44 inch driver.....WOW!

[jsanatx]

that's exactly my point, some of us are weekend hackers that just want to hit more fairways and gain a few yards. While i agree that all the technical characteristics are important, it is not the driving force when choosing to play a 44 or 45 inch driver.

[Lord Helmet]

[quote name='jsanatx' timestamp='1366383850' post='6877881']
that's exactly my point, some of us are weekend hackers that just want to hit more fairways and gain a few yards. While i agree that all the technical characteristics are important, it is not the driving force when choosing to play a 44 or 45 inch driver.
[/quote]

So are you saying I made your point for you?

[ocburg17]

44.5" here and will chock up if I need to hit a fairway. I have never had an issue with slight swing weight changes.

[Sonny217]

Please forgive a dumb question.

Is the length just the shaft, from butt to ferrule? Or to somewhere else?

[Florida Gator]

I was fitted to a 44" Driver, an 8.5* Razr FE with a Nunchuk. I am hitting it longer and much more accurately with this setup. I cant even hit a 45"+ setup now.

[Lord Helmet]

[quote name='Sonny217' timestamp='1366387757' post='6878281']
Please forgive a dumb question.

Is the length just the shaft, from butt to ferrule? Or to somewhere else?
[/quote]

Are you asking what the total length of the club is after cutting the butt end to reduce the shaft length?

[Wordmixer]

Glad to find some fellow "shorties" here. I too had played a 45" driver (Adams F11) and found that with my 101 mph swing speed off the tee I often hit my 43" 13* Sonartec SS-07 3-wood (more like a 2-wood) just as far, though with less carry and more roll. One afternoon I even teed up 3 ProVs for each club and found a whopping difference of 3 yards. So I wondered if there was some happy "middle ground" between the 460cc Adams and the tiny-by-comparison sub-200cc Sonartec. I acquired an old school Titleist driver, a 975L-FE 9.5* (the thing is probably between 330 and 350cc) and had installed in it a Purple Ice 65s shaft. The Titleist's total length is 44 1/8, and it is the purest feeling, most fairway-hitting driver I've ever owned. Some of the guys I play with keep looking at the club like "What is that small thing?"

Bottom line: 44" driver = narrower shot dispersion off the tee = boost in confidence.

[Sonny217]

[quote name='Lord Helmet' timestamp='1366393497' post='6878777']
[quote name='Sonny217' timestamp='1366387757' post='6878281']
Please forgive a dumb question.

Is the length just the shaft, from butt to ferrule? Or to somewhere else?
[/quote]

Are you asking what the total length of the club is after cutting the butt end to reduce the shaft length?
[/quote]

A 45"driver measures 45" from where to where.

[Tellsch]

Via a club ruler. You can do it yourself if you have a 48" aluminum ruler. Here is the easiest way: http://blog.hirekogolf.com/2009/06/measuring-club-length-the-easy-way-%E2%80%93-hireko%E2%80%99s-ruler-buddy/

Otherwise, take it to a golf shop, all of them will be able to measure it.

[Lord Helmet]

[quote name='Sonny217' timestamp='1366396292' post='6879087']
[quote name='Lord Helmet' timestamp='1366393497' post='6878777']
[quote name='Sonny217' timestamp='1366387757' post='6878281']
Please forgive a dumb question.

Is the length just the shaft, from butt to ferrule? Or to somewhere else?
[/quote]

Are you asking what the total length of the club is after cutting the butt end to reduce the shaft length?
[/quote]

A 45"driver measures 45" from where to where.
[/quote]

Hey, see tell tellsch response, he nailed the answer. Easy to do. G luck.

[Sonny217]

[quote name='Tellsch' timestamp='1366396664' post='6879121']
Via a club ruler. You can do it yourself if you have a 48" aluminum ruler. Here is the easiest way: http://blog.hirekogolf.com/2009/06/measuring-club-length-the-easy-way-%E2%80%93-hireko%E2%80%99s-ruler-buddy/

Otherwise, take it to a golf shop, all of them will be able to measure it.
[/quote]

That link is perfect. Thank you!

