Why do some kids never move on to higher level

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  • kcapkcap Members Posts: 154 ✭✭
    tatertot wrote:

    dpb5031 wrote:


    dpb5031 wrote:



    Well...

    At 23 when I thought about going overseas to play professional sports my parents said, it doesn't sound like a path to financial security. So really why wait to get started?

    At 17, when colleges started knocking on our door for my child, I asked what they wanted to do. The answer was, "I just want be a normal kid. I don't love it enough to be a good teammate."



    I firmly believe in letting kids be kids. And most every other satisfied athlete would agree. It has nothing to do with the kids talent (or lack thereof) it has to do with the parent's.




    So, if your kid is 100% resolute and consistent in his/her expressed thoughts and opinions about whatever the issue that's an easy one and I'd agree with you as well as your kid.



    But what if your kid (like many, if not most) has a mindset that goes from one end of the spectrum to the opposite in a relatively short period of time, whether due to some external influence or whatever that plays on his or her natural impulsivity and immaturity? Two weeks ago he wanted to play college soccer and actually showed some promise in it through his travel team play etc, yet today he doesn't give a **** because he doesn't want to miss a local party. Oh, and BTW....next week he's going to be begging you to go to a $5k soccer camp in the summer? What's the answer now? Can you not see that it's not always so cut and dry?




    A guy I work with has a son who 6 years ago had several full ride D1 offers to pitch in college. The kid wanted to play, but his girlfriend wanted him to stay home. The dad let him. He worked at Target while going to a CC and is now going to Fire School. He and his girlfriend broke up a year later.




    Exactly! Short-sighted, impulsive, and foolish, but hey, it's his life! ��




    The dad "let him"? The "kid" is 18 or 19, he's making his own decisions, it's time for mommy and daddy to let go.



    Nothing wrong with CC and Fire School. Full ride, D1 and pitching in college is not a guarantee to a happy life. As parents, you have to realize it's not your life.



    And yes, it IS his life, not his daddy's ... that's the point.




    Great. Why don't you let your 10 yr make his own choices and sit in front of Forntnite all night and forget school. Where do you draw the line?



    Different cultures along with different parenting styles will lead to a lot of disagreement on this board. Every child is different, heck my son and daughter are very different and they have same genes.



    I am not in the kids be kids camp - there is a time and place for that; as there is a time to push them to maximize their potential.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,004 ✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:




    The dad "let him"? The "kid" is 18 or 19, he's making his own decisions, it's time for mommy and daddy to let go.



    Nothing wrong with CC and Fire School. Full ride, D1 and pitching in college is not a guarantee to a happy life. As parents, you have to realize it's not your life.



    And yes, it IS his life, not his daddy's ... that's the point.




    An 18 year old kid doesn't know #$%# when it comes to life. My kid would have been pitching in college. If it didn't work out then so be it. He wouldn't have had a choice. If it didn't work out he could have always gone back to fire school. You can never go back and get that full ride for a free education and to play ball as well.
  • PetethreeputPetethreeput Members Posts: 1,420 ✭✭
    "No kid who has done well has not had a parent behind pushing them and helping them make good descisions in life."



    I completely disagree. Support and pushing are two completely different ideas. A parent can support and educate without pushing. And I truly believe if there were any reading done on the subject this sentence would have never been written.



    The extremes posted in this thread are shocking to me. You post this, then another poster says, "Great. Why don't you let your 10 yr make his own choices and sit in front of Forntnite all night and forget school. Where do you draw the line?"



    In my view there are three major jobs for a parent; 1, teach a child right, wrong, manners, and the ability to be engaging, 2. expose them to as many activities that interest them growing up and let them choose what interests them, 3. support them to the best of my ability to be who they want to be.



    Nowhere in this credo is there a college scholarship, or the "focus" to be the best (because if they find their passion they will become the best they can be), and nowhere is sports mentioned.



    Was I disappointed when college sports was rejected? Of course i was, for two reasons, 1. and most importantly is sports is the best way to meet people in a new place... ever, and 2. it meant i had to pay for college. It's a different view of how kids develop and grow, and what is important. Personally, sports just aren't that important. They simply aren't. And recognition for athletics is even less important. If anyone here meets my children and they say, "That's a good kid." then I was successful.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,011 ✭✭
    tatertot wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:



    It’s their life. I honestly couldn’t have cared less if he played a sport in college. My parents didn’t care if I did either.

    I probably would have paid the $5K if they thought it’d be fun. For me, it’s about what they want to do and support them. And really, if there was a concern, well there is no guarantee it wouldn’t come up again. After the commitment for money. At that point it’s not a game, it’s a job. On the other hand, if it’s still encouraged and accepted, who’s to say the kid doesn’t walk on if the spirit moves them.

