I CANT CHIP!!!!!!!! Please help with basics

[BeTheBall_]

I know the discussion is about chips and not pitches, but the basic movemnet is the same. Below is an excerpt from my new short game video.

 

[WILDTHING]

I know the discussion is about chips and not pitches, but the basic movemnet is the same. Below is an excerpt from my new short game video. It illustrates how a soft pitch works the same as a high soft toss.

 

If you tossed a ball the same way I illustrate as a low running shot, the same similarity to how you would move in a chip would be revealed. A shorter, faster version of what I do at 40 second mark.

 

 

 

This is really good Monte and I'll give it a go . Your recommendations sort of tallies with the success I had when experimenting with different techniques in my earlier post (see excerpt below where option 4 worked out the best). But isn't there a danger that you will start getting too pistonlike with that right arm (ie. hitting) rather than swinging? Maybe that's why I still had a few heel strikes , dipping the right shoulder and sort of forcing the right arm through rather than allowing it to 'paddle' and swing through. I think there is a significant difference in 'skipping a stone' vs 'underarm throwing a ball' action. I tend to replicate a 'skipping a stone' and that for me is a more forceful piston/hitting type action .

 

---------------------------

 

1. Shawn Clements (see this you tube video) -

 

2. Pendulum wide type swing as per suggestion from 'royourboat' above.

 

3. Gary Pinns -

 

4. TGM - Right arm swinging pitch - reactive pivot (right arm start downswing- pivot responds to movement of arms) - a miniature version of my full swing.

 

5. Phil M's - Hinge and hold-

 

6. Leadbetter - Regular Chip -Body Turn -

 

7. Left hand very strong grip - (no PA3 - just PA4 and PA2 - meaning no left forearm rotation )- similar to this video but I think I did it wrong and also cocked my left wrist while also using the shoulders -

 

8. Rick Shields pitching action -

 

I don't know how to attach a scanned .jpeg document but the results show :

 

Point 4 above : TGM right arm swinging pitch has a better distribution of strikes closer to the sweetspot although still too many near the heel.

Point 3 - Gary Pinns still had a few shanks (coming down too steep - probably OTT) and most strikes closer to heel - but distance control pretty good

Point 1 and 2 - almost identical impact distribution but again mostly near the heel

 

Point 5,6,7,8 - too many shanks .

--------------------------------------------------

[MonteScheinblum]

I know the discussion is about chips and not pitches, but the basic movemnet is the same. Below is an excerpt from my new short game video. It illustrates how a soft pitch works the same as a high soft toss.

 

If you tossed a ball the same way I illustrate as a low running shot, the same similarity to how you would move in a chip would be revealed. A shorter, faster version of what I do at 40 second mark.

 

 

 

This is really good Monte and I'll give it a go . Your recommendations sort of tallies with the success I had when experimenting with different techniques in my earlier post (see excerpt below where option 4 worked out the best). But isn't there a danger that you will start getting too pistonlike with that right arm (ie. hitting) rather than swinging? Maybe that's why I still had a few heel strikes , dipping the right shoulder and sort of forcing the right arm through rather than allowing it to 'paddle' and swing through. I think there is a significant difference in 'skipping a stone' vs 'underarm throwing a ball' action. I tend to replicate a 'skipping a stone' and that for me is a more forceful piston/hitting type action .

 

---------------------------

 

1. Shawn Clements (see this you tube video) -

 

2. Pendulum wide type swing as per suggestion from 'royourboat' above.

 

3. Gary Pinns -

 

4. TGM - Right arm swinging pitch - reactive pivot (right arm start downswing- pivot responds to movement of arms) - a miniature version of my full swing.

 

5. Phil M's - Hinge and hold-

 

6. Leadbetter - Regular Chip -Body Turn -

 

7. Left hand very strong grip - (no PA3 - just PA4 and PA2 - meaning no left forearm rotation )- similar to this video but I think I did it wrong and also cocked my left wrist while also using the shoulders -

 

8. Rick Shields pitching action -

 

I don't know how to attach a scanned .jpeg document but the results show :

 

Point 4 above : TGM right arm swinging pitch has a better distribution of strikes closer to the sweetspot although still too many near the heel.