[sm_watts]

I ended last year with a 44" TM Burner 2007 TP that I hit pretty good, but just put together a Ping i20 with a Bimatrix shaft that is 44.25". I was worried about swingweight, so I went with a relatively heavier head (204g) and it came out between D3-D4 without adding any extra weight.

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='KWig' timestamp='1366378497' post='6877355']
Do most guys who play shorter length drivers use heavier shafts in them as well? Just curious that if you use a shorter shaft, will the decrease in overall club weight cause problems?

Thanks!

KW
[/quote]

Don't know about others, but I do. I've been playing 43.5" drivers since that was the standard length (yeah, I'm a seasoned citizen). These days, I have to use shafts in the 80gm or higher range to get proper feel. HOWEVER, if your preferred driver has adjustable weighting, that is not always the case. I can use a 65gm shaft in my R11 and just change the head weights. Works really well.

[storm319]

[quote name='kloyd0306' timestamp='1366342418' post='6876105']
[quote name='DevilDog' timestamp='1366307420' post='6872351']
Tom WIshon should ring in on this. A longer driver doesn't always mean better if you struggle to square it up and hit the center of the face consistently. He has some great data on it.
[/quote]
Agreed. His research, using a robot set at 90mph and five different length shafts (42 to 46) found that the extra carry gained by the 46 inch vs the 42 inch shaft was a hefty 4 feet! The major OEMs are NOT helping the average handicap golfer with 46 inch shafts.
[/quote]

If the 90 mph is referring to the speed of the club head, then the shaft length does not matter in this case. If the club heads were moving at the same speed at impact the ball speed would be the same given all other variables remain the same.

Now if the force applied to the club is the same, the club head speed at impact will be increased on the longer shafted club which would in turn increase ball speed (again if all other variables remain the same).

[playgolf111]

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1366381019' post='6877613']
[quote name='Flyersby99' timestamp='1366303694' post='6871977']
I decided to give it a try and have used it for about 6 weeks and I am hitting it great. Most drives are now 10-15 yards longer than my 3 wood and I am hitting the sweet spot more.

I realize, all things equal, a 45/46 inch driver will go further than a 44 inch but man I am hitting the sweet spot on a regular basis now. If I took my total yardage on my 10-14 drives a round my total yardage would be signifigantly more with the shorter shaft. Plus I now have the confidence of hitting the fairway with my driver which clears the first mental hurdle of eacj hole

I am excited now to pull the driver and cannot believe the dumb luck that I stumbled upon to try this setup.
[/quote]

Good for you and glad you "took the plunge" to go shorter. What you are seeing is precisely what the vast majority of players see when they go shorter from the current industry "standards" of 45-46+".

We teach clubmakers in our writings from our fitting research that the ONLY golfers who can possibly do well with a driver of 45" or longer are those with each of the following swing characteristics - 1) inside out to square swing path; 2) gradual transition force with smoother tempo; 3) later to very late release; 4) good over all golf athletic ability with a consistent swing rhythm.

If the golfer doesn't have all of those going for him, then he is going to be much better off overall with a 44" or shorter length driver.

TOM
[/quote]
I cut the shaft from my new Titleist 913D2 from 45 to 44.5. Testet both shaft lengt an even the half inch is a big different. So do i need to change the weight for only half inch ?

[Lord Helmet]

I wouldnt mess with it if you were pleased with the results. I didnt mess with mine at all. G luck!

[IAHacker]

You can change the grip to a lighter one and the swing weight will be higher. I cut my driver to 44.5 and put a very light weight Golf Pride in and the swing weight increases to D4.

[WT Door]

[quote name='IAHacker' timestamp='1366522869' post='6886503']
You can change the grip to a lighter one and the swing weight will be higher. I cut my driver to 44.5 and put a very light weight Golf Pride in and the swing weight increases to D4.
[/quote]

I did this and noticed a slight difference in feel but some folks say they can't.

