Thoughts on why people are walking away from the game...

[FourTops]

I don't know how folks find time to play seasonal golf. It's like by the time spring and summer rolls around, and it's not raining on the weekend, I gotta believe ditching the family for golf is a tough sell. The solution is move to a warm year-round climate to free everyone up. Maybe move to Palm Springs and enjoy 340 days of sunshine. The family will be so bored of outdoor activities they'll beg you to leave them alone while you play golf.

[Pepperturbo]

There are many reasons as to why some walk away from golf, but what I have noticed amongst most of my friends is that it is time consuming and can be financially straining. I have lost many playing partners because they are starting a new family, I would be lucky to see them out on the course ONCE A MONTH. Courses around me range anywhere from $45-$60 walking and to get out every weekend, that would set you back ~$200/month and that doesn’t even include range cost. That’s money that could be used towards something else for their family i.e day care, home improvements, family vacations, kids clothes....etc.

 

. I think these can be a big factor as to why many walk away from the sport forever or temporarily. Golf is a luxury sport that can’t be enjoyed by many forever. I am lucky to have the money to spare for the sport, but my time has been cut in half or maybe more because I also fall into the category of starting a new family.

 

I agree. When people take up a hobby, they want to be able to enjoy the hobby in some manner, weekly if possible. But saving for the future and family expenses take priority. Most responsible youth starting careers have to evaluate costs especially if they have a wife/family. Honestly, that doesn't leave much money or time for the demands of golf.

 

My married millennial son is a new father. He works long hours and does well and plays golf but infrequently, and I cover costs and let him use my backup bag. Though his wife works, they are saving to buy a house which takes 60k-90k cash, so not much is left for expensive hobbies. Rent in SOCA for an apt/condo is +/- 2k also. His buddies and colleagues dabble too, but not very often, maybe 2-3 times a year. They say it's too expensive but the amount of time needed to be a decent golfer is just too much. Average round of golf in CA on weekends is +/- 5hrs. :beach:

 

Wow. I guess I didn't realize how bad things had gotten I guess.

 

By the late 80s I had ditched the first wife (no kids), had a budding career as a firmware engineer, a modest house (VA loan), a car, a sportbike or two, and played golf every weekend at least once. I even had time/money for other hobbies as well.

 

All on somewhere between 60-70k a year salary. I wasn't rich, but I managed to enjoy myself. Not so sure I could do all that now though.

 

I've told my kids often that I don't envy them in this day and age. :(

 

Agree.

 

SOCA is expensive for young family's. My son has a strong work ethic so for his age makes more than 60-70k and his wife is paid hourly. He was smart to pay off both older cars and now have disposable income but not much after rent, childcare, health and car insurance, and saving to buy a house in SOCA. They still enjoy themselves though. Only thing is he can't afford golf because it's too expensive to be good at it and takes too much time away from wife and child. The reason I pay for golf.

 

My more significant point is golf is not an entitlement, and my son understands that. Just like he realizes it's not in their best interest to buy/lease a new fancy ride, like some of their friends have, as they have no savings for emergencies or a future home. :beach:

[FourTops]

There are many reasons as to why some walk away from golf, but what I have noticed amongst most of my friends is that it is time consuming and can be financially straining. I have lost many playing partners because they are starting a new family, I would be lucky to see them out on the course ONCE A MONTH. Courses around me range anywhere from $45-$60 walking and to get out every weekend, that would set you back ~$200/month and that doesn’t even include range cost. That’s money that could be used towards something else for their family i.e day care, home improvements, family vacations, kids clothes....etc.

 

. I think these can be a big factor as to why many walk away from the sport forever or temporarily. Golf is a luxury sport that can’t be enjoyed by many forever. I am lucky to have the money to spare for the sport, but my time has been cut in half or maybe more because I also fall into the category of starting a new family.

 

I agree. When people take up a hobby, they want to be able to enjoy the hobby in some manner, weekly if possible. But saving for the future and family expenses take priority. Most responsible youth starting careers have to evaluate costs especially if they have a wife/family. Honestly, that doesn't leave much money or time for the demands of golf.

 

My married millennial son is a new father. He works long hours and does well and plays golf but infrequently, and I cover costs and let him use my backup bag. Though his wife works, they are saving to buy a house which takes 60k-90k cash, so not much is left for expensive hobbies. Rent in SOCA for an apt/condo is +/- 2k also. His buddies and colleagues dabble too, but not very often, maybe 2-3 times a year. They say it's too expensive but the amount of time needed to be a decent golfer is just too much. Average round of golf in CA on weekends is +/- 5hrs. :beach:

 

Wow. I guess I didn't realize how bad things had gotten I guess.