    The issue isn’t about whether a child is “focused” the question is do they want to be focused. And every kid is different, some kids live to compete, some kids don’t. But it isn’t tied to aptitude, it’s attitude.

    And those kids who truly forge their own way are the ones who become great (with exceptions like Tiger). Parents who push run more talented kids out of sport than the vice versa.

    I truly believe that. And after 20 years of coaching I saw much more of that than success. Over 70% of all high school athletes quit by their senior year. Is it bc they all got cut? I doubt it.




    This makes no sense at all. If you want your kid to succeed you need to push them and give them encouragement. You can’t just let’s kid do what ever they want to do. That how you raise a gangbanger or future loser who just plays video games all day and does drugs.



    No kid who has done well has not had a parent behind pushing them and helping them make good descisions in life.




    This is so wrong on so many different levels ... believe or not, kids have succeeded out of many different environment, including ones without supportive parents, or adults of any kinds.



    You are a big part of your child's success ... but you are putting yourself in the driver's seat, and you are not. It is not your life. You had your chance. Give them theirs. Just because you reproduced doesn't give you the right to puppet another human's life. "Pushing" your kid in extracurricular activities may lead to short term success, but it's going to lead to burn out and failure.




    You must not have kids. I am not saying that you need to make them practice or study every waking hour or never let them out to have fun. At the same time you have to be a parent and that means making descions for them. If a kid doesn’t want to listen they will move out get a job and support themselves. Obviously most of the comments saying let you kids be kids have no clue when it comes to Junior golf or any other sport. To succeed you really do need your parents support an commitment both financially and emotionally to compete.



  • SixcatSixcat SWVAPosts: 1,416 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:



    It’s their life. I honestly couldn’t have cared less if he played a sport in college. My parents didn’t care if I did either.

    I probably would have paid the $5K if they thought it’d be fun. For me, it’s about what they want to do and support them. And really, if there was a concern, well there is no guarantee it wouldn’t come up again. After the commitment for money. At that point it’s not a game, it’s a job. On the other hand, if it’s still encouraged and accepted, who’s to say the kid doesn’t walk on if the spirit moves them.

    The issue isn’t about whether a child is “focused” the question is do they want to be focused. And every kid is different, some kids live to compete, some kids don’t. But it isn’t tied to aptitude, it’s attitude.

    And those kids who truly forge their own way are the ones who become great (with exceptions like Tiger). Parents who push run more talented kids out of sport than the vice versa.

    I truly believe that. And after 20 years of coaching I saw much more of that than success. Over 70% of all high school athletes quit by their senior year. Is it bc they all got cut? I doubt it.




    This makes no sense at all. If you want your kid to succeed you need to push them and give them encouragement. You can’t just let’s kid do what ever they want to do. That how you raise a gangbanger or future loser who just plays video games all day and does drugs.



    No kid who has done well has not had a parent behind pushing them and helping them make good descisions in life.




    You can also "push" them straight into a life of drugs and alcohol. Ask Todd Marinovich!
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members Posts: 3,519 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:


    You must not have kids. I am not saying that you need to make them practice or study every waking hour or never let them out to have fun. At the same time you have to be a parent and that means making descions for them. If a kid doesn’t want to listen they will move out get a job and support themselves. Obviously most of the comments saying let you kids be kids have no clue when it comes to Junior golf or any other sport. To succeed you really do need your parents support an commitment both financially and emotionally to compete.




    I think I've done OK without pushy parents, but maybe I'm a loser by your standards...



    An interesting dichotomy to think about is the Roger Federer vs. Venus & Serena Williams models. Federer was effectively a free range kid who was encouraged to pursue a bunch of different sports and he fell in love with tennis. The Williams sisters were driven by their dad to be tennis players from a very early age. Both Federer and Serena Williams grew up to be among the greatest of all time in their sport. There is not one clear path.
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 963 ✭✭
    Sixcat wrote:




    You can also "push" them straight into a life of drugs and alcohol. Ask Todd Marinovich!




    I worked at a gym with his dad and he was a very strange dude. Rumor had it that he had Todd teething on protein ice cubes before he was a year old. Mind you, he was a top trainer at that gym and I was a HS kid that would rack weights before and after school for a free membership.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,304 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:

    tatertot wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:



    It’s their life. I honestly couldn’t have cared less if he played a sport in college. My parents didn’t care if I did either.

    I probably would have paid the $5K if they thought it’d be fun. For me, it’s about what they want to do and support them. And really, if there was a concern, well there is no guarantee it wouldn’t come up again. After the commitment for money. At that point it’s not a game, it’s a job. On the other hand, if it’s still encouraged and accepted, who’s to say the kid doesn’t walk on if the spirit moves them.

