I’m giving up Blades... sort of...

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  • NoFancyUsername.NoFancyUsername. Members Posts: 465 ✭✭
    mmack067 wrote:




    I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.



    My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..



    I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.



    The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.



    Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?




    A tour player with CB's shoots a 64 first round. Then 2nd round he fires a 75...... why?




    Regressing to the mean?



    Are you actually you're suggesting that their ball striking changes overnight because they play CBs? Or are you just being sarcastic?




    I was making a point, that as the OP posted he was giving up blades because he believes CB's will aid his game, then if a pro playing the tour can have a 10 or so stroke turn around with CB's, what makes the OP think that CB's will fix his problem with scoring, and at that better scores. It's a fairytale.
  • I don't pretend to think switching to CB's are a silver bullet to improving my game. I started this thread merely saying it's going to be an experiment and I'll see what it does. As many have stated, it might do nothing at all. But we are all trying to improve our games in different ways, aren't we?



    With that, I agree with an above poster that it is more likely going to help me in the mid-to-long irons than the short irons. With that being the case, noticing a change in scoring might be even more difficult.



    There is also some work to be done with my putting, and some new methods I want to try this year. My short game has always been strong, as has my driving/long game. So I'll have to keep track of data and see exactly what area of my game is improving or still needs work.



    The "toe miss" in my iron game is only one area that I notice can hurt my scores. Whether it's literally causing bogey's or just simply yielding not as make-able birdie chances, it is something that sometimes gets in the way. So for 2019 I've just decided to make one significant change that I haven't committed to in the past and see if it does anything.



    If it changes nothing, then fine, no worries! If it helps even 1 stroke a round, then that is an improvement. Then we move on to the next part of my game to see if we can make incremental improvements as well. Going from a 20-handicap to a 5-handicap is about saving numerous strokes per round. Going from a +3 to a +5 is all about tiny, minuscule, almost unnoticeable incremental changes that add up over a longer period of time. Especially when you consider handicaps are also derived from course slopes and difficulties, lowering the handicap in this range is even more marginal.



    Again, I don't pretend I'm going to go out and start shooting 65's left and right, lol. I'm just hoping that I can get away with my toe-miss a little bit more, and maybe turn a few off those less-than-desirable opportunities into slightly better chances for scoring. That's really all.



    However, I do like where this thread is going and really like a lot of the advice given so far. One of which I think is smart is finding a way to track my game's data with more scrutiny. Maybe 2019 will be the year of that as well, and going into 2020 I'll have significant data showing where I can deliberately improve my game.
    “Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
    time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
    - Arnold Palmer
  • BottleCap wrote:


    I'd like to see a video of his swing




    My swing? If someone can tell me how to upload videos like that I can certainly do so once the snow melts or when I'm back in a lesson studio.
    “Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
    time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
    - Arnold Palmer
  • cliffhangercliffhanger ClubWRX Posts: 1,736 ClubWRX
    i am going to CB's this year and i know that my scoring will not improve unless i spend the time it takes to make it improve. If i get lazy and don't practice often enough, i know that no CB of any design will do much to help cover that up... after that i will most likely go back to blades next year.


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  • andrieddleandrieddle Posts: 1,798 ✭✭
    785 just picked up another win, none for Z forged just yet.



    Looks like you're in for a treat OP
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  • JAMH03JAMH03 Members Posts: 273 ✭✭


    I don't pretend to think switching to CB's are a silver bullet to improving my game. I started this thread merely saying it's going to be an experiment and I'll see what it does. As many have stated, it might do nothing at all. But we are all trying to improve our games in different ways, aren't we?



    With that, I agree with an above poster that it is more likely going to help me in the mid-to-long irons than the short irons. With that being the case, noticing a change in scoring might be even more difficult.



    There is also some work to be done with my putting, and some new methods I want to try this year. My short game has always been strong, as has my driving/long game. So I'll have to keep track of data and see exactly what area of my game is improving or still needs work.



    The "toe miss" in my iron game is only one area that I notice can hurt my scores. Whether it's literally causing bogey's or just simply yielding not as make-able birdie chances, it is something that sometimes gets in the way. So for 2019 I've just decided to make one significant change that I haven't committed to in the past and see if it does anything.



    If it changes nothing, then fine, no worries! If it helps even 1 stroke a round, then that is an improvement. Then we move on to the next part of my game to see if we can make incremental improvements as well. Going from a 20-handicap to a 5-handicap is about saving numerous strokes per round. Going from a +3 to a +5 is all about tiny, minuscule, almost unnoticeable incremental changes that add up over a longer period of time. Especially when you consider handicaps are also derived from course slopes and difficulties, lowering the handicap in this range is even more marginal.



    Again, I don't pretend I'm going to go out and start shooting 65's left and right, lol. I'm just hoping that I can get away with my toe-miss a little bit more, and maybe turn a few off those less-than-desirable opportunities into slightly better chances for scoring. That's really all.



    However, I do like where this thread is going and really like a lot of the advice given so far. One of which I think is smart is finding a way to track my game's data with more scrutiny. Maybe 2019 will be the year of that as well, and going into 2020 I'll have significant data showing where I can deliberately improve my game.




    I really like how you're "Manning up" here and owning your part in this and especially factors you maybe hadn't put as much time into. Well played that approach is going to help.



    Now I'm wondering if there is a way to measure your stats that would be easiest or most advantageous?



    With just a pencil and a regular scorecard I'm able to keep



    Fairways,

    GIR

    Up and down opportunities

    Up and down conversions

    Penalty strokes

    Total putts

    2 chips (greens missed inside of 100 yards)



    Up and down opps for me were originally whenever inside of 100 yards then changed to whenever inside of 75 yards but realistically BOTH were unrealistic to helping me. 20-30 yards probably a lot more realistic for my ability and or interest in practice



    This echos the discussions above with comparisons between us and PGA players



    When my standard was within a 100 yards my hope was to capture my ops to score on short par 4's or par 5's when I got close to the green in under regulation. I
    t was really hard to change/improve my %'s it didn't really drive improvement on my part because the standard was too high for me.



