About Sam Snead's PGA Tour wins total...

Darth PutterDarth Putter Members Posts: 4,760 ✭✭
The details all in one spot.



https://www.golfdigest.com/story/forget-sam-snead-tiger-woods-already-has-the-tour-record-for-wins-seriously





I'm sure out of respect for Sam that Tiger won't think he has the real record until he wins #83, but the truth, as usual, is a little more complicated.













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Comments

  • c7015c7015 Members Posts: 2,108 ✭✭
    ya, he answered that question very carefully in his presser where he could have just said ... I got this already
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  • farmerfarmer Members Posts: 7,853 ✭✭
    Snead played the tournaments that were there to play. 80 years later some of them look ridiculous, but he was trying to make a living.
  • blblco02blblco02 Members Posts: 567 ✭✭
    Let’s not forget that tiger has over 100 victories worldwide
  • kcsfkcsf Members Posts: 1,055 ✭✭
    Snead had/has nothing to do with how, or that they were, credited to him. The error shown in the article is one by the PGA and whether or not they should be credited as legitimate tournaments. It's too late to change the number for Snead, but we all know his legitimate number is far less than 82.



    No disrespect to Snead as he was and will always be seen as a tremendous golfer.
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  • Birdie MacBirdie Mac Members Posts: 496 ✭✭
    Thought it was only a matter of time before this article, and subsequent thread surfaced. Hopefully in the near future, this will all be academic should Tiger continue to play well.
  • NevinWNevinW Las VegasClubWRX Posts: 1,113 ClubWRX
    Professional golf was a completely different universe in the 1930's and 1940's. Defining what is an official win and what isn't has to be pretty much impossible compared to the era starting after WWII. I agree that Tiger already has this one but Tiger is going to wait for #83.
  • rangersgoalierangersgoalie Members Posts: 1,769 ✭✭


    The details all in one spot.



    [url="https://www.golfdigest.com/story/forget-sam-snead-tiger-woods-already-has-the-tour-record-for-wins-seriously"]https://www.golfdigest.com/story/forget-sam-snead-tiger-woods-already-has-the-tour-record-for-wins-seriously[/url]





    I'm sure out of respect for Sam that Tiger won't think he has the real record until he wins #83, but the truth, as usual, is a little more complicated.













    ....and no one tell Richard I started this thread image/fie.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fie:' />




    Boy, are you in trouble! Nobody let Richard read this,!
  • kongokongo Gorilla Golfer Members Posts: 114 ✭✭
    NevinW wrote:


    Professional golf was a completely different universe in the 1930's and 1940's. Defining what is an official win and what isn't has to be pretty much impossible compared to the era starting after WWII. I agree that Tiger already has this one but Tiger is going to wait for #83.




    Agreed. Tiger will get 83 at some point, and it'll be a record without controversy to muddy it.
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  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,388 ✭✭
    That article does not even include the team events Snead is credited for...Jack and Arnie and others of earlier eras as well. Then during Tigers era the team events did not count-and now they do again. Team events should not count as an official win in my book.
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  • Forged4everForged4ever To See A Man’s True Character, Play Golf With Him The Burgh/Hdcp: My gene poolClubWRX Posts: 15,683 ClubWRX
    edited Sep 24, 2018 #11
    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the “no go” heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It’s irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer😊



    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golf.com/tour-and-news/tiger-woods-actually-ahead-sam-snead-pga-tour-wins/amp/



    Plus, at the end of the day, there is one number that counts...



    18



    Stay well my Friends🍻

    RP
    In the end, only three things matter~ <br /><br />How much that you loved...<br /><br />How mightily that you lived...<br /><br />How gracefully that you accepted both victory & defeat...<br /><br /><br /><br />GHIN: Beefeater 24
  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,388 ✭✭


    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the "no go" heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It's irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer&#55357;&#56842;



    https://www.google.c...-tour-wins/amp/



    Stay well my Friends&#55356;&#57211;

    RP
    The funny thing is team events do count again now with the Zurich event. But I agree with your article from 2013 that they should not count.