Also, when I cut down my first shaft, I found I did not have to add as much lead tape to the head as the standard rules of thumb suggest to get the weight back to target.

[TomWishon]

[quote name='playgolf111' timestamp='1366485029' post='6883877']

I cut the shaft from my new Titleist 913D2 from 45 to 44.5. Testet both shaft lengt an even the half inch is a big different. So do i need to change the weight for only half inch ?
[/quote]

The rule of thumb when cutting just 1/2" from an existing driver is to start by doing nothing to the headweight. Go out and hit shots over 2 to 3 ball striking sessions on different days, and focus on whether you think the head weight feel as you swing the club is ok or a little too light. Focus especially on what you feel from the head when you start the downswing. If the head feels even the least bit light, then that tells you that you should add a little weight to the head. Other factors in this are if you start to sense that you are getting a little quick with the start of the downswing than before, that too is saying you could use a little more weight in the head.

There is for every golfer a specific head weight feel that results in just the right amount of "lag feeling" when you start the downswing so the head feel is not too light or too heavy. What that is can be quite different from one golfer to the next based on their sense of feel and their sense for their swing tempo, timing and rhythm.

TOM

[cardoustie]

I used to be a big fan of 44.5" and 85 or 95 in driver. I also liked the driver to be d6 to d8. Fairway finders !!!!!!!!!!!!

Shorter and heavier were great for me and I seem to have forgotten that the last four seasons in the quest for more distance ..... DOH !

Have gone to 95g in 4 and 7 woods and in love with those now.

44.75" with 73 gram fubuki currently in driver ... but may need to find a suitable 85 gram shaft and knock off another 1/4".

[playgolf111]

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1366649554' post='6893639']
[quote name='playgolf111' timestamp='1366485029' post='6883877']
I cut the shaft from my new Titleist 913D2 from 45 to 44.5. Testet both shaft lengt an even the half inch is a big different. So do i need to change the weight for only half inch ?
[/quote]

The rule of thumb when cutting just 1/2" from an existing driver is to start by doing nothing to the headweight. Go out and hit shots over 2 to 3 ball striking sessions on different days, and focus on whether you think the head weight feel as you swing the club is ok or a little too light. Focus especially on what you feel from the head when you start the downswing. If the head feels even the least bit light, then that tells you that you should add a little weight to the head. Other factors in this are if you start to sense that you are getting a little quick with the start of the downswing than before, that too is saying you could use a little more weight in the head.

There is for every golfer a specific head weight feel that results in just the right amount of "lag feeling" when you start the downswing so the head feel is not too light or too heavy. What that is can be quite different from one golfer to the next based on their sense of feel and their sense for their swing tempo, timing and rhythm.

TOM
[/quote]
Thank you very much Tom.

best regards
Harry

[mark092974]

I'm having mine cut to 44 but hot melted to bring the weight back up to D 3. According to a guy at one of our local shops that is what a large number of pros do.

[markheardjr]

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1366381019' post='6877613']
2) gradual transition force with smoother tempo; 3) later to very late release;
TOM
[/quote]

Can you help me understand the characteristics of these two statements? They seem at odds with each other to me. Usually someone I think of having a very late release is not someone I'd think of having a "smooth tempo."

[TomWishon]

[quote name='markheardjr' timestamp='1366666717' post='6895443']
[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1366381019' post='6877613']
2) gradual transition force with smoother tempo; 3) later to very late release;
TOM
[/quote]

Can you help me understand the characteristics of these two statements? They seem at odds with each other to me. Usually someone I think of having a very late release is not someone I'd think of having a "smooth tempo."
[/quote]

Think about Fred Couples' swing, or even Ernie Els. These are both players with a smooth tempo, gradual acceleration of the club from its transition point, and yet both do definitely have a late release. Just because someone may have a higher swing speed or a late release does not automatically mean that they are very aggressive with their transition and fast with their downswing tempo.

