Why no nasty short putts on tour?

[bladehunter]

"OP didn't want to be told his sudden realization of easy pins on tour was actually false. We could have Mike Davis tell him the pins are harder on tour and I don't think OP would believe it"

 

 

 

well to be fair.......Mike isnt the pillar of responsible course setter uppers.... he generally does whatever Jack says , and/or has his own brain farts that lead to WTF moments...

[golfandfishing]

Mark m - if you had access to the old professional or tour balata ball would you have played that at Hazeltine?

 

It's a good question. No I would not have. I did not play them back in my wood wood days either. I am 55 now. I was 45 for that tournament. I have always had a high swing speed and generate lots of spin. I tried those old balatas back in the day but hit them out of round in a hurry. During that state am they measured drives on one hole each of the first two days. On the previous hole, #12, I "won" the long drive in the fairway for the day at 341 yards. It probably rolled 30 or 40 yards. (BTW: no prizes for that "win." LOL) I was playing ProV1x. By the way, both of those holes go in the same direction and there was basically no wind at that time. I really don't know if one of those old balls would have made much of a difference under the circumstances. I think changing to a ball like that could also throw off your carry distances and therefore could be a net negative.

 

What did you play "back then"? Surlyn DT? Tour Edition?

 

When the abortion at Shinnecock was mid catastrophe I thought Els or Mickelson would have busted out an old sleeve of professionals for the final round if they had them handy.

[PureStrikes54]

Also, those who think tour players "smash" short putts into the back of the hole have no idea what they are talking about. For the most part, they are hitting short putts with ideal speed (which is different depending on many factors green speed, up/down hill, smoothness). It should be common knowledge by now that any putt hit harder than cup speed effectively shrinks the cup size. I dont think tour players are attaining a 95% make rate from 3 feet by hitting these short putts "hard" or "right into the back of the cup." Doing so would shrink the cup to a size that would make a 95% make rate impossible, as well as introducing the risk of 3-putting from an incredibly short distance.

 

I guess that depends on the definition of "smash", but its pretty safe to say that pros regularly hit 3-5ft putts with enough force to go 10+ feet fairly often. It doesn't shrink the size of the hole, it removes the variable introduced by any break.

 

Lol. Ok. Whatever you say.

 

Ok 10ft might be pushing it a touch, but they regularly hit these short putts with enough force to double the distance of the putt.

 

 

 

Wrong. 10 feet to double the length of the putt??? This is complete misinformation. This video was posted in the instruction forum by an instructor teaching multiple PGA, Web, and Canada tour professionals. At 5 feet past the cup size shrinks to essentially nothing and you wouldn't make a thing.

 

[playa]

Another thing to consider is that just cause 3 footers are flat doesn't mean the pin is easy if you are further out than 3 feet. Most times the tricky part is actually getting it to the 3 foot circle.

 

A good example is Augusta. Even though many of the greens are large, they play small. You need precision. More 3 putts there even though Ritchie says they make more short putts there than typical because the greens are so good and true. One hole that comes to mind is number nine. I assume they test it to make sure you can stop the ball on the front tier from the back of the green with a well hit putt. It would have to be near perfect though. No flinching!

Augusta is a perfect example. You rarely see missed 3 footers, but miss to the wrong part of the green on your approach and some times 12 feet is as close as you can get on the first putt.

[finleysg]

If i were to play Augusta, I would put the over/under on putts at 45. And I would probably bet the over.

[chrismikayla]

They had a web.com qualifier at my home course once. I played the day before and the pin positions for the qualifier were marked. I have never seen pin positions that easy before.

 

I asked the pro about it and he said there is a limit to how much slope there can be around the hole for tour events.

Yeah these overzealous course workers could take a page from this.

[Valtiel]

Also, those who think tour players "smash" short putts into the back of the hole have no idea what they are talking about. For the most part, they are hitting short putts with ideal speed (which is different depending on many factors green speed, up/down hill, smoothness). It should be common knowledge by now that any putt hit harder than cup speed effectively shrinks the cup size. I dont think tour players are attaining a 95% make rate from 3 feet by hitting these short putts "hard" or "right into the back of the cup." Doing so would shrink the cup to a size that would make a 95% make rate impossible, as well as introducing the risk of 3-putting from an incredibly short distance.

