Could a Scratch Golfer break 85 at Augusta?

[Shilgy]

This was probably mentioned 20 pages ago, but let's not forget that a 14 year old Guan shot 73, 75, 77, 75 there. A 14-year-old beat 85 by 12 shots on Thursday. Of course any scratch golfer could if things go right for them. They could also not, but that could also happen at any PGA Tour tournament.

 

If 12 over is the target, on any kind of good day, a scratch could make a few birdies on Augusta between 2, 3, 8, 13, 15. These 5 holes averaged under their par during this year's tournament. As long as you don't Sergio it on 15, get through those holes in Even par, and you only need to beat a bogey average on the rest of the holes to break 85.

 

Harry Ellis was the only player in the field to fail to break 85 during this Masters. But that came from trying to shoot in the 60s/low 70s. If he knew he just had to break 85, would he go for it in 2 on 13 and double bogey? Or would he play it safe and play for par? Much of Augusta is risk/reward, but if you're trying to beat 85, you're not necessarily taking on risks.

I guess that makes Mr Guan about a +10 or so. Gotta fit the narrative....

 

Guan Tianlang played many practice rounds at ANGC before Masters week and played with quite a few former champions, including Ben Crenshaw and Tiger Woods before the tournament proper. I am certain he learned where he could hit and where not to as well as learn to read and putt the greens. That in itself disqualified Guan from the criteria set forth by the OP. I am certain Guan was a + handicapped player before his Masters appearance. He became the youngest player to win on the China Amateur Futures Tour (2010) and the China Amateur Tour (2011), he won the Boys 11-12 division at the 2011 Callaway Junior World Golf Championships in San Diego by 11 strokes. At age 13 years and 173 days, he became the youngest player to compete on the European Tour at the 2012 Volvo China Open. He won the 2012 Asia-Pacific Amateur Championship just after he turned 14. This was the win that earned him automatic qualification to the 2013 Masters Tournament.

 

So to compare Guan to our hypothetical scratch is as ludicrous as this thread has become.

Is that what I wrote? What an odd reply. So Guan is only a +8 or so because he had practice?

Let's call him a +5 per so. Seem fair? So a 14 year old +5 can average 75 during the tournament ( on my phone or I would bold that last bit) and a platoon of scratch golfers could never ever ever ever sniff 85?

 

I would agree it's less than as given. I would also agree than a singular attempt is only about 20% likely.

 

But that also means 20 of 100 singular attempts likely would break 85. There are no clowns mouths or windmills guys. It's just a golf course. Not saying it's an easy one but it's still just golf. The scratch that understands that can shoot within 7 strokes of his cap in one attempt.

[RobotDoctor]

This was probably mentioned 20 pages ago, but let's not forget that a 14 year old Guan shot 73, 75, 77, 75 there. A 14-year-old beat 85 by 12 shots on Thursday. Of course any scratch golfer could if things go right for them. They could also not, but that could also happen at any PGA Tour tournament.

 

If 12 over is the target, on any kind of good day, a scratch could make a few birdies on Augusta between 2, 3, 8, 13, 15. These 5 holes averaged under their par during this year's tournament. As long as you don't Sergio it on 15, get through those holes in Even par, and you only need to beat a bogey average on the rest of the holes to break 85.

 

Harry Ellis was the only player in the field to fail to break 85 during this Masters. But that came from trying to shoot in the 60s/low 70s. If he knew he just had to break 85, would he go for it in 2 on 13 and double bogey? Or would he play it safe and play for par? Much of Augusta is risk/reward, but if you're trying to beat 85, you're not necessarily taking on risks.

I guess that makes Mr Guan about a +10 or so. Gotta fit the narrative....

