NOW THIS !!! IS HOW A CLEVELAND CLASSIC SHOULD LOOK

[rybo]

Ok here is my update after playing 18 earlier today.

Club: Cleveland DST Tour 8.5* with a Dynalite Gold X100 tipped 2 1/2" @ 44 1/2" and D8 (9 gram tip weight), midsize Lamkin Crossline. At best it has a square face angle, Normally play 1-2* open.
Me: 115-119mph, + handicap, played professional golf the past few years, 6' 4" 245lbs

First and foremost, hit driver on 13 holes, which is 2-3 more then the norm, and the most noticeable thing was ball striking. 12 of the 13 were dead center on the club face. I mean literally one right on top of the other. The odd one out was a hellatious, overconfident mess of a swing that hit way out on the toe. No shaft/head combo would have saved it! hahahaha (but I was able to find it and hit it again!)

Distance: Definitely shorter then my usual Cobra ZL Encore 9.5* set open (so 8*), 45 1/4" UST Mamiya TourSPX Black 6X. HOWEVER, the steel was not as far back as I expected and on a two holes in particular the ball ended up where I have hit some of my best drives in the past. So it's not so short to the point where I would not play it. Miss hits however were definitely shorter. Oddly I hit two cuts that still hit perfectly in the center but distance was about 25 yards behind my norm. Not sure if the Dynalite shaft is the right shaft for me. I also have a couple Dynamic Gold Lite shafts still to try and will pick up a couple standard Dynamic Gold's to try. Our third hole is a drivable par 4 from the white tee boxes(this was the one hole I did not hit driver on from the back tees), it's 308 yards on the card with a pond in front of the green, so all carry. Wanting to see what the steely would do I hit a shot from the up tee box and was pin high but right of the green, off by 7 paces. So it's long for sure!

Dispersion: This is where the steel was unbelievable! The shaft feels so stable that even bad shots just do not get that far off line. They may fall shorter then with graphite, but you will find it and be able to hit it again. Good shots were nice tight draws with some roll out. FYI our course was closed the past two days due to Isaac going by and we got 5-6" of rain. I wasn't expecting any roll out but there was some. 7th hole is a par 5 that is reachable with a good drive and a solid 3 wood. Feeling good by now with the club I reached back for a bit more and hit a bit of a pull that stayed on the left edge of the fairway. I have no doubt that same shot with my usual driver would have been in the left woods. Hit 11 of 13 fairways when hitting driver.

Feel/sound: I didn't know what to expect from a steel shaft and a titanium head combo but the sound and feel were surprisingly muted, a very good thing imo. The steel shaft while heavy was lively. I was worried the weight would be a distraction but it was quite the opposite, made the club feel very in control. Oddly I have a couple of graphite driver shafts in the 95g and 105g range but they feel nothing like the steel. I have to think the nature of the steel material being an elastic material and graphite being a brittle material is playing some role in this.

Overall: I will definitely be trying some other steel shafted drivers as the ball striking and dispersion were phenomenal, well beyond my expectations or any graphite shafted driver I have in the past few years! The distance was good and very playable but I have to think with the right head, loft and shaft combo it could easily keep up or over take my current driver. Another FYI, I am/was really happy with my current driver so it's not like I was hitting it bad or looking for some magic here. Much the opposite, current driver has been very good for a while and was looking to try something new after reading the thread!

I'm just old enough, that when I started playing golf in the early 1980's wood headed steel shaft drivers were the norm. I did play steel headed drivers in high school(TaylorMade Burner Plus with a head smaller then most hybrids today) but graphite was still a few years off.

My hats off to you ROBO, I would never heave tried this if not for this thread. And would love to hear some more info on that steely ZLE you are hitting. Hope you are safe at the moment!