    The issue isn’t about whether a child is “focused” the question is do they want to be focused. And every kid is different, some kids live to compete, some kids don’t. But it isn’t tied to aptitude, it’s attitude.

    And those kids who truly forge their own way are the ones who become great (with exceptions like Tiger). Parents who push run more talented kids out of sport than the vice versa.

    I truly believe that. And after 20 years of coaching I saw much more of that than success. Over 70% of all high school athletes quit by their senior year. Is it bc they all got cut? I doubt it.




    This makes no sense at all. If you want your kid to succeed you need to push them and give them encouragement. You can’t just let’s kid do what ever they want to do. That how you raise a gangbanger or future loser who just plays video games all day and does drugs.



    No kid who has done well has not had a parent behind pushing them and helping them make good descisions in life.




    This is so wrong on so many different levels ... believe or not, kids have succeeded out of many different environment, including ones without supportive parents, or adults of any kinds.



    You are a big part of your child's success ... but you are putting yourself in the driver's seat, and you are not. It is not your life. You had your chance. Give them theirs. Just because you reproduced doesn't give you the right to puppet another human's life. "Pushing" your kid in extracurricular activities may lead to short term success, but it's going to lead to burn out and failure.




    You must not have kids. I am not saying that you need to make them practice or study every waking hour or never let them out to have fun. At the same time you have to be a parent and that means making descions for them. If a kid doesn’t want to listen they will move out get a job and support themselves. Obviously most of the comments saying let you kids be kids have no clue when it comes to Junior golf or any other sport. To succeed you really do need your parents support an commitment both financially and emotionally to compete.




    I do ... If you would take time to read, you would know that, as I have posted in this very thread. He plays high level select soccer. And I'm the president of our local soccer club. I'm guessing I know more about the inner workings of junior sports than 90% of this board, and it's not pretty.
    Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9°
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  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,304 ✭✭

    dpb5031 wrote:


    The dad "let him"? The "kid" is 18 or 19, he's making his own decisions, it's time for mommy and daddy to let go.



    Nothing wrong with CC and Fire School. Full ride, D1 and pitching in college is not a guarantee to a happy life. As parents, you have to realize it's not your life.



    And yes, it IS his life, not his daddy's ... that's the point.




    An 18 year old kid doesn't know #$%# when it comes to life. My kid would have been pitching in college. If it didn't work out then so be it. He wouldn't have had a choice. If it didn't work out he could have always gone back to fire school. You can never go back and get that full ride for a free education and to play ball as well.




    On his wedding night, you going to be there with him giving him pointers, too?



    You wonder why we have 35 year old boys moving back home to live in mom's basement? It's because daddy doesn't want them to grow up. He wants to make all his decisions for him and be his little mini-me. When it comes time to make big-boy decisions, he's clueless, because daddy never let him decide if he likes Coke or Pepsi.
    Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9°
    Fairway: Adams Fast 10, 15*
    Irons: Ping i200 3 iron, Ping iE1 4-PW
    Wedges: Titleist SM7, 48º; Titleist SM5, 54º & 58º
    Putter: Cleveland Classics Huntington Beach #1, 35"
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,011 ✭✭
    tatertot wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:

    tatertot wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:



    It’s their life. I honestly couldn’t have cared less if he played a sport in college. My parents didn’t care if I did either.

    I probably would have paid the $5K if they thought it’d be fun. For me, it’s about what they want to do and support them. And really, if there was a concern, well there is no guarantee it wouldn’t come up again. After the commitment for money. At that point it’s not a game, it’s a job. On the other hand, if it’s still encouraged and accepted, who’s to say the kid doesn’t walk on if the spirit moves them.

    The issue isn’t about whether a child is “focused” the question is do they want to be focused. And every kid is different, some kids live to compete, some kids don’t. But it isn’t tied to aptitude, it’s attitude.

    And those kids who truly forge their own way are the ones who become great (with exceptions like Tiger). Parents who push run more talented kids out of sport than the vice versa.

    I truly believe that. And after 20 years of coaching I saw much more of that than success. Over 70% of all high school athletes quit by their senior year. Is it bc they all got cut? I doubt it.




    This makes no sense at all. If you want your kid to succeed you need to push them and give them encouragement. You can’t just let’s kid do what ever they want to do. That how you raise a gangbanger or future loser who just plays video games all day and does drugs.



    No kid who has done well has not had a parent behind pushing them and helping them make good descisions in life.




    This is so wrong on so many different levels ... believe or not, kids have succeeded out of many different environment, including ones without supportive parents, or adults of any kinds.



    You are a big part of your child's success ... but you are putting yourself in the driver's seat, and you are not. It is not your life. You had your chance. Give them theirs. Just because you reproduced doesn't give you the right to puppet another human's life. "Pushing" your kid in extracurricular activities may lead to short term success, but it's going to lead to burn out and failure.