 

I guess that depends on the definition of "smash", but its pretty safe to say that pros regularly hit 3-5ft putts with enough force to go 10+ feet fairly often. It doesn't shrink the size of the hole, it removes the variable introduced by any break.

 

Lol. Ok. Whatever you say.

 

Ok 10ft might be pushing it a touch, but they regularly hit these short putts with enough force to double the distance of the putt.

 

 

 

Wrong. 10 feet to double the length of the putt??? This is complete misinformation. This video was posted in the instruction forum by an instructor teaching multiple PGA, Web, and Canada tour professionals. At 5 feet past the cup size shrinks to essentially nothing and you wouldn't make a thing.

 

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How can it be complete misinformation if I am posting videos of it happening? Sure it doesn't happen ALL the time, but go to 1:54 in this video from yesterday's round and tell me that 3 foot putt would not have gone a total of 6ft+ had the hole not been there:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WMShOg1RbE?t=114

 

And just to clarify, i'm not talking about 10ft/double the distance BEYOND the hole, i'm talking about total e.g. hitting a 2ft putt with 4ft of force and a 3ft putt with 6ft of force. I definitely conceded that this is rare on downhill putts and more common on uphillers, but it definitely happens. Obviously the numbers fall off dramatically as the putt gets longer, no one hits a 10ft putt with 20ft of force but PLENTY of guys double the overall length in terms of force on the short ones.

[chichi72]

Here is a fact: Jordan Spieths scoring average in college in 2012 was 70.92, he also played 5 event on the PGA tour that season and had a scoring average of 70.639. If the PGA tour is so much harder than what the rest of the course we play, shouldn't there be a difference the other way? Almost every good player who comes on tour from college takes the "challenge" with ease (Rahm being the latest player to do so). I know they are world class and plays a whole other game than us, but I do think playing on the PGA tour gives you an easier game than many here thinks. The setup with no lost balls, hard and fast fairways for extra roll and perfect fast greens makes up for many of the harder problems they face.

 

this is laughable. For every one golfer that makes the transition look easy, how many can't even sniff success on the mini tours? Pick a random top D1 golf program, and look at their roster 3 years ago and see what those guys have done since they graduated.

[Lodestone]

I know at the course I play, there are plenty of 2 1/2 foot putts that you just have to play outside the cup. Which makes it a "speed" putt, in that if you hit it too hard it may stay up, but too soft and it will break off short of the hole. That would pretty much be my definition of a "nasty" short putt. So, is that the type of putt the USGA and PGA would try to avoid?

When I watch the pros there are plenty of short putts that have to be started outside the hole.

I would agree with that observation.

[PureStrikes54]

You started by saying pros regularly hit 3-5 foot putts to go 10'+ past the hole which is misinformation. Nothing would go in ever. You then moved the goal posts when you thought about how ridiculous that statement is to change it to "double the length". This theory holds water to about 3 feet and even at those distances is flawed putting, especially on PGA tour surfaces with almost no cup donut or imperfections to navigate.

 

The videos don't validate your theory. Willet with a "must make" downhill putt in the Ryder Cup on greens that look 13+.Rory on complete putting tilt with extreme downhillers on faster than normal greens, and Lingmerth putting straight up the hill.

 

No pro's are putting 4-5 footers with the intention to go 4-5 feet past the hole. At cup speed the entire cup is available and significantly decreases in size the harder you hit it. With 5 foot past the cup speed, the cup is roughly a half inch wide.

 

Spieth regularly works on a speed control drill to hit all of his 5-10 footers six inches past the hole and 10-20 footers a foot past the hole. Why would he do this if he intended on hammering them come game time.

[Valtiel]

You started by saying pros regularly hit 3-5 foot putts to go 10'+ past the hole which is misinformation. Nothing would go in ever. You then moved the goal posts when you thought about how ridiculous that statement is to change it to "double the length". This theory holds water to about 3 feet and even at those distances is flawed putting, especially on PGA tour surfaces with almost no cup donut or imperfections to navigate.

 

The videos don't validate your theory. Willet with a "must make" downhill putt in the Ryder Cup on greens that look 13+.Rory on complete putting tilt with extreme downhillers on faster than normal greens, and Lingmerth putting straight up the hill.

