About Sam Snead's PGA Tour wins total...

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Darth PutterDarth Putter  5866WRX Points: 2,647Handicap: 10.8Members Posts: 5,866 Titanium Tees
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The details all in one spot.



https://www.golfdigest.com/story/forget-sam-snead-tiger-woods-already-has-the-tour-record-for-wins-seriously





I'm sure out of respect for Sam that Tiger won't think he has the real record until he wins #83, but the truth, as usual, is a little more complicated.













....and no one tell Richard I started this thread image/fie.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fie:' />
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  • c7015c7015  2264WRX Points: 262Members Posts: 2,264 Platinum Tees
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    ya, he answered that question very carefully in his presser where he could have just said ... I got this already
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  • farmerfarmer  8441WRX Points: 902Members Posts: 8,441 Titanium Tees
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    Snead played the tournaments that were there to play. 80 years later some of them look ridiculous, but he was trying to make a living.
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  • blblco02blblco02  573WRX Points: 112Members Posts: 573 Golden Tee
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    Let’s not forget that tiger has over 100 victories worldwide
    Posted:
  • kcsfkcsf Santa Fe, NM 1214WRX Points: 297Handicap: 5Members Posts: 1,214 Platinum Tees
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    Snead had/has nothing to do with how, or that they were, credited to him. The error shown in the article is one by the PGA and whether or not they should be credited as legitimate tournaments. It's too late to change the number for Snead, but we all know his legitimate number is far less than 82.



    No disrespect to Snead as he was and will always be seen as a tremendous golfer.
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  • Birdie MacBirdie Mac  662WRX Points: 329Members Posts: 662 Golden Tee
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    Thought it was only a matter of time before this article, and subsequent thread surfaced. Hopefully in the near future, this will all be academic should Tiger continue to play well.
    Posted:
  • NevinWNevinW Southside, West Virginia 1179WRX Points: 182Handicap: 4ClubWRX Posts: 1,179 ClubWRX
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    Professional golf was a completely different universe in the 1930's and 1940's. Defining what is an official win and what isn't has to be pretty much impossible compared to the era starting after WWII. I agree that Tiger already has this one but Tiger is going to wait for #83.
    Posted:
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  • rangersgoalierangersgoalie  1926WRX Points: 397Members Posts: 1,926 Platinum Tees
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    The details all in one spot.



    [url="https://www.golfdigest.com/story/forget-sam-snead-tiger-woods-already-has-the-tour-record-for-wins-seriously"]https://www.golfdigest.com/story/forget-sam-snead-tiger-woods-already-has-the-tour-record-for-wins-seriously[/url]





    I'm sure out of respect for Sam that Tiger won't think he has the real record until he wins #83, but the truth, as usual, is a little more complicated.













    ....and no one tell Richard I started this thread image/fie.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fie:' />




    Boy, are you in trouble! Nobody let Richard read this,!
    Posted:
  • kongokongo Gorilla Golfer  115WRX Points: 72Handicap: 11.5Members Posts: 115 Fairways
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    NevinW wrote:


    Professional golf was a completely different universe in the 1930's and 1940's. Defining what is an official win and what isn't has to be pretty much impossible compared to the era starting after WWII. I agree that Tiger already has this one but Tiger is going to wait for #83.




    Agreed. Tiger will get 83 at some point, and it'll be a record without controversy to muddy it.
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  • ShilgyShilgy Phoenix 12224WRX Points: 1,359Handicap: 3.2Members Posts: 12,224 Titanium Tees
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    That article does not even include the team events Snead is credited for...Jack and Arnie and others of earlier eras as well. Then during Tigers era the team events did not count-and now they do again. Team events should not count as an official win in my book.
    Posted:
    WITB
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    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • Forged4everForged4ever To See A Man’s True Character, Spend 4+ Hours With Him on a Golf Course⛳️ The Burgh/Hdcp: My gene pool 15900WRX Points: 1,130ClubWRX Posts: 15,900 ClubWRX
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    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the “no go” heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It’s irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer😊



    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golf.com/tour-and-news/tiger-woods-actually-ahead-sam-snead-pga-tour-wins/amp/



    Plus, at the end of the day, there is one number that counts...



    18



    Stay well my Friends🍻

    RP
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  • ShilgyShilgy Phoenix 12224WRX Points: 1,359Handicap: 3.2Members Posts: 12,224 Titanium Tees
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    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the "no go" heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It's irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer&#55357;&#56842;



    https://www.google.c...-tour-wins/amp/



    Stay well my Friends&#55356;&#57211;

    RP
    The funny thing is team events do count again now with the Zurich event. But I agree with your article from 2013 that they should not count.



