Phil's Gambling Debts

[denw2o]

Also, John Daly was on The Pat McAfee Show (barstool sports) this week and talked about his gambling, sounded like all time he's down about $42M. Great interview for anyone who's a JD fan, he did the call during a practice round which was also cool.

 

Did John Daly accumulate that much money to begin with? I mean he's won 2 majors and some stuff, but that's a huge amount for a middling sort of player

[tw68ca]

Some interesting comments here. His own business but

1. When they quoted his $48M income, I read that as gross......after taxes, expenses (jets etc), his net is a lot lower. Meaning that $1M+ is not just couch change

2. The guy definitely has a problem. If he is in to one fellow for over $1M (and that is just one snapshot in time), you think he isn't also laying wagers elsewhere?

3. The house always wins (yes, I know Mr Walters is not a casino, but pretty sure the odds are stacked in his favour, like with any bookie)

4. Could there be worse timing for all this? And did he actually think this would just quietly go away? I had been bullish on his chances next week, but this distraction can't help.

5. See #2

And how would one know that he has not won a pile elsewhere. You saying the guy "definitely has a problem" is your opinion and nothing more.

 

Re winning a pile elsewhere - see point 3.

Re "my opinion" - correct. See the first line of my post - it's his own business. But would be sad to see this escalate much further. Seems he narrowly dodged some fairly significant legal consequences on this insider trading deal. Which it is now confirmed are directly related to a gambling debt.....

[jmck]

I get the feeling some of the posters here have lived a sheltered life when it comes to seeing addiction (of any kind) up close.

 

As to the OP's question: There is no number you can put on it as a threshold where on one side it's okay and on another side it's not okay. Someone could spend a larger % than Phil and not have a problem, just as easily as someone could spend a smaller % than Phil and have a problem.

[Ayoung19]

Also, John Daly was on The Pat McAfee Show (barstool sports) this week and talked about his gambling, sounded like all time he's down about $42M. Great interview for anyone who's a JD fan, he did the call during a practice round which was also cool.

 

Did John Daly accumulate that much money to begin with? I mean he's won 2 majors and some stuff, but that's a huge amount for a middling sort of player

 

Just relaying what I heard in the interview, so not really sure. I would imagine he's done pretty well off the course as well, between endorsements and his Loudmouth brand.

 

One of the funnier stories from the interview was that JD no longer plays blackack, because the casinos no longer let him play all 7 hands at once and anything less doesn't move the needle for him.

[CasualLie]

It is PM's right to gamble away his cash; go for it, be happy, but suffer the consequences as well. Lucky for PM someone likes him because he sure is catching a break with the government.

 

Just an opinion, yes, but personally I think he does have a gambling problem, and realistically has a liquidity problem. If he's so flush with cash then why not just pay off the gambling debt? Why take the foolish risk making "insider" stock trades? Combine this with selling property at a loss and having to back out of an investment group to buy the Padres, and it looks like a guy not as wealthy as others may think. I didn't hear any other Padres investor ranting about taxes.

 

Not that it matters though, PM's a hell of a golfer, very entertaining...gamble away Phil

[jmck]

It is PM's right to gamble away his cash; go for it, be happy, but suffer the consequences as well. Lucky for PM someone likes him because he sure is catching a break with the government.

 

Just an opinion, yes, but personally I think he does have a gambling problem, and realistically has a liquidity problem. If he's so flush with cash then why not just pay off the gambling debt? Why take the foolish risk making "insider" stock trades? Combine this with selling property at a loss and having to back out of an investment group to buy the Padres, and it looks like a guy not as wealthy as others may think. I didn't hear any other Padres investor ranting about taxes.

 

Not that it matters though, PM's a hell of a golfer, very entertaining...gamble away Phil

 

The rumor at the time this story first hit (a few years back when they arrested Walters) was that Phil went the insider trading route so as to hide the size of the debt he'd run up from Amy. That's textbook "if you ____ then you might have a problem" behavior.

[KillerPenguin]

I get the feeling some of the posters here have lived a sheltered life when it comes to seeing addiction (of any kind) up close.

 

As to the OP's question: There is no number you can put on it as a threshold where on one side it's okay and on another side it's not okay. Someone could spend a larger % than Phil and not have a problem, just as easily as someone could spend a smaller % than Phil and have a problem.

