Why no nasty short putts on tour?

[larrybud]

Stimp plus percent grade cannot be more than 15 to make it playable, hence pins are on relativly flat spots

[nochct1]

Here we go again. Pros putt on easy greens. Their smooth 13 stumped greens are easy..."just get it on the right line"...they never lose a ball because of crowds...the extra roll is the only reason for long drives...caddies are the real difference between tour pros and the average weekend hacker.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

And of course when the guy who has been playing the Canadian Tour chimes in everyone dismisses him.

 

 

[teejaywhy]

...

Do pros really get to skip out on the toughest part of the game? and why if so...please don't tell me its so they look better

 

It's so they look better.

 

[Shilgy]

Here we go again. Pros putt on easy greens. Their smooth 13 stumped greens are easy..."just get it on the right line"...they never lose a ball because of crowds...the extra roll is the only reason for long drives...caddies are the real difference between tour pros and the average weekend hacker.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

And of course when the guy who has been playing the Canadian Tour chimes in everyone dismisses him.

Yeah, you missed "they're not that long their irons are juiced, woods are hand picked for max Cor, and they get the special balls we don't get. " I'm sure I've missed a few as well.

[hybrid25]

Here we go again. Pros putt on easy greens. Their smooth 13 stumped greens are easy..."just get it on the right line"...they never lose a ball because of crowds...the extra roll is the only reason for long drives...caddies are the real difference between tour pros and the average weekend hacker.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

And of course when the guy who has been playing the Canadian Tour chimes in everyone dismisses him.

Yeah, you missed "they're not that long their irons are juiced, woods are hand picked for max Cor, and they get the special balls we don't get. " I'm sure I've missed a few as well.

I play 80% of my golf at public courses and maybe the other 20% at private courses. I can't believe how muchroll out I get at the private courses because they keep the fairway tight. I'm not saying that the pros don't hit the ball far because they do, but I do get much more roll on a drive at a private course that keeps their fairways similar to those on the tour. Just because there are certain things that make it easier for the pro on tour doesn't mean that these guys are not the best in the world, because they are. Also, they rarely you lose a golf ball because of the fans. with that being said I will also say the pros are amazingly good, they play a different game almost done what I play.

[nochct1]

Here we go again. Pros putt on easy greens. Their smooth 13 stumped greens are easy..."just get it on the right line"...they never lose a ball because of crowds...the extra roll is the only reason for long drives...caddies are the real difference between tour pros and the average weekend hacker.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

And of course when the guy who has been playing the Canadian Tour chimes in everyone dismisses him.

Yeah, you missed "they're not that long their irons are juiced, woods are hand picked for max Cor, and they get the special balls we don't get. " I'm sure I've missed a few as well.

I play 80% of my golf at public courses and maybe the other 20% at private courses. I can't believe how muchroll out I get at the private courses because they keep the fairway tight. I'm not saying that the pros don't hit the ball far because they do, but I do get much more roll on a drive at a private course that keeps their fairways similar to those on the tour. Just because there are certain things that make it easier for the pro on tour doesn't mean that these guys are not the best in the world, because they are. Also, they rarely you lose a golf ball because of the fans. with that being said I will also say the pros are amazingly good, they play a different game almost done what I play.

 

Faster fairways bring the rough into play. Slow fairways allow someone to hit the fairway without the ball rolling into the rough.

 

[straightslice]

They just make it look easy and they don't baby the short ones.

 

I agree; I watched YouTube footage of pros 4-putting, and it is amazing how much juice they give the short putts

 

This is true. Watch how far the ball goes on the off chance they miss a short putt. They are usually coming back longer than the original.

[Thrillhouse]

The pins are ridiculous. They rarely have perfectly flat putts around the holes

This isnt true, the tour wont put cup on a slope of more than 2.5%

 

They might not be ridiculous as far as putting them on extreme slopes goes (which is silly anyway IMO), but they are ridiculous as far as tucking them and cutting them near the edges goes. Tour pins are waaaay harder than anything an amateur sees, ever.

 

Thrill,

 

You are one of the best here at the wrx, but I'm sorry to say you are way off on this one.