    You must not have kids. I am not saying that you need to make them practice or study every waking hour or never let them out to have fun. At the same time you have to be a parent and that means making descions for them. If a kid doesn’t want to listen they will move out get a job and support themselves. Obviously most of the comments saying let you kids be kids have no clue when it comes to Junior golf or any other sport. To succeed you really do need your parents support an commitment both financially and emotionally to compete.




    I do ... If you would take time to read, you would know that, as I have posted in this very thread. He plays high level select soccer. And I'm the president of our local soccer club. I'm guessing I know more about the inner workings of junior sports than 90% of this board, and it's not pretty.




    I don't think too highly of soccer players especially if you play in the US. Seen a pro game once I walked out after I seen a sissy faking getting kicked.
  • NevergolfparNevergolfpar Members Posts: 56

    tiger1873 wrote:

    tatertot wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I have two examples in my family. My daughter began playing golf at about age 7. She was able to get so far but hanging out with her friends and having other experiences besides golf became more important to her than golf. She took up playing the Mandolin and is on the middle school track team. She has also tried competitive swimming, basketball, soccer and softball. I think it's great. I want her to be happy and couldn't care less if she plays golf. If she is happy and healthy, I am a proud and happy father!



    My nephew began playing baseball at about age 6. It got to the point he was playing 300 games per year all over the country without anything resembling free time. He was an excellent catcher and started getting the attention of some ACC and SEC baseball programs by the beginning of high school. At which point, he burned out and hasn't played baseball since. My brother has been nothing short of supportive. My nephew is happy, healthy and enjoying what little time he has left being a kid.



    As parents, we should be careful not to live our childhood regrets through our children! Let them be who they are, not who we may want them to be!




    Wish I could like this more than once ... Parents, please let your kids be kids. They shouldn't be working on college scholarships at age 6. The they'll never be a kid again. They'll have years and years to earn money and do plenty of "adult" things with adult responsibilities. Give them opportunities, but let them decide if they want to take them.




    I really don't think anyone does golf for college scholarships. I do however think a lot people play golf for many reason and those that play golf have a lot doors opened for them and should take advantage of those opportunities. Those doors can mean a lot things too. Also as the kids get older a lot times it is the kids leading the parents into more competitive golf.



    Believe it not some kids crave the competition and will do anything to play more. I actually think that is the norm more as kids get older. This golf stuff is tough and expensive for parents. Kind of jealous of those california parents who can't be a spectator and drop the kids off for the day to play golf.




    What doors open by being good at golf? And how good are you talking? Just curious where your mind is when taking this journey with your daughters.



    Is college not a means to an end? That's how I view college. Good high school, easier to get into a good college. The better college, the easier it is to get certain jobs or easier path to a good grad school. Ultimately, is it not to make a living?



    So golf, unlike basketball or football, can't fully mask the academic requirements to get into a good college. But it can provide an amazing opportunity to be a student athlete. Then what? It's not like going to a better golf college increases your chances to go pro - there's Q school open for all.



    So if the drive of parents or kids to be the best golfer possible as a junior is not for college or pro, not sure what it's for. To be the best golfer that junior can be because the junior truly loves golf? If that's your only motivation then you don't need to spend money playing national tournaments or chase rankings and can just stick to your local pga section - plenty of competitive amateur and open events to get the competition you need/are seeking.



    So let's not kid ourselves - everyone (junior or parent) has aspirations of college golf or professional golf if they are training and competing to be an elite junior golfer. It's not so you can make business relationships - you need to first be in a position where those relationships would come to any fruition.




    No disrespect intended but you are wrong. My son will be graduating from college in May, after playing 4 years of D1 golf in which he had about 80% of all his expenses paid through athletic scholarship. With a major in parks and recreation, a rigorous academic pursuit if I say so myself (sarcasm), he has already turned down multiple job offers. When I inquired about the interview process he went through, he responded, 'I didn't interview, they just offered me a job'. One of the offers was $85,000 a year in Tampa Florida. In each case, he was offered a job after playing in a corporate golf outing, after playing with the owner or president of the company. As someone who worked my butt off in college and struggled to open any door I could, I was very surprised to see how many doors are already open for my son. I'm not saying that working hard at academics while in college is not beneficial, all I am saying is being good at golf (very good) opens opportunities indicative of a young man who enjoys the benefits of a father who is three tax brackets higher than myself.


  • tiger1873 wrote:

    tatertot wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I have two examples in my family. My daughter began playing golf at about age 7. She was able to get so far but hanging out with her friends and having other experiences besides golf became more important to her than golf. She took up playing the Mandolin and is on the middle school track team. She has also tried competitive swimming, basketball, soccer and softball. I think it's great. I want her to be happy and couldn't care less if she plays golf. If she is happy and healthy, I am a proud and happy father!



