Grow the Game vs Fan yelling

[mjen43]

Growing the game and allowing idiots to get plastered and yell stupidities and insults at the players at PGA events have nothing to do each other.

 

Explain why. Idiots can get drunk and yell stupidities anywhere they want. They choose to do it at golf tournaments though because they are involved with the game. Since this behavior is diametrically opposed to the foundation of the game, they are clearly extremely casual fans/participants of the game and have no respect for the principles of the game. How does a niche sport such as golf reach people so disrespectful to the foundation of the game? The only explanation is too much growth reaching too many people. Yelling is just a symptom of inviting your average joe blow sports fan into an arena he was never supposed to be in.

[Benkross]

The game has grown too quickly. Not enough people understand etiquette. Money has nothing to do with it. It's about class and respecting your fellow competitors enough to replace your divots, rake your traps, fix your pitch marks, know how to properly tend a pin. These are all things that need to be taught. Scotland has it right. They don't just let anyone onto the old course.

[MadGolfer76]

If you want to grow the game, wouldn't you want to keep junior golfers from being exposed to profanity and drunken fools when they attend tour events?

[manku]

Being a spectator at a golf event is very intimate compared to other sports...you're basically on the field, with only a thin, waist high string separating you and the player...often times you're closer to the player than to your buddies in your weekend foursome.

 

Maybe it's because I'm not confrontational, but I can't imagine spewing expletives and insults in such close proximity...and I can tell you that I'm not friends with anyone who would either.

 

Now yelling insults from the bleachers at an MLB game is a different story altogether!

[MtlJeff]

Being well mannered and polite isn't "traditionalist" and/or confined to old people. At least I hope it's not. If it is, we are all in trouble.

 

Hey Sean,

 

i hope you know that when i write "old" i just mean people who identify only with the notion of what "traditional" is in a journalistic sense and what that embodies. IE that any kind of progress is "bad"

 

I have no issues with people being polite and respectful, and think that is something we should all preach.

 

I didn't mean for my comment to offend anyone who is older, certainly least of all, folks like you who represent everything great about golf

 

cheers my friend!

[MadGolfer76]

Say bababoooey again and theyll find you stuffed in the porto john with busted knee caps. Punk.

 

 

I bet he could bruise a kneecap like no one's business. :rofl:

[bscinstnct]

Im not against bababooey or anything.

 

But

 

If you are older that 18.5

 

And you yell bababooey, mashed potatatoes, or anything similar

 

It is clear that you have at least a combination of 2 of the following...

 

1. No life

 

2. No job

 

3. "parents" who drank smirnoff for breakfast and put it in your Cheerios

 

4. No woman (or if you do, she has poor hygiene)

 

; )

[TollBros]

The game has grown too quickly. Not enough people understand etiquette. Money has nothing to do with it. It's about class and respecting your fellow competitors enough to replace your divots, rake your traps, fix your pitch marks, know how to properly tend a pin. These are all things that need to be taught. Scotland has it right. They don't just let anyone onto the old course.

 

I think some people confusing growing the game with, getting anyone and everyone out on the golf course. I consider those two things directly contradictory with each other. Growing the game to me is teaching new players the rules, etiquette, traditions, and spirit of the game. Guys who simply want to go buy some used clubs, get drunk and hack it up because they see Tiger on tv isn't growing the game. It's off putting to new and avid players, and makes people not want to go to that course, or at that time of the week at all. These people will never be avid players, and they ruin the time on the course for serious new players and avid players alike, aka the core and future core of the game's economics. And I agree with you 100% that every and I mean EVERY player should be required to take an etiquette and rules class and prove they can at least play double bogey golf before setting foot on an actual 18 hole golf course. If you can't do those things, stay on the driving range, par 3 9 hole course, or Top Golf hooting and hollering to like minded people who also can't break 120 and have no respect for the game.

[bladehunter]

I'd rather grow the game with people who respect and uphold the traditions of the game. Fans yelling and cheering are great for the sport, but not the obnoxious ones who have been born out of the Wasted Management Open--sure, have that one event out of the year, but leave that type of overly intoxicated fan out of the rest of the year's tourneys.

 

There's nothing worse than getting paired up with new fans of the sport and being asked: "Hey, you mind if I play some music?"

 

 

 

totally agree...They can listen to Free Bird on their own time.... just weird to hear Lil Kim blaring on the tee box when im trying to decide on what line to take ( true story)....