    I have 2 imagine their have been some great threads on GolfWRX already and we can find them.



    Personally I'd lean towards something based on strokes gained as my guess is that will be the least cumbersome and most directly correlated to actual scoring.

    Comparisons are odious.

  • BottleCapBottleCap Members Posts: 1,266 ✭✭

    BottleCap wrote:


    I'd like to see a video of his swing




    My swing? If someone can tell me how to upload videos like that I can certainly do so once the snow melts or when I'm back in a lesson studio.




    Just take a down the line video and then upload it to YouTube and then post the link to the video
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  • balls_deepballs_deep Members Posts: 468 ✭✭
    JAMH03 wrote:



    I don't pretend to think switching to CB's are a silver bullet to improving my game. I started this thread merely saying it's going to be an experiment and I'll see what it does. As many have stated, it might do nothing at all. But we are all trying to improve our games in different ways, aren't we?



    With that, I agree with an above poster that it is more likely going to help me in the mid-to-long irons than the short irons. With that being the case, noticing a change in scoring might be even more difficult.



    There is also some work to be done with my putting, and some new methods I want to try this year. My short game has always been strong, as has my driving/long game. So I'll have to keep track of data and see exactly what area of my game is improving or still needs work.



    The "toe miss" in my iron game is only one area that I notice can hurt my scores. Whether it's literally causing bogey's or just simply yielding not as make-able birdie chances, it is something that sometimes gets in the way. So for 2019 I've just decided to make one significant change that I haven't committed to in the past and see if it does anything.



    If it changes nothing, then fine, no worries! If it helps even 1 stroke a round, then that is an improvement. Then we move on to the next part of my game to see if we can make incremental improvements as well. Going from a 20-handicap to a 5-handicap is about saving numerous strokes per round. Going from a +3 to a +5 is all about tiny, minuscule, almost unnoticeable incremental changes that add up over a longer period of time. Especially when you consider handicaps are also derived from course slopes and difficulties, lowering the handicap in this range is even more marginal.



    Again, I don't pretend I'm going to go out and start shooting 65's left and right, lol. I'm just hoping that I can get away with my toe-miss a little bit more, and maybe turn a few off those less-than-desirable opportunities into slightly better chances for scoring. That's really all.



    However, I do like where this thread is going and really like a lot of the advice given so far. One of which I think is smart is finding a way to track my game's data with more scrutiny. Maybe 2019 will be the year of that as well, and going into 2020 I'll have significant data showing where I can deliberately improve my game.




    I really like how you're "Manning up" here and owning your part in this and especially factors you maybe hadn't put as much time into. Well played that approach is going to help.



    Now I'm wondering if there is a way to measure your stats that would be easiest or most advantageous?



    With just a pencil and a regular scorecard I'm able to keep



    Fairways,

    GIR

    Up and down opportunities

    Up and down conversions

    Penalty strokes

    Total putts

    2 chips (greens missed inside of 100 yards)



    Up and down opps for me were originally whenever inside of 100 yards then changed to whenever inside of 75 yards but realistically BOTH were unrealistic to helping me. 20-30 yards probably a lot more realistic for my ability and or interest in practice



    This echos the discussions above with comparisons between us and PGA players



    When my standard was within a 100 yards my hope was to capture my ops to score on short par 4's or par 5's when I got close to the green in under regulation. I
    t was really hard to change/improve my %'s it didn't really drive improvement on my part because the standard was too high for me.



    I have 2 imagine their have been some great threads on GolfWRX already and we can find them.



    Personally I'd lean towards something based on strokes gained as my guess is that will be the least cumbersome and most directly correlated to actual scoring.




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  • MelloYelloMelloYello Members Posts: 3,043 ✭✭
    I am still trying to settle on the perfect set myself.



    Through a bit of a mix-up in shipping last year I wound up with a brand new set of MBs (3-P). I ordered a used set of 7 clubs and received a brand new box with all 8 clubs still in the plastic. That was pretty cool and since they were new I figured I’d stick with them. I took it as a sign from the Gods, haha.



    While the weather was good and the grass was green I really enjoyed them. I posted here about how much I thought going back to blades was working out for the better. I never really had to hit the 3i and 4i except off the tee to find the occasional fairway so they ended up being surprisingly adequate. And when it came to approaches with the 6-P I tended to hit the center of the face more often than not. My issue was that at times I’d turn the ball over too much with my hands. So while some shots were as good as I could hope with any iron, others were a frustrating hook that felt solid but ended up a few yards left of the green.



    I’ve always figured that type of miss would only be worsened as a club's offset increased.



    Nonetheless, I bought a used set of AP2 irons this winter as an experiment to help combat the soggy, nasty lies of Dec-Feb when the grass is dormant and the course never really dries out.



    I immediately noticed the AP2 set seem as though it were designed to be hit differently. While the MB irons worked well with a shallow sweeping action, the AP2 irons seemed to demand a more deliberate, downward blow. In addition to that, I also disliked seeing the increased offset in the long clubs where I knew lateral misses could quickly become costly. My miss already being a slight hook, I felt that same result was almost inevitable at times with the AP2 if I didn’t try and play for what almost felt like a fade. And as others have pointed out, actually producing a fade on command (at least on the first try) can be somewhat challenging.



    I did notice that the AP2 irons had a larger sweet spot. You could definitely get away with a shot slightly out on the toe. I can see that being a very useful characteristic for someone who’s buying their first real “player’s” iron. I can also see why some argue that these are still a sort of GI club. I see them as a GI club that's been shrunk down as opposed to the CB which is certainly a player's iron from the ground up.