    My nephew began playing baseball at about age 6. It got to the point he was playing 300 games per year all over the country without anything resembling free time. He was an excellent catcher and started getting the attention of some ACC and SEC baseball programs by the beginning of high school. At which point, he burned out and hasn't played baseball since. My brother has been nothing short of supportive. My nephew is happy, healthy and enjoying what little time he has left being a kid.



    As parents, we should be careful not to live our childhood regrets through our children! Let them be who they are, not who we may want them to be!




    Wish I could like this more than once ... Parents, please let your kids be kids. They shouldn't be working on college scholarships at age 6. The they'll never be a kid again. They'll have years and years to earn money and do plenty of "adult" things with adult responsibilities. Give them opportunities, but let them decide if they want to take them.




    I really don't think anyone does golf for college scholarships. I do however think a lot people play golf for many reason and those that play golf have a lot doors opened for them and should take advantage of those opportunities. Those doors can mean a lot things too. Also as the kids get older a lot times it is the kids leading the parents into more competitive golf.



    Believe it not some kids crave the competition and will do anything to play more. I actually think that is the norm more as kids get older. This golf stuff is tough and expensive for parents. Kind of jealous of those california parents who can't be a spectator and drop the kids off for the day to play golf.




    What doors open by being good at golf? And how good are you talking? Just curious where your mind is when taking this journey with your daughters.



    Is college not a means to an end? That's how I view college. Good high school, easier to get into a good college. The better college, the easier it is to get certain jobs or easier path to a good grad school. Ultimately, is it not to make a living?



    So golf, unlike basketball or football, can't fully mask the academic requirements to get into a good college. But it can provide an amazing opportunity to be a student athlete. Then what? It's not like going to a better golf college increases your chances to go pro - there's Q school open for all.



    So if the drive of parents or kids to be the best golfer possible as a junior is not for college or pro, not sure what it's for. To be the best golfer that junior can be because the junior truly loves golf? If that's your only motivation then you don't need to spend money playing national tournaments or chase rankings and can just stick to your local pga section - plenty of competitive amateur and open events to get the competition you need/are seeking.



    So let's not kid ourselves - everyone (junior or parent) has aspirations of college golf or professional golf if they are training and competing to be an elite junior golfer. It's not so you can make business relationships - you need to first be in a position where those relationships would come to any fruition.




    No disrespect intended but you are wrong. My son will be graduating from college in May, after playing 4 years of D1 golf in which he had about 80% of all his expenses paid through athletic scholarship. With a major in parks and recreation, a rigorous academic pursuit if I say so myself (sarcasm), he has already turned down multiple job offers. When I inquired about the interview process he went through, he responded, 'I didn't interview, they just offered me a job'. One of the offers was $85,000 a year in Tampa Florida. In each case, he was offered a job after playing in a corporate golf outing, after playing with the owner or president of the company. As someone who worked my butt off in college and struggled to open any door I could, I was very surprised to see how many doors are already open for my son. I'm not saying that working hard at academics while in college is not beneficial, all I am saying is being good at golf (very good) opens opportunities indicative of a young man who enjoys the benefits of a father who is three tax brackets higher than myself.




    You and I are talking completely different industries and levels of pay.
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members Posts: 3,519 ✭✭
    One correlation I find interesting is that the group of parents who feel the need to "help" their kids along with decisions, also feel like their kids (without parental intervention) will make bad (or at least less than optimal) decisions. "Kids will be kids" to these parents presumes that "kids" make bad decisions.



    Do these parents ever wonder if making every decision for their kids actually makes the kids inherently bad at making decisions?



    Is it correlation, or is it causality?



    Who am I kidding, I'm sure these parents don't ever wonder about this, because they already know everything...
  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX Posts: 8,782 ClubWRX
    Back to the OP. Why don't kids move on to a higher level? I think there are a million and one reasons and frankly if your child is excelling then it shouldn't matter to you one bit. With that said, below are a few of the reasons (in no particular order) among younger kids since that is all I have experience with:



    - Lost interest

    - Lack of skill

    - Money

    - Burnout

    - Parents don't have the time or means to nurture the child to reach higher levels.

    - Lack of practice



    Normally it's a good mixture of all 6.
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 963 ✭✭
    edited Mar 6, 2019 5:37pm #76
    kekoa wrote:
    Back to the OP. Why don't kids move on to a higher level? I think there are a million and one reasons and frankly if your child is excelling then it shouldn't matter to you one bit. With that said, below are a few of the reasons (in no particular order) among younger kids since that is all I have experience with:



    - Lost interest

    - Lack of skill

    - Money

    - Burnout

    - Parents don't have the time or means to nurture the child to reach higher levels.