[bladehunter]

The game has grown too quickly. Not enough people understand etiquette. Money has nothing to do with it. It's about class and respecting your fellow competitors enough to replace your divots, rake your traps, fix your pitch marks, know how to properly tend a pin. These are all things that need to be taught. Scotland has it right. They don't just let anyone onto the old course.

 

I think some people confusing growing the game with, getting anyone and everyone out on the golf course. I consider those two things directly contradictory with each other. Growing the game to me is teaching new players the rules, etiquette, traditions, and spirit of the game. Guys who simply want to go buy some used clubs, get drunk and hack it up because they see Tiger on tv isn't growing the game. It's off putting to new and avid players, and makes people not want to go to that course, or at that time of the week at all. These people will never be avid players, and they ruin the time on the course for serious new players and avid players alike, aka the core and future core of the game's economics. And I agree with you 100% that every and I mean EVERY player should be required to take an etiquette and rules class and prove they can at least play double bogey golf before setting foot on an actual 18 hole golf course. If you can't do those things, stay on the driving range, par 3 9 hole course, or Top Golf hooting and hollering to like minded people who also can't break 120 and have no respect for the game.

 

 

 

dont you think the game grows organically as it always has? the "grow the game" that is on TV commercials is for getting as many "butts in seats" as they can cram..... and we will change the rules to suit them if need be ( see recent rules).. ..sell them as much beer as it takes to tolerate golf and generally bastardize what we have to , to get more $

[oikos1]

"Personally, as a traditionalist/elitist"

 

What does that even mean? I could venture a guess but let's just say that the game has grown "socially" in the last century. No need to worry though, the traditional/elitist clubs will never let cargo shorts, music and beer coolers rapidly deteriorate your moral conduct on the course.

 

It means I believe in the traditions of the sport and recognize that if you invite the average degenerate casual into the game, they will devolve the venture into a format that they are easily able to consume i.e. yelling and rooting against players while getting drunk in public and acting like a total ****

 

You seem to have a different opinion in another thread:

 

Posted Today, 02:45 AM

What a new and exciting topic of discussion. Yelling has been going on for what, nearly 15 years now? Maybe all the complainers should find a new hobby.

 

Edited by mjen43, Today, 02:46 AM.

 

Who gave you the right to determine what is and isn't "ill-mannered"? Cheering after the ball is struck impacts nothing and has been going on for ages now. The baby boomer tour officials, who are in charge and create tour policy, have deemed it to be acceptable, and it has become a modern tradition of the sport. I think its "ill-mannered" that you have to resort to calling me names, instead of providing a logical counterargument. Such is often a sign that you are incapable of doing so.

Edited by mjen43, Today, 11:42 AM.

 

I don't see the different opinions here? Yelling has no impact on play, officials have deemed it acceptable, it is a modern tradition, yell complainers are getting old and tired, I believe yellers are acting in a manner outside of what used to be acceptable in golf, and yellers have only come around after attempts to grow the game. Where are the inconsistencies?

What is a "yell complainer"? Actually, never mind. You lost me at traditional/elitist.

[TollBros]

The game has grown too quickly. Not enough people understand etiquette. Money has nothing to do with it. It's about class and respecting your fellow competitors enough to replace your divots, rake your traps, fix your pitch marks, know how to properly tend a pin. These are all things that need to be taught. Scotland has it right. They don't just let anyone onto the old course.

 

I think some people confusing growing the game with, getting anyone and everyone out on the golf course. I consider those two things directly contradictory with each other. Growing the game to me is teaching new players the rules, etiquette, traditions, and spirit of the game. Guys who simply want to go buy some used clubs, get drunk and hack it up because they see Tiger on tv isn't growing the game. It's off putting to new and avid players, and makes people not want to go to that course, or at that time of the week at all. These people will never be avid players, and they ruin the time on the course for serious new players and avid players alike, aka the core and future core of the game's economics. And I agree with you 100% that every and I mean EVERY player should be required to take an etiquette and rules class and prove they can at least play double bogey golf before setting foot on an actual 18 hole golf course. If you can't do those things, stay on the driving range, par 3 9 hole course, or Top Golf hooting and hollering to like minded people who also can't break 120 and have no respect for the game.

