Tour issue clubs

So what's the deal with tour issue clubs? Are they really "hotter" than retail clubs? Other than having slightly open face angles, a "+" sign on the hosel and a loft that doesn't exactly match what is printed on club, what's the difference?

Can I make my own driver "tour issued" by digitally measuring the loft, opening the face slightly, adding some hotmelt and writing the specs on a sticker?

I just don't understand the price difference on tour issued clubs but maybe there is a real difference. Enlighten me!

So what's the deal with tour issue clubs? Are they really "hotter" than retail clubs? Other than having slightly open face angles, a "+" sign on the hosel and a loft that doesn't exactly match what is printed on club, what's the difference?

 

Can I make my own driver "tour issued" by digitally measuring the loft, opening the face slightly, adding some hotmelt and writing the specs on a sticker?

 

I just don't understand the price difference on tour issued clubs but maybe there is a real difference. Enlighten me!

I wanna know, but I'm too lazy to search

I believe they're made with tighter tolerances, therefore taking longer to produce each club head/shaft/whatever, and the price goes up from there. Quality is definitely gonna be better, but only really noticeable by a very small percentage of golfers.

they're dipped in the vans cauldron

of toursauce just prior to delivery...

in addition to tighter tolerances, better sound, feel, exclusive finishes, and preferred face, loft, and lie angles.

Depends on the type of club.

If its irons there can be major differences both in shape, size and materials used, but depends on the model etc.

Taylormade make tour issue irons that looked like retail sets but can be very different.

Specific to each club IMO. With the TM M2s that were on sale a week or so ago, it's the same head in a loft (8.5) not sold to the retail public, and with specific variables measured and given in loft, lie, weight, etc. Some claim those heads are hotter but I'm not sure there's evidence of that. With other clubs there is a specifically a tour only version that plays different than the OTR retail model. I'm talking the TM Jetspeed Tour Issue fairways and Aeroburner Tour and Yardbirds heads. The retail models were easier launching and more draw friendly, where the tour issued models were a different head entirely, often deeper faced and more neutral face angle.

It's not a straight answer. There's clubs built specifically for certain guys that are pure one-offs, Callaway for example has a bin of discarded clubs made for Phil some of which are truly one of a kind made just the way he wanted.

If it's just the tour issue version of a retail club, usually it's the same thing just tweaked to the exact specs of the player in a tour building van type setting.

Us jabronis even when we order custom specs they may still be off a bit

Yeah broad topic, but in general, I believe the clubs have a slighter higher COR (hotter face), and custom face angles, loft, and lie. I believe there's very marginal differences between TI and standards. Could be wrong though.

I'd say in TaylorMade case the specs and tolerances are much more accurate then retail version...I think you're getting more accurate specs. i.e. You can hold to if the same retail drivers next to each other and visually see one head opened or closed more than other. A Tour Issue head has exact specs written on head. IMO doubt construction is any different.

So you’re telling me....

Yeah broad topic, but in general, I believe the clubs have a slighter higher COR (hotter face), and custom face angles, loft, and lie. I believe there's very marginal differences between TI and standards. Could be wrong though.

I do not think the faces are hotter as being above .830 would be illegal to play in tournaments. The tour issue heads are the closest you can get to max cor without going over the limit. Retail on the other hand, you can have a hot head and not know it, or you can have a dud that is no where near the limit.

Yeah broad topic, but in general, I believe the clubs have a slighter higher COR (hotter face), and custom face angles, loft, and lie. I believe there's very marginal differences between TI and standards. Could be wrong though.

 

I do not think the faces are hotter as being above .830 would be illegal to play in tournaments. The tour issue heads are the closest you can get to max cor without going over the limit. Retail on the other hand, you can have a hot head and not know it, or you can have a dud that is no where near the limit.

What I meant is closer to COR limits ( higher on average than standard clubs).

My guess would be due to manufacturing tolerances there are more "too hot" clubs being played by amateurs than on tour. Tolerances swing both ways. That's just a guess though

So what's the deal with tour issue clubs? Are they really "hotter" than retail clubs? Other than having slightly open face angles, a "+" sign on the hosel and a loft that doesn't exactly match what is printed on club, what's the difference?

 

Can I make my own driver "tour issued" by digitally measuring the loft, opening the face slightly, adding some hotmelt and writing the specs on a sticker?

 

I just don't understand the price difference on tour issued clubs but maybe there is a real difference. Enlighten me!