    - Lack of practice



    Normally it's a good mixture of all 6.


    Thank you for getting this thread back on track.



    edit: whelp... that didn't last long.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • CTgolfCTgolf Posts: 407 ✭✭




    What doors open by being good at golf? And how good are you talking? Just curious where your mind is when taking this journey with your daughters.



    Is college not a means to an end? That's how I view college. Good high school, easier to get into a good college. The better college, the easier it is to get certain jobs or easier path to a good grad school. Ultimately, is it not to make a living?



    So golf, unlike basketball or football, can't fully mask the academic requirements to get into a good college. But it can provide an amazing opportunity to be a student athlete. Then what? It's not like going to a better golf college increases your chances to go pro - there's Q school open for all.



    So if the drive of parents or kids to be the best golfer possible as a junior is not for college or pro, not sure what it's for. To be the best golfer that junior can be because the junior truly loves golf? If that's your only motivation then you don't need to spend money playing national tournaments or chase rankings and can just stick to your local pga section - plenty of competitive amateur and open events to get the competition you need/are seeking.



    So let's not kid ourselves - everyone (junior or parent) has aspirations of college golf or professional golf if they are training and competing to be an elite junior golfer. It's not so you can make business relationships - you need to first be in a position where those relationships would come to any fruition.




    These are excellent questions and points.



    IMVHO being really good at something is its own reward. Knowing that one is highly skilled, and perhaps one of the best among peers, is a huge boost to self esteem and confidence. Oh and it also feels great and brings joy and happiness, to the individual as well as family/friends.



    Additionally, the things required to be really great at something - goal-setting, formulating a plan/strategy for success, executing on the plan, discipline, hard work, self-motivation, persistence - carry over to other areas of life, and will no doubt ultimately help achieve one's full potential in non-golf pursuits.



    I have come to full acceptance that, even if all of the activities my kids pursue doesn't help them in college admissions or a professional career in that discipline, they will be better off for having competed at an extremely high level and being considered "one of the best" in what they are participating in. And I have also concluded that it was worth all of the time, money and effort I have invested in their development no matter what level they eventually participate at in that chosen activity later in life.
  • LUMALUMA I Am My Greatest Downfall Jax Beaches, FL.Posts: 2,368 ✭✭
    edited Mar 6, 2019 3:24pm #78
    In my personal experience, it is a delicate soup. It's the parents, friends, drive, passion, plans, etc. It is a delicate balance. I feel that I had a great chance to do something with my game but I feel my dad in particular did not push me in the "right" direction, although he was a very good player himself. My dads side of the family were all very good golfers but I always felt like my game wasn't important to them so I played by myself and for myself. Some direction and education would have been great but I started to actually do this after I graduated high school and took my game where it should have been heading all along. I also did not enjoy school so working on grades and scholarships was not a priority for me personally.



    I think it takes the right amount of push and knowledge from the parents, surrounding yourself with the right people growing up such as friends and coaches, taking school more seriously, having passion for the game and willing to work hard at the game. I feel that many things need to line up and if any of those factors do not, you must make sure other factors make up for it. This is just my opinion and my experience



    I would love to make another go at it in some capacity but "I" am making the choice to not make those sacrifices. I choose to work on a career and a family over golf.



    Golf is a life consuming thing, even for those who do not play the game for a living. Will tell you though, I love where my life is right now and although I may have some regrets about certain things, I am glad they happened because I wouldn't be where I am now.
    Callaway Epic Sub Zero 9 deg / Aldila Rouge
    Titleist 915 F 15 deg / Diamana 70
    Callaway XR 19 deg Hybrid / Project X LZ S
    Titleist 718 MB PW-4i / Project X 6.0 
    Titleist Vokey SM5 50/54/58
    Scotty Cameron Newport 2.5
  • dpb5031dpb5031 Members Posts: 5,025 ✭✭
    raynorfan1 wrote:


    One correlation I find interesting is that the group of parents who feel the need to "help" their kids along with decisions, also feel like their kids (without parental intervention) will make bad (or at least less than optimal) decisions. "Kids will be kids" to these parents presumes that "kids" make bad decisions.



    Do these parents ever wonder if making every decision for their kids actually makes the kids inherently bad at making decisions?



    Is it correlation, or is it causality?



    Who am I kidding, I'm sure these parents don't ever wonder about this, because they already know everything...




    Please report back after you have kids of your own to let us know how it's going.



    You figured it out on your own. Congratulations! And I'm very serious, no sarcasm. Please understand however that your view is extraordinarily myopic.