    Nevertheless, being someone who’s typically gone with MB and CB type designs, I found the AP2 just too funky to be “worth” it for me. Having to release the club differently, having to tolerate the look of unnecessary offset and simply not being able to produce a fade when I needed to were enough for me to pass on whatever forgiveness was actually present.



    I think the lesson is that you can't really have your cake and eat it to. If you want forgiveness, you're going to have to start sacrificing certain elements that often promote control and responsiveness.



    So, in the meantime I’ve experimented with some T-MB long irons as well as an older set of Nike VR Split Cavities I’ve had in the closet forever which represent the CB type. I have a lot more confidence in the VR Splits compared with the AP2 so I’m thinking that I may ultimately get rid of everything and dive into a set of CBs and just call it a day.



    The MBs aren’t doing me any favors. I think they're beyond my level as I'm still at the point where I'm just hoping to hit them well. The CB would be just as good for me and probably a smidge better.



    The AP2 just wasn’t my thing and unfortunately the VR Splits have a set of 5.5. Flighted shafts so they’re pretty whippy and not where I want to be long-term. A set of CBs with the AMT S300 is probably exactly where I ought to be.
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5)
    Hybrid: Tour Edge Exotics E8 (19)
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (3-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52 (F) / 56 (F) / 60 (S)
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  • balls_deepballs_deep Members Posts: 468 ✭✭
    MelloYello wrote:


    I am still trying to settle on the perfect set myself.



    Through a bit of a mix-up in shipping last year I wound up with a brand new set of MBs (3-P). I ordered a used set of 7 clubs and received a brand new box with all 8 clubs still in the plastic. That was pretty cool and since they were new I figured I’d stick with them. I took it as a sign from the Gods, haha.



    While the weather was good and the grass was green I really enjoyed them. I posted here about how much I thought going back to blades was working out for the better. I never really had to hit the 3i and 4i except off the tee to find the occasional fairway so they ended up being surprisingly adequate. And when it came to approaches with the 6-P I tended to hit the center of the face more often than not. My issue was that at times I’d turn the ball over too much with my hands. So while some shots were as good as I could hope with any iron, others were a frustrating hook that felt solid but ended up a few yards left of the green.



    I’ve always figured that type of miss would only be worsened as a club's offset increased.



    Nonetheless, I bought a used set of AP2 irons this winter as an experiment to help combat the soggy, nasty lies of Dec-Feb when the grass is dormant and the course never really dries out.



    I immediately noticed the AP2 set seem as though it were designed to be hit differently. While the MB irons worked well with a shallow sweeping action, the AP2 irons seemed to demand a more deliberate, downward blow. In addition to that, I also disliked seeing the increased offset in the long clubs where I knew lateral misses could quickly become costly. My miss already being a slight hook, I felt that same result was almost inevitable at times with the AP2 if I didn’t try and play for what almost felt like a fade. And as others have pointed out, actually producing a fade on command (at least on the first try) can be somewhat challenging.



    I did notice that the AP2 irons had a larger sweet spot. You could definitely get away with a shot slightly out on the toe. I can see that being a very useful characteristic for someone who’s buying their first real “player’s” iron. I can also see why some argue that these are still a sort of GI club. I see them as a GI club that's been shrunk down as opposed to the CB which is certainly a player's iron from the ground up.



    Nevertheless, being someone who’s typically gone with MB and CB type designs, I found the AP2 just too funky to be “worth” it for me. Having to release the club differently, having to tolerate the look of unnecessary offset and simply not being able to produce a fade when I needed to were enough for me to pass on whatever forgiveness was actually present.



    I think the lesson is that you can't really have your cake and eat it to. If you want forgiveness, you're going to have to start sacrificing certain elements that often promote control and responsiveness.



    So, in the meantime I’ve experimented with some T-MB long irons as well as an older set of Nike VR Split Cavities I’ve had in the closet forever which represent the CB type. I have a lot more confidence in the VR Splits compared with the AP2 so I’m thinking that I may ultimately get rid of everything and dive into a set of CBs and just call it a day.



    The MBs aren’t doing me any favors. I think they're beyond my level as I'm still at the point where I'm just hoping to hit them well. The CB would be just as good for me and probably a smidge better.



    The AP2 just wasn’t my thing and unfortunately the VR Splits have a set of 5.5. Flighted shafts so they’re pretty whippy and not where I want to be long-term. A set of CBs with the AMT S300 is probably exactly where I ought to be.






    Some are very sensitive to certain qualities in a club. Offset I definitely understand can reduce confidence - I can't even look at a Ping G for instance. I went back and forth for a while about whether or not to go for AP2 or CB. The CB is absolutely buttery off the face. If you look at the offset numbers though, the AP2 and CB are almost identical. In fact, if you bent the AP2 one degree weak I believe the offset would be the exact same. The 718 AP2 version certainly has less visual offset than previous models even though the numbers are the same. I find the AP2 to be much more forgiving on toe strikes than bladed options. My heart really wants to play the MB but I know I don't have the game for them. The feel is incredible but the performance drop off just isn't worth it for me. If I mishit the AP2, I know I'm up by the green not well short. As you mentioned, the additional side spin you can put on the ball with the blades is also an issue. My decision to go away from blades (for the moment) came recently in Florida. I hit a 4 iron at the green, put what I thought was a very decent move on the ball but my hands must have moved a touch too much and I pulled it just enough to take a nasty kick OB. I'm not one to blame clubs but I know if I was playing my AP2 that shot would have stayed in. IMO the AP2, 785, Apex Pro etc are just workable enough yet stable enough to keep you out of trouble. If I was just walking the course playing solo all the time I would for sure play blades. Playing for money though I'm in a players cavity every day of the week.
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  • bodhi555bodhi555 Posts: 714 ✭✭
    I must be a freak in that case - as my miss is also a tug left, but I find with CBs it actually gets worse than it does with my VR Pros. With my trusty blades worst case is I'll be in a greenside bunker, with the AP2s I used earlier in the month, I was playing flop shots over the greenside bunkers.