Point 3 - Gary Pinns still had a few shanks (coming down too steep - probably OTT) and most strikes closer to heel - but distance control pretty good

Point 1 and 2 - almost identical impact distribution but again mostly near the heel

 

Point 5,6,7,8 - too many shanks .

--------------------------------------------------

 

Hit shots with right arm only and your concerns will be diminished.

[WILDTHING]

Will do so - many thanks again.

[finleysg]

Ball back in the stance is the way I played short shots most of my life, but too many times I would still dig (or worse, blade it) under pressure. Just to totally mess with my mind, I've decided to learn the short games style as taught by James Sieckmann (https://www.amazon.com/Your-Short-Game-Solution-Mastering/dp/1592409067). This is very different from how I've played for 40+ years, but after about a month of fairly diligent work, it's starting to feel pretty good, and the results are encouraging, especially out of the bunker.

 

It ultimately comes down to making consistently good contact. Whatever works for you to do that will likely translate to success on the course. I have found that moving my energy forward, and moving the bottom of my swing forward, is more consistent across a wide variety of shots: low runners to high sacks of potatoes. Using the same fundamentals for all finesse shots around the green is appealing.

[Tim Schoch]

Whatever you do, you need to change your swing and the bad habits associated with it. Nothing is a quick fix. As most of have said, it takes choosing something that you understand and feels natural and practicing like crazy with serious goals.

[Bingo1976]

Ball back in the stance is the way I played short shots most of my life, but too many times I would still dig (or worse, blade it) under pressure. Just to totally mess with my mind, I've decided to learn the short games style as taught by James Sieckmann (https://www.amazon.com/Your-Short-Game-Solution-Mastering/dp/1592409067). This is very different from how I've played for 40+ years, but after about a month of fairly diligent work, it's starting to feel pretty good, and the results are encouraging, especially out of the bunker.

 

It ultimately comes down to making consistently good contact. Whatever works for you to do that will likely translate to success on the course. I have found that moving my energy forward, and moving the bottom of my swing forward, is more consistent across a wide variety of shots: low runners to high sacks of potatoes. Using the same fundamentals for all finesse shots around the green is appealing.

 

Ball back hands ahead just destroys your wedge game.

[nsxguy]

Ball back in the stance is the way I played short shots most of my life, but too many times I would still dig (or worse, blade it) under pressure. Just to totally mess with my mind, I've decided to learn the short games style as taught by James Sieckmann (https://www.amazon.c...g/dp/1592409067). This is very different from how I've played for 40+ years, but after about a month of fairly diligent work, it's starting to feel pretty good, and the results are encouraging, especially out of the bunker.

 

It ultimately comes down to making consistently good contact. Whatever works for you to do that will likely translate to success on the course. I have found that moving my energy forward, and moving the bottom of my swing forward, is more consistent across a wide variety of shots: low runners to high sacks of potatoes. Using the same fundamentals for all finesse shots around the green is appealing.

 

Ball back hands ahead just destroys your wedge game.

 

Sure beats ball forward, hands back,,,,,,,,,,,,

[pmcuk]

Whatever you do, you need to change your swing and the bad habits associated with it. Nothing is a quick fix. As most of have said, it takes choosing something that you understand and feels natural and practicing like crazy with serious goals.

 

When did the golf swing ever feel natural???

[WILDTHING]

I thought I'd exhausted all the different chipping/pitching techniques but here is another (wrist c0ck is your friend);

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3ssOhoCd3o

 

And another on how to improve your chipping consistency using this drill below.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26h9uMrWgLw

 

The last video above seems to be the same technique as Gary Pinns magic move.

 

PS. maybe the last video is for chipping on a good lie just off the green rather than the wrist c0ck method which is from various lies.