 

Read the question again. What is your personal threshold? For me it's somewhere around 5%. And that would mean gambling would be my one big entertainment expense. No movies, no dinners out, no golf, just gambling.

[RoryGenius]

Anyone who gambles has an IQ less than their shoe size.

[Hawkeye77]

Some rich people spend big money on extra houses, other forms of entertainment, hobbies or recreation. Phil can do what he likes.

 

I don't think I want to calculate what % of my gross income I spend on golf (then if someone else at home asked I couldn't truthfully say I have no idea), but I'll bet it would give me no basis for criticizing Phil.

 

On the stock thing, government was satisfied with a settlement, great - move on world.

 

 

[wobgon]

Some interesting comments here. His own business but

1. When they quoted his $48M income, I read that as gross......after taxes, expenses (jets etc), his net is a lot lower. Meaning that $1M+ is not just couch change

2. The guy definitely has a problem. If he is in to one fellow for over $1M (and that is just one snapshot in time), you think he isn't also laying wagers elsewhere?

3. The house always wins (yes, I know Mr Walters is not a casino, but pretty sure the odds are stacked in his favour, like with any bookie)

4. Could there be worse timing for all this? And did he actually think this would just quietly go away? I had been bullish on his chances next week, but this distraction can't help.

5. See #2

And how would one know that he has not won a pile elsewhere. You saying the guy "definitely has a problem" is your opinion and nothing more.

 

Re winning a pile elsewhere - see point 3.

Re "my opinion" - correct. See the first line of my post - it's his own business. But would be sad to see this escalate much further. Seems he narrowly dodged some fairly significant legal consequences on this insider trading deal. Which it is now confirmed are directly related to a gambling debt.....

What does point three have to do with the possibility of him winning a pile elsewhere? As far as the house always winning.......I booked for 30 years. The house does not always win.......Aside from that, I also have won large amounts of cash from one person or one establishment and never dealt with that person or establishment again.........This would be what i mean by winning a pile elsewhere in which case, your point 3 would not hold water.

[robrey85]

Being in Vegas all of my life, there's no better feeling when you're knee deep in what we call, "the sweat" and come out on top. That's why people gamble. To come out on the bottom, is an awful awful awful feeling.

 

Truth: Back when I was working part time at my current job I was getting paychecks of like $550ish and cashing them at the casino, then playing some table games. I cashed a check one time with some buddies and we went to the Blackjack tables. Needless to say, I got my arse handed to me and lost my entire paycheck. My buddy, being up a little bit, tossed me $60 and I proceeded to run it back up to about $500 plus his $60 which I gave back to him. At that point it was time to get out of dodge so he says he has to go to the bathroom so I say okay. We are literally standing around out of our chairs, waiting for him when I toss down a $50 hand, lose. $75 lose. $100, dealer gets a five card 21. Lol, I proceeded to lose my cool and just put down everything I had and lost it all in the 5 minutes my buddy was in the can. Worst feeling ever. Talk about throwing away second chances. I couldn't have felt more like a turd sandwich than I did and I will never live that memory down as long as I live, haha.

[Togatown22]

Gambling losses are only half the story, what about gambling winnings ?

For many its a hobby, and if you are into any stocks or 401K etc... then

You too, are gambling !

 

Investing in the financial markets is not inherently gambling.

If you think it is, you're doing it wrong.

[tw68ca]

Some interesting comments here. His own business but

1. When they quoted his $48M income, I read that as gross......after taxes, expenses (jets etc), his net is a lot lower. Meaning that $1M+ is not just couch change

2. The guy definitely has a problem. If he is in to one fellow for over $1M (and that is just one snapshot in time), you think he isn't also laying wagers elsewhere?

3. The house always wins (yes, I know Mr Walters is not a casino, but pretty sure the odds are stacked in his favour, like with any bookie)

4. Could there be worse timing for all this? And did he actually think this would just quietly go away? I had been bullish on his chances next week, but this distraction can't help.

5. See #2

And how would one know that he has not won a pile elsewhere. You saying the guy "definitely has a problem" is your opinion and nothing more.

 

Re winning a pile elsewhere - see point 3.

Re "my opinion" - correct. See the first line of my post - it's his own business. But would be sad to see this escalate much further. Seems he narrowly dodged some fairly significant legal consequences on this insider trading deal. Which it is now confirmed are directly related to a gambling debt.....