 

The tour basically uses USGA recommendations for hole placements: flat spots, enough room to stiff a required shot from good position, and at least 4 yards from the edges. (The only one I can think of where it isn't 4 yards is the back location on the very short par 4 #10 at Riviera. The back of that green is about 7 yards wide – split that and it’s 3.5 yards or 10 feet from the edge.)

 

Sorry to say some of us have to put up with a-holes/idiots placing holes where they should not. I have played in tournaments with very firm and fast greens. Multiple holes tucked to 5 to 6 FEET (on greens roughly 30 x 30 yards) from the edge. Also placed on knobs or edges of slopes where a slight miss will leave you with 15-20'. (We have had these situations in our Club Championship more than once.) Even played a pro-am where the green had had major back to front slope and if you got above the hole you could not stop it and it would roll off the green if not holed. That hole was backed up and you could watch the clown show. Good for you guys if you haven’t had to put up with stuff.

 

Ritchie Hunt (tour stats guy) made a few good posts on this topic awhile back. Basically said the same things they said on the Open telecast - which is they stay below 3% slope. He also mentioned that the players make more short putts at Augusta because the greens are fast and so smooth. (I believe he said less than 8’.) He also mentioned that they also 3 putt more there as they have a hard time from long distance getting it close enough to make the next one. Look, “these guys are good” but let's not get carried away. They basically have the same conditions each week and have excellent green maps as well.

 

Best,

MM

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that if you look at my post I agreed that they don't slap pins on stupid slopes like you sometimes see out of lazy grounds crew workers who set pins poorly.

 

That being said you have both me and Chad McCann who have both played professional golf and D1 college golf, who have played as much if not more golf on the types of setups ams play regularly and who have real experience with the course setups in professional golf, and we're both saying the pins in professional golf are waaaay harder than what ams see during their Saturday morning rounds.

 

We aren't pulling this out of thin air, we're speaking from real life experience, this isn't what we assume to be true, this is us telling you guys how it actually works. Do they look for flattish spots? For sure, because it's supposed to be tough but fair, but they go tucking pins like crazy because it's often the only way to protect scoring.

 

If they played tour events with the pins set up the way they do the other 51 weeks out of the year you'd start to see winning scores of -40 some weeks. Tour pins are harder.

[Komarms]

Here we go again. Pros putt on easy greens. Their smooth 13 stumped greens are easy..."just get it on the right line"...they never lose a ball because of crowds...the extra roll is the only reason for long drives...caddies are the real difference between tour pros and the average weekend hacker.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

And of course when the guy who has been playing the Canadian Tour chimes in everyone dismisses him.

Yeah, you missed "they're not that long their irons are juiced, woods are hand picked for max Cor, and they get the special balls we don't get. " I'm sure I've missed a few as well.

I play 80% of my golf at public courses and maybe the other 20% at private courses. I can't believe how muchroll out I get at the private courses because they keep the fairway tight. I'm not saying that the pros don't hit the ball far because they do, but I do get much more roll on a drive at a private course that keeps their fairways similar to those on the tour. Just because there are certain things that make it easier for the pro on tour doesn't mean that these guys are not the best in the world, because they are. Also, they rarely you lose a golf ball because of the fans. with that being said I will also say the pros are amazingly good, they play a different game almost done what I play.

 

Faster fairways bring the rough into play. Slow fairways allow someone to hit the fairway without the ball rolling into the rough.

 

Is the rough really that big of a penalty on the PGA tour though?... other than maybe 3-4 events all year the rough is very playable for these guys

[nochct1]

Here we go again. Pros putt on easy greens. Their smooth 13 stumped greens are easy..."just get it on the right line"...they never lose a ball because of crowds...the extra roll is the only reason for long drives...caddies are the real difference between tour pros and the average weekend hacker.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

And of course when the guy who has been playing the Canadian Tour chimes in everyone dismisses him.

Yeah, you missed "they're not that long their irons are juiced, woods are hand picked for max Cor, and they get the special balls we don't get. " I'm sure I've missed a few as well.