 

By the late 80s I had ditched the first wife (no kids), had a budding career as a firmware engineer, a modest house (VA loan), a car, a sportbike or two, and played golf every weekend at least once. I even had time/money for other hobbies as well.

 

All on somewhere between 60-70k a year salary. I wasn't rich, but I managed to enjoy myself. Not so sure I could do all that now though.

 

I've told my kids often that I don't envy them in this day and age. :(

 

Agree.

 

SOCA is expensive for young family's. My son has a strong work ethic so for his age makes more than 60-70k and his wife is paid hourly. He was smart to pay off both older cars and now have disposable income but not much after rent, childcare, health and car insurance, and saving to buy a house in SOCA. They still enjoy themselves though. Only thing is he can't afford golf because it's too expensive to be good at it and takes too much time away from wife and child. The reason I pay for golf.

 

My more significant point is golf is not an entitlement, and my son understands that. Just like he realizes it's not in their best interest to buy/lease a new fancy ride, like some of their friends have, as they have no savings for emergencies or a future home. :beach:

 

So true. BTW....Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are now offering 3% down loans with 640 credit scores. They will still validate income, but that should help younger folks buy a home.

[thug the bunny]

There are many reasons as to why some walk away from golf, but what I have noticed amongst most of my friends is that it is time consuming and can be financially straining. I have lost many playing partners because they are starting a new family, I would be lucky to see them out on the course ONCE A MONTH. Courses around me range anywhere from $45-$60 walking and to get out every weekend, that would set you back ~$200/month and that doesn’t even include range cost. That’s money that could be used towards something else for their family i.e day care, home improvements, family vacations, kids clothes....etc.

 

. I think these can be a big factor as to why many walk away from the sport forever or temporarily. Golf is a luxury sport that can’t be enjoyed by many forever. I am lucky to have the money to spare for the sport, but my time has been cut in half or maybe more because I also fall into the category of starting a new family.

 

I agree. When people take up a hobby, they want to be able to enjoy the hobby in some manner, weekly if possible. But saving for the future and family expenses take priority. Most responsible youth starting careers have to evaluate costs especially if they have a wife/family. Honestly, that doesn't leave much money or time for the demands of golf.

 

My married millennial son is a new father. He works long hours and does well and plays golf but infrequently, and I cover costs and let him use my backup bag. Though his wife works, they are saving to buy a house which takes 60k-90k cash, so not much is left for expensive hobbies. Rent in SOCA for an apt/condo is +/- 2k also. His buddies and colleagues dabble too, but not very often, maybe 2-3 times a year. They say it's too expensive but the amount of time needed to be a decent golfer is just too much. Average round of golf in CA on weekends is +/- 5hrs. :beach:

 

Wow. I guess I didn't realize how bad things had gotten I guess.

 

By the late 80s I had ditched the first wife (no kids), had a budding career as a firmware engineer, a modest house (VA loan), a car, a sportbike or two, and played golf every weekend at least once. I even had time/money for other hobbies as well.

 

All on somewhere between 60-70k a year salary. I wasn't rich, but I managed to enjoy myself. Not so sure I could do all that now though.

 

I've told my kids often that I don't envy them in this day and age. :(

 

Agree.

 

SOCA is expensive for young family's. My son has a strong work ethic so for his age makes more than 60-70k and his wife is paid hourly. He was smart to pay off both older cars and now have disposable income but not much after rent, childcare, health and car insurance, and saving to buy a house in SOCA. They still enjoy themselves though. Only thing is he can't afford golf because it's too expensive to be good at it and takes too much time away from wife and child. The reason I pay for golf.

 

My more significant point is golf is not an entitlement, and my son understands that. Just like he realizes it's not in their best interest to buy/lease a new fancy ride, like some of their friends have, as they have no savings for emergencies or a future home. :beach:

 

So true. BTW....Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are now offering 3% down loans with 640 credit scores. They will still validate income, but that should help younger folks buy a home.

 

Sounds like the high risk housing loan habit is starting up again.

 

And the cycle of greed and stupidity continues...