What does point three have to do with the possibility of him winning a pile elsewhere? As far as the house always winning.......I booked for 30 years. The house does not always win.......Aside from that, I also have won large amounts of cash from one person or one establishment and never dealt with that person or establishment again.........This would be what i mean by winning a pile elsewhere in which case, your point 3 would not hold water.

 

You booked for 30 years - you know a lot of regular gamblers who win far more often than they lose? Interesting. To me, the links that are alleged in the reporting on this story indicate a gentleman who has a bit of a problem. Again, his business - but as a fan I would hate to see this escalate further.

[jmck]

I get the feeling some of the posters here have lived a sheltered life when it comes to seeing addiction (of any kind) up close.

 

As to the OP's question: There is no number you can put on it as a threshold where on one side it's okay and on another side it's not okay. Someone could spend a larger % than Phil and not have a problem, just as easily as someone could spend a smaller % than Phil and have a problem.

 

Read the question again. What is your personal threshold? For me it's somewhere around 5%. And that would mean gambling would be my one big entertainment expense. No movies, no dinners out, no golf, just gambling.

 

Fair enough. Personally speaking, I'm quite Irish and one side of my family is hopeless alcoholics going back as many generations as we can count. I'm old enough to know my personality type. For me the answer is 0%.

[BoogieThumper]

If this was about you know who this thread would be 20 pages with people calling for a ban from the PGA tour. Ive read posts calling you know who a POS because hes a bad tipper. Phil may have broken the law and we're talking about getting him help.

 

A post above said it's PM's money he can do what he wants. True but when I say it's You know who's money he dosent have to tip $500 for a burger people lose their ____!

[DrunkenTiger]

0.1%

 

:)

[wobgon]

Some interesting comments here. His own business but

1. When they quoted his $48M income, I read that as gross......after taxes, expenses (jets etc), his net is a lot lower. Meaning that $1M+ is not just couch change

2. The guy definitely has a problem. If he is in to one fellow for over $1M (and that is just one snapshot in time), you think he isn't also laying wagers elsewhere?

3. The house always wins (yes, I know Mr Walters is not a casino, but pretty sure the odds are stacked in his favour, like with any bookie)

4. Could there be worse timing for all this? And did he actually think this would just quietly go away? I had been bullish on his chances next week, but this distraction can't help.

5. See #2

And how would one know that he has not won a pile elsewhere. You saying the guy "definitely has a problem" is your opinion and nothing more.

 

Re winning a pile elsewhere - see point 3.

Re "my opinion" - correct. See the first line of my post - it's his own business. But would be sad to see this escalate much further. Seems he narrowly dodged some fairly significant legal consequences on this insider trading deal. Which it is now confirmed are directly related to a gambling debt.....

What does point three have to do with the possibility of him winning a pile elsewhere? As far as the house always winning.......I booked for 30 years. The house does not always win.......Aside from that, I also have won large amounts of cash from one person or one establishment and never dealt with that person or establishment again.........This would be what i mean by winning a pile elsewhere in which case, your point 3 would not hold water.

 

You booked for 30 years - you know a lot of regular gamblers who win far more often than they lose? Interesting. To me, the links that are alleged in the reporting on this story indicate a gentleman who has a bit of a problem. Again, his business - but as a fan I would hate to see this escalate further.

Where did I ever even hint that I know a lot of regular gamblers who win far more than they lose.......If you are interested in what I am saying, just read what i am saying........I mean what I have posted....nothing more. Nothing less.

[tw68ca]

You have lost me on the point you are trying to make.....

[KillerPenguin]

You have lost me on the point you are trying to make.....

Are responding to the OP or another post?

[tw68ca]

You have lost me on the point you are trying to make.....

Are responding to the OP or another post?

 

I'm sorry, it was to the post above the one I made. The tool told me I had too many quoted posts in my reply....sorry.

[is76550]

My dad told me never bet more than you are willing to lose, and I HATE losing money. If we play a money game its no more than $1 a hole.

[playa]

Gambling is like any other potentially ptoblematic habit. It becomes a problem if you lose control over your actions. If you can't not gamble, or can't stop gambling even if you want to stop, you have a problem. In my personal opinion, playing golf for money is not gambling in the true sense of the word, as you have personal control of the outcome. Playing golf money games is not the same as throwing money on the roulette wheel or in the slots or other games of chance. Can't comment on Phil as I don't know what or how much his gambling entails.