Now think of Sergio Garcia's swing. He has a strong transition move to start the downswing and very quickly accelerates the club through the downswing from that transition move, and also has a late release.

TOM

[markheardjr]

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1366667384' post='6895511']
[quote name='markheardjr' timestamp='1366666717' post='6895443']
[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1366381019' post='6877613']
2) gradual transition force with smoother tempo; 3) later to very late release;
TOM
[/quote]

Can you help me understand the characteristics of these two statements? They seem at odds with each other to me. Usually someone I think of having a very late release is not someone I'd think of having a "smooth tempo."
[/quote]

Think about Fred Couples' swing, or even Ernie Els. These are both players with a smooth tempo, gradual acceleration of the club from its transition point, and yet both do definitely have a late release. Just because someone may have a higher swing speed or a late release does not automatically mean that they are very aggressive with their transition and fast with their downswing tempo.

Now think of Sergio Garcia's swing. He has a strong transition move to start the downswing and very quickly accelerates the club through the downswing from that transition move, and also has a late release.

TOM
[/quote]

I am very Sergio-esque in my swing with a bit of a JB Holmes 9 o'clock top positin. Quite a bit of lag on the downswing and a flip through. I have a harder transition and quick acceleration on the downswing but I don't know that I have a very-late release. I don't know that I ever really get my wrists cocked. I don't see that 90° bend in my wrists almost anywhere in my swing other than maybe at the top position. My usual miss is either a block right or a quick snap but I have been working on getting rid of those. I have pretty much eliminated the left side now but I still get a few high blocks once in a while. I'm not playing a 45.5" RBZ with a Tour-AD BB7x. I'm thinking of knocking it down to 44.75" in hopes to not get stuck and avoid those blocks. I think the longer shaft length is keeping me from making a full release. FYI, I'm not a swing expert and I have never had a formal lesson so I'm not even sure if I'm using the right terms.

[kloyd0306]

[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1366471363' post='6883137']
[quote name='kloyd0306' timestamp='1366342418' post='6876105']
[quote name='DevilDog' timestamp='1366307420' post='6872351']
Tom WIshon should ring in on this. A longer driver doesn't always mean better if you struggle to square it up and hit the center of the face consistently. He has some great data on it.
[/quote]
Agreed. His research, using a robot set at 90mph and five different length shafts (42 to 46) found that the extra carry gained by the 46 inch vs the 42 inch shaft was a hefty 4 feet! The major OEMs are NOT helping the average handicap golfer with 46 inch shafts.
[/quote]

If the 90 mph is referring to the speed of the club head, then the shaft length does not matter in this case. If the club heads were moving at the same speed at impact the ball speed would be the same given all other variables remain the same.

Now if the force applied to the club is the same, the club head speed at impact will be increased on the longer shafted club which would in turn increase ball speed (again if all other variables remain the same).
[/quote]
The robot was set to 90mph. Therefore, yes, the force is the same. I believe he made a worthwhile discovery which puts much doubt into the OEMs continued promotion of longer, and often, uncontrollable shaft lengths for the average Joe for virtually no increase in distance. Marketing departments are running the industry.

[TomWishon]

[quote name='markheardjr' timestamp='1366670001' post='6895739']

I am very Sergio-esque in my swing with a bit of a JB Holmes 9 o'clock top positin. Quite a bit of lag on the downswing and a flip through. I have a harder transition and quick acceleration on the downswing but I don't know that I have a very-late release. I don't know that I ever really get my wrists cocked. I don't see that 90° bend in my wrists almost anywhere in my swing other than maybe at the top position. My usual miss is either a block right or a quick snap but I have been working on getting rid of those. I have pretty much eliminated the left side now but I still get a few high blocks once in a while. I'm not playing a 45.5" RBZ with a Tour-AD BB7x. I'm thinking of knocking it down to 44.75" in hopes to not get stuck and avoid those blocks. I think the longer shaft length is keeping me from making a full release. FYI, I'm not a swing expert and I have never had a formal lesson so I'm not even sure if I'm using the right terms.
[/quote]

From the standpoint of the relationship of the wrist-c o c k angle to fitting, a late release has nothing to do with how much angle there is in the wrist hinge at the end of the backswing and through the start of the downswing. That angle could be less than 90 or a lot more than 90 - what matters is WHEN that angle is unhinged on the downswing because that dictates when the arms begin to slow down and the club begins to speed up in the downswing.