    SUBTRACT 5 for team victories. Titles won with partners don’t count in modern golf. Snead won five of them, including the 1939 Miami-Biltmore Four-Ball and 1940 Inverness Invitational Four-Ball, both with Ralph Guldahl. Counting a pro-am event as a win is the equivalent of recognizing the team portion of the AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am as a Tour victory.
    Posted:
    WITB
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    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
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  • rangersgoalierangersgoalie  1926WRX Points: 397Members Posts: 1,926 Platinum Tees
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    Shilgy wrote:



    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the "no go" heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It's irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer&#55357;&#56842;



    [url=&quot;https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golf.com/tour-and-news/tiger-woods-actually-ahead-sam-snead-pga-tour-wins/amp/&quot;]https://www.google.c...-tour-wins/amp/[/url]



    Stay well my Friends&#55356;&#57211;

    RP
    The funny thing is team events do count again now with the Zurich event. But I agree with your article from 2013 that they should not count.



    SUBTRACT 5 for team victories. Titles won with partners don’t count in modern golf. Snead won five of them, including the 1939 Miami-Biltmore Four-Ball and 1940 Inverness Invitational Four-Ball, both with Ralph Guldahl. Counting a pro-am event as a win is the equivalent of recognizing the team portion of the AT&amp;T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am as a Tour victory.




    ****, I finished 2 or 3 at Pebble one year! So close!
    Posted:
  • duffer987duffer987 Meh... eh Canadian in California 9673WRX Points: 957Handicap: ~8Members Posts: 9,673 Titanium Tees
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    Ya I don't think anyone was ever seriously counting events such as the 18 and 16 player two-man team events. Just that knocks him back into the 70s.

    Good example of one of the many follies of comparing across eras.
    Posted:
  • c7015c7015  2264WRX Points: 262Members Posts: 2,264 Platinum Tees
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    farmer wrote:


    Snead played the tournaments that were there to play. 80 years later some of them look ridiculous, but he was trying to make a living.




    I'm not sure too many are suggesting otherwise, fundimentally its really just why it's somewhat impossible to compare different generational accomplishments. Evoloution of the game, nice to know fans never change and we will continue to debate the subject (Tiger vs Jack vs Lebron thread)



    The silver lining is that we usually only do it when a once in a generational player is setting a new bar.
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  • redfirebird08redfirebird08  8104WRX Points: 754Members Posts: 8,104 Titanium Tees
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    Shilgy wrote:



    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the "no go" heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It's irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer��



    https://www.google.c...-tour-wins/amp/



    Stay well my Friends��

    RP
    The funny thing is team events do count again now with the Zurich event. But I agree with your article from 2013 that they should not count.



    SUBTRACT 5 for team victories. Titles won with partners don’t count in modern golf. Snead won five of them, including the 1939 Miami-Biltmore Four-Ball and 1940 Inverness Invitational Four-Ball, both with Ralph Guldahl. Counting a pro-am event as a win is the equivalent of recognizing the team portion of the AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am as a Tour victory.




    Zurich team event has a lot more players though doesn't it? Not 20 players on 10 teams (or less). PGA Tour website says 160 players and 80 teams. That is a different ball of wax than these team wins in tiny fields from the 1930's to 1970's.



    https://www.pgatour.com/news/2017/04/17/zurich-classic-team-format-how-it-works.html
    Posted:
  • c7015c7015  2264WRX Points: 262Members Posts: 2,264 Platinum Tees
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    Might be harder to win a team event lol



    gotta rely on the other guy ...and if you are Sam Snead your teammate is probably not as good as you...
    Posted:
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  • redfirebird08redfirebird08  8104WRX Points: 754Members Posts: 8,104 Titanium Tees
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    c7015 wrote:


    Might be harder to win a team event lol



    gotta rely on the other guy ...and if you are Sam Snead your teammate is probably not as good as you...




    That's true, haha
    Posted:
  • tideridertiderider  2818WRX Points: 1,855Handicap: 5ishMembers Posts: 2,818 Titanium Tees
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    may have been answered elsewhere, but does next year's tour 'ship count as a tournament win since they have different starting positions?
    Posted:
  • ShilgyShilgy Phoenix 12224WRX Points: 1,359Handicap: 3.2Members Posts: 12,224 Titanium Tees
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    Shilgy wrote:



    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the "no go" heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It's irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer��



    https://www.google.c...-tour-wins/amp/



    Stay well my Friends��

    RP
    The funny thing is team events do count again now with the Zurich event. But I agree with your article from 2013 that they should not count.



    SUBTRACT 5 for team victories. Titles won with partners don’t count in modern golf. Snead won five of them, including the 1939 Miami-Biltmore Four-Ball and 1940 Inverness Invitational Four-Ball, both with Ralph Guldahl. Counting a pro-am event as a win is the equivalent of recognizing the team portion of the AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am as a Tour victory.




