Club Champion

Went today for a driver fitting with great expectations! Left quite disappointed. I am a higher handicapped player and older. My swing speed is in the low 80's. As we began I said I prefer a 44.5 inch length and a D0 swing weight. Was told the shaft lengths available were 45 to 45.5 playing length. To go less we had to use fairway wood shafts. Swing weight as tested were all D2+ Finally was told that the suggested shaft was one we had not tested. What? First time on Trackman and that was cool, but while I didn't give the fitter a low handicap client I expected more from the experience.

They don’t have shorter driver shafts so the fitter is correct that you’d need to use a fairways wood shaft. Did the fitter explain that they adapter that connects the shaft to the head weighs a good amount so there is no way a club could have a D0 swing weight unless the fitter counterweighted it. I’m surprised the fitter didn’t put some tape on the end of the shaft and just have you grip down. I’ve heard that since they only care about opening stores there are less experienced fitters doing the work so that sucks for us. I’d complain to corporate so they know. As expensive as they are, they should take the time to explain things

Have known a couple of guys who went to club champion - after going through all the bells and whistles of fitting with them, they still shoot the same scores. Honestly from what you stated you could play with any 10.5, regular flex light weight shaft, at 44.5 inches that you like like and you will be fine - if you cut down from the butt end to get to your 44.5 you would be close to D-0.

I wouldn’t use Club Champion if it was a free fitting. Those guys are a joke. Car salesmen with an agenda.

Yes, very bad experience with them in ATL that cost me ton. Lesson learned. I have no problem bad mouthing them.

And I had a putter fitting by a guy in the Boston store that was great. He watched me, gave me some tips, ran me through the SAM, adjusted the loft of my putter a bit, told me I didn't need to buy a new, and charged me about $67 (was in the early winter, when their rates were lower). Going back to the same guy to see what he says about my irons. Not appropriate to rate a company with a bunch of facilities on a single incident--they don't all suck because of one lousy fitting and they're not all great just because I've found a really skilled, honest fitter. You have to do your homework, but they do have some strong people working there.

I have been to the Club Champion in Philadelphia many times, they always check the swing weight of the club I’m testing and then will add lead tape if necessary to get the club to match up with the current swing weight of my gamer. I’ve had great experiences with them.

Club Champion kicked my dog and stole my wife. YMMV.

> @gbartko said:

> Club Champion kicked my dog and stole my wife. YMMV.

there's an ex-wife joke in there somewhere, but damned if I'm going in after it...

fwiw, I've had good experiences at the local CC. Attentive fitting and while-I wait grip swaps on existing clubs. Ymmv.

> @gbartko said:

> Club Champion kicked my dog and stole my wife. YMMV.

I bought my dog and met my wife at a cc coincidence????

> @gbartko said:

> Club Champion kicked my dog and stole my wife. YMMV.

Yes they did!

I was given a $150 gift certificate to Club Champion. The only thing I felt they offered that was close to its monetary value was a re-grip of my irons. And they overcharged for that.

Club Champion can be a great experience if you go in prepared and well informed. After a similar experience, the second time I called ahead to Club Champion and asked if they had the exact shafts/specs I was looking to test on. They said no so I called True Spec and they did. Another time neither had what I was looking for and I ended up at a Titleist fitting day to hit the exact combo I wanted.

My recommendation is to do some homework/testing before you go to any custom fitter/fitting session and then call ahead to ask if they have what you're looking to hit. For example, I wanted to hit several clubs with Modus 105 and CC at the time didn't carry that shaft. My cynical guess is because that's such a common shaft, they don't want to fit you into a combo you can just go to retail and buy for the 1/2 the price.

All that said, the times I've been to CC or True Spec there's never been any high pressure situation. Maybe a little "used car sales" technique but they are selling golf clubs. My experience has been they've been like, "here, this is the best combo I can fit you into, it's really good. If you wan to buy this, here's the price. If not, thanks for coming in to get fit." As a long-time golfer, I'm thankful places like CC exist.