[rybo]

Damn it!! As soon as I finished writing my review I couldn't stop thinking about today so went right out and pulled a shaft out of Cobra tip and reshafted it with a Dynamic Golf Lite X100 tipped 2", 44 1/2" D5. Already dried and gripped!! Playing in the morning so I'll have a go with it tomorrow! Now the decision becomes which Cobra; 9.5* ZLE, 10.5* ZLE, 10.5* AMP, or 10.5* S3...........decisions, decisions, decisions

[ROBOPTI]

[quote name='rybo' timestamp='1346272786' post='5556707']
My hats off to you ROBO, I would never heave tried this if not for this thread. And would love to hear some more info on that steely ZLE you are hitting. Hope you are safe at the moment!
[/quote]

HEY !!! .. I just got power - for now ... been off & on ....

AWESOME write up rybo !!!

TRUST ME though - MY OPINION

Get below 44 inches and increse the headweight to offest the reduced length. I bet money you actually get LONGER with it in a shorter setup.

Also ...

Forget all the brainwashing we have all been thru over the last 2-3-4 years. You dont need to tip the bejesus out of steel - in my opinion - it is so stable let the shaft flex and and bomb it ... the steel will do all the controlling for you.

I actually have a couple x300 setups - 43.50 & 43.75 - UNTIPPED - and they ROCK !!!!!!

44 1/2 is a TON of weight with steel - swingweight at that

Psssttt ... Tiger's was 43.50 - and I think he did OK with it in 2000

GOTTA GO ... Wind is picking up again !!!!

[rybo]

I hear ya ROBO! I'll give the 44 1/2" a go tomorrow and see how it works. It's only D5 which is only a point or two higher then I normally play. I have a Midsize Lamkin on it with 3R/2L wraps so that's helping the swingweight issue. I added a 4g tip weight to get it to D5.

Being we are similar in height, don't you find the 43 1/2" a bit on the short side?

[Orlimar1]

I went 9/13 today in fairways hit and almost set a new pb at my home course with a 75 on a par 71.

[u][size=5][b]If you're on the fence, it's a CHEAP experiment. TRY IT!![/b][/size][/u]

[fore]

It's surprising that steel ever became so unpopular. I tried graphite years ago but didn't like the results. I thought maybe it was because I just wouldn't spend the money for a high end graphite shaft. After reading this thread I'm glad I didn't waste the money. Steel just works more consistently for me. Similar to graphite shafted irons I tried. They seemed more sensitive to the slightest inconsistencies of my swing causing more distance and line inaccuracies than steel.

[titleist26]

Ok well im on the bandwagon! put an s300 in my 910d3 and I am ripping it. no real loss of distance and the dispersion and feel is great.
its tipped to play a bit stiffer but the ball flight could be better. I have it at 44" at the moment so I will be tipping it further to get the ball flight right.
All in all I think this is a real winner and with a bit of tweaking will be awesome.

[bushwood]

Anyone get a chance to test on a launch monitor yet?

[rybo]

Quick update from today's round.

Tried the Dynamic Gold Lite in the 9.5* ZL Encore and it is ridiculously soft in the upper and mid sections of the shaft compared to the Dynalite Gold. Both are X100's but the Dynalite Gold plays/feels a whole lot stiffer. The DG Lite/ZLE combo was very spinny. High and short, with an occasional ok shot. Hit the DST/Dynalite combo side by side on a few holes and the difference was quite noticeable.

I'll pull the DG Lite and install a Dynalite Gold into a Cobra tip and try again. That's all for now....

[PixlPutterman]

Just received a DGSL S300 for my second steely. Cant decide if it should go in the JVS or D................what say all ye scallywags

[azgreg]

I will be taking a TM R580 with TT DG S300 for it's first trip out onto the course this afternoon.

[Kattrax63]

Suggestions on what drivers off of the 'bay I should try for this steely experiment.

anything around $100, thanks.

