I am in the process of moving from Ping G400s to i210s for similar reasons. I bought an i200 7 iron on eBay to play with. When going to the range, I find that I am usually very close to center strikes with the i200. I am a little more all over the map with G400s. The interesting thing is that the hitting surface of the irons are near identical in dimensions. The G400 is just longer on each side. I think I concentrate a bit more with the i200s. I took my G400 8 iron out of the bag and replaced it with the i200 7 iron. I haven’t miss-hit a shot yet. As a bonus the i200 tends to have much more consistent distance. So...through several rounds, I have the confidence to move to a smaller head. It sounds like you have similar confidence based on real world golfing, so I’d say go get fit again and find a smaller head that fits your swing.
I've noticed from random demo days, messing around on the simulator, etc. that the more forgiving the club, the more I tend to overswing and end up chunking it. The smaller the iron, I tend to force myself to what feels like a 3/4 swing and really hit down and accelerate through the ball better. 100% mental but I cannot get myself to not overswing a bigger iron.
These sort of queries pop up on discussion boards all the time, and I really don't think there's an answer - but a few points come to mind:
1) Everybody goes through a honeymoon period, where they're convinced their latest clubs are the best ever, and sooner or later revert to previous form.
2) To me there seems to be a bit of confusion regarding "players irons" as just blades, and lumping all cavity back irons as game improvement. There are plenty of CB irons that should be considered players irons, because of their more compact size (like PING i210 and Titleist AP2, etc), while there are a lot of other larger CB irons, including what some categorize as super game improvement.
3) If smaller clubfaces allowed the average golfer to hit better shots, then oversized 460cc drivers would have never become the norm, and we'd all be hitting old-school drivers the size of our 3-woods.
4) Not sure of your fitting process, which I would think ClubChampion was very good, but it was like I was telling my buddy who was itching to buy new clubs, "Don't buy because of the brand, don't buy because your buddy has them, don't buy them because your favorite player has them, don't buy them because you got a deal of them, and don't buy them because you were striping them today - and instead hit everything, hit every model, and then go back a few days later and hit them again. It's the only way to know what fits you and your swing."
5) If you hit any club on the sweetspot it's going to perform as intended - but whether it be game improvement or oversized clubheads, it's the forgiveness on mishits that are not penalized as highly as they are with blades or more compact sized clubheads. Any suggestion otherwise is hogwash. For example my local pro just got his new TS1 irons from Titleist to replace his long-used AP2s, and I was chatting with him on how he liked them (which he did) and his impression of them (which he said they were comparably very unforgiving on mishits, 10-15 yards short of target compared to 5 yards).
6) As more of the better know and higher skilled tour pros go to playing blades these sort of discussions come up more frequently, but if it was as easy as some people want to make us believe, then the overwhelming majority of tour players would not still be playing cavityback irons. ... I tend to look at it differently than some of the guys here, as I grew up playing blades (and was a fairly accomplished amateur golfer) but always struggled with my mid to long irons, and the day I demoed a set of cavity back irons on the course my common mishit went away - and just like most of the players on tour at the time (back in the day when there weren't any equipment contracts except for a few of the big names), I switched to CBs so fast it would make your head spin. Can I still hit my old blades when I dig them out for old times sake once a year? Sure. But do I want to exchange a sweetspot the size of my pinkynail compared to one of my thumbprint? Not a chance.
Good luck, and keep 'em in the shortgrass.
Every time I hit a shot with a proper golf club (read: blade/muscleback/"players blade"/NON game improvement) I learn something about golf. I might not get away with a miss hit, but I learn something. My lifelong golf experience is enhanced and I incorporate that learning into my golf knowledge base.
You cannot learn these lessons from the numb, blank, non-feedback clubs which many people play today.
Remember... They're not GAME improvement clubs. They're shot-outcome-forgiveness clubs.
I can't speak to "WHY" but I can relate by telling you I spent years "in search of the perfect club". One day a friend and I went out for 18 and decided to use his 1976 Titleist tour model bladed 1 iron for all of our drives. I had never hit a 1 iron or a blade and what happened was pure joy. Always hearing people talk about "how soft it feels to flush a forged blade" but never having felt that because I had always tried using different cast GI clubs. It was like magic. That was the day that got me to switch to blades. Cut to this year and I am debating going for a club champion fitting and I was wondering if I should push for blades or let them decide, which I am hesitant as hitting off of a mat is different and the soles seem to react different and I don't trust that. After talking to that friend again and hearing him say "all I know is that you hit a bladed 1 iron perfectly almost every time" and I was glad that he reminded me. I haven't got the fitting yet but when I do I will be pushing for forged blades at least up through the 5 or 6 iron. Side note: after using my Titleist 714 MBs for several years now when I try any GI clubs they just look huge and cumbersome.