[PowderedToastMan]

For those of you saying it's Phil's right and his business, I agree. That being said, gambling addiction is a serious thing that ruins lives and families. I don't know if Phil is an addict, but it's more than a hobby for many people. It's an uncontrolled compulsion. Dewey Tomko comes to mind. He's fortunate that he's actually made money, but the guy used to be a kindergarten teacher who spent all night gambling, then went to teach the next day. Even now, the guy essentially must gamble every minute of the day. He can barely sleep because he needs to gamble. It's crazy.

 

There are guys with less than nothing doing the same thing. People who have kids gambling money that's meant for diapers. It's a terrible problem.

[bladehunter]

Some rich people spend big money on extra houses, other forms of entertainment, hobbies or recreation. Phil can do what he likes.

 

I don't think I want to calculate what % of my gross income I spend on golf (then if someone else at home asked I couldn't truthfully say I have no idea), but I'll bet it would give me no basis for criticizing Phil.

 

On the stock thing, government was satisfied with a settlement, great - move on world.

 

 

Plausible deniability ! Smart , very smart !

[Petunia Sprinkle]

On the peripheral subject of what people are willing to risk, it puzzles me how people, who'll text while driving, can stand on the first tee shaking in their shoes over the possibility of missing the ball.

[sfiggins]

Played $25 BJ table at Foxwoods and won 4 straight including a double down. Got up to leave with my $125 winning (cost of night's hotel room) and the lady beside me said with a surprised look on her face, "Why are you leaving, you're winning!" I replied, "Exactly."

[BIG STU]

Last week Charles Barkley reported that Michael Jordan routinely has hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line in a round of golf.

 

Those guys play in a different financial universe than you and I.

 

When I played out at Big Horn in Palm Springs one of the caddies said MJ and a famous poker player were playing 100k a hole. Just like you said, its all relative. To these guys its just fun, to me, I'm having a heart attack.

I bet he was playing with Doyle Brunson or one of the Binion boys. MJ used to play some serious money matches around the Charlotte NC area too

[playa]

For those of you saying it's Phil's right and his business, I agree. That being said, gambling addiction is a serious thing that ruins lives and families. I don't know if Phil is an addict, but it's more than a hobby for many people. It's an uncontrolled compulsion. Dewey Tomko comes to mind. He's fortunate that he's actually made money, but the guy used to be a kindergarten teacher who spent all night gambling, then went to teach the next day. Even now, the guy essentially must gamble every minute of the day. He can barely sleep because he needs to gamble. It's crazy.

 

There are guys with less than nothing doing the same thing. People who have kids gambling money that's meant for diapers. It's a terrible problem.

All very true. In Australia we have a huge social problem with gambling addicition, which can be attributed largely to the saturation of poker machines (slots) in venues. Most states here have allowed pokies to be put in public bars and registered clubs, so you can't really leave the house without having access to pokes. Online sports betting betting companies being official partners of sports authorities hasn't helped either. Even in the comfort of your living room watching the game you get advertisers of gambling telling you how to use your cell phone to put on a bet. The pokies have ruined countless lives in our society here. Family homes, life savings and retirement funds lost. Model employees who embezzle hundreds of thiusands of dollars from their employers to feed their habit and end up in jail. Pokie addiction really is a crazy thing. It makes rational people do insane things. Nobody is immune. And before you ask no I'm not one myself, but in my young days I had issues with gambling and I know plenty of people who have been ruined by it. Luckily for me I just stopped when responsibilities like a family and mortgage came along, but not everyone can.

[Soloman1]

Anyone who gambles has an IQ less than their shoe size.

 

The stock market is nothing more than people gambling, like going to the track in suits.

 

They read the Wall Street Journal instead of The Racing Form. They study the competitiors of a company stock instead of studying the field. They study the CEO instead of jockey. They study the market conditions instead of the weather. They have a margin instead of a line of credit.

 

:)

[bscinstnct]

Anyone who gambles has an IQ less than their shoe size.

 

The stock market is nothing more than people gambling, like going to the track in suits.

 

They read the Wall Street Journal instead of The Racing Form. They study the competitiors of a company stock instead of studying the field. They study the CEO instead of jockey. They study the market conditions instead of the weather. They have a margin instead of a line of credit.

 

:)

 

And they do it all with other peoples money!

 

And make the vig whether it goes up or down. And if things really blow up? No problem, they just get bailed out by the 'house' ; )