I play 80% of my golf at public courses and maybe the other 20% at private courses. I can't believe how muchroll out I get at the private courses because they keep the fairway tight. I'm not saying that the pros don't hit the ball far because they do, but I do get much more roll on a drive at a private course that keeps their fairways similar to those on the tour. Just because there are certain things that make it easier for the pro on tour doesn't mean that these guys are not the best in the world, because they are. Also, they rarely you lose a golf ball because of the fans. with that being said I will also say the pros are amazingly good, they play a different game almost done what I play.

 

Faster fairways bring the rough into play. Slow fairways allow someone to hit the fairway without the ball rolling into the rough.

 

Is the rough really that big of a penalty on the PGA tour though?... other than maybe 3-4 events all year the rough is very playable for these guys

 

Haha. So you assume that if they played your local muni w slow fairways that it would hurt them because they would hit 9 iron instead of PW?

 

Rough is playable for those guys because they are really f****** good at golf.

 

Why can't people on this site accept the fact that Tour pros are THAT good. It's not the course. It's not the clubs. It's not the greens. Put them on a crappy muni and they'll go even lower.

 

 

[Komarms]

I'm not saying they aren't good, all I'm saying is the mentality that fairways are so important just isn't true especially when the rough isn't that thick on tour.

 

Any good player on a local muni course will tear it up... slow fairways or fast fairways are irrelevant

[mark m]

The pins are ridiculous. They rarely have perfectly flat putts around the holes

This isnt true, the tour wont put cup on a slope of more than 2.5%

 

They might not be ridiculous as far as putting them on extreme slopes goes (which is silly anyway IMO), but they are ridiculous as far as tucking them and cutting them near the edges goes. Tour pins are waaaay harder than anything an amateur sees, ever.

 

Thrill,

 

You are one of the best here at the wrx, but I'm sorry to say you are way off on this one.

 

The tour basically uses USGA recommendations for hole placements: flat spots, enough room to stiff a required shot from good position, and at least 4 yards from the edges. (The only one I can think of where it isn't 4 yards is the back location on the very short par 4 #10 at Riviera. The back of that green is about 7 yards wide split that and it's 3.5 yards or 10 feet from the edge.)

 

Sorry to say some of us have to put up with a-holes/idiots placing holes where they should not. I have played in tournaments with very firm and fast greens. Multiple holes tucked to 5 to 6 FEET (on greens roughly 30 x 30 yards) from the edge. Also placed on knobs or edges of slopes where a slight miss will leave you with 15-20'. (We have had these situations in our Club Championship more than once.) Even played a pro-am where the green had had major back to front slope and if you got above the hole you could not stop it and it would roll off the green if not holed. That hole was backed up and you could watch the clown show. Good for you guys if you haven't had to put up with stuff.

 

Ritchie Hunt (tour stats guy) made a few good posts on this topic awhile back. Basically said the same things they said on the Open telecast - which is they stay below 3% slope. He also mentioned that the players make more short putts at Augusta because the greens are fast and so smooth. (I believe he said less than 8'.) He also mentioned that they also 3 putt more there as they have a hard time from long distance getting it close enough to make the next one. Look, "these guys are good" but let's not get carried away. They basically have the same conditions each week and have excellent green maps as well.

 

Best,

MM

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that if you look at my post I agreed that they don't slap pins on stupid slopes like you sometimes see out of lazy grounds crew workers who set pins poorly.

 

That being said you have both me and Chad McCann who have both played professional golf and D1 college golf, who have played as much if not more golf on the types of setups ams play regularly and who have real experience with the course setups in professional golf, and we're both saying the pins in professional golf are waaaay harder than what ams see during their Saturday morning rounds.

 

We aren't pulling this out of thin air, we're speaking from real life experience, this isn't what we assume to be true, this is us telling you guys how it actually works. Do they look for flattish spots? For sure, because it's supposed to be tough but fair, but they go tucking pins like crazy because it's often the only way to protect scoring.

 

If they played tour events with the pins set up the way they do the other 51 weeks out of the year you'd start to see winning scores of -40 some weeks. Tour pins are harder.