I can't tell you whether you have a later release or not from your swing description. If I had to guess, it is true that most golfers who sense a definite lag of the clubhead on the downswing would have at least a later release. But there are always exceptions depending on how active the hands are on the downswing and when the hands become more active. Easiest way to know is to get someone to shoot a video of your swing with the camera facing you. Slow it down when you view it and watch for when the wrist c o c k angle starts to unhinge in relation to where your arms are on the downswing.

If you play right handed, watch where the left arm is when the wrist c o c k angle is about halfway though unhinging. Relating your left arm to the one of the hands of a clock, if the wrist c o c k angle is halfway through its release when the left arm is anywhere between 11 o'clock and 9:30, it's an early release. Left arm between 10 and 8:30 it is a midway release. Left arm between 9 and 7:30, it is a later release and left arm between 8 and 6:30 and it is a very late release. Hope that helps.

There is absolutely no question that longer driver lengths can break down the wrist c o c k angle for some golfers. Longer lengths also can force some golfers into more of an over the top, outside in move as well. We did a pretty big research project into this a few years ago and found that all these swing break down things can happen because the longer the length of the driver, the higher the driver's assembled club Moment of Inertia is. And the higher the MOI of the club, the more stress is placed on the weak points of the downswing - those chiefly being the wrist c o c k release and the swing path.

TOM

[golfer64]

I see more people are cutting their shaft down to under 45. Is the purpose making lighter, and more control? Some of these post say it increases their SS.

[PixlPutterman]

[quote name='golfer64' timestamp='1366731621' post='6900231']
I see more people are cutting their shaft down to under 45. Is the purpose making lighter, and more control? Some of these post say it increases their SS.
[/quote]

[color=#282828]More control is the reason, drivers used to be 43 inches. Once club heads were limited to COR specs, how else were club manufactures going to make distance claims for advertising? Lighter longer shafts that you can swing faster.......[/color]

[color=#282828]I play my driver at 43 inches, and steel at that....... and keep it in the fairway 270-280 all day long......[/color]

[color=#282828]and it may just be me.....but the whole swing weight arguement is hogwash to me....just do it and enjoy the results [/color]

Not saying everyone would benefit from a shorter driver, but those that are having problems with consistency, the price of your shaft is not the problem, the length is.

Just as everyone has a specific length putter they like, finding the right length driver is far more important the profile of your shaft.

[golfer64]

[quote name='PixlPutterman ' timestamp='1366732266' post='6900317']
[quote name='golfer64' timestamp='1366731621' post='6900231']
I see more people are cutting their shaft down to under 45. Is the purpose making lighter, and more control? Some of these post say it increases their SS.
[/quote]

[color=#282828]More control is the reason, drivers used to be 43 inches. Once club heads were limited to COR specs, how else were club manufactures going to make distance claims for advertising? Lighter longer shafts that you can swing faster.......[/color]

[color=#282828]I play my driver at 43 inches, and steel at that....... and keep it in the fairway 270-280 all day long......[/color]

[color=#282828]and it may just be me.....but the whole swing weight arguement is hogwash to me....just do it and enjoy the results [/color]

Not saying everyone would benefit from a shorter driver, but those that are having problems with consistency, the price of your shaft is not the problem, the length is.

Just as everyone has a specific length putter they like, finding the right length driver is far more important the profile of your shaft.
[/quote]
Do you gain or lose distance?