 

 

 

dont you think the game grows organically as it always has? the "grow the game" that is on TV commercials is for getting as many "butts in seats" as they can cram..... and we will change the rules to suit them if need be ( see recent rules).. ..sell them as much beer as it takes to tolerate golf and generally bastardize what we have to , to get more $

 

My idea of growing the game so to speak, is teaching kids the right way to enjoy our great game. With respect, honesty, and following the rules. I'd prefer that my contributions to the growth of the game be positive, life long players who appreciate all the game has to offer.

[cliche]

question for those who attended a PGA tournament

 

have you ever stud on a tee, the player that you are watching is hitting is driver on a par 5, and the person next to you is yelling "get in the hole" or "mashed potatoes" on the top of his lungs. have you turned to that person and asked him/her, what a idiotic thing to do that was?

[MarkFromTheUK]

Equip the marshalls with tasers. Problem solved.

[ghoul31]

At football games, do people sit there quietly , and just clap quietly when there team scores a touchdown?

Of course not. why should golf be different?

[MarkFromTheUK]

At football games, do people sit there quietly , and just clap quietly when there team scores a touchdown?

Of course not. why should golf be different?

 

Ridiculous comparison. You’re supposed to be quiet during the shot. The yells are usually after the shot. However, there’s more than one golfer on the course during a tournament, and usually a few in the vicinity of where the idiotic shout originated. If the shout aimed at another golfer was heard at the top of the backswing of another competitor, then it’s directly interfering with play.

[bladehunter]

At football games, do people sit there quietly , and just clap quietly when there team scores a touchdown?

Of course not. why should golf be different?

 

Because it isnt football. The creatins watch football. It’s a way to appease them and get them to go back to the labor camps on Monday morning. So they can afford to pay for the next football ticket.

 

Seriously though. No comparison. Golf isn’t a yelling sport. It just isn’t. Neither is gymnastics. Swimming , horse jumping. Can you imagine if idiots yelled and blew air horns at the horses ? I mean by your logic we can compare a rock concert to Sunday morning church , after all they are both gatherings of people. Pretty sure you won’t yell obscenities in church more than once without being tackled ( at least not in the south ).

[KennyP]

Behaviour in society is in decline, so I don't think we should be surprised when some of this permeates onto the golf course. That doesn't make it right, nor does it mean the game shouldn't be doing something to police it.

As far as growing the game goes, I do worry about the sort of people who are attracted to the game by the virtue of being allowed to behave in a boisterous (or loutish) way. Golf as a participation sport is rare, but not unique, in the fact that we are trusted to uphold the rules ourselves. There is no referee in your monthly medal to see if you take a legal drop, or whether you leave the bunker in the condition you found it, or whether you use a foot wedge when your playing partners are looking in the other direction. You are expected to behave in a manner that is considerate to you playing partners and fellow competitors. It follows, therefore, that someone who chooses to yell “Bababoey!” at a tour event because that’s what they want to do are likely to show the same disregard for the playing etiquette as they do when spectating.

[ghoul31]

At football games, do people sit there quietly , and just clap quietly when there team scores a touchdown?

Of course not. why should golf be different?

 

Because it isnt football. The creatins watch football. It's a way to appease them and get them to go back to the labor camps on Monday morning. So they can afford to pay for the next football ticket.

 

Seriously though. No comparison. Golf isn't a yelling sport. It just isn't. Neither is gymnastics. Swimming , horse jumping. Can you imagine if idiots yelled and blew air horns at the horses ? I mean by your logic we can compare a rock concert to Sunday morning church , after all they are both gatherings of people. Pretty sure you won't yell obscenities in church more than once without being tackled ( at least not in the south ).

 

gymnastics, horse jumping and swimming aren't popular

If horse jumping did become popular, you would have people there screaming Bababooey too

You can't have it both ways, you can't have golf be popular , and be a polite, high etiquette sport

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Flawed premise that to grow the game you have to permit obnoxious behavior. Sad statement on society if we think these are mutually inclusive.

[klbrown514]

Once again people confuse correlation with causation. There is a correlation between people eating ice cream and drowning, but the likelihood that vanilla goodness is what killed them is unlikely. Just like this comparison... The likely causation is liquid courage, a bit of narcissism, and the lack of any real punishment.

[clevited]

I personally don't care if people yell something after a drive or whatever. I don't understand why people do that, I certainly wouldn't but I doubt its entirely alcohol related. Sports can rile people up, and golf is starting more and more to attract a more "passionate" crowd.