 

Hi Thrill,

 

You said "ever"

 

I am saying not true. We get "nasty" some times. The thread is "why no nasty short putts." The why no nasty short putts is because the tour does a great job following the USGA recommendations which are laid down in "How to Conduct a Competition" and also the Handicap System manual. They have more experience doing it and have done a better and more consistent job than the USGA has done with the US Open in some past years. Are they tucked 4 or 5 yards from edges on most of the holes? Yes. You may have a nasty long putt if you don't hit a good approach. Are they tougher than a typical weekend set-up for most of us? Yes. But this thread isn't about getting to the tough hole locations. It is about why no nasty big breaking short putts. And the answer is because they do a good competent professional job. Some of us aren't so lucky. I wish everybody followed the recommendations. I personally like tough but fair. Just don't care for gimmicky or worse.

[Barfolomew]

They make it look easy, but I think the TV lies... everything looks pretty flat on TV... Except the weather girls lol..

 

That's just rude...maybe your brain is flat! please leave the overly proportioned ladies out of our clean golf discussion... gosh have some respect it might be a glandular problem! ....call me Baby Shanks lets jump out and swish some nasty short ones ha!

[stryper]

Here we go again. Pros putt on easy greens. Their smooth 13 stumped greens are easy..."just get it on the right line"...they never lose a ball because of crowds...the extra roll is the only reason for long drives...caddies are the real difference between tour pros and the average weekend hacker.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

And of course when the guy who has been playing the Canadian Tour chimes in everyone dismisses him.

Yeah, you missed "they're not that long their irons are juiced, woods are hand picked for max Cor, and they get the special balls we don't get. " I'm sure I've missed a few as well.

I play 80% of my golf at public courses and maybe the other 20% at private courses. I can't believe how muchroll out I get at the private courses because they keep the fairway tight. I'm not saying that the pros don't hit the ball far because they do, but I do get much more roll on a drive at a private course that keeps their fairways similar to those on the tour. Just because there are certain things that make it easier for the pro on tour doesn't mean that these guys are not the best in the world, because they are. Also, they rarely you lose a golf ball because of the fans. with that being said I will also say the pros are amazingly good, they play a different game almost done what I play.

 

Faster fairways bring the rough into play. Slow fairways allow someone to hit the fairway without the ball rolling into the rough.

 

Is the rough really that big of a penalty on the PGA tour though?... other than maybe 3-4 events all year the rough is very playable for these guys

 

Haven't been to a lot of different tour venues, but I have been to Medinah, Valhalla and Bellerive...to my amateur eye, those roughs look extremely playable.

[hybrid25]

Nochct1

Haha. So you assume that if they played your local muni w slow fairways that it would hurt them because they would hit 9 iron instead of PW?

( nobody is making that assumption)

 

Nochct1

Rough is playable for those guys because they are really f****** good at golf.

(thanks for the language)

 

Nochct1

Why can't people on this site accept the fact that Tour pros are THAT good. It's not the course. It's not the clubs. It's not the greens. Put them on a crappy muni and they'll go even lower.

(I think everybody in here except that the pros are that good!)

 

[Lodestone]

I know at the course I play, there are plenty of 2 1/2 foot putts that you just have to play outside the cup. Which makes it a "speed" putt, in that if you hit it too hard it may stay up, but too soft and it will break off short of the hole. That would pretty much be my definition of a "nasty" short putt. So, is that the type of putt the USGA and PGA would try to avoid?

[Shilgy]

I know at the course I play, there are plenty of 2 1/2 foot putts that you just have to play outside the cup. Which makes it a "speed" putt, in that if you hit it too hard it may stay up, but too soft and it will break off short of the hole. That would pretty much be my definition of a "nasty" short putt. So, is that the type of putt the USGA and PGA would try to avoid?

When I watch the pros there are plenty of short putts that have to be started outside the hole.

[Guia]

With green speeds of 12 - 14 there are no easy putts, and they miss their share of short putts. I saw Phil 4 putt from approximately 15 feet, major tournaments have been lost more than once because of a short putt.