My only experience with CC was last year when I decided it was time for a new driver. My last fitting was a few years before so it was time for an upgrade. I live in the Metro Detroit area where we are fortunate to have access to two Top 100 shops that both offer Trackman 4 fitting hitting inside to out with Premium balls. I would have normally just went to one of them but I thought i'd checkout CC just to see what they could offer. Stopped in the New Royal Oak location and found out the mgr was a former fitter at one of the Top 100 shops. We talked about what I was looking for and being that we had a previous relationship we talked pricing. Subject was a Ping G400. He explained that price was $399.00 plus 6% tax. My response was why I'm only buying the head. His response was well the shaft is a $20.00 piece of junk so it really has no value. My response was you just said it was a $20.00 shaft so why isn't the head worth only $380? He laughed (he must have thought I was kidding). i asked what was the fitting cost and was any of the cost refundable towards the cost of the driver. Its $150.00 no value towards a purchase. Okay now on to shafts. In looking at thier selection you could assume their going to fit you into something in the $150 to $250 range. So now I'm adding the cost up in my head. Driver at $399.00, shaft at lets say $175.00, fitting cost $150.00. Total cost aprox $770.00.

And also I'm always dubious of being fit indoors and not being able to see actual ballflight.

In the end i went to one of the Top 100 shops that Ive dealt with in the past. I was able to hit every OEM I could think of. I was able to hit drivers at my preferred length of 44.5" with DRIVER shafts at my length. I was able to hit drivers with specific Hot Melt locations ( I was not aware at the time that Ping adds Hot Melt to every G400 head and you can specify where it is located). Hitting inside to out with Pro V1's. The driver was ordered and all specs were correct directly from Pings WRX Dept (I checked loft and sw myself and Hot Melt was placed correctly according to the Ping Build sheet. Price (with $65.00 refunded from the $125.00 fitting cost) was aprox $550.00. Whats the point you ask? IMHO CC seems to be way overpriced to a great majority of golfers. And I'm not sure how good they really are. I've dealt with a Top 100 clubfitter who is one of the best in the country. He's a meticullious as they come. Weighing dozens of grips to match weights and on and on. I KNOW his qualifications. My question to CC is WHO are these "Master Club Builders" That are sprinkling magic pixie dust on my clubs and charging $700 plus for drivers and $2000 and up for irons? IMHO unless you've got a lot of cash to burn for a dubious outcome you can do better elsewhere. There are better alternatives for a majority of golfers.

> @mjf34g said:

> I live in the Metro Detroit area where we are fortunate to have access to two Top 100 shops that both offer Trackman 4 fitting hitting inside to out with Premium balls.

What are these locations? I’m a couple hours out of Detroit but might be willing to drive to have access to this type of service.

Thanks

https://www.carlsgolfland.com/

https://www.milesofgolf.com/

I've used both. Last two at Carls. Now understand you'll be relying on OEM builds. I've had quite a few thru Ping and all have been within my specs. Mizuno recently same. Callaway close with TM the WORST by a mile.

If your looking for a high end build. I know someone who's one of the best. But once again $ for $ I really don't see value for the majority of players in paying that premium. YMMV

Fitting has become a mantra with no real way to tell who is good, and who is just a salesman. I had a top 100 fitting that resulted in the real world with a very expensive driver that was unplayable.

Not a good experience at all. Poor, actually.

Find me an outdoor demo day ANY day of the week!!!!

Go to an older master fitter, steer clear of price champion

> @mjf34g said:

> https://www.carlsgolfland.com/

> https://www.milesofgolf.com/

> I've used both. Last two at Carls. Now understand you'll be relying on OEM builds. I've had quite a few thru Ping and all have been within my specs. Mizuno recently same. Callaway close with TM the WORST by a mile.

> If your looking for a high end build. I know someone who's one of the best. But once again $ for $ I really don't see value for the majority of players in paying that premium. YMMV

Good to know. I didn’t know these guys were using premium balls in their fittings. That’s a major advantage.

Why is a high handicapper so picky about being a D0 swing weight? I’m sure there are other things in your game that need more attention than that.

I went to one in NJ and was happy with the service. Liked the product I bought and never felt pressured to buy anything. That was 3 years ago. I can still email or call the guy who fitted me and he willingly answers all the time.

I've had good experiences at the one in Willowbrook, IL. But as others have said, ymmv. What were you trying change or achieve with your fitting vs your previous gamer?