[Jackhammer993]

I just went to the local Golf Galaxy which is closing and they have also closed down 2 top golf courses close to my house in the last few years. I think Tigers success brought a lot of new faces but the trend towards a faster lifestyle have hurt sports like baseball and maybe even to a larger extent golf. People just don’t want to spend 6 hours on the course. Everyone’s working hard just trying to survive and already sacrificing family time with most couples both working. It’s hard to say but easy to see. Golf has lost its mojo with many and not thinking it will ever get back to close to where it was.

[BB28403]

There are many reasons as to why some walk away from golf, but what I have noticed amongst most of my friends is that it is time consuming and can be financially straining. I have lost many playing partners because they are starting a new family, I would be lucky to see them out on the course ONCE A MONTH. Courses around me range anywhere from $45-$60 walking and to get out every weekend, that would set you back ~$200/month and that doesn’t even include range cost. That’s money that could be used towards something else for their family i.e day care, home improvements, family vacations, kids clothes....etc.

 

. I think these can be a big factor as to why many walk away from the sport forever or temporarily. Golf is a luxury sport that can’t be enjoyed by many forever. I am lucky to have the money to spare for the sport, but my time has been cut in half or maybe more because I also fall into the category of starting a new family.

 

I agree. When people take up a hobby, they want to be able to enjoy the hobby in some manner, weekly if possible. But saving for the future and family expenses take priority. Most responsible youth starting careers have to evaluate costs especially if they have a wife/family. Honestly, that doesn't leave much money or time for the demands of golf.

 

My married millennial son is a new father. He works long hours and does well and plays golf but infrequently, and I cover costs and let him use my backup bag. Though his wife works, they are saving to buy a house which takes 60k-90k cash, so not much is left for expensive hobbies. Rent in SOCA for an apt/condo is +/- 2k also. His buddies and colleagues dabble too, but not very often, maybe 2-3 times a year. They say it's too expensive but the amount of time needed to be a decent golfer is just too much. Average round of golf in CA on weekends is +/- 5hrs. :beach:

 

Wow. I guess I didn't realize how bad things had gotten I guess.

 

By the late 80s I had ditched the first wife (no kids), had a budding career as a firmware engineer, a modest house (VA loan), a car, a sportbike or two, and played golf every weekend at least once. I even had time/money for other hobbies as well.

 

All on somewhere between 60-70k a year salary. I wasn't rich, but I managed to enjoy myself. Not so sure I could do all that now though.

 

I've told my kids often that I don't envy them in this day and age. :(

 

Agree.

 

SOCA is expensive for young family's. My son has a strong work ethic so for his age makes more than 60-70k and his wife is paid hourly. He was smart to pay off both older cars and now have disposable income but not much after rent, childcare, health and car insurance, and saving to buy a house in SOCA. They still enjoy themselves though. Only thing is he can't afford golf because it's too expensive to be good at it and takes too much time away from wife and child. The reason I pay for golf.

 

My more significant point is golf is not an entitlement, and my son understands that. Just like he realizes it's not in their best interest to buy/lease a new fancy ride, like some of their friends have, as they have no savings for emergencies or a future home. :beach:

 

So true. BTW....Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are now offering 3% down loans with 640 credit scores. They will still validate income, but that should help younger folks buy a home.

 

Yeah but home prices have been inflated by on average 100k at least. So young people can buy a home 100k underwater. It is pretty ridiculous.

[Wriggles]

I belong to an almost defunct club. I think it will close by the end of the year. When I joined in 1997, if you weren't part of the chosen, you just couldn't play ANY morning. You had to come out in the afternoon, before the leagues. I was self employed, so it worked for me, but other members came and went.

 

For the last five years or so, I've been able to play all weekday mornings, on an empty course. The weekend 20 or so chosen, still hog up the prime mornings. But, I can play after around 11:00 am.

 

I don't think I can ever go back to public courses, with the long waits, and misery. I'll probably join a league, and play once a week at best. Walking 18 in less than 2 hours is a joy, 5 hours misery.

[tannyhoban]

Pretty simple, golf is not for everyone.

[BB28403]

Pretty simple, golf is not for everyone.

 

Nor Dr. Who! Golf is definitely bigger on the inside :)

[tehuti]

I would think that an innovative course owner in today's market would figure out a way to value people's time better but I haven't seen it happen. Guarantee a round in 4 hours or less on weekend mornings through strict ranger enforcement and 9-10 minute tee times, let twosomes play nine holes at a nine hole rate starting off the back nine early in the morning, have twosomes only at tighter tee time intervals for the first hour of play in the morning, etc. Build a reputation as a place that doesn't tolerate slow play. Maybe I am the minority but I would pay more for that experience, the slow people can go elsewhere. Anecdotally I know many people who are short on time and would pay a few extra bucks to avoid the chance of a 5+ hour round. They can't play often but when they do they don't have all day for it.