[WILDTHING]

Monte

 

I've just seen your video below and I understand what you mean't by 'you don't want to fight the inertia of the golf club'. I suspect this applies to chipping and short pitches too?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELnk6TUU4a4

 

But don't we create inertia as a secondary effect by our own movement such as transition where we are moving our hands in a different direction to the COG of the club? If you've created that inertial feel (clubshaft lag) through your fingers and hands, and those pressure forces are started in the wrong direction (ie. off an optimal plane for instance), not fighting inertia doesn't mean that you are going to get consistent contact with the ball . It might be the correct way to swing but other factors will need to be perfected first. Imho , there is no easy way but to strive and continually feel the correct pressure forces at the right time and in the correct direction throughout transition/downswing. An obvious thing to say, not easy to do and probably something a recreational golfer will never ever master without dedicated effort.

 

But maybe doing tasks like throwing a club like 'Fred Shoemaker' advocated , or right underarm throwing a ball , left hand backhand frisbee throw , educating our hands like Henry Cotton suggested or using analogies and sporting moves we may have done in our youth is a good way to capture that 'not fight inertia' feel. Maybe Shawn Clement's golf swing philosophy is moving towards the correct direction.

[Tanner25]

WildThing, Since, it looks like you are willing to try anything and I don't blame you. Try stuffing your lead shirt sleeve into your armpit. It prevents a disconnected takeaway. I haven't tried it on the course. But, so far so good in practice.

[macdubh]

I spent 4 hours doing 40 yard pitches at a local short game centre today and used impact tape to record my results . I tried a whole different styles such as:

 

1. Shawn Clements (see this you tube video) -

 

2. Pendulum wide type swing as per suggestion from 'royourboat' above.

 

3. Gary Pinns -

 

4. TGM - Right arm swinging pitch - reactive pivot (right arm start downswing- pivot responds to movement of arms) - a miniature version of my full swing.

 

5. Phil M's - Hinge and hold-

 

6. Leadbetter - Regular Chip -Body Turn -

 

7. Left hand very strong grip - (no PA3 - just PA4 and PA2 - meaning no left forearm rotation )- similar to this video but I think I did it wrong and also cocked my left wrist while also using the shoulders -

 

8. Rick Shields pitching action -

 

I don't know how to attach a scanned .jpeg document but the results show :

 

Point 4 above : TGM right arm swinging pitch has a better distribution of strikes closer to the sweetspot although still too many near the heel.

Point 3 - Gary Pinns still had a few shanks (coming down too steep - probably OTT) and most strikes closer to heel - but distance control pretty good

Point 1 and 2 - almost identical impact distribution but again mostly near the heel

 

Point 5,6,7,8 - too many shanks .

 

It seems that the pitching technique that suits my body better are the ones which do not involve a body controlled type swing (upper arms connected to my pecs). Any type of 'active pivot' using the legs or a shoulder motion starting the downswing causes me to have an OTT club path. The exception being Gary Pinns technique which is a bit strange. The difference in Pinns technique is that the torso has already turned against the connected upper left am at address , then the arms just move up in the backswing (no further body turn and no wrist break). Its almost an increase in X-FACTOR, then the upper body just turns through pulling the arms through the ball. Not sure whether the setup has an influence in stopping an OTT move in the downswing but I still had a few shanks but not as many as the other 'arms connected' styles.

 

Basically , my spine and hips are too inflexible to do a body controlled short pitching or long chipping action.

 

PS. Was searching around on You Tube to sort of explain point 4 TGM right arm swinging pitching technique and the below is the closest I could find. My right arm is releasing the left arm and my body is responding not leading (the sequence almost happening together to be honest). It also seems to explain why Gary Pinns method also worked for me (zero pivot).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWupt6lud3w

 

I have tried all of these over the past few years but recently tried #7 again and it was gold for me --- I really can't flip it and it takes away a lot of moving parts which for me tend to break down under pressure. I did a round on the course after a session on the chipping green and didn't hit even one that wasn't solid. For me that is incredible. Take home was --- you never know what will work well even if it seems a little odd at first blush. I don't think I would ever want to try that method for my full swing but for chipping it seems to fit well for me.

[Tanner25]

I know it was previously posted. But, this Pelz chip for the short ones REALLY helped me today. Try it!

 

[RBImGuy]

A follow up to RBImGuy's comment about "stop adding grip pressure" to my chips to stop hitting fat. I had a minor breakthrough.