 

Guan Tianlang played many practice rounds at ANGC before Masters week and played with quite a few former champions, including Ben Crenshaw and Tiger Woods before the tournament proper. I am certain he learned where he could hit and where not to as well as learn to read and putt the greens. That in itself disqualified Guan from the criteria set forth by the OP. I am certain Guan was a + handicapped player before his Masters appearance. He became the youngest player to win on the China Amateur Futures Tour (2010) and the China Amateur Tour (2011), he won the Boys 11-12 division at the 2011 Callaway Junior World Golf Championships in San Diego by 11 strokes. At age 13 years and 173 days, he became the youngest player to compete on the European Tour at the 2012 Volvo China Open. He won the 2012 Asia-Pacific Amateur Championship just after he turned 14. This was the win that earned him automatic qualification to the 2013 Masters Tournament.

 

So to compare Guan to our hypothetical scratch is as ludicrous as this thread has become.

Is that what I wrote? What an odd reply. So Guan is only a +8 or so because he had practice?

Let's call him a +5 per so. Seem fair? So a 14 year old +5 can average 75 during the tournament ( on my phone or I would bold that last bit) and a platoon of scratch golfers could never ever ever ever sniff 85?

 

I would agree it's less than as given. I would also agree than a singular attempt is only about 20% likely.

 

But that also means 20 of 100 singular attempts likely would break 85. There are no clowns mouths or windmills guys. It's just a golf course. Not saying it's an easy one but it's still just golf. The scratch that understands that can shoot within 7 strokes of his cap in one attempt.

 

No, the ridiculousness of the original criteria is the premise of this comment, as well as almost all my comments. Most comments say a scratch can break 85 at ANGC but fail to either recognize the original criteria or simply don't realize them. To bring comparisons of amateur players playing in the Masters scoring better than 85 is irrelevant because every amateur player playing in any Masters has had practice rounds there and with a caddie. These amateur players have learned many of the nuances of ANGC. The scratch in this hypothetical thread doesn't receive this luxury which is the premise of my position as well as several others. Yes, it is just a golf course but it is unlike many any of us have ever played. It is hillier than perceived from TV. It is more undulating. There are more non-flat lies than TV makes it seem. The greens are more undulating than what it appears on TV. There are definitely sections of the green that will lead to disaster than it appears watching 2D. No, there are no clown's mouth or windmills but ANGC isn't the general run of the mill muny or country club either.

 

I am not saying a scratch golfer cannot score 85 or under at ANGC. From members tees I definitely can believe many could. From Masters tournament tees, non tournament conditions, sure. From Masters tournament tees and tournament condition there is a possibility outside the original criteria.

 

We have seen many posts of people scoring under 85 but none was done under the original criteria. I firmly believe that this is a virtual impossibility due to the demanding shot placement ANGC requires during Masters tournament rounds, specifically Sunday conditions. This year the conditions were the most benign they have been in years due to the rain on Saturday. Have 4 days of sun, wind and temperatures in the upper 70s to mid 80s then Sunday tournament conditions would be a bear. Can a scratch golfer handle those when considering the physical requirements of carrying their own bag for 7,500+ yards on a hilly golf course, the demands on very accurate shot placement, the mental strain when near miss shots produce an undesirable outcome, the inevitable putt off the green and few 3 putts, etc, etc, etc?

 

Remember,

... Stipulations are no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees. ...

 

Anything other than this criteria is not the same scenario. That's been my point through out this thread.

[Shilgy]

^^ In other words am attempt will never happen. Tournament conditions, back tees are rare enough. No caddie either?

 

What is the point of continuing this thread if we cannot discuss hypotheticals? The parameters are not gonna happen.

 

PS yes Guan had the advantage of a caddie and practice rounds. Imo that is way more than offset by the added pressure off playing in the tournament proper which is not part of the op challenge.

[Obee]

^^ In other words am attempt will never happen. Tournament conditions, back tees are rare enough. No caddie either?

 

What is the point of continuing this thread if we cannot discuss hypotheticals? The parameters are not gonna happen.

 

PS yes Guan had the advantage of a caddie and practice rounds. Imo that is way more than offset by the added pressure off playing in the tournament proper which is not part of the op challenge.

 

Yes, I have been ignoring the original conditions for months now. LOL

 

They make zero sense. The no caddie part especially. Why even include that? Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?

 

 

[straightshot7]

^^ In other words am attempt will never happen. Tournament conditions, back tees are rare enough. No caddie either?