> @BB28403 said:

> Go to an older master fitter, steer clear of price champion

Love it! “Price Champion”. #sotrue

TXG, Club Champion, Tour Spec, and all those kind of places are going to be a similar price. The large OEM's don't let them order just heads, so you're always going to pay full price for the club, plus the price for the exotic shaft.

If you're only interested in the no upcharge shafts, tell the fitter before you schedule. They'll probably even be willing to order the clubs for you with the no upcharge option.

If they won't let you hit only the no upcharge shafts, or they don't carry a shaft you want, don't schedule.

> @arbeck said:

> TXG, Club Champion, Tour Spec, and all those kind of places are going to be a similar price. The large OEM's don't let them order just heads, so you're always going to pay full price for the club, plus the price for the exotic shaft.

>

> If you're only interested in the no upcharge shafts, tell the fitter before you schedule. They'll probably even be willing to order the clubs for you with the no upcharge option.

>

> If they won't let you hit only the no upcharge shafts, or they don't carry a shaft you want, don't schedule.

And this is pretty much it. The shafts cost OEMs literally nothing. The cost for a head with a shaft and without a shaft is the exact on my order sheet. I get it though, not everyone has $1000 to spend on a driver, but this is where communication is key. I don't walk into a Ford dealership with the intention of buying a baseline Focus and let the salesman show me nothing but souped up Mustangs. Sure, maybe try and show it to me, but right then and there I'm going to cut you off and say, I am looking to spend this, not that. I just don't get why Club Champion (and similar) get crapped on so much for their pricing when it's on their website what they do and why they do it. They aren't trying to hoodwink anyone. If I was in the market for an Epic Flash with a TPT, there's not a chance I'm finding that at a Golf Galaxy, and we all know that. In the same vein, if I am a 25 handicap that wants to get rid of my slice and has $400 to spend, I'm probably not thinking Club Champion as to where to go either. No disrespect to the OP, as this isn't pertinent to your specific experience but to use the car analogy again, you don't walk into a Ferrari dealership with the thought that you're walking out with a Honda. There has to be some sort of alignment of expectations vs. reality when going in somewhere that very clearly markets themselves as a business that deals with premium components. Neither are bad cars, and again neither are bad stores, you just have to be realistic with your expectations of the situation.

I should add...fitting studios should have zero issues with you wanting to stick with stock product. Just be upfront about it. I only get annoyed when someone tells me they want to see what works and then I show that something that clearly works significantly better and they just about fall over when I show them the price. If you are honest with me about price, I will be honest with what I have that could work. For example, I had someone this past weekend that had $1800 to spend, we got him some back stock Steelhead irons, a back stock RTX3 CB sand wedge, he kept his woods as nothing he hit was much better than his own, and we got him a driver with an upgraded shaft that got him 30 more yards and was much straighter. We communicated ahead of time by email, I explained what we do and why we do it, what to expect, and that was that. He left happy. On the flip side, on the rare occasion I do get someone coming in asking about getting a driver shaft for $100 or irons for $500, I am up front and tell them that this probably isn't the place to be. I will again tell them what we do and why we do it, I will show them the cheapest items I have. If they still want to go ahead with it and at the end are disappointed we didn't hit their budget, realistically that's not on me anymore. And the other thing to consider is, it's $100 to be fit + bare minimum $30 for me to glue it in your head, so they're $130 just walking in the door. Again, be upfront about what you want and expectations will align with what you are getting and you can assess if that is a business you want to support.

> @mjf34g said:

> My only experience with CC was last year when I decided it was time for a new driver. My last fitting was a few years before so it was time for an upgrade. I live in the Metro Detroit area where we are fortunate to have access to two Top 100 shops that both offer Trackman 4 fitting hitting inside to out with Premium balls. I would have normally just went to one of them but I thought i'd checkout CC just to see what they could offer. Stopped in the New Royal Oak location and found out the mgr was a former fitter at one of the Top 100 shops. We talked about what I was looking for and being that we had a previous relationship we talked pricing. Subject was a Ping G400. He explained that price was $399.00 plus 6% tax. My response was why I'm only buying the head. His response was well the shaft is a $20.00 piece of junk so it really has no value. My response was you just said it was a $20.00 shaft so why isn't the head worth only $380? He laughed (he must have thought I was kidding). i asked what was the fitting cost and was any of the cost refundable towards the cost of the driver. Its $150.00 no value towards a purchase. Okay now on to shafts. In looking at thier selection you could assume their going to fit you into something in the $150 to $250 range. So now I'm adding the cost up in my head. Driver at $399.00, shaft at lets say $175.00, fitting cost $150.00. Total cost aprox $770.00.