    If I was playing for money I'd want MBs, as that is what gives me the most confidence standing over. Your mileage may vary.
    The Blue Thunder: Nike Vapor Fly - 9.5 degree - Speeder Evolution 757X
    The Stenson: Nike Vapor Fly 3W - Mitsubishi JvlnFX 74 X-Flex
    The Walking Stick: Titleist 818 H2 19 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 85X
    The Blades: Nike VR Pro 4i - PW - DG S400 TI Shaft
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  • balls_deepballs_deep Members Posts: 468 ✭✭
    bodhi555 wrote:


    I must be a freak in that case - as my miss is also a tug left, but I find with CBs it actually gets worse than it does with my VR Pros. With my trusty blades worst case is I'll be in a greenside bunker, with the AP2s I used earlier in the month, I was playing flop shots over the greenside bunkers.



    If I was playing for money I'd want MBs, as that is what gives me the most confidence standing over. Your mileage may vary.




    I.e you feel like the AP2 were shorter or that you were putting more curve on the ball? Obviously if the offset scares you and you subconsciously swing away from the miss (i.e bath goes in to out) you're going to put huge draw spin on so that makes sense. Same reason why many golfs are scared of slicing into the water on the right with their driver so their swing "aims" left and ends up putting massive slice straight into the drink!
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  • bodhi555bodhi555 Posts: 714 ✭✭
    balls_deep wrote:

    bodhi555 wrote:


    I must be a freak in that case - as my miss is also a tug left, but I find with CBs it actually gets worse than it does with my VR Pros. With my trusty blades worst case is I'll be in a greenside bunker, with the AP2s I used earlier in the month, I was playing flop shots over the greenside bunkers.



    If I was playing for money I'd want MBs, as that is what gives me the most confidence standing over. Your mileage may vary.




    I.e you feel like the AP2 were shorter or that you were putting more curve on the ball? Obviously if the offset scares you and you subconsciously swing away from the miss (i.e bath goes in to out) you're going to put huge draw spin on so that makes sense. Same reason why many golfs are scared of slicing into the water on the right with their driver so their swing "aims" left and ends up putting massive slice straight into the drink!


    It wasn't that at all for me - I tend to try to manipulate the face on the way through (not great practice I know, but I learnt the game in the 80s and have the reverse C finish to prove it image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />) and the extra metal around the head always made me try harder to close it than with a "lean" MB.



    I'm working the manipulation out slowly, but if successful I'm still not dumping the blades, as overall I prefer the classic look and feel.



    This is why I do laugh when people get dogmatic about what iron style everyone should be using. We're all different, so play what you feel most comfortable with. For me as I've been about for a while it's a muscle back, others may prefer a Ping G.



    We should celebrate our differences in approach, not blindly try to convert everyone to our way of thinking image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    /puts peace pipe down.
    The Blue Thunder: Nike Vapor Fly - 9.5 degree - Speeder Evolution 757X
    The Stenson: Nike Vapor Fly 3W - Mitsubishi JvlnFX 74 X-Flex
    The Walking Stick: Titleist 818 H2 19 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 85X
    The Blades: Nike VR Pro 4i - PW - DG S400 TI Shaft
    The Rusties: Nike Engage 50, 54 Square Sole, 58 Toe Sweep
    The Putter: Nike "The Oven" Method 003
    Balls: Nike RZN Tour Black/Platinum, Bridgestone Tour B XS, Titleist AVX
    Bag: Sun Mountain Four Five

    Also in Rotation:

    Driving Iron: Nike Vapor Fly 2 iron - KBS C-Taper 120S
    Wedge: Nike Engage 58 Dual Sole
    Putters: Yonex Super A.D.X Tour Forged / Scotty Cameron Newport Oil Can / Scotty Cameron California Del Mar
  • balls_deepballs_deep Members Posts: 468 ✭✭
    edited Mar 2, 2019 8:08am #135
    bodhi555 wrote:

    balls_deep wrote:

    bodhi555 wrote:


    I must be a freak in that case - as my miss is also a tug left, but I find with CBs it actually gets worse than it does with my VR Pros. With my trusty blades worst case is I'll be in a greenside bunker, with the AP2s I used earlier in the month, I was playing flop shots over the greenside bunkers.



    If I was playing for money I'd want MBs, as that is what gives me the most confidence standing over. Your mileage may vary.




    I.e you feel like the AP2 were shorter or that you were putting more curve on the ball? Obviously if the offset scares you and you subconsciously swing away from the miss (i.e bath goes in to out) you're going to put huge draw spin on so that makes sense. Same reason why many golfs are scared of slicing into the water on the right with their driver so their swing "aims" left and ends up putting massive slice straight into the drink!


    It wasn't that at all for me - I tend to try to manipulate the face on the way through (not great practice I know, but I learnt the game in the 80s and have the reverse C finish to prove it image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />) and the extra metal around the head always made me try harder to close it than with a "lean" MB.



    I'm working the manipulation out slowly, but if successful I'm still not dumping the blades, as overall I prefer the classic look and feel.



    This is why I do laugh when people get dogmatic about what iron style everyone should be using. We're all different, so play what you feel most comfortable with. For me as I've been about for a while it's a muscle back, others may prefer a Ping G.



    We should celebrate our differences in approach, not blindly try to convert everyone to our way of thinking image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    /puts peace pipe down.