 

What is the point of continuing this thread if we cannot discuss hypotheticals? The parameters are not gonna happen.

 

PS yes Guan had the advantage of a caddie and practice rounds. Imo that is way more than offset by the added pressure off playing in the tournament proper which is not part of the op challenge.

 

Yes, I have been ignoring the original conditions for months now. LOL

 

They make zero sense. The no caddie part especially. Why even include that? Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?

 

Oh, how convenient. Thanks for letting us know. The "no caddy" part was to put the player in a position of having no advanced course knowledge/experience.

[Obee]

^^ In other words am attempt will never happen. Tournament conditions, back tees are rare enough. No caddie either?

 

What is the point of continuing this thread if we cannot discuss hypotheticals? The parameters are not gonna happen.

 

PS yes Guan had the advantage of a caddie and practice rounds. Imo that is way more than offset by the added pressure off playing in the tournament proper which is not part of the op challenge.

 

Yes, I have been ignoring the original conditions for months now. LOL

 

They make zero sense. The no caddie part especially. Why even include that? Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?

 

Oh, how convenient. Thanks for letting us know. The "no caddy" part was to put the player in a position of having no advanced course knowledge/experience.

 

And I also mentioned it months ago.

 

But caddies, while helpful, are only marginally so. As one poster so succinctly put it a while back, There is literally no course on earth is as well-known as Augusta. All one has to do is watch broadcasts from the last few years and you will literally see virtually every conceivable putt to every pin, along with expert advice from the very best players in the world who have ever played the course on how to play every single hole. It would be like having the perfect yardage book.

 

You still have to go out there and execute, of course, but you have to do that, caddie or no.

[straightshot7]

^^ In other words am attempt will never happen. Tournament conditions, back tees are rare enough. No caddie either?

 

What is the point of continuing this thread if we cannot discuss hypotheticals? The parameters are not gonna happen.

 

PS yes Guan had the advantage of a caddie and practice rounds. Imo that is way more than offset by the added pressure off playing in the tournament proper which is not part of the op challenge.

 

Yes, I have been ignoring the original conditions for months now. LOL

 

They make zero sense. The no caddie part especially. Why even include that? Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?

 

Oh, how convenient. Thanks for letting us know. The "no caddy" part was to put the player in a position of having no advanced course knowledge/experience.

 

And I also mentioned it months ago.

 

But caddies, while helpful, are only marginally so. As one poster so succinctly put it a while back, There is literally no course on earth is as well-known as Augusta. All one has to do is watch broadcasts from the last few years and you will literally see virtually every conceivable putt to every pin, along with expert advice from the very best players in the world who have ever played the course on how to play every single hole. It would be like having the perfect yardage book.

 

You still have to go out there and execute, of course, but you have to do that, caddie or no.

 

Then why do you insist on removing that from the original criteria?

 

You just said "Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?"

 

that statement sort of contradicts your last post.

 

on one hand you're saying a caddie doesn't matter, but on the other it does?

[Obee]

^^ In other words am attempt will never happen. Tournament conditions, back tees are rare enough. No caddie either?

 

What is the point of continuing this thread if we cannot discuss hypotheticals? The parameters are not gonna happen.

 

PS yes Guan had the advantage of a caddie and practice rounds. Imo that is way more than offset by the added pressure off playing in the tournament proper which is not part of the op challenge.

 

Yes, I have been ignoring the original conditions for months now. LOL

 

They make zero sense. The no caddie part especially. Why even include that? Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?

 

Oh, how convenient. Thanks for letting us know. The "no caddy" part was to put the player in a position of having no advanced course knowledge/experience.

 

And I also mentioned it months ago.

 

But caddies, while helpful, are only marginally so. As one poster so succinctly put it a while back, There is literally no course on earth is as well-known as Augusta. All one has to do is watch broadcasts from the last few years and you will literally see virtually every conceivable putt to every pin, along with expert advice from the very best players in the world who have ever played the course on how to play every single hole. It would be like having the perfect yardage book.