    SUBTRACT 5 for team victories. Titles won with partners don’t count in modern golf. Snead won five of them, including the 1939 Miami-Biltmore Four-Ball and 1940 Inverness Invitational Four-Ball, both with Ralph Guldahl. Counting a pro-am event as a win is the equivalent of recognizing the team portion of the AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am as a Tour victory.
    WITB
    Tools for the job!

    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • rangersgoalierangersgoalie Members Posts: 1,769 ✭✭
    Shilgy wrote:



    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the "no go" heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It's irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer&#55357;&#56842;



    [url=&quot;https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golf.com/tour-and-news/tiger-woods-actually-ahead-sam-snead-pga-tour-wins/amp/&quot;]https://www.google.c...-tour-wins/amp/[/url]



    Stay well my Friends&#55356;&#57211;

    RP
    The funny thing is team events do count again now with the Zurich event. But I agree with your article from 2013 that they should not count.



    SUBTRACT 5 for team victories. Titles won with partners don’t count in modern golf. Snead won five of them, including the 1939 Miami-Biltmore Four-Ball and 1940 Inverness Invitational Four-Ball, both with Ralph Guldahl. Counting a pro-am event as a win is the equivalent of recognizing the team portion of the AT&amp;T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am as a Tour victory.




    ****, I finished 2 or 3 at Pebble one year! So close!
  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,015 ✭✭
    Ya I don't think anyone was ever seriously counting events such as the 18 and 16 player two-man team events. Just that knocks him back into the 70s.

    Good example of one of the many follies of comparing across eras.
  • c7015c7015 Members Posts: 2,108 ✭✭
    farmer wrote:


    Snead played the tournaments that were there to play. 80 years later some of them look ridiculous, but he was trying to make a living.




    I'm not sure too many are suggesting otherwise, fundimentally its really just why it's somewhat impossible to compare different generational accomplishments. Evoloution of the game, nice to know fans never change and we will continue to debate the subject (Tiger vs Jack vs Lebron thread)



    The silver lining is that we usually only do it when a once in a generational player is setting a new bar.
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  • redfirebird08redfirebird08 Members Posts: 7,916 ✭✭
    Shilgy wrote:



    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the "no go" heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It's irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer��



    https://www.google.c...-tour-wins/amp/



    Stay well my Friends��

    RP
    The funny thing is team events do count again now with the Zurich event. But I agree with your article from 2013 that they should not count.



    SUBTRACT 5 for team victories. Titles won with partners don’t count in modern golf. Snead won five of them, including the 1939 Miami-Biltmore Four-Ball and 1940 Inverness Invitational Four-Ball, both with Ralph Guldahl. Counting a pro-am event as a win is the equivalent of recognizing the team portion of the AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am as a Tour victory.




    Zurich team event has a lot more players though doesn't it? Not 20 players on 10 teams (or less). PGA Tour website says 160 players and 80 teams. That is a different ball of wax than these team wins in tiny fields from the 1930's to 1970's.



    https://www.pgatour.com/news/2017/04/17/zurich-classic-team-format-how-it-works.html
  • c7015c7015 Members Posts: 2,108 ✭✭
    Might be harder to win a team event lol



    gotta rely on the other guy ...and if you are Sam Snead your teammate is probably not as good as you...
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  • redfirebird08redfirebird08 Members Posts: 7,916 ✭✭
    c7015 wrote:


    Might be harder to win a team event lol



    gotta rely on the other guy ...and if you are Sam Snead your teammate is probably not as good as you...




    That's true, haha
  • tideridertiderider Members Posts: 1,631 ✭✭
    may have been answered elsewhere, but does next year's tour 'ship count as a tournament win since they have different starting positions?
  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,388 ✭✭

    Shilgy wrote:



    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the "no go" heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It's irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer��



    https://www.google.c...-tour-wins/amp/



    Stay well my Friends��

    RP
    The funny thing is team events do count again now with the Zurich event. But I agree with your article from 2013 that they should not count.



    SUBTRACT 5 for team victories. Titles won with partners don’t count in modern golf. Snead won five of them, including the 1939 Miami-Biltmore Four-Ball and 1940 Inverness Invitational Four-Ball, both with Ralph Guldahl. Counting a pro-am event as a win is the equivalent of recognizing the team portion of the AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am as a Tour victory.




