How much money would you need to run your own private club?

[King_Slender]

If you had enough money to build a course (let's take those costs out of it for the sake of argument), how much would it cost annually to run your own private club?  

 

Think of a club like Ohoopee - it has 100 members, there are never more than 15-20 people who play it in a typical day - it's just a private playground.  But they do have costs:

 

• Pro shop - have to have a Pro on staff
• Maintenance - greenskeeper, staff, and equipment
• Bar - they have a bar and a chef who provides the menu as-is each day

 

For a minimalist club like that, what do you think the annual costs look like?  $2M a year? More?  I have no idea. 

 

If I ever hit the lotto, I'd setup a club like that in a heartbeat:

 

• 50 members - nominal annual fee
• Mondays there is a lottery for 20-30 local juniors to play free of charge to grow the game

[OnTheBag]

26 minutes ago, King_Slender said:

For a minimalist club like that, what do you think the annual costs look like?  $2M a year? More?  I have no idea. 

Your maintenance costs will exceed $5M annually if we are talking about 18 holes of exclusivity.  There is an expectation of folks willing to pay for that convenience.  Until Spring '23, I worked as the Asst Super at a country club that limited membership to invitees only and had a SUBSTANTIAL initiation fee.  Our members would be classified as uber-elite.  Operating costs are staggering.  The bar isn't stocked for Jack and Coke, it has bottles of Johnny Blue and vintage wines.  Same with the food menu. 

 

All depends on how you want the course to present and what you expect your members to pay for the privilege. 

[klebs01]

1 minute ago, OnTheBag said:

Your maintenance costs will exceed $5M annually if we are talking about 18 holes of exclusivity. 

this is just false. Depending on location, costs could be as low as $600k. 
 

$2m would be a decent budget. Really depends on the scale of the amenities. 

[OnTheBag]

8 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

this is just false. Depending on location, costs could be as low as $600k. 
 

$2m would be a decent budget. Really depends on the scale of the amenities. 

It all depends on the level of club you are talking about.

[OnTheBag]

11 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

this is just false. Depending on location, costs could be as low as $600k. 
 

$2m would be a decent budget. Really depends on the scale of the amenities. 

You will drop $300k at a minimum on herbicides, pesticides, and recover seed.  That doesn't count sand, top dressing, equipment fuel cost, and irrigation supplies.  $600k would be at the level of a cheap muni.  And you haven't even paid your staff yet.

[Pepperturbo]

51 minutes ago, King_Slender said:

If you had enough money to build a course (let's take those costs out of it for the sake of argument), how much would it cost annually to run your own private club?  

 

Think of a club like Ohoopee - it has 100 members, there are never more than 15-20 people who play it in a typical day - it's just a private playground.  But they do have costs:

 

• Pro shop - have to have a Pro on staff
• Maintenance - greenskeeper, staff, and equipment
• Bar - they have a bar and a chef who provides the menu as-is each day

 

For a minimalist club like that, what do you think the annual costs look like?  $2M a year? More?  I have no idea. 

 

If I ever hit the lotto, I'd setup a club like that in a heartbeat:

 

• 50 members - nominal annual fee
• Mondays there is a lottery for 20-30 local juniors to play free of charge to grow the game

Nice golf club, lunch only, Proshop, nothing too outlandish, depends on location.  Here in SOCAL, 75k-100k+ a month operating expenses, plus leased grounds equipment, and expect ZERO profit.

[klebs01]

4 minutes ago, OnTheBag said:

You will drop $300k at a minimum on herbicides, pesticides, and recover seed.  That doesn't count sand, top dressing, equipment fuel cost, and irrigation supplies.  $600k would be at the level of a cheap muni.  And you haven't even paid your staff yet.

maybe in your region, but that’s not universal at all. And no, that’s not for a cheap muni. 

[OnTheBag]

4 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Nice golf club, lunch only, Proshop, nothing too outlandish, depends on location.  Here in SOCAL, 75k-100k+ a month operating expenses, plus leased grounds equipment, and expect ZERO profit.