 

You still have to go out there and execute, of course, but you have to do that, caddie or no.

 

Then why do you insist on removing that from the original criteria?

 

You just said "Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?"

 

that statement sort of contradicts your last post.

 

on one hand you're saying a caddie doesn't matter, but on the other it does?

 

It matters a bit.

 

Lonnnnnng thread!! LOL!!

[copperjeff]

Right...

 

So a scratch golfer is really good. It is expected that a scratch golfer can score the course rating on any USGA rated course.

 

Additionally, it is expected that anyone beats his/her course handicap about 20% of the time.

 

Ill accept Augusta being rated 78, ill also accept the original conditions could potentially add several strokes to the expected score. So do the original conditions make a 7 shot difference in score? Heck, ill buy that argument too!

 

That still leaves us with a virtual rating of 85 based on stipulations, and we expect a scratch to be that rating 20% of the time.

 

So given the original premise my answer is yes a scratch can, and will break 85 and will do so with some regularity. However I would expect them to shoot over 85 the majority of the time.

[lowheel]

^^ In other words am attempt will never happen. Tournament conditions, back tees are rare enough. No caddie either?

 

What is the point of continuing this thread if we cannot discuss hypotheticals? The parameters are not gonna happen.

 

PS yes Guan had the advantage of a caddie and practice rounds. Imo that is way more than offset by the added pressure off playing in the tournament proper which is not part of the op challenge.

 

Yes, I have been ignoring the original conditions for months now. LOL

 

They make zero sense. The no caddie part especially. Why even include that? Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?

 

Thats the problem, this hypothetical has specfic conditions and stipulations based on bar talk from the OPs friend.75% of the people in here havent read those and ignore them like you have.This is where were at. its all anecdotal evidence.You asked several of your friends who are pros and have played a few masters and so have I. I was chatting with a champions tour pro recently who has played in 8 masters and pointed him to this thread. He thought under the conditions stipulated it was a sucker bet to get it done. See more anecdotal evidence. The OPs friend is full of it obviously but the hypothetical proposed is what it is. you cant change the rules mid stream. Create a different thread with all your suggestions and ill gladly participate and perhaps my stance will change based on your conditions. Obee since youve never been down there, i would love watching you try to navigate #1 hitting it 255-260 off the tee! ;)

[Mcgeeno]

Lay it up short of the corner and take your five on number one?

 

We aren’t talking about breaking 75 here.

 

You think #1 at Augusta is the first long dog leg par four Obee has ever seen lol? Do you know where he plays most days of the week?

 

Chances are he gets it up and down with a spinner wedge close to half the time.

 

1-2 birdies, 10 bogeys and a couple doubles gets it done. Get real.

 

 

[TheCityGame]

The average scratch never plays more than a blue diamond. And they play it repeatedly.

 

You think if they were never allowed to play the same course twice that their handicap wouldn't be higher?

 

So factor that in as well. They play the same easy courses (compared to Augusta), made easier by repeated play.

Seriously?

 

The average scratch?

 

Because ALL of the low guys I know have been up to Bethpage and/or down to Pinehurst. They've golfed long enough (again, I'm talking about scratch golfers, not your average 18 capper) to know enough people and have played -- of the top of my head -- Merion, Congressional, Caves Valley, Robert Trent Jones, TPC Avenal/Potomac, Aronomink. They've traveled and played Torrey Pines or Pebble. I know a bunch of guys who have played Chambers, Whistling Straights, Erin Hills. That's to say nothing of an assortment of Tillinghast, Ross, Flynn courses. Courses like Bulle Rock (which used to hold an LPGA major) and Baltimore CC (which holds/held a senior event).

 

As a matter of fact I don't know ANY golfers who are at -- or have been at -- scratch who haven't played at least a few courses I just listed.

 

Not to mention -- there are a ton of courses around here -- high end Daily Fee and municipal, some that hold US Open qualifiers that can play over 7300 yards (and tons more in the 7000+ range.) And that's what these guys play.

 

Your "average scratch" who got there playing some 6500 par 72 is the fictional character here. And even if that's all he did, I bet he has game.