 

I worked through getting my stance and ball position correct and synced up with the bottom of my arc. But my chips and pitches I was still hitting fat--and off the toe too. That off the toe revelation was the key to (fingers crossed) helping myself. I was coming harder with the right hand on the downswing, turning the club open and pulling it in in the process and toeing the ball. So what do I do about that?

 

I'm 67 and I just don't have time to re-train my right hand. I've been a right-handed athlete all my life, you can't teach old hands new tricks. So I fought fire with fire. I gripped the club with my left hand much harder, keeping the angle and leading with the back of my left hand, back and through. Bingo. 80% of the shots are not fat and are straight and true right off the middle of the clubface. When my mind wanders, my right hand takes advantage and I hit it fat.

 

With this left hand firm grip, I've practiced high, low, short and long shots and it all is coming together. I figure if I ingrain this new approach, both hands will consider it normal and stop showing off and work together. We'll see.

 

for Amateurs thats a common issue, its ingrained so much its normal to add grip pressure (you dont event think about it)

once bad habits are formed it take an effort to start establishing a new reference.

hit fat normally is connected to (oh I am hitting it to far)

hit thin is connected to (oh I am hitting it to short)

learning to relax trough can take some time.

 

did a small chipping video for such troubles.

 

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[Tim Schoch]

A follow up to RBImGuy's comment about "stop adding grip pressure" to my chips to stop hitting fat. I had a minor breakthrough.

 

I worked through getting my stance and ball position correct and synced up with the bottom of my arc. But my chips and pitches I was still hitting fat--and off the toe too. That off the toe revelation was the key to (fingers crossed) helping myself. I was coming harder with the right hand on the downswing, turning the club open and pulling it in in the process and toeing the ball. So what do I do about that?

 

I'm 67 and I just don't have time to re-train my right hand. I've been a right-handed athlete all my life, you can't teach old hands new tricks. So I fought fire with fire. I gripped the club with my left hand much harder, keeping the angle and leading with the back of my left hand, back and through. Bingo. 80% of the shots are not fat and are straight and true right off the middle of the clubface. When my mind wanders, my right hand takes advantage and I hit it fat.

 

With this left hand firm grip, I've practiced high, low, short and long shots and it all is coming together. I figure if I ingrain this new approach, both hands will consider it normal and stop showing off and work together. We'll see.

 

for Amateurs thats a common issue, its ingrained so much its normal to add grip pressure (you dont event think about it)

once bad habits are formed it take an effort to start establishing a new reference.

hit fat normally is connected to (oh I am hitting it to far)

hit thin is connected to (oh I am hitting it to short)

learning to relax trough can take some time.

 

did a small chipping video for such troubles.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Very instructive and amusing video. Thanks very much!

[Swisstrader98]

For Chipping:

 

I use minimal wrist c0ck, just a putting motion with my shoulders with hands ahead of the ball. What I found was that I could nail every practise chip, but flub them on the course, so now I take a couple of practise chips and then address (including a quick glance at my landing spot) and hit the ball almost in one go. It doesn't give me any time to get nervous and seems to work so far. Assuming the OP has good fundamentals than this may help.

 

For Pitching:

 

I have been going through hell recently (mainly laying sod over the ball, and an amazing lack of accuracy that shames me as a single digit handicapper). Finally bit the bullet and paid up for a lesson. My coach is a proponent of the method taught by James Sieckmann and Stan Uttley. I like it because it doesn't feel like a shorter version of a longer swing. In summary:

 

Don't go down the grip. Totally relax the hands. To initiate the backswing, feel like your right elbow is riding up your side, and keep it close to your side. Use no active wrist hinge, and let the body rotation set the club. On the downswing, use no leg motion at all, and simply return the club on the same path, and do not try and use any forward press (see the video link below). The follow through should feel 'left', almost like you are hooking it. You can practice this technique with a towel under both armpits. It's totally transformed my wedge game. This works up to about 100 yards out.

 

http://www.golf.com/video/new-way-hit-wedge-shots-james-sieckmann

 

Might just be me but I don't get how that's such a shocking and new way to hit wedge shots.