[hybrid25]

 

The professional golfer knows what side of the hole to hit his approach shot, and generally can get the job done. Funny thing happened to me on a particular par 3 with a tough putting green, when my tee shot landed on the back of the green and I proceeded to five putt. It was very steep downhill and sidehill grade. Needless to say I was on the wrong side of the hole and should have hit below the hole instead of way above the hole.

[Richardcabeeza]

It's a whole 'nother ball game putting on super fast greens. My very first time playing a tour level course (old Donald Ross design) after only playing crappy muni courses, I had a 40 foot birdie putt from the back of the green on one to a pin front center. Obviously the green sloped down from the back to the front. I ended up going from a 40ft birdie putt to a 30 yard pitch back up to the green. It wasn't even crazily sloped, but when you're used to greens that probably run a 5 and you step on to ones that run a 12 for the first time, there's a learning curve. I knew the greens were faster so I thought I'd adjusted accordingly. Nope. It almost stopped on the very front but once it ran off it rolled all the way down from the raised green. I think my jaw was on the ground.

 

I'm now more used to fast greens. I still struggle with distance control on downhill putts. It's probably the weakest part of my game. To tap something that lightly and have no clue if it will stop 5 feet past or 25 is hard for me to judge. This is one of the biggest areas where I can watch pros and know that they are so much better than I am. Even on tricky long downhill putts they usually leave themselves something that's makeable. Not that I do it every time but most of the time I can hit a drive that looks like they hit it. I can hit an iron that looks like they do most of the time. I rarely hit a downhill 60 footer that looks like a pro hit it. I'm happy with 10 feet coming back up the hill in that situation and am praying that I'm not still 15 feet above. It doesn't matter how much I practice either, I just will never be as good as them in this area.

[djmohab2]

I'm not saying they aren't good, all I'm saying is the mentality that fairways are so important just isn't true especially when the rough isn't that thick on tour.

 

Any good player on a local muni course will tear it up... slow fairways or fast fairways are irrelevant

 

Actually....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/01/AR2007070101221_2.html?sid=ST2009071701245

[SurfDuffer]

There are general guidelines about where to place pins and i believe that it is "suggested" that they be in areas that are relatively flat for 3-5 feet (whatever it is) on all sides. My guess would be that the PGA tour does indeed follow these more than some country clubs where inexperienced people are laying down the pins

 

For example just today there were 2 pins at my club that i don't think would ever fly on tour. i think all they tell the guys at my club is "drop the ball around the hole and if it doesn't move it's OK"....however they do this at 5AM when the greens are wet. I had a flag a few weeks ago where if you dropped the ball from 3 feet in the air any side of the hole it would roll 20 feet down a slope. That would never happen on tour.

 

Had a pin position one day last year where I burned the edge with my putt and the ball ran past by a foot. The ball then rolled back into the cup. That's how much of a slope the pin was on. There is also a common pin placement I see where it is possible that you would need to putt almost 90* from 3-5 feet away if you are past the hole.

[ex0dus]

 

 

 

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that if you look at my post I agreed that they don't slap pins on stupid slopes like you sometimes see out of lazy grounds crew workers who set pins poorly.

 

That being said you have both me and Chad McCann who have both played professional golf and D1 college golf, who have played as much if not more golf on the types of setups ams play regularly and who have real experience with the course setups in professional golf, and we're both saying the pins in professional golf are waaaay harder than what ams see during their Saturday morning rounds.

 

We aren't pulling this out of thin air, we're speaking from real life experience, this isn't what we assume to be true, this is us telling you guys how it actually works. Do they look for flattish spots? For sure, because it's supposed to be tough but fair, but they go tucking pins like crazy because it's often the only way to protect scoring.

 

If they played tour events with the pins set up the way they do the other 51 weeks out of the year you'd start to see winning scores of -40 some weeks. Tour pins are harder.

 

I can't speak for others but in my case that is flat out wrong. The pins that i see routinely are far harder then you would see at a tour event.

 

I have had hit uphill putts that missed the hole and rolled backwards plenty of times, sometimes several feet. Downhill putts that wouldn't stay on the green unless they hit the hole no matter how easy they are hit.

 

Sure the greens are faster at a tour event, but the slopes around the pins aren't even close to what i normally see. I have attended dozens of PGA tour events over the years and i can see very clearly where the pins are.