[blindwillie]

[quote name='azgreg' timestamp='1346424902' post='5565603']
I will be taking a TM R580 with TT DG S300 for it's first trip out onto the course this afternoon.
[/quote]

Looking forward to hearing about the DG S300. I have one going in a 9* Cleveland Classic 290. Tipping it 1 1/4 inch and hoping to get SW to D2

[ej002]

[quote name='drumdude96' timestamp='1344965407' post='5470310']
Here you go fellas.



Shaft Brand: TRUE TEMPER Shaft Name: Dynamic Gold .335 Tip Wood Shaft Category: Steel Wood Shafts

Flex Driver #2 #3 #4 #5 #7 #9

R200 1 1/4 1 1/2 1 3/4 2 2 1/4 2 1/4 2 1/4
R300 1 1/4 1 1/2 1 3/4 2 2 1/4 2 1/4 2 1/4
R400 1 1/4 1 1/2 1 3/4 2 2 1/4 2 1/4 2 1/4
S200 1 1/4 1 1/2 1 3/4 2 2 1/4 2 1/4 2 1/4
S300 1 1/4 1 1/2 1 3/4 2 2 1/4 2 1/4 2 1/4
S400 1 1/4 1 1/2 1 3/4 2 2 1/4 2 1/4 2 1/4
X100 1 1/4 1 1/2 1 3/4 2 2 1/4 2 1/4 2 1/4
X200 1 1/4 1 1/2 1 3/4 2 2 1/4 2 1/4 2 1/4
NOTE:
For Through-bore subtract 1 1/4", for Blind bore subtract 3/4
[/quote]
This is valuable info and explains why the 5wood I built earlier this year was a wet noodle. I was an inch and quarter off on my tipping.


I am going to try this in an S9-1 Pro D. Can someone provide some guidlines on selecting a head. One person mentioned that we should go DOWN in loft. Or would we go up?

ROBO - how is distance with the 3 wood steely?

[blink3665]

Ok, sorry if this is a stupid question... check that.... Sorry for the stupid question.

What is it about the steel shafts that is helping everyone? Is it the extra weight? Is it a change in torque, or how the shaft loads?

i have a RIP 80 stiff that I just put in my 380 ezone and I love how heavy it feels. Is this the feeling you guys are getting from steel, or is there something more than that?

[gqjeff]

Have an 8.5 LS ready to try with x100 tipped 2". Also have a TM tip shafted up with an x100 tipped 1.5" and will try it with r11s head and rbz tour head both 10.5 playing 9.5. All r set to play at 44"

[bushwood]

[quote name='blink3665' timestamp='1346441141' post='5567161']
Ok, sorry if this is a stupid question... check that.... Sorry for the stupid question.

What is it about the steel shafts that is helping everyone? Is it the extra weight? Is it a change in torque, or how the shaft loads?

i have a RIP 80 stiff that I just put in my 380 ezone and I love how heavy it feels. Is this the feeling you guys are getting from steel, or is there something more than that?
[/quote]

I havent even gotten my shaft in yet, but ive had great results going back to my old 980F 3w with steel. But i am expecting good results with a steel in the driver, and i base that on many of Mr Tom WIshon's advice in the clubfitting forum. I had been struggling with longer driver shafts, and 2 of his bits of advice hit home with me. One, was his criteria for why one would benefit for a shorter shaft. and part of that was that it's harder to square the clubface on longer shafts unless you have a crazy late release, which i do not. earlyish release players benefit from shorter shafts. secondly, he said that physically stronger guys benefit from shorter shafts and heavier shafts. i have been playing an 85 gram axivcore per all of his tips, and am hitting it better. But i think the heavier weight of a steel will help me even more. i had decided i needed to try steel again before i ever read this thread, and after following it for the last few days, i am even more excited about the experiment. the main differences in comparing a 3w with steel vs a 3w with graphite or even a driver with graphite, is i dont feel like i have to hold anything back. i just go at it hard and it goes straight. i know its a 3 wood, but its only an inch and quarter shorter than the driver w/ steel will play.

i am a 6.9 index and the driver is the weak part of my game. so really hoping this is a good switch. last time i can remember being confident with a driver was with a big bertha with steel and taylormade 200 series with steel. And thats a long time ago. i am a much better player now than back then, but the driver has never caught up with the rest of the game.