    I see what you're say for sure. I'm the opposite, quite new to the game. Started with SGI then quickly to players cavity. I genuinely don't think larger irons help me score better at all. Same deal - give me more face and I'll use it. My dad uses my old AP1 now and they have wear all over the face. As soon as I switched to small irons everything is out the middle (no, I don't have a perfect ball sized wear mark but it's all very centralized). I do not think that bigger irons are helpful - at least to me. I usually shoot low to mid 80s with the odd trip into either high 70s or high 80s/low 90s. For me, one stroke either way doesn't make a difference though whereas that one stroke is a big deal over a season for OP. Once I get to low single digits I'll probably care a bit more.
    Titleist 915D2 10.5 w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60S
    Titleist 917F2 16.5 w/ Aldila Rogue Black 70S
    Titleist 816H1 20* and 24* w/ Accra FX200H M4
    Titleist AP2 718 4-PW w/ DG AMT Tour White S300
    Vokey SM7 50F.8, 54S.10, 58D.12 S200
    Bettinardi Kuchar Model 1 Armlock 42"
    Pro V1x
  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 675 ✭✭
    balls_deep wrote:


    Same deal - give me more face and I'll use it. My dad uses my old AP1 now and they have wear all over the face. As soon as I switched to small irons everything is out the middle (no, I don't have a perfect ball sized wear mark but it's all very centralized). I do not think that bigger irons are helpful - at least to me. I usually shoot low to mid 80s with the odd trip into either high 70s or high 80s/low 90s.


    Does anyone know why this happens? I play Ping G series irons and don't plan on changing anytime soon. In principal, I would be open to a smaller blade, but the lack of offset in the smaller clubheads is one reason I don't want to change (my timing just seems to be off with something else after playing Gs for a while). Also, for me I just like the flight of the Ping's more (seem easier to get up in the air, more stable in the wind, etc), and net-net I don't think I'm losing strokes playing them.



    However, I have noticed the issue with drivers and fairway woods. Every now and then I will hit one with my 460cc head where I literally would have missed the ball with my 5 wood. Similarly, I've played with an old 983E every now and then, and the worst strikes (strike position only) are nowhere near as bad as with the 460cc. Of course, the results with the 983E or the 5 wood if you really miss the centre tend to be much worse because the clubhead is so much less forgiving than a 460cc.



    I am also around the same score levels as those listed above.
    Titleist 910 D2 11.25*, Diamana Ilima R-Flex (tipped 1')
    Callaway X Hot Pro 19* Fairway, Project X Velocity 6.0
    TaylorMade Raylor 22*, Raylor RE*AX S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
  • reider69reider69 Posts: 604 ✭✭
    GIR is the single most important stat to scoring in golf in my opinion. I have owned a set of MP-4s and have played many cavity backs. In my experience a ball strike off center is severely punished by a blade and I have a very high swing speed. My 900 forged can be hit very poorly and they never seem to fall short of the green. When a toe strike from 200 yards ends up on green and allows me to putt that is evidence of a cavity backs value. A toe strike with an MP-4 from 200 wouldn't sniff the green and I would be chipping. That difference in which type of club I chose to hit makes a difference in my score. Why were the Ping Eye 2s so transcendently popular and game changing? Because guys found that a perimeter weighted cavity back was much easier to hit and more forgiving than the blades they had played prior. The Ping Eye 2 helped golfers score better. People believe what they want to believe but I believe that most(99%) amateurs will score better with cavity backs as opposed to blades.
    Mizuno ST190 - Kuro Kage Silver Tini 70X
    Cobra BioCell+ - Matrix Ozik Red Tie 6Q3 X
    Cobra BioCell 3-4 Hybrid - Aldila Rogue Black 85 X
    Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 4-G, KBS C Taper Lite X
    Ping Glide Stealth 2.0 - 54 and 58 - Modus 105X
    Callaway Xforged - 64 degrees
    Lajosi DD201 Proto
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Members Posts: 3,043 ✭✭
    Well, just as an update I did in fact get ahold of some 716 CB irons. I found a very good used set (3-P) at a local retailer and went ahead with them.



    So right now I've got in my possession full sets of the 714 AP2, the 716 MB as well as the 716 CB. I can honestly say these CBs are perfect for me. They are every ounce what my MP-64 set was before I screwed those up with a shaft replacement. These CBs are even a little more forgiving in the longer irons and a little sleeker in the shorter irons (64 players will understand that!). I always said that the 64's were the ideal but these CBs are right there.



    I haven't lost an ounce of workability versus the MB but I'm significantly more confident from the fairway in the event I have to pull a long iron. I think blades will always afford the user the best possible control over trajectory--and I can fathom maybe wanting that in the shorter irons--but these CBs are no slouch and I prefer my entire set match. I've never felt great about combo sets. I want every club to feel exactly the same.



    So anyhow, that's my 2 cents. The AP2 wasn't sleek enough but the MB was too demanding in all but perfect circumstances. Don't get me wrong, from a flat lie in the middle of a plush fairway a blade is nice but on a real golf course--especially this time of year--the CB is the hands down winner for me.
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5)
    Hybrid: Tour Edge Exotics E8 (19)
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (3-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52 (F) / 56 (F) / 60 (S)
    Putter: Nike Method Milled 003
  • avguyavguy Replacement Player Sonoran Desert, AZMembers Posts: 1,053 ✭✭
    reider69 wrote:


    GIR is the single most important stat to scoring in golf in my opinion. I have owned a set of MP-4s and have played many cavity backs. In my experience a ball strike off center is severely punished by a blade and I have a very high swing speed. My 900 forged can be hit very poorly and they never seem to fall short of the green. When a toe strike from 200 yards ends up on green and allows me to putt that is evidence of a cavity backs value. A toe strike with an MP-4 from 200 wouldn't sniff the green and I would be chipping. That difference in which type of club I chose to hit makes a difference in my score. Why were the Ping Eye 2s so transcendently popular and game changing? Because guys found that a perimeter weighted cavity back was much easier to hit and more forgiving than the blades they had played prior. The Ping Eye 2 helped golfers score better. People believe what they want to believe but I believe that most(99%) amateurs will score better with cavity backs as opposed to blades.