[NoTalentLefty]

Summary: Pros good. You suck. (Us)

[McCann1]

I can't wait to play in events with the pins as easy as everybody says they look from tv or outside the ropes

[nochct1]

 

 

 

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that if you look at my post I agreed that they don't slap pins on stupid slopes like you sometimes see out of lazy grounds crew workers who set pins poorly.

 

That being said you have both me and Chad McCann who have both played professional golf and D1 college golf, who have played as much if not more golf on the types of setups ams play regularly and who have real experience with the course setups in professional golf, and we're both saying the pins in professional golf are waaaay harder than what ams see during their Saturday morning rounds.

 

We aren't pulling this out of thin air, we're speaking from real life experience, this isn't what we assume to be true, this is us telling you guys how it actually works. Do they look for flattish spots? For sure, because it's supposed to be tough but fair, but they go tucking pins like crazy because it's often the only way to protect scoring.

 

If they played tour events with the pins set up the way they do the other 51 weeks out of the year you'd start to see winning scores of -40 some weeks. Tour pins are harder.

 

I can't speak for others but in my case that is flat out wrong. The pins that i see routinely are far harder then you would see at a tour event.

 

I have had hit uphill putts that missed the hole and rolled backwards plenty of times, sometimes several feet. Downhill putts that wouldn't stay on the green unless they hit the hole no matter how easy they are hit.

 

Sure the greens are faster at a tour event, but the slopes around the pins aren't even close to what i normally see. I have attended dozens of PGA tour events over the years and i can see very clearly where the pins are.

 

Really? Which courses do you play that are so much harder than PGA Tour / US Open Courses?

 

Can you at least tell us the names of these courses.

 

And are you a good golfer? We've heard from guys who have played (or currently playing) professional golf. Are you one of those, or at least a high level amateur?

[ex0dus]

 

 

 

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that if you look at my post I agreed that they don't slap pins on stupid slopes like you sometimes see out of lazy grounds crew workers who set pins poorly.

 

That being said you have both me and Chad McCann who have both played professional golf and D1 college golf, who have played as much if not more golf on the types of setups ams play regularly and who have real experience with the course setups in professional golf, and we're both saying the pins in professional golf are waaaay harder than what ams see during their Saturday morning rounds.

 

We aren't pulling this out of thin air, we're speaking from real life experience, this isn't what we assume to be true, this is us telling you guys how it actually works. Do they look for flattish spots? For sure, because it's supposed to be tough but fair, but they go tucking pins like crazy because it's often the only way to protect scoring.

 

If they played tour events with the pins set up the way they do the other 51 weeks out of the year you'd start to see winning scores of -40 some weeks. Tour pins are harder.

 

I can't speak for others but in my case that is flat out wrong. The pins that i see routinely are far harder then you would see at a tour event.

 

I have had hit uphill putts that missed the hole and rolled backwards plenty of times, sometimes several feet. Downhill putts that wouldn't stay on the green unless they hit the hole no matter how easy they are hit.

 

Sure the greens are faster at a tour event, but the slopes around the pins aren't even close to what i normally see. I have attended dozens of PGA tour events over the years and i can see very clearly where the pins are.

 

Really? Which courses do you play that are so much harder than PGA Tour / US Open Courses?

 

Can you at least tell us the names of these courses.

 

And are you a good golfer? We've heard from guys who have played (or currently playing) professional golf. Are you one of those, or at least a high level amateur?

 

 

I suggest you read my post again and try to make a coherent response to what i actually said. I never said my home course is harder than tour courses. RIF

 

FWIW i never played professionally but i did play Div 1 college golf back in the 80s.

[nochct1]

 

 

 

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that if you look at my post I agreed that they don't slap pins on stupid slopes like you sometimes see out of lazy grounds crew workers who set pins poorly.

 

That being said you have both me and Chad McCann who have both played professional golf and D1 college golf, who have played as much if not more golf on the types of setups ams play regularly and who have real experience with the course setups in professional golf, and we're both saying the pins in professional golf are waaaay harder than what ams see during their Saturday morning rounds.