The tour issue clubs are similar but not the same.. they are hotter faces and different faces at that. They are made to produce higher speeds, and like wise are a little tougher to hit. But As for making your own clubs tour issue, you could play around with lead tape and adding and taking off loft.

I've had a handful of tour issue clubs in my day. Most notable is the build specs to eliminate the left side (for a righty) .. hot melt in toe, open FA, flat lie angle etc etc

Though one club I got from BSG years ago .... 580xd TP driver. HOOK city. It was wild. I had 5 good players hit it and every shot was a rolling hook. Felt great but our best guess was their was a lot of hotmelt in the heel of that sucker

I think the real diff is that COR is tested to be legal and QC is tighter for paint and cosmetics etc etc. The clubs now vs even 10 years ago come in much higher quality right off the shelf

Think another thing people fail to realize is, even though it's Tour Issue and built to tighter tolerances it's still a testing process. Video of Tiger doing a clinic and getting some backup drivers to test supposedly in identical specs to his gamer and he hits one shot with one and can tell the CG is way off as the ball won't stay in the air and spin enough and he's literally done with the club.

Why a lot of folks mistakenly sell some amazing gamer club they had and later try to replace it and it's not the same.

Tolerance is much tighter. Specs are exact. Loft will be within a half degree vs 1-1.5 on a retail head. Lie is usually a little flatter. COR will be maxed where wtf knows on a retail head.

I believe they're made with tighter tolerances, therefore taking longer to produce each club head/shaft/whatever, and the price goes up from there. Quality is definitely gonna be better, but only really noticeable by a very small percentage of golfers.

Yeah that's the biggest difference with tour issue stuff and regular golf club I believe.

With few exceptions, there is no “tour issue” equipment. Same components, same factories, just hand-picked for tightest match on specs.

“Tour Issue” is a marketing term designedly to sell clubs to the masses, to perpetuate myth (even if only subconsciously) that the edge these guys have on us is equipment-related. As in, if only I could play the stuff they’re playing....

Fact is, that’s not where the edge lies.

COR will be maxed where wtf knows on a retail head.

Huge myth that continuously gets stated over and over again. There are plenty of tour issue heads that are nowhere near the limit.

Hmmm...consensus seems to be tighter tolerances on specs. So just playing devils advocate here:

Should I be offended when a manufacturer wants top dollar for quality equipment that is NOT "tour issue"? In other words, by selling "tour issue" equipment, is the manufacturer just admitting to me that their quality control and spec tolerances for us 'schlubs' is all over the damn place and they really don't care? Just curious.

I have a set of "Tour Issue" Mizuno's given to me by a friend, MP's. Looking next to MY MP's the grind on the sole is slightly different, but you really have to look close. QC during the forging is MUCH stricter, especially if it's for a specific player. I would like to tell you they FEEL lighter, but it is barely noticable.

Hmmm...consensus seems to be tighter tolerances on specs. So just playing devils advocate here:

 

Should I be offended when a manufacturer wants top dollar for quality equipment that is NOT "tour issue"? In other words, by selling "tour issue" equipment, is the manufacturer just admitting to me that their quality control and spec tolerances for us 'schlubs' is all over the damn place and they really don't care? Just curious.

Wouldn't say they are any tighter, you just get a spec sticker on many of them letting you know what the actual specs are. You can still get heads that have 9.5 stamped on the head, but the spec says 10.5, etc. There's nothing special as far as specs, just independently measured.

Hmmm...consensus seems to be tighter tolerances on specs. So just playing devils advocate here:

 

Should I be offended when a manufacturer wants top dollar for quality equipment that is NOT "tour issue"? In other words, by selling "tour issue" equipment, is the manufacturer just admitting to me that their quality control and spec tolerances for us 'schlubs' is all over the damn place and they really don't care? Just curious.

 

Wouldn't say they are any tighter, you just get a spec sticker on many of them letting you know what the actual specs are. You can still get heads that have 9.5 stamped on the head, but the spec says 10.5, etc. There's nothing special as far as specs, just independently measured.

Well see, there is the basis for my question. Should golfers be more demanding of manufacturers? At the prices we pay for equipment, should we expect that a head stamped "9.5" is really 9.5 and not 10.5 or 8.75 or whatever? Do we have a right to be more demanding for the prices we pay for "top line equipment"? That's my question.

Hmmm...consensus seems to be tighter tolerances on specs. So just playing devils advocate here:

 

Should I be offended when a manufacturer wants top dollar for quality equipment that is NOT "tour issue"? In other words, by selling "tour issue" equipment, is the manufacturer just admitting to me that their quality control and spec tolerances for us 'schlubs' is all over the damn place and they really don't care? Just curious.