[ej002]

I guess at the end of the day, if you are going to cut a graphite shaft down 2 inches or 1.5, you are going to have to tape up the head to get the swing weight up. So any increased weight has on steel is going to have to go back into the head of a short graphite driver (like 20gs). With steel the 20 grams is spread out - so maybe in effect steel is better for shorter length drivers?

bushwood, did you lose distance with your woods with steel?

[bushwood]

i went from an adams fast 11 titanium with voodoo 3W back to the titleist. Distance is about the same. to be honest i am not the best 3w wood player. or at least i havent been. i feel like i am again now. i've probably used 3w off the tee about 12 times in the last 3 rounds and i havent missed a fairway, or even my target yet. and i am swinging hard. i have a swing speed radar to practice with and my swing speed on the range with my 3w w/ steel probably averaged 98 mph. some over 100. My on course swing with my driver (my swing to try and keep it play) is about the same. i just cant go after the ball confidently with my current driver. i should have some better feedback once my s300 with F12 LS tip arrives.

[rybo]

[quote name='blink3665' timestamp='1346441141' post='5567161']
Ok, sorry if this is a stupid question... check that.... Sorry for the stupid question.

What is it about the steel shafts that is helping everyone? Is it the extra weight? Is it a change in torque, or how the shaft loads?

i have a RIP 80 stiff that I just put in my 380 ezone and I love how heavy it feels. Is this the feeling you guys are getting from steel, or is there something more than that?
[/quote]

This is a great question as it has me a bit baffled at the moment.

I do not think it's the shorter length as my graphite drivers usually range from 44 3/4-45 1/2" in length and the steely is 44 1/2" right to the end of the grip cap. So they're close enough that it shouldn't make a difference.

Torque - this could be a whole topic in itself (and there are plenty all ready!!) Interestingly steel does have lower torque compared to graphite BUT they feel totally different due to the nature of the materials. Elastic vs brittle. It's a lower torque but it doesn't feel harsh like any low torque graphite I've ever hit. Maybe a bit more to this then meets the eye. Sure graphite kills vibration, just look at bicycle frames, but they are extremely rigid. I have to wonder if all of this rigidity is in someway effecting the feed back we are getting from the shaft. Steel feels a lot smoother then graphite to me.

Weight - I think this is probably the main contributor. I have gone through my stash of graphite shafts and pulled out a 95 gram Harrison Pro 2.5 and a 95g and 105g Harrison Mugen. I was talking with a friend telling him the experiment with the steel and he reminded me I used to kill a Ping G5 that had a Aldila NV 95X in it. I had completely forgotten about that club but he was right. It treated me great, long and very accurate. Head broke and off I went in another direction.

Something not brought up a lot in this thread is head weight. The heavier head could be moving the balance point along with the increased shaft weight. I have not checked this but expect the BP would be in a different place.



Not sure any one thing is doing it. However the result seems to be greater then the sum of the individual pieces.

[blink3665]

So if this works so well in a driver and some great results in 3 woods.... what about hybrids? I don't play a 3 wood, I hop directly from driver to 15*, 19*, and 23* hybrids. What would the effect be on those if you kept the same length shaft? Would it be too heavy, or would you want to play a shorter shaft?

[fore]

[quote name='blink3665' timestamp='1346448297' post='5567661']
So if this works so well in a driver and some great results in 3 woods.... what about hybrids? I don't play a 3 wood, I hop directly from driver to 15*, 19*, and 23* hybrids. What would the effect be on those if you kept the same length shaft? Would it be too heavy, or would you want to play a shorter shaft?
[/quote]

I had graphite in my 21 degree TM Rescue TP and preferred a long iron until I finally put a Dynamic Gold in it. It has a much more solid feel.

