeds) with the use of AI. For once I think this is not just marketing bs but true tangible and playable improvements for us golfers that throughout a season of golf will result in better driver stats. 

[phizzy30]

7 hours ago, shankz said:

I really like how the Smoke drivers look. I like how the top lines set up on the Smoke much more than the Paradym. My last Callaway driver was the ft3/5 but the Smoke is probably next. 

My previous Callaway driver was the FT9-TA, then I went on a really long run of TM drivers.  I felt like the prodigal son after coming back full circle with the Paradym TD last year and now the AI Smoke TD, lol. 

Edited February 14 by phizzy30

[gioguy21]

On 2/5/2024 at 8:34 PM, phizzy30 said:

I'm the guy that buys a new driver every year.  With that being said, the AI smoke does look better overall compared to the Paradym however, it didn't wow me performance wise which is why I'm choosing to stay with the Paradym TD.  I saw very similar numbers across the board on GC Quad with both with maybe a hair better ball speed retention on heel strikes(AI smoke TD) which is of little concern because my usual mishit is actually toe side.  On the other hand, the head pro over at my cc loves his AI Smoke TD and raves about it every time I see him. 

this. this exactly. i saw similar performance results and if i didn't go cobra DS X, i would've just bought a new paradym TD head. 

[paztormike]

On 2/13/2024 at 6:02 PM, KonaV821 said:

I tested my paradym with the ai smoke yesterday. Used my gamer shaft.

 

Top ball speeds were similar but ball speed on mishits were much better with the AI smoke. 
 

I had no intentions of trying it this year until my fitter at club champion mentioned how forgiving it was.

 

Now I’m down 640$ lol

 

 

 

 

This is about my experience as well. I have both drivers and have taken them both out to hit with the same two shafts on the range and on the course. 

My best struck shots with both clubs were pretty close.

 

The big differences for me are: (with the heavy weight in back)

1. The Smoke launches a bit higher and definitely has a higher peak height for me even with the same shafts and same settings. 

2. The Smoke gives me FAR better numbers when I hit the ball lower on the face or toward the toe. 

3. The OG Paradym sounds a little more quiet/numb. The Smoke still sounds great though. 

4. I was quickly more confident with the Smoke after just hitting a bucket of balls.

5. The forgiveness and the confidence would be well worth the price of upgrade for me.

[SCOTT4099]

On 2/15/2024 at 1:07 PM, paztormike said:

This is about my experience as well. I have both drivers and have taken them both out to hit with the same two shafts on the range and on the course. 

My best struck shots with both clubs were pretty close.

 

The big differences for me are: (with the heavy weight in back)

1. The Smoke launches a bit higher and definitely has a higher peak height for me even with the same shafts and same settings. 

2. The Smoke gives me FAR better numbers when I hit the ball lower on the face or toward the toe. 

3. The OG Paradym sounds a little more quiet/numb. The Smoke still sounds great though. 

4. I was quickly more confident with the Smoke after just hitting a bucket of balls.

5. The forgiveness and the confidence would be well worth the price of upgrade for me.

Which model ai smoke are you using? Sorry if I missed it…thanks

[ANimz]

Have they ever mentioned the reasoning for removing the jailbreak?

[JamesG12]

I posted earlier on this thread regarding more forgiveness, but I’ve noticed the smoke td to be a bit more fade biased than the paradym. Same shaft and loft sleeve set up (LA golf DJ 5x, N/-1). Not sure if that’s just me or if others are seeing the same thing 

[third-times-a-charm]

22 minutes ago, ANimz said:

Have they ever mentioned the reasoning for removing the jailbreak?

Weight savings, and not needed anymore with advanced in their face technology and how they brace it in other ways.

[phizzy30]

2 minutes ago, JamesG12 said:

I posted earlier on this thread regarding more forgiveness, but I’ve noticed the smoke td to be a bit more fade biased than the paradym. Same shaft and loft sleeve set up (LA golf DJ 5x, N/-1). Not sure if that’s just me or if others are seeing the same thing 

I'm seeing the opposite of you but I think it's more shaft related in my case.  Played my second round with the AI Smoke and was hitting a draw all day.  I had one shoot out to the right but it was a push. 

[KonaV821]

15 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

I'm seeing the opposite of you but I think it's more shaft related in my case.  Played my second round with the AI Smoke and was hitting a draw all day.  I had one shoot out to the right but it was a push. 

This is exactly what I’m seeing as well and the I only thing I don’t like about the smoke. 

 

i need to do more testing by my paradym rarely drew and i liked that. 

[HoganHO]

17 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

I'm seeing the opposite of you but I think it's more shaft related in my case.  Played my second round with the AI Smoke and was hitting a draw all day.  I had one shoot out to the right but it was a push. 