@Captain-Black you may have just fixed my game!
As someone who has a super strong grip and a nasty hook as a common miss, I've spent hours in lessons (and a fitting) trying to fix that hook.
Your theory on offset may clear up why my hook was almost non-existent when playing with my buddies zforged set. I was incredibly perplexed but this makes sense considering the offset difference.
While I wasn't killing it with the blades, I was able to stop 'playing my miss'.
That is a something that I've thought about. I'm planning on continuing to play with my buddies Mizunos and see in time if the switch is warranted.
Thank you for the detailed insight. I'm trying to stay mindful of reality and not get sucked into the whole I want them just because I want them mindset. I'm certainly going to keep using my buddies blades on the course and really take the time to decide if they are something I should look into. I am by no means a great golfer, and like you said some of the best on the PGA don't even bother with blades so why would a mere mortal like myself use them over a CB.
I never really considered playing muscle backs until Mizuno put out that pornographic promo of the MP-18 with Faldo. 8 seconds in I knew I must have them. Cost me my life savings...worth it.
Point being, I bagged them for their beauty which in turn made want want to hit balls whenever I saw my bag which in turn led to developing a better move. Also thanks to George G. of course.
So now I hit blades better than game improvement clubs. LOL
Reading that gives me hope lol
Am I understanding you right ?
You KNOW you have a "super strong grip" and you're blaming ~ 10 millimeters of offset for your "nasty hook" ???
I just LOVE this place !!!
I'm a new golfer ( I played at least once a week over past 3 months) and I played rocketbladez (2 rounds per year over past 5 years) and consistently scored in the 60s or more over 9 holes. I switched to MP33 when I started to play more and I am consistently in the high 40s(score even lower a few times). It would be lower if I was better with my driver but pride won't let me keep to t in the bag and I haven't had a lesson yet (coming next month)
Caveats are that I am obviously playing a lot more so there is that and last year this time with my rocketbladez I was missing the ball entirely and shanking shots so there was not enough talent there for it to matter at all. The smaller head makes me feel like the swing has to be more precise and I like the immediate feedback as I am learning how the ball reacts to differebt face positions. Also they just look way more attractive and I feel confident at approach. It is all in my head I know but after trying to go back to chunky CB irons it feels weird. Every shot feels good even the mishits and the distance is a much further (graphite shafts).
Where blades suck for me is in the middle of the fairway with an approach shot and I mishit and miss the green way short. Well worth it despite that caveat. Do what feels right. No rule that you have to have one set.
I also have to second the gentleman above who mentioned mishits. There will be perfectly positioned approach shots that you catch wrong and leave way short and they were otherwise going to be spot on with a GI. Presumably it happens less as you improve but it still hurts when it happens. In my case you practically lose a stroke. Im still new to the game but I don't think this point can be refuted unless you hit it perfect every time.
I'm not trying to put food on the table with my clubs though. What pros do has absolutely nothing to do with 99.999999 % of us here.
As someone who is all over the planet with playing different irons there are many good points here. I have gone back to blades after playing different G series Pings the last few years. I'm going to post why I did it which means nothing to anyone else here but me.
They look ******* awesome.
Because I want to.
I don't play courses over 6000 yards anymore.
I play hybrids down to 27 degrees.
I rarely play for money
1/2 & 3/4 shots are without question much more consistent with blades. (for me anyway)
Did I say they look ******* awesome?
I think it's mostly mental. See small head down by ball, must make a good swing. Maintain spine angle.
See large head down by ball, lose some concentration.
Exception, raised front edge. I need the front edge flush on the ground and little offset in my wedges and 9 iron.
I'd rather have my slight mishit land on the green than learn something about golf. You wouldn't believe how low and on the toe I can hit on my G400s and not lose any distance and be putting for birdie. What's not to love?
I'm not "blaming" the offset, but noticed it wasn't nearly as pronounced (or often) when using the blades-- perhaps because of the offset.