> And also I'm always dubious of being fit indoors and not being able to see actual ballflight.

> In the end i went to one of the Top 100 shops that Ive dealt with in the past. I was able to hit every OEM I could think of. I was able to hit drivers at my preferred length of 44.5" with DRIVER shafts at my length. I was able to hit drivers with specific Hot Melt locations ( I was not aware at the time that Ping adds Hot Melt to every G400 head and you can specify where it is located). Hitting inside to out with Pro V1's. The driver was ordered and all specs were correct directly from Pings WRX Dept (I checked loft and sw myself and Hot Melt was placed correctly according to the Ping Build sheet. Price (with $65.00 refunded from the $125.00 fitting cost) was aprox $550.00. Whats the point you ask? IMHO CC seems to be way overpriced to a great majority of golfers. And I'm not sure how good they really are. I've dealt with a Top 100 clubfitter who is one of the best in the country. He's a meticullious as they come. Weighing dozens of grips to match weights and on and on. I KNOW his qualifications. My question to CC is WHO are these "Master Club Builders" That are sprinkling magic pixie dust on my clubs and charging $700 plus for drivers and $2000 and up for irons? IMHO unless you've got a lot of cash to burn for a dubious outcome you can do better elsewhere. There are better alternatives for a majority of golfers.

Just for full transparency, never been to a CC. Just wanted to point out that not everyone has access to a Top 100 shop, and the value of a CC is being able to see a majority of golf equipment in one visit. It appears from numerous posts that they upcharge just about everything, so that's not ideal, but they are a business and do what they do.

I also wanted to note not all Top 100 shops are created equal, there is one close to me that I have gone to for a fitting and was disappointed. They had maybe a handful of shafts for the top 3-4 manufacturers, and while i got to hit outdoors, their launch monitor would only read 1oo4 balls i hit. And it was more a "here try this, now this, then this, you can go pay up front" type fitting, no conversation or discussion.

Moral of the story for me is, definitely do homework, set realistic expectations and don't be afraid to ask questions.

> @mjf34g said:

> https://www.carlsgolfland.com/

> https://www.milesofgolf.com/

> I've used both. Last two at Carls. Now understand you'll be relying on OEM builds. I've had quite a few thru Ping and all have been within my specs. Mizuno recently same. Callaway close with TM the WORST by a mile.

> If your looking for a high end build. I know someone who's one of the best. But once again $ for $ I really don't see value for the majority of players in paying that premium. YMMV

Which Carls did you go to? I'm looking for fittings and might be going into the Bloomfield location soon, but bc CC is right next door I was curious about them. Adam and Nick are definitely well known within the area, but reading your post, I'm keen on doing outside.

> @backhill said:

> > @mjf34g said:

> > https://www.carlsgolfland.com/

> > https://www.milesofgolf.com/

> > I've used both. Last two at Carls. Now understand you'll be relying on OEM builds. I've had quite a few thru Ping and all have been within my specs. Mizuno recently same. Callaway close with TM the WORST by a mile.

> > If your looking for a high end build. I know someone who's one of the best. But once again $ for $ I really don't see value for the majority of players in paying that premium. YMMV

>

> Which Carls did you go to? I'm looking for fittings and might be going into the Bloomfield location soon, but bc CC is right next door I was curious about them. Adam and Nick are definitely well known within the area, but reading your post, I'm keen on doing outside.

Ive been with both Ryan and Nick and while both are very good I preferred Nick just because our personalities are similar. I don't believe Adam (great guy who i deal with typically) is one of their Launch Lab Trackman Cert fitters. So obviuosly i'm talking about the West Bloomfield location as there is no Launch Lab facility in Plymouth. And yes I really believe that seeing actual ballflight is a huge bonus to both you and the fitter. I've seen too many fittings done on a monitor only that have ended horribly in the real world. A monitior is only a tool and one component to a good fitting. As in all fittings go in with a open mind and no brand loyalty bias. Good luck.