 

For those whos argument though, is that others are putting on the course and so people should respect that and not yell bababoooy or whatever from a nearby location, then I guess crowds should also not cheer at the top of their lungs after a putt is holed for birdie? It might disturb someone teeing off on another hole? That is part of the game is it not? Tuning out that stuff?

 

When the behavior gets so bad (like too much alcohol can cause or just plain horrible behavior that really bothers the crowd they are in), then those people should complain and get the person reprimanded or kicked out. No different in that regard then when I go to a baseball game, sit in the family section yet somehow have a group of drunk people sitting behind me yelling all kinds of horrible things and spilling beer on the kids in front of them, I make sure they get the boot, or I make a scene and boot them myself.

[mjen43]

OP refers to himself as a "traditionalist/elitist" - you're part of the problem with golf and society.

 

Looks like we found a yeller here.

[ClintDagger]

The game grew so quickly due to Tiger’s phenomenon beginning 20 years ago because golf plucked away existing, adult fans from other sports and they brought that mentality to PGA galleries.

 

I was about 12 years old when Tiger hit the scene. And I watched as the sleepy public course I grew up on became jam packed with play even on week days. While a small amount of that growth was indeed youth golfers, most of it was adults closer to middle age that wore jeans and work boots and popped their first beer at 9am. By the afternoon the clubhouse and course was full of stumbling drunk dudes yelling and cussing and having a heck of a time.

 

Don’t get me wrong, these were not bad people. They were just mostly working class people that found a new place to blow off steam on the weekends. And I know many of them went to the local tour stops (The Nelson & Colonial) so I’m sure they took that behavior with them. I got into the game learning etiquette from my dad and from the club pro who had grown up with golf and learned those things in their youth. Perhaps if I just hopped into the game in my mid-40s I would have had a different mindset.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

At football games, do people sit there quietly , and just clap quietly when there team scores a touchdown?

Of course not. why should golf be different?

 

you can take a cowbell to a football game and use it prior, during, and after a play. does that mean we should allow them at a pga event? i really don't get the continual comparisons to what you can do at another sporting event to golf. so, yes, golf should be different, because it is different. which other sport has multiple players playing individually in close proximity where it is expected that there is quiet just prior to and during a 'shot'.

 

the baba booey and get in the hole people....i guess i just don't get it. its obnoxious, its annoying, its unfunny, its lame. i think the pga should start with the hecklers. those following a player harassing them. toss them out. no questions asked. hire some actual crowd control guys instead of leaving it up to the 67 yr old retired volunteer to attempt to kick out the obnoxious drunk.

 

i think its ridiculous that we are pretending like the pga has to choose between growing the game and disallowing a drunk patron to harass a player. i'm pretty sure we can do both.

[FKA HB]

Grow the game all you like, whatever that means. Just do it on some other course than the one I play.

[Ferguson]

Once again people confuse correlation with causation. There is a correlation between people eating ice cream and drowning, but the likelihood that vanilla goodness is what killed them is unlikely. Just like this comparison... The likely causation is liquid courage, a bit of narcissism, and the lack of any real punishment.

 

Well stated.

[mjen43]

Once again people confuse correlation with causation. There is a correlation between people eating ice cream and drowning, but the likelihood that vanilla goodness is what killed them is unlikely. Just like this comparison... The likely causation is liquid courage, a bit of narcissism, and the lack of any real punishment.

 

It’s not growing the game that is the cause. It is stupid people that is the cause. It just so happens that when you “grow the game” you find a lot more of these types of people.

[TollBros]

Maybe it's just time for the PGA Tour, making billions of dollars, to actually stop relying on volunteers, spend some actual money on course wide security, and start enforcing some real punishment for the frat boy behavior. The only way they are ever going to curb the really abusive fans is an immediate escort out.

[legitimategolf]

Why do these "grow the game" discussions get foisted upon us? We (those of us who do not work in a golf industry at least) are essentially just consumers in this market. Maximizing our own utility is all we're really after just like in every other market where we spend our money.

 

When we go into Best Buy to buy something, we are looking to get a good product at a good deal. I have effectively no interest in how Best Buy is doing as a business, or what I can do to grow the electronics market. To their credit, the electronics industry does not hold it against me for seeking to maximize my own utility not does it attempt to guilt-trip me with concerns about its bottom lines and whatever.

 

The golf industry on the other hand is constantly pestering its end users and trying to burden them with the onus of expanding the market.