 

We aren't pulling this out of thin air, we're speaking from real life experience, this isn't what we assume to be true, this is us telling you guys how it actually works. Do they look for flattish spots? For sure, because it's supposed to be tough but fair, but they go tucking pins like crazy because it's often the only way to protect scoring.

 

If they played tour events with the pins set up the way they do the other 51 weeks out of the year you'd start to see winning scores of -40 some weeks. Tour pins are harder.

 

I can't speak for others but in my case that is flat out wrong. The pins that i see routinely are far harder then you would see at a tour event.

 

I have had hit uphill putts that missed the hole and rolled backwards plenty of times, sometimes several feet. Downhill putts that wouldn't stay on the green unless they hit the hole no matter how easy they are hit.

 

Sure the greens are faster at a tour event, but the slopes around the pins aren't even close to what i normally see. I have attended dozens of PGA tour events over the years and i can see very clearly where the pins are.

 

Really? Which courses do you play that are so much harder than PGA Tour / US Open Courses?

 

Can you at least tell us the names of these courses.

 

And are you a good golfer? We've heard from guys who have played (or currently playing) professional golf. Are you one of those, or at least a high level amateur?

 

 

I suggest you read my post again and try to make a coherent response to what i actually said. I never said my home course is harder than tour courses. RIF

 

FWIW i never played professionally but i did play Div 1 college golf back in the 80s.

 

Sorry, you said the pins are far harder than what we would see at a Tour event. Which courses does this occur?

[dlygrisse]

Let's keep in mind who is setting the pins for the day. At a tour event each hole is placed by someone who is hired by the tour and is paid and trained to do it properly. At your home course it might be some $10 an hour hung over stoner who showed up at 6:00 am and was told to go change the holes for the day. Or it might be done in a well thought out manner by a highly professional greens superintendent.

 

Local munis could be pot luck.

[ex0dus]

 

 

 

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that if you look at my post I agreed that they don't slap pins on stupid slopes like you sometimes see out of lazy grounds crew workers who set pins poorly.

 

That being said you have both me and Chad McCann who have both played professional golf and D1 college golf, who have played as much if not more golf on the types of setups ams play regularly and who have real experience with the course setups in professional golf, and we're both saying the pins in professional golf are waaaay harder than what ams see during their Saturday morning rounds.

 

We aren't pulling this out of thin air, we're speaking from real life experience, this isn't what we assume to be true, this is us telling you guys how it actually works. Do they look for flattish spots? For sure, because it's supposed to be tough but fair, but they go tucking pins like crazy because it's often the only way to protect scoring.

 

If they played tour events with the pins set up the way they do the other 51 weeks out of the year you'd start to see winning scores of -40 some weeks. Tour pins are harder.

 

I can't speak for others but in my case that is flat out wrong. The pins that i see routinely are far harder then you would see at a tour event.

 

I have had hit uphill putts that missed the hole and rolled backwards plenty of times, sometimes several feet. Downhill putts that wouldn't stay on the green unless they hit the hole no matter how easy they are hit.

 

Sure the greens are faster at a tour event, but the slopes around the pins aren't even close to what i normally see. I have attended dozens of PGA tour events over the years and i can see very clearly where the pins are.

 

Really? Which courses do you play that are so much harder than PGA Tour / US Open Courses?

 

Can you at least tell us the names of these courses.

 

And are you a good golfer? We've heard from guys who have played (or currently playing) professional golf. Are you one of those, or at least a high level amateur?

 

 

I suggest you read my post again and try to make a coherent response to what i actually said. I never said my home course is harder than tour courses. RIF

 

FWIW i never played professionally but i did play Div 1 college golf back in the 80s.

 

Sorry, you said the pins are far harder than what we would see at a Tour event. Which courses does this occur?

 

Northwest Park golf course in MD. They routinely place the pins on severe slops or knobs,even on weekends. It was even worse a few years back, especially during tournaments. Overall they keep the course in pretty good shape given how much play the course gets, but the pins are a running joke.

 

That is why i was so shocked to see easy pins on every green during the Web.com qualifier. Not one tough pin in 18 holes.