    Great tell on playability in the cavity that I just am beginning to rediscover.....You are far better ball striker than me as I would never be playing 200 yds. shot with any iron - hybrid for me!



    But, having played five models of MBs (since 2008) that are all similar to your MP-4s, I just got some smaller GI cavities that I am adjusting slowly to - TM M5. Since the shaft wt. is considerably lower than all my full MBs of recent times, these feel very light, and my tempo is off.



    But, my proportionate shot comparison comes from the easiest par 3 I play often on a course I frequent. Front of green is usually 130 and you can have a pin as far back as 155 with water & sand right, sand left.



    Recently, at a 142 pin, I had M5s out, and figured due to stronger lofts, could play full 9 where my MBs I would grab a light 8. I hit it off the toe (felt weak), yet the trajectory was medium and it landed one pace on, with a touch of roll out draw up towards pin for 20 feet left. My MB set would be chipping as well from the right side with my draw not completed from any a toe shot.



    I hope for more of my crud shots ending up in a surprisingly better place this year with the M5s, and close to them, P790 later on.
    BAG ONE:                                                                                                                     BAG TWO:
    D-Titleist 917 D2  or 910 D2                                                                                           D-Srixon Z355 
    3-TM RBZ ts                                                                                                                   3-TM R11ti
    H-Titleist 915 H1 17, Titleist 816  H1 21, Bridgestone Precept ECU 25                        H-TM 2.0 SF 18 & 21, Cobra AC 25
    I - TM M5 5-PW Modus 105S                                                                                        I - TM P790 5-PW KBS CTLS
    W- Mizuno 52, Vokey SM6 58                                                                                       W- Mizuno 53, & 58
    P-Bellum Winmore Midi  787                                                                                         P-Guerin TS Black 370

  • craz-ecraz-e Members Posts: 4,026 ✭✭
    I’m giving up on owning as many sets of blades as I do if that counts? 💁🏻‍♂️
    Driver = Ping G410 Plus even flow black 6.0
    5 Wood = Taylormade Burner

    Irons = Miura 1957 Baby Blades Project X LZ 6.0 (4-PW)
    Wilson Staff FG59 DG S300's (4-PW)
    Titleist 718 MB Project X LZ 6.0 (4-PW)
    Wedges = Titleist Vokey SM6 52*, 56* and 60*

    = Taylormade 64* Hi-Toe
    Putter = Wilson Staff 8882
    Ball = Titleist AVX
  • tdk8180tdk8180 Members Posts: 2,404 ✭✭
    Blades of Steel
  • chivachiva Members Posts: 2,416 ✭✭
    If you seek forgiveness my son, go to confession.
    OB and water hazards you flunkies
  • chisagchisag Members Posts: 2,909 ✭✭
    ... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.
    Cobra F9 Tour Length ... Atmos Blue TS 65s
    Cobra F9 15.5* ... Atmos Blue TS 75s
    Cobra F6 Baffler ... Kuro Kage Black 75s
    TaylorMade UDi 18* 2 iron... HZRDUS Black 85hy
    4-pw TaylorMade P790 ... Recoil Prototype 95's
    SM6 52* F Grind /SM7 D Grind 58* ... Recoil 110s
    Bobby Grace 6330 ... 33.5"
  • Chilli9880Chilli9880 #adiZero Members Posts: 877 ✭✭
    For years I chased what I thought was the holy grail of irons where I sent through 5 different sets in 2 years. Finding myself more frustrated than satisfied, I started keeping stats of exactly what clubs I hit and the result. I found, like others have pointed out that my accuracy in the 4hybrid/iron through 6 iron range was quite awful. It didn't matter if I had an AP2 4 iron, a 4 hybrid Taylormade Rescue, a 4 TP UDI... I couldn't find anything that made those shots from those distances work. The lure of blades was always there and I can hit an 8 iron just as good as a wedge so that wasn't the issue there. I also looked around and saw a lot of mixed sets, whether on tour, at our local Web.com event or my club championship. It wasn't until I tested a 6 iron T-MB. It was then I knew that I finally found something that was the best of both worlds. As you can see, I've got a mixed set and just started with the 6 iron and worked my way up to the 4 iron. I feel I finally have a club that doesn't snap hook when you miss it a little bit off the tee. I think having a DG AMT in the irons helped too. I thought I was doomed to play hybrids forever because I knew I couldn't hit a 4 or 5 iron in a regular blade or CB set. I agree with another person about confidence but you can build that on the range as well on the course.



    Take all that and I'll say, this worked for me. I'm not sure if it will for you. Again, I went through 5 sets of irons trying to find that right set-up combo. I hope you find the set that works for you. Golf is so much more fun when you feel good about what you have in the bag AND can play those clubs to good consistent scores.
    '16 Taylormade M2 9*, Fujikura Atmos Black 6S
    '16 Taylormade M2 15*, Fujikura Atmos Black 7X
    '16 Taylormade M2 18*, Fujikura Atmos Black 8TX
    '16 Titleist T-MB 4, 5 & 6, MB 7-PW, TI DG AMT X100
    Titleist Vokey Forged 50, 56, 62, TI DG S400
    Titleist SC Select Squareback '14
    Titleist AVX, Titleist Cart Bag
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Members Posts: 3,043 ✭✭
    chisag wrote:


    ... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.




    That's golf. I've had the same exposure but I think it's just kind of evidence in support of the notion that even golf can be out-muscled to a certain degree.



    We've all had the chance to play with someone who had the strongest grip in the world and some wacky swing who could bomb it 350 just like you're describing. Those types never fail to produce the most ridiculous looking bombs off the tee. They bash their 5-iron 200+ and their stock shot is high and straight. I've met multiple people who fit in that category. I've never met a single one though who regularly broke 80.