 

No pro's are putting 4-5 footers with the intention to go 4-5 feet past the hole. At cup speed the entire cup is available and significantly decreases in size the harder you hit it. With 5 foot past the cup speed, the cup is roughly a half inch wide.

 

Spieth regularly works on a speed control drill to hit all of his 5-10 footers six inches past the hole and 10-20 footers a foot past the hole. Why would he do this if he intended on hammering them come game time.

 

I never said 10ft past the hole, I said 10ft period. So for a 5ft putt, 5 feet past the hole. I walked that back because I thought that was a bit too much, but I don't care what pros practice, I care about what i'm seeing on TV. Rory on complete tilt was not smashing putts any more than he usually does, and the first one that he went 4ft by was uphill. Lingmerth was uphill as well, don't really care because that isn't the point, the putt was still going 3ft+ by if it missed. I'm not talking about 5-10 footers or 10-20 footers, i'm talking 2-5 footers. There are a few examples of Jordan Spieth's performance at the Traveler's where he sent a few 5-10 footers about 3-4ft by as well, but imagine those were mistakes for him if he drills the way you mentioned.

[AC168]

I think the PGA Tour events have a 1* plus or minus slope requirement for three feet around the hole or something like that. The other tournaments not run by the PGA Tour don't.

[ex0dus]

I think pros do hit their short putts too hard fairly often, and i think the reason is obvious. When they are practicing short putts almost every putt goes in the hole and they may not realize that they are hitting it too hard.

 

I know when i practice short putts i putt to a coin to make sure my putts dont go more than 2' past the hole.

[mark m]

I think pros do hit their short putts too hard fairly often, and i think the reason is obvious. When they are practicing short putts almost every putt goes in the hole and they may not realize that they are hitting it too hard.

 

I know when i practice short putts i putt to a coin to make sure my putts dont go more than 2' past the hole.

 

Not sure about the pros and how they practice those - and some putt firmer than others - but like you, I noticed the tendency to start banging the ball to hard when I practice. I like the 12, 3, 6, and 9 clock drill (tees in the ground at both 3' and 4') . Some of the misses were going by 5' on the downhill putts. So I like to vary speed; some firm, some soft. For softer, go around without hitting the back of hole (the dirt) over the liner. Make it drop into the cup liner.

 

Phil is an interesting case. He used to have some bad streaks where he was missing and three putting from short distances as the first one went way by. These last few years he is putting better than ever at an age where others fall off. Good stuff. Shows what can be done.

[sandy]

Best at those short putts are Lexi and Michelle.. makes you cringe every time they have those length putts, add pressure of contending and it gets almost sad to watch.

[PuttingIsNotGolf]

Best at those short putts are Lexi and Michelle.. makes you cringe every time they have those length putts, add pressure of contending and it gets almost sad to watch.

 

I heard shorter people are better at putting than taller people

[JeffreySpicoli]

Best at those short putts are Lexi and Michelle.. makes you cringe every time they have those length putts, add pressure of contending and it gets almost sad to watch.

 

I heard shorter people are better at putting than taller people

 

Short people are just the same as you and I.

[Barfolomew]

If i were to play Augusta, I would put the over/under on putts at 45. And I would probably bet the over.

 

tough....till ya had a short one (cool)

[fowlerscousin]

They have plenty of annoying short putts, i watch all those golf shot fail videos, and those guys definitely look silly on some of those putts even within 3 feet

[nickmcd63]

What everyone else said...They're not easy puts the pros just make them look so. Also, very difficult to see the undulation on TV.

[PaullyP]

They hit them firm to take as much of the break out as they can

[Jc0]

I think pros do hit their short putts too hard fairly often, and i think the reason is obvious. When they are practicing short putts almost every putt goes in the hole and they may not realize that they are hitting it too hard.

 

I know when i practice short putts i putt to a coin to make sure my putts dont go more than 2' past the hole.

 

No, it is intentional. The harder you hit a putt the straighter it goes. This makes the short putts have less break so they can hit a straight putt without worry so much about the break. This is why you see such large lipouts on tour.

 

To the original topic go to an actual event. The camera takes away a majority the elevation and gives a false sense of speed. When you watch at an actual event you can tell how tough some of the putts they make look easy actually are.