    I dont think it's a stretch to say that most kids do better when they have loving parents who are involved, hold them accountable, and are generally concerned about their future. This doesn't mean the parents have to be psychos like Sean O'Hair's, Andre Agassi's or the Williams sister's dads.
    USGA Index: ~2

    WITB:
    2018 Taylormade M3 8.5 Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 6x
    Taylormade M2 Tour 15 Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 S
    Kasco K2K 33 - UST Axivcore 65 Tour Green S
    Ping G 22 Hybrid (2 flat) - Ping Tour 80 S
    Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
    Ping Glide 2.0 - SS 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
    Taylormade Ho Toe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
    Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
    Taylormade TP5X Ball
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,004 ✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:


    One correlation I find interesting is that the group of parents who feel the need to "help" their kids along with decisions, also feel like their kids (without parental intervention) will make bad (or at least less than optimal) decisions. "Kids will be kids" to these parents presumes that "kids" make bad decisions.



    Do these parents ever wonder if making every decision for their kids actually makes the kids inherently bad at making decisions?



    Is it correlation, or is it causality?



    Who am I kidding, I'm sure these parents don't ever wonder about this, because they already know everything...




    Please report back after you have kids of your own to let us know how it's going.



    You figured it out on your own. Congratulations! And I'm very serious, no sarcasm. Please understand however that your view is extraordinarily myopic.



    I dont think it's a stretch to say that most kids do better when they have loving parents who are involved, hold them accountable, and are generally concerned about their future. This doesn't mean the parents have to be psychos like Sean O'Hair's, Andre Agassi's or the Williams sister's dads.




    I have purposely stayed out of this thread and responding to people for the most part as not to get political. There are several people I want to respond to and just tell them that they are flat wrong. As I texted you, a lot of what is being said in this thread is what is wrong with our country. A progressive way of thinking which spells doom from the get go. Let your kids major in art and live at home the rest of their lives. They are adults and can make their own decisions. BS!!!! Get a real degree and get a real job. Parents know best, most of the time.
  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX Posts: 8,782 ClubWRX
    dpb5031 wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:


    One correlation I find interesting is that the group of parents who feel the need to "help" their kids along with decisions, also feel like their kids (without parental intervention) will make bad (or at least less than optimal) decisions. "Kids will be kids" to these parents presumes that "kids" make bad decisions.



    Do these parents ever wonder if making every decision for their kids actually makes the kids inherently bad at making decisions?



    Is it correlation, or is it causality?



    Who am I kidding, I'm sure these parents don't ever wonder about this, because they already know everything...




    Please report back after you have kids of your own to let us know how it's going.



    You figured it out on your own. Congratulations! And I'm very serious, no sarcasm. Please understand however that your view is extraordinarily myopic.



    I dont think it's a stretch to say that most kids do better when they have loving parents who are involved, hold them accountable, and are generally concerned about their future. This doesn't mean the parents have to be psychos like Sean O'Hair's, Andre Agassi's or the Williams sister's dads.




    Agreed. Don't forget Michelle Wie's parents. Ughhh.....
  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 59 ✭✭
    edited Mar 6, 2019 4:14pm #82
    Took my oldest son to a clinic one Sunday 10-12 years ago.



    The coach there was a multiple AAU National Championship winner. He asked one girl make a lay up. Of course she did no problem.



    He started layering on jackets, bags, etc. To replica parents, friends, peer pressure, boyfriends, etc....



    After 10 minutes of this layering. The girl could no longer make a layup. She was blogged down by all the weight.
    Cobra F8+ - Fujikura Regular
    Taylormade M1 5 Wood - Kuro Kage Regular
    Cobra Tour Forged 4-PW KBS Tour 90 R
    Fourteen 52 (Bent to 50) - Nippon R
    Fourteen 56 - Nippon R
    Vokey SM7 60 - Dynamic Gold
    Ray Cook Blue Goose BG40
    Titleist AVX
  • dpb5031dpb5031 Members Posts: 5,025 ✭✭


    Took my oldest son to a clinic one Sunday 10-12 years ago.



    The coach there was a multiple AAU National Championship winner. He asked one girl make a lay up. Of course she did no problem.



    He started lacking on jackets, bags, etc. To replica parents, friends, peer pressure, boyfriends, etc....



    After 10 minutes of this layering. The girl could no longer make a layup. She was blogged down by all the weight.




    WTF, you lost me...lol? Relevance? 🤔
    USGA Index: ~2

    WITB:
    2018 Taylormade M3 8.5 Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 6x
    Taylormade M2 Tour 15 Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 S
    Kasco K2K 33 - UST Axivcore 65 Tour Green S
    Ping G 22 Hybrid (2 flat) - Ping Tour 80 S
    Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
    Ping Glide 2.0 - SS 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
    Taylormade Ho Toe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
    Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
    Taylormade TP5X Ball
  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 59 ✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:



    Took my oldest son to a clinic one Sunday 10-12 years ago.