 

So we're supposed to believe that your personal experience accounts for the entire country of scratches?

 

How many scratches have you interacted/played with? 50? 100?

 

What if I told you my experience is the exact opposite? Where does that leave us?

 

I have met dozens of "scratches" who fit my description.

 

Maybe I am wrong and that your depiction of a scratch is closer to the "average". But I do know that the one I described exists. And there is a chance one of those guys is our Augusta contestant.

 

I'll give you one specific example---my very good friend who I played golf with hundreds of times at our home course. He had a +5.8 handicap at the time.

 

He had a beautiful swing and all of the tools of a top player. The course we played was a par 70 and 6,600 yards from the back tees. I think the rating was 71 or 72 but it became extremely easy when you played it over and over. We knew every place to miss and we knew the greens inside and out.

 

Guess what happened when my friend played in tournaments? He shot 74-76. His game didn't travel. He never shot over 68 at our home course, but never under 74 in tournaments.

 

I refuse to believe that there aren't a lot of other golfers out there like that.

You shouldn't believe it because there aren't. There are literally NO GOLFERS in the ENTIRE UNITED STATES that are carrying a +5.8 index and got there by just just noodling around their home course and knowing the lines and the putts.

 

Zero chance. Your course is either insanely poorly rated, or you're making things up, or your friend is the biggest vanity capper in the entire United States. He had a handicap that is lower than that of many professionals who keep one (Phil Mickelson famously keeps one and it's +6.0 right now.). It's lower than probably everyone on the web.com tour, if they even keep one. There's zero chance there's a legit +5.8 out there who hasn't played SERIOUS golf at real courses at a high level.

[isaacbm]

^^ In other words am attempt will never happen. Tournament conditions, back tees are rare enough. No caddie either?

 

What is the point of continuing this thread if we cannot discuss hypotheticals? The parameters are not gonna happen.

 

PS yes Guan had the advantage of a caddie and practice rounds. Imo that is way more than offset by the added pressure off playing in the tournament proper which is not part of the op challenge.

 

Yes, I have been ignoring the original conditions for months now. LOL

 

They make zero sense. The no caddie part especially. Why even include that? Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?

 

Thats the problem, this hypothetical has specfic conditions and stipulations based on bar talk from the OPs friend.75% of the people in here havent read those and ignore them like you have.This is where were at. its all anecdotal evidence.You asked several of your friends who are pros and have played a few masters and so have I. I was chatting with a champions tour pro recently who has played in 8 masters and pointed him to this thread. He thought under the conditions stipulated it was a sucker bet to get it done. See more anecdotal evidence. The OPs friend is full of it obviously but the hypothetical proposed is what it is. you cant change the rules mid stream. Create a different thread with all your suggestions and ill gladly participate and perhaps my stance will change based on your conditions. Obee since youve never been down there, i would love watching you try to navigate #1 hitting it 255-260 off the tee! ;)

Number 1 is possibly one of the easier holes for this challenge. It’s just a really short par 5 with no water.... ;)

[RobotDoctor]

^^ In other words am attempt will never happen. Tournament conditions, back tees are rare enough. No caddie either?

 

What is the point of continuing this thread if we cannot discuss hypotheticals? The parameters are not gonna happen.

 

PS yes Guan had the advantage of a caddie and practice rounds. Imo that is way more than offset by the added pressure off playing in the tournament proper which is not part of the op challenge.

K

Yes, I have been ignoring the original conditions for months now. LOL

 

They make zero sense. The no caddie part especially. Why even include that? Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?

 

ABSOLUTELY!!!! I'm in complete agreement here!!!

[RobotDoctor]

Of course this is GolfWRX where nearly everyone drives the and carries it over 300 yards and hits 175 yard wedges and putts 23 putts in a round. It's true!!! I've read many testimonials over the years. Sunday Masters tournament conditions from tournament tees ..... pfftt! Who even needs to warm up? I got the newest magic wand with the kahooey kahooey Unicorn shaft and super grippy grips, with 4 layers wrap on the top hand and 8 layers wrap under the lower hand to thwart off my duck hook. I got a couple of 2 box sets of Kirkland Signature 4 piece balls to play with as well. Yeah, Augusta National is mine for the taking. BRING IT!!!!