I played the Paradym TD all of last year. Played a couple rounds with the Smoke TD--I do think it has a touch more fade bias in it. Great driver though. Would echo that the misses just seem to be better.

[paztormike]

On 2/16/2024 at 10:36 PM, SCOTT4099 said:

Which model ai smoke are you using? Sorry if I missed it…thanks

Triple Diamond. 

 

I am absolutely blown away by this driver. I've had it for only a short time and I'm already so much more comfortable and confident with it. When I have a few minutes, I'm going to write up a bunch of thoughts about it and post in this thread or maybe create a new one.  

[SwingBlade]

Perhaps some need to gain a better understanding of what Ai is and is not.  Also, Cally is using their Ai tech to perform the forgiveness gains that other manufacturers seek with traditional bulge and roll MOI design concepts.  Without the new Ai face, the Smoke actually only would have moderate MOI forgiveness.  
 

Keep in mind that Cally is using 250,000 + hits by all type of golfers from amateur to pro to enable Ai to assess the data and design the face.  Ai is designing the face, not Cally engineers.  

Edited February 22 by SwingBlade

[Avidswampthing66]

1 hour ago, SwingBlade said:

Perhaps some need to gain a better understanding of what Ai is and is not.  Also, Cally is using their Ai tech to perform the forgiveness gains that other manufacturers seek with traditional bulge and roll MOI design concepts.  Without the new Ai face, the Smoke actually only would have moderate MOI forgiveness.  
 

Keep in mind that Cally is using 250,000 + hits by all type of golfers from amateur to pro to enable Ai to assess the data and design the face.  Ai is designing the face, not Cally engineers.  

 Part of this is mining the data from all those Top Golf swings.   Pretty nifty and resourceful IMO.   Need a lot of swing data?  Buy up Top Golf and plug it in to the matrix.

[Callaway Man]

I posted this in another thread, but I saw similar numbers when testing them. Ended up buying the AI Smoke in hopes that the face is a little more durable. 

 

Orange - Paradym TD

White - AI Smoke TD

 

[Malc]

Am i reading this wrong or did you splash out for a club that hits it shorter.

[kobemk33]

Played the Paradym TD all last year and for the most part loved it.  Had the opportunity yesterday to compare with the AI Smoke TD with my gamer shaft.  Pretty much can agree with most the comments on this thread.  Much more forgiving on mishits and gave me lot of confidence.  Balls mishit on the Paradym hit on the same spot with the AI smoke ended up in play with impressive numbers all around.  Had no plans of switching but the consistency across the face was impressive.  Also averaged 5 yards further with the Smoke and spin numbers were ranging about 200 RPMs less then the Paradym.  Needless to say I'll be making the switch to AI Smoke TD.

[jtmagic]

6 hours ago, kobemk33 said:

Played the Paradym TD all last year and for the most part loved it.  Had the opportunity yesterday to compare with the AI Smoke TD with my gamer shaft.  Pretty much can agree with most the comments on this thread.  Much more forgiving on mishits and gave me lot of confidence.  Balls mishit on the Paradym hit on the same spot with the AI smoke ended up in play with impressive numbers all around.  Had no plans of switching but the consistency across the face was impressive.  Also averaged 5 yards further with the Smoke and spin numbers were ranging about 200 RPMs less then the Paradym.  Needless to say I'll be making the switch to AI Smoke TD.

 

This is great to hear.  I have been on the fence with upgrading to the Smoke TD but experiences like this are getting me off that fence.  

[kobemk33]

1 hour ago, jtmagic said:

 

This is great to hear.  I have been on the fence with upgrading to the Smoke TD but experiences like this are getting me off that fence.  

Had no intention to switch nor was it even a thought in my mind.  My fitter was like let's just throw it in and look at the numbers.  Ugh he knew what was about to happen.  

[JamesG12]

6 minutes ago, kobemk33 said:

Had no intention to switch nor was it even a thought in my mind.  My fitter was like let's just throw it in and look at the numbers.  Ugh he knew what was about to happen.  

Was ball flight similar for you with the same shaft?

[Avidswampthing66]

The new driver, is simply a better driver than last years PTD.  I did go up in loft bc of spin.

 I hit one poor driver today (bc my lower body stalled) and my buddy said, dude you havent missed a fairway in a month.  Worst drive of the year.   It's a damn good driver.

[TWGator]

8 minutes ago, Avidswampthing66 said:

The new driver, is simply a better driver than last years PTD.  I did go up in loft bc of spin.

 I hit one poor driver today (bc my lower body stalled) and my buddy said, dude you havent missed a fairway in a month.  Worst drive of the year.   It's a damn good driver.

Welp I just bought one in the classifieds, I’ll be going from the Epic speed so I’m expecting at least 20yards, kidding.  But I hit the smoke at demo day and was amazed at the forgiveness.  My swing was crap that day.