Agreed. I was astounding to here there are actually courses that don't offer 9 hole rates. Guess they don't want the late day 9 holer working man's money.

 

Courses should have rates for less than 9 holes. I've seen it but most don't.

 

We even have a couple of courses that offer a 5 hole rate. I’ve never tried it, but that is a great idea for after work in the summer, or when you just have an hour or so and would rather do that than hit the range.

[Pepperturbo]

Yeah but home prices have been inflated by on average 100k at least. So young people can buy a home 100k underwater. It is pretty ridiculous.

 

I hold property in multiple states. Due to supply & demand in certain areas such as OCTY regional inflation has been standard for years. Not in my lifetime has OCTY properties ever aligned with prices in the Inland Empire, S.E, mid-West or other areas, though many people wish. :beach:

[TollBros]

Today's Kids see golf as another 'outdoor entertainment activity' but they are impatient and tend to demand 'instant gratification' from it. Golf doesn't provide that...you must actually be willing to work at it if you want to get better, and it's only then that you begin to derive a sense of personal satisfaction from it. Seems so many beginners these days lack both the patience and the work ethic the game of golf requires. They tend to become 'frustrated' and walk away from the game much too quickly!.

 

Perhaps it's due to this electronic age which has created kind of a 'video game mentality'; among our youth, and when it's not that, it's the obsession with facebook, constant texting, and other forms of social media. Today's Kids often grow up spending far more time with indoor video games than with outdoor sports activities that were so popular during my younger days. In fact, When I was a young lad, my friends and I always wanted to be playing some kind of sport outside the house, and actually hated being cooped up inside. However, obviously things have changed considerably since those days. Too many of today's Kids prefer being inside the house with their electronic games, going on facebook, or texting with their friends. In fact, many are completely addicted to that kind of lifestyle. No, it's not true for every Kid, and I do think most Parents encourage their Kids to get outside and enjoy organized sports to ensure they get enough proper exercise andalso develop the social skills and the sense of teamwork they will need later in life to be successful. However, given all the 'electronic fog' these kids choose to live in , it can be a real struggle for a Father to introduce his son or daughter to a slow moving game like golf. They tend to quickly become bored when they realize the difficulty and time required by the game, and as soon as that happens they go right back to their social media and/or video game obsessions..

 

 

:golfer:

 

I teach kids every week. It's the amount of time it takes and the amount of standing around "doing nothing" that they hate. It is vocalized to me weekly. When we play quickly and are done with 9 in an hour and a half or less, they stay interested. Slow play kills the desire to play the game.

[tssgj65]

I left Socal in '92 and it was getting bad (expensive) then. People I know who have been there recently tell me to never go back and just hang onto my memories, because it's not the place I remember.

 

But then that could be said for pretty much anywhere I guess.

 

I left in 94. Still visit but thank my lucky stars I don’t live there!

[shotmark]

Walking away from golf on the moon...

 

 

You mean in Area 51? Nobody went to the moon. Silly. : )

 

Well, you know how rumors are, the moon story could be fake news. But I heard he walked away from moon golf because:

• The travel time
  
• Didn't like playing alone
  
• Viewers kept calling NASA about alleged floating ball when he went to putt... so penalty strokes
  
• WRX'ers were doubting his 800 yd tee shot claims (a few though we saying 'understand that bro')
  
• Course conditions, especially unfixed divots
  
• Wife kept complaining about his time away from home claiming to be 'golfing'
  

 

This got me thinking, I've looked again at the photo's of Armstrong hitting his 5 iron on the moon and I'm sure he's anchoring but that's for another thread!

[golfheaven69]

Played the game for over 40 years and could see giving it up at some point. The game is so expensive to play nice tracks and I’m not playing a goat track. Fortunate my hdcp (5-9) has stayed within 3-4 shots for decades. If the game ever goes south the fun will go with it. Can’t stand paying coin and hacking.

[shotmark]

Pretty simple, golf is not for everyone.

 

Nor Dr. Who! Golf is definitely bigger on the inside :)

 

Dr Who was a keen golfer and caddied for Old Tom Morris at Musselburgh in the first ever Open Championship.