    The thing that stops them is often the fact that the closer they get to the green, the more incompetent they seem to become. So sure that ham-handed grip can bash it a mile off the tee but they can't fathom what it takes to hit a simple 25-yd lob shot when it comes time to get up and down. Heck, I've seen those types confused by basic chip and pitch shots!



    So as a result they either hit 12 greens making the game look stupid easy and shoot a personal best of 78 or things go rough and they become the very definition of a hacker.
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5)
    Hybrid: Tour Edge Exotics E8 (19)
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (3-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52 (F) / 56 (F) / 60 (S)
    Putter: Nike Method Milled 003
  • chisagchisag Members Posts: 2,909 ✭✭
    MelloYello wrote:

    chisag wrote:


    ... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.




    That's golf. I've had the same exposure but I think it's just kind of evidence in support of the notion that even golf can be out-muscled to a certain degree.



    We've all had the chance to play with someone who had the strongest grip in the world and some wacky swing who could bomb it 350 just like you're describing. Those types never fail to produce the most ridiculous looking bombs off the tee. They bash their 5-iron 200+ and their stock shot is high and straight. I've met multiple people who fit in that category. I've never met a single one though who regularly broke 80.



    The thing that stops them is often the fact that the closer they get to the green, the more incompetent they seem to become. So sure that ham-handed grip can bash it a mile off the tee but they can't fathom what it takes to hit a simple 25-yd lob shot when it comes time to get up and down. Heck, I've seen those types confused by basic chip and pitch shots!



    So as a result they either hit 12 greens making the game look stupid easy and shoot a personal best of 78 or things go rough and they become the very definition of a hacker.






    ... I hear ya, but my story was more about iron choices so I didn't go into detail but this kid had a very sound swing and good all around game. Reminded me a little of Rory with some of the fastest hips I have ever witnessed. How anyone can move their hips so fast and keep up with the rest of their body is truly impressive. He said it was natural for him as a DI hitter. And by suspect short game, I really meant in comparison to his full game. He played like a +5 from tee to green and more like a 5 around the green, as he was certainly competent. He shot a 75 fwiw and was only 25 and didn't start playing serous golf til after college so I have a feeling his short game will keep getting better.
    Cobra F9 Tour Length ... Atmos Blue TS 65s
    Cobra F9 15.5* ... Atmos Blue TS 75s
    Cobra F6 Baffler ... Kuro Kage Black 75s
    TaylorMade UDi 18* 2 iron... HZRDUS Black 85hy
    4-pw TaylorMade P790 ... Recoil Prototype 95's
    SM6 52* F Grind /SM7 D Grind 58* ... Recoil 110s
    Bobby Grace 6330 ... 33.5"
  • dmeeksDCdmeeksDC ClubWRX Posts: 2,178 ClubWRX
    edited Mar 4, 2019 3:40pm #147
    You won’t miss blades and if you do, throw a few short irons in there. No biggie. It’s your setup.



    You don’t need a radically different look to get more help on mishits. The Srixon z965 looks like a MB, plays like a CB. I find it easier to play than AP2, MP18SC and Titleist CB’s. It has the weighting to boost MOI and feels great. Has tungsten in the toe, which the new Srixon MB does not. It is the easiest to hit MB that I have come across.



    The 785 is the most compact iron in that series. A bit too much so for me. Many love the 745 the most, I liked the 765 the most.



    I also would say hit the iBlade. Not actually a blade at all, more the Ping version of a blade — cavity, elastomer, thin face, tungsten weight in toe. Quite forgiving. Easy to combo too. Or check out a set of S55’s.



    And I would agree that the Mizuno 900 Tour is pretty much blade-like, but not the 919 Tour. A big step toward more forgiveness in the new one. You should not fear it after blades. The 900 Forged is an all-time great, the 919 F is actually a larger profile and sole due to a manufacturing change to make it even faster, but both are fabulous. Good deals out there on the 900 series if you don’t need the newest thing.



    And I agree with the poster who said beware of major changes in shaft weight and swing weight, at least all at once. I went from a standard S300 to a 90-gram shaft for one almost comical session at the range. I nearly whiffed a few, topped a few and the contact was everywhere on the face. It was like I had just started the game.



    Went back up to the 115-120g range at D1-D3 and I was fine. Your swing sequence and timing can really get thrown off by a dramatic change in weight. And you will not necessarily swing a lighter shaft faster or gain distance. If you can swing a heavier one at the same speed as a lighter one, hit the ball with the heavier object. A 12-ounce baseball bat could be made, but you won’t see a Major Leaguer swinging one. You’re looking to find the weight at which you are most efficient, powerful and don’t tire out. Check out the 110-115g range and see how you like it.
    Ping G400 9 degrees, Ping Tour stiff shaft, 65 grams
    Callaway XHot2 Pro 5 wood, 17 degrees, Aldila Tour Blue stiff shaft
    Titleist 915F fairway, 21 degrees, Diamana Blue 70 stiff
    Srixon 565 4 iron, Nippon 980GH stiff shaft
    Adams CMB irons, 5-PW, KBS C Taper regular shafts (110g)
    Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degree, F grind, Dynamic Gold S200 shaft
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 54-degree wedge, S grind, DG wedge shaft
    Ben Hogan TK wedge, 59 degree, KBS black wedge shaft
    TaylorMade TP Chaska putter, sliver, 34 inches
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Members Posts: 3,043 ✭✭
    chisag wrote:

    MelloYello wrote:

    chisag wrote:


    ... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.




    That's golf. I've had the same exposure but I think it's just kind of evidence in support of the notion that even golf can be out-muscled to a certain degree.



    We've all had the chance to play with someone who had the strongest grip in the world and some wacky swing who could bomb it 350 just like you're describing. Those types never fail to produce the most ridiculous looking bombs off the tee. They bash their 5-iron 200+ and their stock shot is high and straight. I've met multiple people who fit in that category. I've never met a single one though who regularly broke 80.