    The coach there was a multiple AAU National Championship winner. He asked one girl make a lay up. Of course she did no problem.



    He started lacking on jackets, bags, etc. To replica parents, friends, peer pressure, boyfriends, etc....



    After 10 minutes of this layering. The girl could no longer make a layup. She was blogged down by all the weight.




    WTF, you lost me...lol? Relevance? ��




    Why do some kids never move on to higher level
    Cobra F8+ - Fujikura Regular
    Taylormade M1 5 Wood - Kuro Kage Regular
    Cobra Tour Forged 4-PW KBS Tour 90 R
    Fourteen 52 (Bent to 50) - Nippon R
    Fourteen 56 - Nippon R
    Vokey SM7 60 - Dynamic Gold
    Ray Cook Blue Goose BG40
    Titleist AVX
  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,304 ✭✭

    dpb5031 wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:


    One correlation I find interesting is that the group of parents who feel the need to "help" their kids along with decisions, also feel like their kids (without parental intervention) will make bad (or at least less than optimal) decisions. "Kids will be kids" to these parents presumes that "kids" make bad decisions.



    Do these parents ever wonder if making every decision for their kids actually makes the kids inherently bad at making decisions?



    Is it correlation, or is it causality?



    Who am I kidding, I'm sure these parents don't ever wonder about this, because they already know everything...




    Please report back after you have kids of your own to let us know how it's going.



    You figured it out on your own. Congratulations! And I'm very serious, no sarcasm. Please understand however that your view is extraordinarily myopic.



    I dont think it's a stretch to say that most kids do better when they have loving parents who are involved, hold them accountable, and are generally concerned about their future. This doesn't mean the parents have to be psychos like Sean O'Hair's, Andre Agassi's or the Williams sister's dads.




    I have purposely stayed out of this thread and responding to people for the most part as not to get political. There are several people I want to respond to and just tell them that they are flat wrong. As I texted you, a lot of what is being said in this thread is what is wrong with our country. A progressive way of thinking which spells doom from the get go. Let your kids major in art and live at home the rest of their lives. They are adults and can make their own decisions. BS!!!! Get a real degree and get a real job. Parents know best, most of the time.




    And what do you base this vast base of knowledge on, oh wise one?
    Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9°
    Fairway: Adams Fast 10, 15*
    Irons: Ping i200 3 iron, Ping iE1 4-PW
    Wedges: Titleist SM7, 48º; Titleist SM5, 54º & 58º
    Putter: Cleveland Classics Huntington Beach #1, 35"
  • kcapkcap Members Posts: 154 ✭✭
    The thread is officially lost! Let us try and not get locked, although history suggests otherwise.





    At the end of day, there is not one single right or wrong answer for both the OP and all the diversions along the way.



    Each child, parent, culture and passion is different so what works for TT child will not work for mine..its that simple.



    @ to the post about performing under layers and the weight.. that is also taught. Every coach says, practice under pressure, simulate that feeling, so you will succeed when it really matter. BTW - that does not only hold for golf but for anything you do in life..
  • SixcatSixcat SWVAPosts: 1,416 ✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:


    One correlation I find interesting is that the group of parents who feel the need to "help" their kids along with decisions, also feel like their kids (without parental intervention) will make bad (or at least less than optimal) decisions. "Kids will be kids" to these parents presumes that "kids" make bad decisions.



    Do these parents ever wonder if making every decision for their kids actually makes the kids inherently bad at making decisions?



    Is it correlation, or is it causality?



    Who am I kidding, I'm sure these parents don't ever wonder about this, because they already know everything...




    Please report back after you have kids of your own to let us know how it's going.



    You figured it out on your own. Congratulations! And I'm very serious, no sarcasm. Please understand however that your view is extraordinarily myopic.



    I dont think it's a stretch to say that most kids do better when they have loving parents who are involved, hold them accountable, and are generally concerned about their future. This doesn't mean the parents have to be psychos like Sean O'Hair's, Andre Agassi's or the Williams sister's dads.




    I have purposely stayed out of this thread and responding to people for the most part as not to get political. There are several people I want to respond to and just tell them that they are flat wrong. As I texted you, a lot of what is being said in this thread is what is wrong with our country. A progressive way of thinking which spells doom from the get go. Let your kids major in art and live at home the rest of their lives. They are adults and can make their own decisions. BS!!!! Get a real degree and get a real job. Parents know best, most of the time.




    Those pesky Art degrees have worked out pretty well for Conan O’Brien, Madeleine Albright, Oprah Winfrey, Ken Chenault, and Clarence Thomas! �
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