[Shilgy]

^^ In other words am attempt will never happen. Tournament conditions, back tees are rare enough. No caddie either?

 

What is the point of continuing this thread if we cannot discuss hypotheticals? The parameters are not gonna happen.

 

PS yes Guan had the advantage of a caddie and practice rounds. Imo that is way more than offset by the added pressure off playing in the tournament proper which is not part of the op challenge.

 

Yes, I have been ignoring the original conditions for months now. LOL

 

They make zero sense. The no caddie part especially. Why even include that? Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?

 

Thats the problem, this hypothetical has specfic conditions and stipulations based on bar talk from the OPs friend.75% of the people in here havent read those and ignore them like you have.This is where were at. its all anecdotal evidence.You asked several of your friends who are pros and have played a few masters and so have I. I was chatting with a champions tour pro recently who has played in 8 masters and pointed him to this thread. He thought under the conditions stipulated it was a sucker bet to get it done. See more anecdotal evidence. The OPs friend is full of it obviously but the hypothetical proposed is what it is. you cant change the rules mid stream. Create a different thread with all your suggestions and ill gladly participate and perhaps my stance will change based on your conditions. Obee since youve never been down there, i would love watching you try to navigate #1 hitting it 255-260 off the tee! ;)

Number 1 is possibly one of the easier holes for this challenge. It’s just a really short par 5 with no water.... ;)

If Obee(for the sake of discussion) bogey's every hole it's 90. Par the par 5's and it's 86. Par 3 and any other short par 4 and it is a bet winning 84.

[RobotDoctor]

^^ In other words am attempt will never happen. Tournament conditions, back tees are rare enough. No caddie either?

 

What is the point of continuing this thread if we cannot discuss hypotheticals? The parameters are not gonna happen.

 

PS yes Guan had the advantage of a caddie and practice rounds. Imo that is way more than offset by the added pressure off playing in the tournament proper which is not part of the op challenge.

 

Yes, I have been ignoring the original conditions for months now. LOL

 

They make zero sense. The no caddie part especially. Why even include that? Everyone gets a caddy at Augusta if they want one. Why make it harder for a hypothetical scratch amateur than it is for anyone else who Has ever played there?

 

Thats the problem, this hypothetical has specfic conditions and stipulations based on bar talk from the OPs friend.75% of the people in here havent read those and ignore them like you have.This is where were at. its all anecdotal evidence.You asked several of your friends who are pros and have played a few masters and so have I. I was chatting with a champions tour pro recently who has played in 8 masters and pointed him to this thread. He thought under the conditions stipulated it was a sucker bet to get it done. See more anecdotal evidence. The OPs friend is full of it obviously but the hypothetical proposed is what it is. you cant change the rules mid stream. Create a different thread with all your suggestions and ill gladly participate and perhaps my stance will change based on your conditions. Obee since youve never been down there, i would love watching you try to navigate #1 hitting it 255-260 off the tee! ;)

Number 1 is possibly one of the easier holes for this challenge. It’s just a really short par 5 with no water.... ;)

If Obee(for the sake of discussion) bogey's every hole it's 90. Par the par 5's and it's 86. Par 3 and any other short par 4 and it is a bet winning 84.

 

So Obee has no chance for a double bogey or worse on any hole? What does he know that many Masters competitors, including past champions, don't? This is not a knock on Obee's abilities but a reference to the realities of Golf.

[Shilgy]

So Obee has no chance for a double bogey or worse on any hole? What does he know that many Masters competitors, including past champions, don't? This is not a knock on Obee's abilities but a reference to the realities of Golf.

I understand what you are saying. But... a veteran scratch that understands the parameters of the bet is much less likely to mess up a hole. Every hole-just about- is a play for bogey hole hole. Certainly takes the big numbers out of play.