I could see $100k a month if everything is leased and you were pinching pennies.  A 2.5 gallon jug of Green Activator is selling for $300 right now.  Basic maintenance on the equipment has gone through the roof, if you are repairing the plug aerator or triplex mower then it is even worse.  Plus at $4 a gallon avg for gas, that adds up in a hurry.  

[OnTheBag]

Just now, klebs01 said:

maybe in your region, but that’s not universal at all. And no, that’s not for a cheap muni. 

We will have to agree to disagree on this.  

[klebs01]

5 minutes ago, OnTheBag said:

We will have to agree to disagree on this.  

alright. I’m looking at club financials and budgets right now. Chemicals and fertilizer was $71k. 

[Nickb333]

You should be able to pencil out payroll pretty close for your area. Them make an educated guess at the other expenses. Double that guess and you’ll be in the ballpark. 

[Hateslowplay]

given this will never happen - I'll happily pass on any arguing. Let's move on to something more definitive - like who was the greatest at anything. 

[Kmagnuss]

[OnTheBag]

24 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

alright. I’m looking at club financials and budgets right now. Chemicals and fertilizer was $71k. 

For the year?  Wow, we were going through more than that a quarter.  

[OnTheBag]

27 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

alright. I’m looking at club financials and budgets right now. Chemicals and fertilizer was $71k. 

What part of the country are you in?  Are you guys open all year?

[goalie]

8 minutes ago, Kmagnuss said:

[klebs01]

19 minutes ago, OnTheBag said:

What part of the country are you in?  Are you guys open all year?

upper Midwest. Water is free. Not open year round. Generally close the course in November or December and reopen in march or April. 

[OnTheBag]

1 minute ago, klebs01 said:

upper Midwest. Water is free. Not open year round. Generally close the course in November or December and reopen in march or April. 

I'm in the deep south where we play year around and members expect the course to look pristine all 12 months.  That's a big difference on the cost side.

[klebs01]

1 minute ago, OnTheBag said:

I'm in the deep south where we play year around and members expect the course to look pristine all 12 months.  That's a big difference on the cost side.

absolutely.  That’s why I was saying the blanket statement of $5M+ wasn’t accurate. We just got 4” of snow. No one is expecting great conditions for another few weeks. Definitely not putting growth inhibitors down, lol. Prime conditions are only expected Memorial Day through Labor Day. Same, but opposite seasons, happens at some souther courses that have primarily a snowbird population as well. 

[King_Slender]

4 hours ago, OnTheBag said:

Your maintenance costs will exceed $5M annually if we are talking about 18 holes of exclusivity.  There is an expectation of folks willing to pay for that convenience.  Until Spring '23, I worked as the Asst Super at a country club that limited membership to invitees only and had a SUBSTANTIAL initiation fee.  Our members would be classified as uber-elite.  Operating costs are staggering.  The bar isn't stocked for Jack and Coke, it has bottles of Johnny Blue and vintage wines.  Same with the food menu. 

 

All depends on how you want the course to present and what you expect your members to pay for the privilege. 

 

We'd only serve early vintage Screaming Eagle, 50's/60's Dom Perignon, 3 local craft brews and Coors Light. 

[Hawkeye77]

I'd be happy with a nice 4 hole short course and a range and short game area.  One member - me.  Friends and guests from time to time.  I assume it would be very expensive and very time consuming to maintain which in the end is why I probably wouldn't do it if I could afford it. 

[jvincent]

Chiming in.

 

Are annual maintenance budget is currently around $1.2M CDN. This is for a 6 month season (FU winter) on a course that get a LOT of play.

 

If it were a course just for me and my friends I'm sure it would cost less just because of the reduced wear and tear and grooming required.

 

As a specific example, the grounds crew would have from sun rise until 9AM to do maintenance before I show up so they could have a much smaller crew. Right now they have to get maintenance done before the early bird tee times. Fewer divots to repair, less wear and tear on tee boxes, etc. also reduce the costs.

 

The actual turf care (regular mowing, herbicides and pesticides) ends up being the same of course.

[mizuno player]

7 hours ago, klebs01 said:

this is just false. Depending on location, costs could be as low as $600k. 
 

$2m would be a decent budget. Really depends on the scale of the amenities. 