    Zurich team event has a lot more players though doesn't it? Not 20 players on 10 teams (or less). PGA Tour website says 160 players and 80 teams. That is a different ball of wax than these team wins in tiny fields from the 1930's to 1970's.



    https://www.pgatour....w-it-works.html
    Sure-how about the 200 World Cup for example? Do you see that on either Duval's or Tiger's resume? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_WGC-World_Cup



    The Miami Int'l four ball is an official win for Hogan and Snead and others. Most of the time it was 16 two man teams, early it was just 8 teams. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_International_Four-Ball



    Jack and Arnie won the National four ball a couple times and are credited with wins. I do not recall how many teams there were and cannot find much online about it though.



    I just always found it interesting those were official wins but the World Cup was not.
    Posted:
    WITB
    Tools for the job!

    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL  6734WRX Points: 1,736Members Posts: 6,734 Titanium Tees
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    I knew wed find Shil in here beating the same drum... image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
    Posted:
  • rangersgoalierangersgoalie  1926WRX Points: 397Members Posts: 1,926 Platinum Tees
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    Do the original World Series count on any victories? Didn’t think they did until they slightly expanded the field to about 20 in the early 80’s?



    How team events count, but Hogan’s Hale America doesn’t is interesting too
    Posted:
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  • ShilgyShilgy Phoenix 12224WRX Points: 1,359Handicap: 3.2Members Posts: 12,224 Titanium Tees
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    lowheel wrote:


    I knew wed find Shil in here beating the same drum... image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
    Not talking depth or anything. Why? You want to again? If so I'm out unless either of us come up with something new. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    As the article supplied by Richard explained the 80's task force that determined early days tour wins did a half assed job. If they tried to call the Hero Challenge an official tour win I'd find that ridiculous as well. Many of the so called official wins of the past had slimmer fields though.
    Posted:
    WITB
    Tools for the job!

    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • grm24grm24 Western PA 4152WRX Points: 1,288Members Posts: 4,152 Titanium Tees
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    Do the original World Series count on any victories? Didn’t think they did until they slightly expanded the field to about 20 in the early 80’s?
    They do not. There were considered an unofficial tour event through 1975. Starting in 1976 when the field was expanded it became an official PGA Tour event.
    Posted:
  • larrybudlarrybud Rochester Hills, MI 11577WRX Points: 468Handicap: 3.4Members Posts: 11,577 Titanium Tees
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    Works both ways. Tigers win this past week had 29 other players in it.
    Posted:
  • Railroading13Railroading13 Nebraska 693WRX Points: 159Handicap: 2Members Posts: 693 Golden Tee
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    Yeah the other 29 being the top earners/performers of the season lol
    Posted:
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  • redfirebird08redfirebird08  8104WRX Points: 754Members Posts: 8,104 Titanium Tees
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    larrybud wrote:


    Works both ways. Tigers win this past week had 29 other players in it.




    Then take away all of those limited field wins from both. Woods is ahead.
    Posted:
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  • tideridertiderider  2818WRX Points: 1,855Handicap: 5ishMembers Posts: 2,818 Titanium Tees
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    larrybud wrote:


    Works both ways. Tigers win this past week had 29 other players in it.




    horrible rebuttal ... those 29 are the best players this year on the tour ...
    Posted:
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Iowa 20413WRX Points: 4,333ClubWRX Posts: 20,413 ClubWRX
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    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the "no go" heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It's irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer��



    https://www.google.c...-tour-wins/amp/



    Plus, at the end of the day, there is one number that counts...



    18



    Stay well my Friends��

    RP




    LOL, but they all try to work around that 18 with this argument or that argument - it's still 18 folks!



    And who really cares if Tiger "has" the record? Snead's count is Snead's count, so pass it or don't pass it, but it's funny they couldn't wait hardly 12 hours to get into why Tiger "has" it.



    Just be happy Tiger can play golf at a high level and enjoy it while it lasts and hope that he can continue without injury.



    Ryder Cup should be fun. Hope Watson is on hand to call Phil's matches!
    Posted:
  • redfirebird08redfirebird08  8104WRX Points: 754Members Posts: 8,104 Titanium Tees
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    tiderider wrote:

    larrybud wrote:


    Works both ways. Tigers win this past week had 29 other players in it.




    horrible rebuttal ... those 29 are the best players this year on the tour ...




    Beating 29 is a lot easier than beating 100+ in a regular event.
    Posted:
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  • BearQBearQ  3667WRX Points: 850Members Posts: 3,667 Titanium Tees
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    I think most seasoned golf fans have had Tiger having the most wins for a while, probably at the 70ish point. Only one meaningful record stands in his way, it’s 18.



    Although imo if he were to win even 4 more events and 1 major, he’s goat to those who still wanna say Jack. I don’t think reaching 18 is necessary
    Posted:



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