Your reference to Masters competitors is to my point. They are trying to score as low as possible-not just break 85. And Augusta is definitely a course that will punish the stray overly ambitious shot.

[RobotDoctor]

The quickest path for a monster score is to get cocky or underestimate the challenge at hand. Underestimate ANGC and I am sure the results will quickly destroy a score. All good courses will do that.

[deadsolid...shank]

Of course this is GolfWRX where nearly everyone drives the and carries it over 300 yards and hits 175 yard wedges and putts 23 putts in a round. It's true!!! I've read many testimonials over the years. Sunday Masters tournament conditions from tournament tees ..... pfftt! Who even needs to warm up? I got the newest magic wand with the kahooey kahooey Unicorn shaft and super grippy grips, with 4 layers wrap on the top hand and 8 layers wrap under the lower hand to thwart off my duck hook. I got a couple of 2 box sets of Kirkland Signature 4 piece balls to play with as well. Yeah, Augusta National is mine for the taking. BRING IT!!!!

 

That's the biggest myth on this entire board.

 

You'll read 10 posts of people saying they hit it 250 for every post of someone saying 300.

 

And the majority that do say they hit it 300, I for one believe most of them.

[RobotDoctor]

Of course this is GolfWRX where nearly everyone drives the and carries it over 300 yards and hits 175 yard wedges and putts 23 putts in a round. It's true!!! I've read many testimonials over the years. Sunday Masters tournament conditions from tournament tees ..... pfftt! Who even needs to warm up? I got the newest magic wand with the kahooey kahooey Unicorn shaft and super grippy grips, with 4 layers wrap on the top hand and 8 layers wrap under the lower hand to thwart off my duck hook. I got a couple of 2 box sets of Kirkland Signature 4 piece balls to play with as well. Yeah, Augusta National is mine for the taking. BRING IT!!!!

 

That's the biggest myth on this entire board.

 

You'll read 10 posts of people saying they hit it 250 for every post of someone saying 300.

 

And the majority that do say they hit it 300, I for one believe most of them.

 

You realize my post was meant as tongue and cheek, humor, yes?

[wmblake2000]

With the new Women's National Amateur being held at Augusta, we will have a better idea of how "normal" people would fair on Augusta. They won't play from the tournament tees, probably the member tees, and they won't have them quite as slick as the Masters, but top female Ams compare favorably to unranked men IMHO (i.e. scratch male golfers who primarily play at their own course). So should be interesting to see what the winning scores are next year.

 

I was thinking about this, too. But I was also wondering if the greens will be slowed down for them - can they turn them around for Masters speed in 4 days? I guess so but I don’t know if they have to ease into that for the sake of grass health.

[deadsolid...shank]

Of course this is GolfWRX where nearly everyone drives the and carries it over 300 yards and hits 175 yard wedges and putts 23 putts in a round. It's true!!! I've read many testimonials over the years. Sunday Masters tournament conditions from tournament tees ..... pfftt! Who even needs to warm up? I got the newest magic wand with the kahooey kahooey Unicorn shaft and super grippy grips, with 4 layers wrap on the top hand and 8 layers wrap under the lower hand to thwart off my duck hook. I got a couple of 2 box sets of Kirkland Signature 4 piece balls to play with as well. Yeah, Augusta National is mine for the taking. BRING IT!!!!

 

That's the biggest myth on this entire board.

 

You'll read 10 posts of people saying they hit it 250 for every post of someone saying 300.

 

And the majority that do say they hit it 300, I for one believe most of them.

 

You realize my post was meant as tongue and cheek, humor, yes?

 

Sorry, I'm a little slow this morning!

[RobotDoctor]

Of course this is GolfWRX where nearly everyone drives the and carries it over 300 yards and hits 175 yard wedges and putts 23 putts in a round. It's true!!! I've read many testimonials over the years. Sunday Masters tournament conditions from tournament tees ..... pfftt! Who even needs to warm up? I got the newest magic wand with the kahooey kahooey Unicorn shaft and super grippy grips, with 4 layers wrap on the top hand and 8 layers wrap under the lower hand to thwart off my duck hook. I got a couple of 2 box sets of Kirkland Signature 4 piece balls to play with as well. Yeah, Augusta National is mine for the taking. BRING IT!!!!