    Zurich team event has a lot more players though doesn't it? Not 20 players on 10 teams (or less). PGA Tour website says 160 players and 80 teams. That is a different ball of wax than these team wins in tiny fields from the 1930's to 1970's.



    https://www.pgatour....w-it-works.html
    Sure-how about the 200 World Cup for example? Do you see that on either Duval's or Tiger's resume? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_WGC-World_Cup



    The Miami Int'l four ball is an official win for Hogan and Snead and others. Most of the time it was 16 two man teams, early it was just 8 teams. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_International_Four-Ball



    Jack and Arnie won the National four ball a couple times and are credited with wins. I do not recall how many teams there were and cannot find much online about it though.



    I just always found it interesting those were official wins but the World Cup was not.
    WITB
    Tools for the job!

    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,141 ✭✭
    I knew wed find Shil in here beating the same drum... image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
  • rangersgoalierangersgoalie Members Posts: 1,769 ✭✭
    Do the original World Series count on any victories? Didn’t think they did until they slightly expanded the field to about 20 in the early 80’s?



    How team events count, but Hogan’s Hale America doesn’t is interesting too
  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,388 ✭✭
    lowheel wrote:


    I knew wed find Shil in here beating the same drum... image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
    Not talking depth or anything. Why? You want to again? If so I'm out unless either of us come up with something new. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    As the article supplied by Richard explained the 80's task force that determined early days tour wins did a half assed job. If they tried to call the Hero Challenge an official tour win I'd find that ridiculous as well. Many of the so called official wins of the past had slimmer fields though.
    WITB
    Tools for the job!

    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • grm24grm24 Western PAMembers Posts: 3,105 ✭✭


    Do the original World Series count on any victories? Didn’t think they did until they slightly expanded the field to about 20 in the early 80’s?
    They do not. There were considered an unofficial tour event through 1975. Starting in 1976 when the field was expanded it became an official PGA Tour event.
  • larrybudlarrybud Members Posts: 11,230 ✭✭
    Works both ways. Tigers win this past week had 29 other players in it.
  • Railroading13Railroading13 NebraskaMembers Posts: 619 ✭✭
    Yeah the other 29 being the top earners/performers of the season lol
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  • redfirebird08redfirebird08 Members Posts: 7,916 ✭✭
    larrybud wrote:


    Works both ways. Tigers win this past week had 29 other players in it.




    Then take away all of those limited field wins from both. Woods is ahead.
  • tideridertiderider Members Posts: 1,631 ✭✭
    larrybud wrote:


    Works both ways. Tigers win this past week had 29 other players in it.




    horrible rebuttal ... those 29 are the best players this year on the tour ...
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,699 ClubWRX
    edited Sep 24, 2018 #29


    All valid points and Gary and I had a discussion about the numbers in his article and no matter how I tried to scrape, claw and grab a tourney out of the "no go" heap, well, it was a no go, lolol.



    It's irrelevant to me as Sam will always be my All-Timer��



    https://www.google.c...-tour-wins/amp/



    Plus, at the end of the day, there is one number that counts...



    18



    Stay well my Friends��

    RP




    LOL, but they all try to work around that 18 with this argument or that argument - it's still 18 folks!



    And who really cares if Tiger "has" the record? Snead's count is Snead's count, so pass it or don't pass it, but it's funny they couldn't wait hardly 12 hours to get into why Tiger "has" it.



    Just be happy Tiger can play golf at a high level and enjoy it while it lasts and hope that he can continue without injury.



    Ryder Cup should be fun. Hope Watson is on hand to call Phil's matches!
  • redfirebird08redfirebird08 Members Posts: 7,916 ✭✭
    tiderider wrote:

    larrybud wrote:


    Works both ways. Tigers win this past week had 29 other players in it.




    horrible rebuttal ... those 29 are the best players this year on the tour ...




    Beating 29 is a lot easier than beating 100+ in a regular event.
  • BearQBearQ Break 2 Rebuild Members Posts: 3,387 ✭✭
    I think most seasoned golf fans have had Tiger having the most wins for a while, probably at the 70ish point. Only one meaningful record stands in his way, it’s 18.



    Although imo if he were to win even 4 more events and 1 major, he’s goat to those who still wanna say Jack. I don’t think reaching 18 is necessary
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