[Tim Schoch]

I guess what is logical and natural to some, is not to others. Hands ahead/ball back makes no logical sense to me. You're hitting the ball behind the low point in your chip, especially if you follow the other mantra of weight forward. I mean, why not take a normal stance and use an 8-iron?

 

Anyway, whatever works, do it. I used the Hank Haney method of identifying my big miss, then tracking it back to what I am doing to correct my swing. Right hand grip pressure was my biggest problem, and there were others.

 

I didn't consider my problem of hitting it fat a big miss. I didn't consider it a swing at all. I needed a consistent swing before I could analyze ball flight. Once I had a pretty consistent swing, I worked on the flight of the ball, which I'm still doing.

 

I did something else too. I played through a couple of instructor videos on You Tube and recorded them with my cellphone and the V1 app, then replayed them in slow motion to see if the instructors were doing what they said they were doing. Not so much. I saw a lot of back hand action through the ball.

[nick.woods76]

i started this thread a year and a half ago - I still can't chip

[SEP1006]

i started this thread a year and a half ago - I still can't chip

 

 

That's funny, not that you still can't chip but your comment.

 

Anyway just curious, I responded on this thread earlier about going cross-handed. Have you tried it??

 

My short game is better than it has ever been and I have all the confidence in the world since doing this.

[skraly]

i started this thread a year and a half ago - I still can't chip

 

 

That's funny, not that you still can't chip but your comment.

 

Anyway just curious, I responded on this thread earlier about going cross-handed. Have you tried it??

 

My short game is better than it has ever been and I have all the confidence in the world since doing this.

I seem to remember that Craig Perks won the tour championship at Eastlake one year chipping crosshanded. I’ve never felt the need to try that myself but certainly worth a try.

[flog2]

i started this thread a year and a half ago - I still can't chip

me neither...until I watched a video of Patrick Reids simple philosophy on chipping.....now the fun is back and I am trying to hole it instead of just praying I dont fat or thin it

[Conjohnson]

First, its always good to know what the differences are between a pitch and a chip and when to play one or the other.

 

Chip:

More ground time-less air time

Wight left, 70%- feet close together

Ball played slightly back in stance and close to body, shaft more upright

Hands slightly ahead of club, left hand dominant

Make sure you have a solid left wrist through the shot and the grip stays in front of the club

 

Pitch:

More air time- less roll

Weights 60% left- with a narrow stance

Ball position is center, but varies for different shots

Early wrist hinge on backswing, but no weight should be transferred back

Flat left wrist at impact.

[Tim Schoch]

I know the discussion is about chips and not pitches, but the basic movemnet is the same. Below is an excerpt from my new short game video. It illustrates how a soft pitch works the same as a high soft toss.

 

If you tossed a ball the same way I illustrate as a low running shot, the same similarity to how you would move in a chip would be revealed. A shorter, faster version of what I do at 40 second mark.

 

 

 

This is really good Monte and I'll give it a go . Your recommendations sort of tallies with the success I had when experimenting with different techniques in my earlier post (see excerpt below where option 4 worked out the best). But isn't there a danger that you will start getting too pistonlike with that right arm (ie. hitting) rather than swinging? Maybe that's why I still had a few heel strikes , dipping the right shoulder and sort of forcing the right arm through rather than allowing it to 'paddle' and swing through. I think there is a significant difference in 'skipping a stone' vs 'underarm throwing a ball' action. I tend to replicate a 'skipping a stone' and that for me is a more forceful piston/hitting type action .

 

---------------------------

 

1. Shawn Clements (see this you tube video) -

 

2. Pendulum wide type swing as per suggestion from 'royourboat' above.

 

3. Gary Pinns -

 

4. TGM - Right arm swinging pitch - reactive pivot (right arm start downswing- pivot responds to movement of arms) - a miniature version of my full swing.

 

5. Phil M's - Hinge and hold-

 

6. Leadbetter - Regular Chip -Body Turn -

 

7. Left hand very strong grip - (no PA3 - just PA4 and PA2 - meaning no left forearm rotation )- similar to this video but I think I did it wrong and also cocked my left wrist while also using the shoulders -

 

8. Rick Shields pitching action -

 

I don't know how to attach a scanned .jpeg document but the results show :

 

Point 4 above : TGM right arm swinging pitch has a better distribution of strikes closer to the sweetspot although still too many near the heel.