 

That's the biggest myth on this entire board.

 

You'll read 10 posts of people saying they hit it 250 for every post of someone saying 300.

 

And the majority that do say they hit it 300, I for one believe most of them.

 

You realize my post was meant as tongue and cheek, humor, yes?

 

Sorry, I'm a little slow this morning!

 

No worries. We all have mornings like that. That's why Coffee was created. I need a big cup!!! :D

[Roadking2003]

The CNN golf guy Shane O'Donoghue said he shot 81 at Augusta yesterday, as the press get to play the day afterwards. He's nowhere near scratch as far as I know. Know another media guy playing off 4 or 5 that shot better than 80.

 

Would be tournament conditions more or less. The big difference would be back tees and the pressure of playing in front of crowds. But a relatively long competitive scratch player should be able to deal with that.

 

No, not even close. I doubt they put the greens back to tournament speeds. And over 1000 yards shorter makes a huge difference.

[Roadking2003]

If Obee(for the sake of discussion) bogey's every hole it's 90. Par the par 5's and it's 86. Par 3 and any other short par 4 and it is a bet winning 84.

 

Or more likely, Obee makes double bogey on four, then triple after four putting #9. Then hits into the water on #11 and #12 and makes doubles there...... etc.

 

The odds that Obee would avoid a four putt are quite small.

[RobotDoctor]

If Obee(for the sake of discussion) bogey's every hole it's 90. Par the par 5's and it's 86. Par 3 and any other short par 4 and it is a bet winning 84.

 

Or more likely, Obee makes double bogey on four, then triple after four putting #9. Then hits into the water on #11 and #12 and makes doubles there...... etc.

 

The odds that Obee would avoid a four putt are quite small.

 

Putting would be key. To pacify those who wish to bring other courses into the discussion, I just had a round at Torrey Pines South where I had 25 putts for the round. I shot 80 from 6,700 yards without ever seeing the course and about 40 minutes warmup (hitting off mats). While the course was not set up like it would be in a US Open nor were the greens as fast, I didn't find them too difficult. They were much like the greens on my home course from grass, slope and undulation. The greens were rolling around 9 and I had no issues. Take my home course and how they set up the greens for the first round of US Open qualifying when they roll around 11-12 then we're talking a whole different challenge. If Torrey Pines South were at US Open conditions (most likely the same speed as my home course or just a bit more like 12-12.5) 25 putts could easily turn into 35 putts or more. ANGC is definitely like that. I know everyone here is an outstanding putter of the ball but the reality is each course and under certain conditions pose difficulty that mere speculation isn't going to resolve.

[Bye]

I just can't see how anyone could get round there in those conditions on their first go without making a double. Or for that matter without having at least one very big number.

 

 

[DFS PFD]

I play to a true 1-2 every where I go (I understand that's not scratch), and I doubt I (or anyone I play with that's scratch) could break 100 my first round there with tournament conditions. The greens and approaches into them alone could undo any chance at 85 with the extreme undulations and speed. (Looking at you Sergio)

[BNGL]

With the new Women's National Amateur being held at Augusta, we will have a better idea of how "normal" people would fair on Augusta. They won't play from the tournament tees, probably the member tees, and they won't have them quite as slick as the Masters, but top female Ams compare favorably to unranked men IMHO (i.e. scratch male golfers who primarily play at their own course). So should be interesting to see what the winning scores are next year.

 

I was thinking about this, too. But I was also wondering if the greens will be slowed down for them - can they turn them around for Masters speed in 4 days? I guess so but I don’t know if they have to ease into that for the sake of grass health.

 

Absolutely they can, could change them day to day if they wanted. Green speeds at ANGC aren't as consistent as many people think, yes they're quick but it's not uncommon to see 12-15 on the same day. (Intentionally inconsistent greens on same days). Reasoning is some of the greens complexes are so severe. If 12 was rolling 15 balls would roll straight back into Rae's Creek.