    The thing that stops them is often the fact that the closer they get to the green, the more incompetent they seem to become. So sure that ham-handed grip can bash it a mile off the tee but they can't fathom what it takes to hit a simple 25-yd lob shot when it comes time to get up and down. Heck, I've seen those types confused by basic chip and pitch shots!



    So as a result they either hit 12 greens making the game look stupid easy and shoot a personal best of 78 or things go rough and they become the very definition of a hacker.






    ... I hear ya, but my story was more about iron choices so I didn't go into detail but this kid had a very sound swing and good all around game. Reminded me a little of Rory with some of the fastest hips I have ever witnessed. How anyone can move their hips so fast and keep up with the rest of their body is truly impressive. He said it was natural for him as a DI hitter. And by suspect short game, I really meant in comparison to his full game. He played like a +5 from tee to green and more like a 5 around the green, as he was certainly competent. He shot a 75 fwiw and was only 25 and didn't start playing serous golf til after college so I have a feeling his short game will keep getting better.




    Man, that's fascinating. I have to wonder whether he developed that golf swing by himself or whether it was working with a coach--any clue? I could imagine that a real athlete, one that's accustomed to working alongside a quality coach might immediately go in that direction as opposed to making some attempt to dig it out of the dirt at the local range.



    For whatever reason, I just assume that people of that ilk don't really function in sports like the rest of us. What they might describe as a 'half-assed attempt to give golf a go' might really still blow the average person away, you know?
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5)
    Hybrid: Tour Edge Exotics E8 (19)
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (3-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52 (F) / 56 (F) / 60 (S)
    Putter: Nike Method Milled 003
  • chisagchisag Members Posts: 2,909 ✭✭
    ... He said after college baseball he missed the competition and took up golf with a passion. He was in a cart with a friend and I was walking so we didn't talk a ton and I didn't ask if he took lessons. (As an aside I am 65 and always walk but am shocked how many young in shape people ride in carts, I am guessing they are future cart riding beer bellies LOL)



    ... I think many ex athletes come to golf and fall in love instantly. I played QB from 2nd grade thru my sr year in college and after leaving school really missed the competition and found it in tennis. But after you get to a certain level it is difficult to find competition or even people to play with and at 30 I finally found golf and took up the game with a vengeance that still burns 35 years later. It is so unique in being both easy and amazing difficult at the same time. I love that I can play and compete with the course but still play with anyone regardless of index. I studied the swing relentlessly and ended up teaching for 5 years until a disc injury from my football days required 2 surgeries. It took my 30 years to reach a + index and I am still trying to get better every day. I think athletes are wired that way and many never stop competing. But I also know athletes that are just naturally gifted and perfectly content to shoot in the low 80's to upper 70's without putting any time into the game.
    Cobra F9 Tour Length ... Atmos Blue TS 65s
    Cobra F9 15.5* ... Atmos Blue TS 75s
    Cobra F6 Baffler ... Kuro Kage Black 75s
    TaylorMade UDi 18* 2 iron... HZRDUS Black 85hy
    4-pw TaylorMade P790 ... Recoil Prototype 95's
    SM6 52* F Grind /SM7 D Grind 58* ... Recoil 110s
    Bobby Grace 6330 ... 33.5"
  • revanantrevanant Members Posts: 97 ✭✭
    edited Mar 4, 2019 6:26pm #150
    The three best irons I've hit are the Callaway Apex MB, Mizuno MP-4, and Titleist 716 CBs.



    If you want a more forgiving iron that feels great and looks like a blade, I think the 716 CBs are a great choice.

    Cobra King LTD
    Cobra Amp Cell 3W
    Cobra F6 Baffler 5W
    Mizuno MP-4 w/ Project X 6.0
    Titleist Vokey SM5 54-10 M
    Mizuno JPX 58-14
    Ping Redwood D66

  • reider69 wrote:


    GIR is the single most important stat to scoring in golf in my opinion. I have owned a set of MP-4s and have played many cavity backs. In my experience a ball strike off center is severely punished by a blade and I have a very high swing speed. My 900 forged can be hit very poorly and they never seem to fall short of the green. When a toe strike from 200 yards ends up on green and allows me to putt that is evidence of a cavity backs value. A toe strike with an MP-4 from 200 wouldn't sniff the green and I would be chipping. That difference in which type of club I chose to hit makes a difference in my score. Why were the Ping Eye 2s so transcendently popular and game changing? Because guys found that a perimeter weighted cavity back was much easier to hit and more forgiving than the blades they had played prior. The Ping Eye 2 helped golfers score better. People believe what they want to believe but I believe that most(99%) amateurs will score better with cavity backs as opposed to blades.




    So many good responses in this forum already -- thank you everyone!



    I do agree with you as well about GIR. That's usually the stat I try to go by the most. Yes, I understand not all GIR are created equal, but more often than not your scores will still improve if you're facing a 50ft putt versus a 10y chip. Statistically almost everyone 3-putts less often than they fail to get up-and-down.



    I agree with you particularly on the longer clubs too. Just for simple math, let's say a toe hit with a blade loses 10% distance, and a toe hit with a CB with some weight there loses 5% distance. On my stock 168y 8-iron, a toe hit with a blade comes up 16.8y short while my CB comes up 8.4y short. On a 200y shot we're talking 20y and 10y. Even if the distance is smaller, we're talking potentially more GIR per round and potentially closer to the pin. No club will save a bad mishit, but I do believe club design can aid my particular miss and help me get it slightly closer to the pin more often.



    There's an article out there that statistically breaks down your average GIR and can calculate what score you probably shoot on average. The difference between 10, 12, and 14 GIR per round is a huge difference in scoring. If I can make an equipment change and improve my GIR even by 1 per round, I'm most likely going to lower scores in the long run. That's sort of what I am aiming for.
    “Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same
    time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
    - Arnold Palmer
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