Was I being hyberbolic, sure. But slow your roll, guy.
I personally believe in order to get yourself going in the game, game improvement irons are the best route to begin with. In order to get good at something, golf in this case, you have to have confidence in what you're swinging and when a beginner is out there swinging butter knives, they're most likely not going to be confident at all. I was always of the school of thought, if I learn to hit the cavity backs that I was playing, then it was time for a more player iron set. That's the way I try to steer all of my golfers also.
My golf career took me in the opposite direction. Started with blades. Now playing shovels. Never hit the ball better.
I'm still trying to stop my eye from twitching after reading the bit about a super-strong grip that hours of lessons never identified his nasty hook. 😜
Went from ping g700 with graphite regular shafts to ping i200 with graphite regular shafts and my git’s have gone up by 2 greens per round.
You said "As someone who has a super strong grip and a nasty hook as a common miss, I've spent hours in lessons (and a fitting) trying to fix that hook. Your theory on offset may clear up why my hook was almost non-existent when playing with my buddies zforged set. I was incredibly perplexed but this makes sense considering the offset difference.
So your nasty hook became almost non-existent with a clubhead design that curves MORE than a more forgiving clubhead,,,,,,,,,, because of a few millimeters of offset ? And that "makes sense" to you ?
Ahhhhhh,,,,,, you were entertaining us with hyperbole,,,,,,,,, Who knew ?
If what you say is true, which I have no reason to think it is not, the problem is that club champion didn't do a very good job at your fitting.
Strange, isn't it ? You'd think an instructor would identify something like that pretty quickly.
Just a few days ago, just before Christmas, at my local PGATSS, I was watching a big strong guy, maybe mid-30s test a driver into a sim. He was athletic and was whacking it pretty well but had a nasty hook.
After watching him for a little while I noticed he not only started with a very strong grip but just before he pulled the trigger, maybe as a sort of a trigger in itself, he turned his right hand (he was righty) even a touch stronger.
I got him to weaken his grip just a bit and not "choke" the club.
As long as the fit is the same I hit GI same as players clubs, but you'll have to define players clubs to me ..... I've never played a set of blades, so if blades = players clubs then I've only made test clubs (Maltby MMB come to mind). Far more important to me is the sole design, having enough bounce and some leading edge relief , whether it be GI or players! That being said I tend to like GI as I mishit slightly, and more than slightly just enough to want all the help I can get.
Too many apples to oranges comparisons going on....i.e. all else is not equal with these anecdotal accounts!
I can tell where I hit it on GI/sgi irons everytime, center face or mishit, even on slight mishits. The feedback is there .... I will agree that there is more feedback on lesser forgiving clubs, but I don't need more feedback.
My ball striking does not magically improve if I go to a players club....same vice versa re GI!
These threads = lol, SMH, 🤮
If your b as ll striking is somewhat suspect (8-10 greens per round) and your miss is generally Tory and sometimes fat, does playing blades make sense?
I think either the Srixon z785 or the TM P790 seem to make the most sense.
I F'ed around for years playing "what amateurs should play" and then dumped that reasoning down a well. The smaller the head, the better off I am.
This thread could not have appeared at the perfect time.
i’m currently a 20 handicap as I just started playing golf this year back in February. I’m gaming some Ping i3+ irons that were hand me downs and I’m looking at upgrade to a new iron set.
a month ago I went to Golftec for a fitting and I tried GI irons and wound up getting fit into the KBS C Taper Lite with either the JPX 919 Tour or P760 iron heads.
im thinking of going Titliest T100 or T200 with the KBS C Taper Shaft but I’m confused as to which will help in the long run as I continue to golf. Chose the T100 and understand I don’t have as much forgiveness or get the T200 rocket launcher irons.
Well....my advice would be go for the irons you got fit for. You were fit for Mizuno or Taylormade, now why in the heck do you want Titleist with a shaft that is completely different in weight, spin, bend profile, and stiffness? If they don't work then you'll likely be b** that you were ill fit. The 760 with the CTL would be the slightly more forgiving model if you are interested in protecting yourself a little bit.
Driver -- empty
PXG 0341 13.5* - HZRDUS T1100 75
Rogue SZ 18* - Veylix Arcane 70
Titleist 917F2 21* - Diamana Thump 85
New Level 1031 5-PW - Accra 110i
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 58ES - Accra 123i
Bettinardi or Scotty
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