[azgreg]

[quote name='blink3665' timestamp='1346448297' post='5567661']
So if this works so well in a driver and some great results in 3 woods.... what about hybrids? I don't play a 3 wood, I hop directly from driver to 15*, 19*, and 23* hybrids. What would the effect be on those if you kept the same length shaft? Would it be too heavy, or would you want to play a shorter shaft?
[/quote]

Everything I play (except) putter has TT DG S300 shafts in them. Love the feel (and the price). I am currently not playing any hybrids (love the V-Steels), but when I did I had the same shafts in them and loved them as well. I'm a big guy (6'4", 250lbs) and love the weight if the steels.

[azgreg]

[quote name='blindwillie' timestamp='1346430532' post='5566187']
[quote name='azgreg' timestamp='1346424902' post='5565603']
I will be taking a TM R580 with TT DG S300 for it's first trip out onto the course this afternoon.
[/quote]

Looking forward to hearing about the DG S300. I have one going in a 9* Cleveland Classic 290. Tipping it 1 1/4 inch and hoping to get SW to D2
[/quote]

Loved it. I have had some practice, been playing the V-Steels with the same shafts for a little while and love the feel. Today tied my best round of the year, 78 (36 on the front). The course was short (6200 yards), but I've never been better tee to green than I was today.

[blink3665]

Thanks for all the extra input. I really just wanted to know how many of these things I needed to order at once The real problem with this is that I will need to get a shaft puller... Any benefit from the cheaper shafts will be gone with the cost of even a cheap puller I should have invested in one a long time ago. I already have a very expensive tomato stake!

Boy are my friends going to look at me funny when I roll up with a bag full of steel!

[azgreg]

[quote name='blink3665' timestamp='1346452001' post='5567929']
Thanks for all the extra input. I really just wanted to know how many of these things I needed to order at once The real problem with this is that I will need to get a shaft puller... Any benefit from the cheaper shafts will be gone with the cost of even a cheap puller I should have invested in one a long time ago. I already have a very expensive tomato stake!

[b]Boy are my friends going to look at me funny when I roll up with a bag full of steel[/b]!
[/quote]

Yep, I got that look today, but when we were done and I was 10 strokes the better I was the only one smiling.

[SteveL1]

Have the RBZ 15* 3w and an R11 tip glued up with old Rifle Lite 6.5's and ready to test! The white RBZ & R11 heads look kind of cool with the steel shaft as funny as that sounds. Now if I can just get the rain to let up some tomorrow.

[BennyG19]

So who out there in WRX world has the knowledge and is willing to put a steel shaft into an R11 or R9 adaptor for my 9* R11 head. I'll gladly pay you to do it. I really want to try this but don't have the knowledge or tools to put a shaft together. I could just get some heavier weights for the head to change the swingweight, right? Help me, help me please!!

I've never liked graphite shafts and only have them in my driver and fw wood for the past 10 years, but half the time the fw wood comes out of my bag or never gets used.

Please help me!

[bushwood]

[quote name='BennyG19' timestamp='1346452981' post='5568007']
So who out there in WRX world has the knowledge and is willing to put a steel shaft into an R11 or R9 adaptor for my 9* R11 head. I'll gladly pay you to do it. I really want to try this but don't have the knowledge or tools to put a shaft together. I could just get some heavier weights for the head to change the swingweight, right? Help me, help me please!!

I've never liked graphite shafts and only have them in my driver and fw wood for the past 10 years, but half the time the fw wood comes out of my bag or never gets used.

Please help me!
[/quote]

Ken at victory custom golf has a fully built s300 in an Adams tip headed my way. If you want his info you can pm me.

[PixlPutterman]

[quote name='Kattrax63' timestamp='1346430199' post='5566133']
Suggestions on what drivers off of the 'bay I should try for this steely experiment.

anything around $100, thanks.
[/quote]

Sumo 4950 or Sumo Tour