Point 3 - Gary Pinns still had a few shanks (coming down too steep - probably OTT) and most strikes closer to heel - but distance control pretty good

Point 1 and 2 - almost identical impact distribution but again mostly near the heel

 

Point 5,6,7,8 - too many shanks .

--------------------------------------------------

 

Great links. Lots missing. Utley's approach makes sense to me as a swing that you don't have to force.

[thug the bunny]

First, its always good to know what the differences are between a pitch and a chip and when to play one or the other.

 

Chip:

More ground time-less air time

Wight left, 70%- feet close together

Ball played slightly back in stance and close to body, shaft more upright

Hands slightly ahead of club, left hand dominant

Make sure you have a solid left wrist through the shot and the grip stays in front of the club

 

Pitch:

More air time- less roll

Weights 60% left- with a narrow stance

Ball position is center, but varies for different shots

Early wrist hinge on backswing, but no weight should be transferred back

Flat left wrist at impact.

 

Those are both chips to me. You can hit about 8 different kinds of chips.

[longballwhackerguy]

I have had dry spells chipping as well, and whenever I do I come back to my trusted method. Im sure its covered on this site and instructional videos on youtube, but the key is maintaining the "triangle". When you set up chipping your arms and shoulder line should form a nice triangle at address. If you set up slightly open, with your shoulders parallel left of the target line, grip the club more in the palms (to avoid the wrist hinge, unless your pitching), with the weight 60-40 front foot, and just try to maintain that "triangle" throughout the shot, you shouldn't have any contact issues and the rest is practice/feel. As far as 50-60 wedge shots go, would probably need some more information or a video to diagnose. Hope this helps.

[nsxguy]

First, its always good to know what the differences are between a pitch and a chip and when to play one or the other.

 

Chip:

More ground time-less air time

Wight left, 70%- feet close together

Ball played slightly back in stance and close to body, shaft more upright

Hands slightly ahead of club, left hand dominant

Make sure you have a solid left wrist through the shot and the grip stays in front of the club

 

Pitch:

More air time- less roll

Weights 60% left- with a narrow stance

Ball position is center, but varies for different shots

Early wrist hinge on backswing, but no weight should be transferred back

Flat left wrist at impact.

 

Those are both chips to me. You can hit about 8 different kinds of chips.

 

Those are both "short game" shots to me. But, to me "chips" seldom go more than 3 or 4 feet in the air; anything higher than that I would consider a pitch. YMMV.

[nitram]

i started this thread a year and a half ago - I still can't chip

 

PM Sent

[thug the bunny]

First, its always good to know what the differences are between a pitch and a chip and when to play one or the other.

 

Chip:

More ground time-less air time

Wight left, 70%- feet close together

Ball played slightly back in stance and close to body, shaft more upright

Hands slightly ahead of club, left hand dominant

Make sure you have a solid left wrist through the shot and the grip stays in front of the club

 

Pitch:

More air time- less roll

Weights 60% left- with a narrow stance

Ball position is center, but varies for different shots

Early wrist hinge on backswing, but no weight should be transferred back

Flat left wrist at impact.

 

Those are both chips to me. You can hit about 8 different kinds of chips.

 

Those are both "short game" shots to me. But, to me "chips" seldom go more than 3 or 4 feet in the air; anything higher than that I would consider a pitch. YMMV.

 

Semantics I guess. If I'm 5 yds off the green and enough green to work with using a 56* I could either put it back in the stance and keep the hands ahead and hit a lower shot or put it up in the stance and hit a soft dead hands floater, or anything in between. To me it's all just short game. I never understood why we have to take all the possible different short game shots and jam them into two categories...

[tigerfan23]

i suffered the chipping yips all of 2016 and 1/2 of 2017..

 

One Day I holed a chip for the first time in 5 years and now I can chip with the best of them. I use my 52 for everything. Ball in back shaft up and down hands slightly ahead - As long as I TURN MY ENTIRE UPPER Body I can chip great. When I get handys, armys, .... I decel and I'm dead