Thanks for the quick feedback. Adam/Nick are with CC, and I know they have a great reputation in the area prior to being with CC. They added a third guy who I'm less familiar with.

Regarding Bloomfield Carls, all of their staff is great. I've even had Carl Jr help me grab the wedge I wanted once :) But I mostly work with Ryan J over there. And Plymouth Carls, I go in and shoot the s*** with John every now and again. Great guy with a ton of knowledge.

> @"CAT GOLFER" said:

> > @mjf34g said:

> > My only experience with CC was last year when I decided it was time for a new driver. My last fitting was a few years before so it was time for an upgrade. I live in the Metro Detroit area where we are fortunate to have access to two Top 100 shops that both offer Trackman 4 fitting hitting inside to out with Premium balls. I would have normally just went to one of them but I thought i'd checkout CC just to see what they could offer. Stopped in the New Royal Oak location and found out the mgr was a former fitter at one of the Top 100 shops. We talked about what I was looking for and being that we had a previous relationship we talked pricing. Subject was a Ping G400. He explained that price was $399.00 plus 6% tax. My response was why I'm only buying the head. His response was well the shaft is a $20.00 piece of junk so it really has no value. My response was you just said it was a $20.00 shaft so why isn't the head worth only $380? He laughed (he must have thought I was kidding). i asked what was the fitting cost and was any of the cost refundable towards the cost of the driver. Its $150.00 no value towards a purchase. Okay now on to shafts. In looking at thier selection you could assume their going to fit you into something in the $150 to $250 range. So now I'm adding the cost up in my head. Driver at $399.00, shaft at lets say $175.00, fitting cost $150.00. Total cost aprox $770.00.

> > And also I'm always dubious of being fit indoors and not being able to see actual ballflight.

> > In the end i went to one of the Top 100 shops that Ive dealt with in the past. I was able to hit every OEM I could think of. I was able to hit drivers at my preferred length of 44.5" with DRIVER shafts at my length. I was able to hit drivers with specific Hot Melt locations ( I was not aware at the time that Ping adds Hot Melt to every G400 head and you can specify where it is located). Hitting inside to out with Pro V1's. The driver was ordered and all specs were correct directly from Pings WRX Dept (I checked loft and sw myself and Hot Melt was placed correctly according to the Ping Build sheet. Price (with $65.00 refunded from the $125.00 fitting cost) was aprox $550.00. Whats the point you ask? IMHO CC seems to be way overpriced to a great majority of golfers. And I'm not sure how good they really are. I've dealt with a Top 100 clubfitter who is one of the best in the country. He's a meticullious as they come. Weighing dozens of grips to match weights and on and on. I KNOW his qualifications. My question to CC is WHO are these "Master Club Builders" That are sprinkling magic pixie dust on my clubs and charging $700 plus for drivers and $2000 and up for irons? IMHO unless you've got a lot of cash to burn for a dubious outcome you can do better elsewhere. There are better alternatives for a majority of golfers.

> Just for full transparency, never been to a CC. Just wanted to point out that not everyone has access to a Top 100 shop, and the value of a CC is being able to see a majority of golf equipment in one visit. It appears from numerous posts that they upcharge just about everything, so that's not ideal, but they are a business and do what they do.

>

> I also wanted to note not all Top 100 shops are created equal, there is one close to me that I have gone to for a fitting and was disappointed. They had maybe a handful of shafts for the top 3-4 manufacturers, and while i got to hit outdoors, their launch monitor would only read 1oo4 balls i hit. And it was more a "here try this, now this, then this, you can go pay up front" type fitting, no conversation or discussion.

>

> Moral of the story for me is, definitely do homework, set realistic expectations and don't be afraid to ask questions.

Agreed and to your point one of the questions to ask is what type of monitor are they using? What are their qualications in using the equipment? Trackman and Foresight GCQuad probabaly the best. And in the case of your fitting? If I had seen that selection and seeing the monitor not preforming I would have walked out. A good fitter (if your serious about getting a good fit) is worth a few hour drive. Your spending your hard earned cash and should as you said do your due diligence ask questions, go in with an open mind.