 

Wouldn't say they are any tighter, you just get a spec sticker on many of them letting you know what the actual specs are. You can still get heads that have 9.5 stamped on the head, but the spec says 10.5, etc. There's nothing special as far as specs, just independently measured.

 

Well see, there is the basis for my question. Should golfers be more demanding of manufacturers? At the prices we pay for equipment, should we expect that a head stamped "9.5" is really 9.5 and not 10.5 or 8.75 or whatever? Do we have a right to be more demanding for the prices we pay for "top line equipment"? That's my question.

Maybe? I would say the majority of people have no idea that there are really tolerances. I'm sure there are lots of people that assume that what they see is what they get. I would say 90% of the golfing population doesn't run around looking at golf forums like the rest of us. In reality, we are probably a small majority. Would more emphasis be put on tolerance if more people knew and actually complained to the OEMs? Your guess is probably as good as mine on that one.

There are places where we still have the ability to acquire equipment much cheaper without paying all the extra $. Wishon used to offer the hand-picked service for I believe $5 extra per head. Not sure since Diamond Golf took over if that is still an offering or not as I haven't looked. The larger OEMs, well, they know it's not something they need to offer to worry about selling clubs, so I would guess it's not really in their best interest to do so. Would it be in ours? I would think so, but it would be hard to make that demand and see any results from it.

Sometimes the design is actually different. If you look at where TM put the weight on the M2 TOUR, it's up close to the face, making the club harder to hit for your average player. Tolerances, sure. But some of the heads are actually different so the answer is "it depends".

Hmmm...consensus seems to be tighter tolerances on specs. So just playing devils advocate here:

 

Should I be offended when a manufacturer wants top dollar for quality equipment that is NOT "tour issue"? In other words, by selling "tour issue" equipment, is the manufacturer just admitting to me that their quality control and spec tolerances for us 'schlubs' is all over the damn place and they really don't care? Just curious.

 

Wouldn't say they are any tighter, you just get a spec sticker on many of them letting you know what the actual specs are. You can still get heads that have 9.5 stamped on the head, but the spec says 10.5, etc. There's nothing special as far as specs, just independently measured.

 

Well see, there is the basis for my question. Should golfers be more demanding of manufacturers? At the prices we pay for equipment, should we expect that a head stamped "9.5" is really 9.5 and not 10.5 or 8.75 or whatever? Do we have a right to be more demanding for the prices we pay for "top line equipment"? That's my question.

If you want an idea of average MGS did an independent study- https://Not allowed because of spam.com/mgs-labs-spec-check-2017-drivers/

I miss the days when taylormade brought out a totally different driver head for tour players. The r11 dot head 420cc, r11s v2 440cc and v3 400cc. R1 had 3 different heads as well for tour players. They still make several different fairway wood heads that are tour only with different shapes and c.o.g.

I do like shopping TI for drivers and woods. My 3 and 5 are both TM TI small headed clubs. They feel amazing and i like the lower launch and spin. I like my driver around 8.5 and in the past few years have purchased TI stuff to know my 9.5 head wasn’t really starting at 10.9 degrees. I have noticed that the 17 m1 and m2 heads I’ve seen on eBay are lower CT numbers. But that may be due to them being out for a year and the choice stuff got picked over.

Hmmm...consensus seems to be tighter tolerances on specs. So just playing devils advocate here:

 

Should I be offended when a manufacturer wants top dollar for quality equipment that is NOT "tour issue"? In other words, by selling "tour issue" equipment, is the manufacturer just admitting to me that their quality control and spec tolerances for us 'schlubs' is all over the damn place and they really don't care? Just curious.

 

Wouldn't say they are any tighter, you just get a spec sticker on many of them letting you know what the actual specs are. You can still get heads that have 9.5 stamped on the head, but the spec says 10.5, etc. There's nothing special as far as specs, just independently measured.

 

Well see, there is the basis for my question. Should golfers be more demanding of manufacturers? At the prices we pay for equipment, should we expect that a head stamped "9.5" is really 9.5 and not 10.5 or 8.75 or whatever? Do we have a right to be more demanding for the prices we pay for "top line equipment"? That's my question.

No. It would make things much more expensive. Most golfers have no idea if they are hitting a 9.5 or a 10.5. That degree of loft is within the margin for error of their skill. The arnt precise enough in their swing for it to matter.

It's like someone making spaghetti Os complaining their stove says 300

When it's actually 310.