I belonged to really nice second tier club outside DC. 1st tier would be a Congressional, our budget for the grounds was about $600k. There was a supplemental every year for tress etc... outside of the maintenance budget. We didn't have bent grass fairways only greens so that reduces some maintenance for sure. Our local golf associations held events at the club every year. That was about 10 years ago. 

 

My current club is same tier and the budget is right around 7 figures. We don't have flower gardens on every hole. We don't hand mow the greens or surrounds. Our course is far from a mid but or local muni. 

 

 2 mil a year would be a definite upscale club.  It can be done with a low budget but you do need good people and the money has to go to the right things. Also depends on the type of grass.  Rye is cheaper than bent. For sure. 

[ChipNRun]

On 3/22/2024 at 1:11 PM, King_Slender said:

Bar - they have a bar and a chef who provides the menu as-is each day

 

You need to give us more on bar/food service. Circa 2010, the average mainline private golf club lost $125,000 on food service.

 

A 2023 report from Golf Properties talks in terms on percentages: estimates of losses on food service range from 11% to 30%.

https://golfprop.com/blog/club-food-beverage-some-perspectives/

 

What is chef + bartender going to provide? Lunch only? Add dinner only on weekends?

Edited March 27 by ChipNRun
Recast Golf Prop link.

[david.c.w]

For a 12 month club grounds will cost $2M+.  Assume another $2M for Ohoopee style cabins and restaurant/bar.

[Dancin]

Just the golf course in the right location in the country could be maintained well for 8-9 months a year for around $1 million assuming you already have all the equipment purchased and are ok with brown looks that plays fast and firm instead of ultra lush green. You'd still need to be putting money away for equipment replacement and an eventual irrigation system redo after 15-20 years.

[TexasTurf]

Lol at everyone who fed the troll. Many of you are numbers guys, don't engage with nonsense.

 

The real answer is you can run a club with whatever number you choose, but you will never have enough to satisfy everyone. But also no one is going to work for you if they have to go into debt for the "opportunity."

[TexasTurf]

However, I can start a 1 man golf course stump grinding business in any major city tomorrow without having to manage anyone and make over $100,000 / year easy. Why would I sign on to run your half a** course for less?

[mallrat]

I’ll bite a little bit. First let me add some background. We are a year round course that is probably 80% Poa. We still have some Bent here and there (mainly in the fairways) but we manage it for Poa. We seed anything besides greens and collections with P Rye (4 day germination period but always takes longer) and let the Poa take over. We have 3 nurseries and have roughly 350k sq ft of greens including those. Now I drop the Poa reference because Poa is the only variety that has no natural immunity to certain diseases or has been grown to be resistant to a certain disease. So we have to spray for everything and often. We also have probably the most aggressive sanding program around and our sand (just top dressing is $60k a yr.) Our spray budget varies greatly but it just increased drastically in the last 2 years because we now have to spray wall to wall for billbug instead of greens and collections. 
 

Now our saving grace is water. We are sitting on 2 wells and don’t pay a cent for water. Both wells can provide over 100 gpm. 
 

We also just bought 2 new fairway mowers with an extra set of reels to the tune of $120k+ each. We are also pricing rollers at about $50k. 
 

Now if this is an ultra high end course I imagine your budget is “get it done.” Which translates to “we will bill the members at the end of the year.” Being a stand alone course you are at a disadvantage in terms of pricing, a previous course was a member of the Troon network and received 20% off equipment for being a part of that network. Your initial investment is going to be insane for that department. Tractors, aerifiers, spray rigs, mowers, grinders, carts for the crew, tools, sand pros, blowers (back pack and pull behind), just random stuff and that doesn’t even account for the set up of the irrigation system. 
 

That said are budget isn’t even $1 million a year. 
 

Good luck
 

 

Edited March 28 by mallrat

[North Texas]

The course where I am a member has an total annual operating budget right around $5,000,000. Which doesn't put us anywhere close to the upper tier in the DFW area for private courses. More like in the lower 25% if I had to guess. 

 

I don't know what our maintenance budget is but we do have bent greens and plain old bermuda fairway grass. And we, meaning our superintendent obviously, manage to keep our fairways and greens in much better than average shape considering the limited resources for a club our size. 

Edited March 28 by North Texas