[FourTops]

I talked to real estate agents in New Jersey because I'm handling an estate for which in part I am putting a home up for sale. Both agents said the Millennials want everything to be 100% perfect before they move in. Both are taking classes on how to deal with Millennials because they don't want to do ANY work on ANY home. I am fairly certain this mindset translates to golf. They see folks playing golf, so they peruse ads for the longest hitting, easiest to hit clubs...buy them...blow-up, and quit.

[Stanks]

Why are people leaving the game?

 

1. Too slow. As stated earlier, golf in San Diego / So-Cal in general is quite slow. Courses are packed, however. But, there is just a lot of newer guys that are playing "shank-ball" whereever they can and it makes for slow play. If, in San Diego, I get a 4 and 1/2 hour round in with a partner and 2 others on a public course, then it's amazing.

 

2. Still, too slow. Some people just don't wanna get out and enjoy the fresh air. They wanna stay on their apps and their instagram and get to whatever is next in their day plan as fast as possible. Some don't have the patience and attention span it takes to get good enough to make a good shot time and time again.

 

3. Expensive. My background / sport I've played most of my life is paintball. Somehow, paintball survived our little recession we had in country a while ago and, actually, the paint and a lot of products got cheaper. Tournaments became smaller and smaller but did, ultimately stick around and still became cheaper with paint. New rules in the game allowed for more spending on different resources. Now, for golf, the rounds, equipment, products, all became more expensive. That or leveled off then rose again. The industry demands $$$ rightfully so, though.

 

4. Lastly, but not least, golf attitudes. You have your hackers, weekend warriors, retirees, all the way up to the pro. The best attitudes in golf are the ones that come from players that have been it a while. The ones that can harness the patience and take their time. Unfortunately, those cats are few and far between now. You have a lot of players that are just saying, go go go go, get going, go go. etc.

 

I'll be around a while. Golf makes me mad. Paintball calms me down. But, I'm glad I play both.

[oiler45]

I've golfed for over 40 years - like others have said golf is no slower or faster than it has ever been. Rounds have taken about the same amount of time as always.

People are leaving the game almost exclusively due to cost - golf is more expensive now in relative terms than it has ever been.

 

Young folks simply spend their cash on other, cheaper options.

[Johnnypenso]

I think what we are witnessing is a cultural shift towards immediate gratification and away from hobbies and games that require a lot of dedication and practice to be somewhat good at. Golf is complicated so you can't just pick it up casually like you can with a tennis racket. Gaming on your tv has replaced real gaming for a lot of our young foiks. Golf is also physically challenging if you're out of shape and a lot of younger people are dramatically out of shape these days. Finally, it's time consuming. 3-4 hours to play a typical round if you know what you're doing and more like 5 hours if you're hitting it all over the place. Travel to and from the course and it's a half day commitment. How many young people do you know outside of athletes that are willing to spend 6 hours doing anything that involves more than their thumbs or fingers?

[Davidv]

Time is the main reason. New equipment is something many golfers look forward to. Nothing like buying the latest and greatest to chase that magic round. No one says you have to buy the new stuff. The manufacturers are in business to make money not save you money.

[GoldeNDomer]

I know a man who was a 2 handicap that walked away because he couldn't get better and got disengaged. He left to get worse and to challenge himself to get back to his ability and when he finally did, he walked away again for good. Sounds like he may have deeper rooted issues but that is why he left.

[GoldeNDomer]

Then there is my brother. He left the game for two reasons: 1) he couldn't hit a driver not matter how much he tried, and 2) he tried to re-write the rule book of golf in essence changing the game to 12 holes. He believed that recreational golf should be 12 holes, kind of like recreational baseball being 7 innings and recreational hockey being 15 minute periods. He felt a round of golf takes up literally the entire day from driving to and from the course, playing the round, eating and showering. It was just not something he was willing to endure of a weekly basis. Yes I know some of the responses will be if he heard of playing 9 holes. For some reason 9 holes weren't enough and didn't make the trip worth it.

 

Whatever, I know some strange people.

[Dfwgolfdude]

I've had a couple of 6 hour rounds in recent years. That's miserable.

 

I chalk that up to marshals not doing their job and people not playing ready golf...etc.

[FourTops]

The memberships are completely sold-out at my friend's private country club in SoCal...$850/mo dues, plus $100 F&B min....tennis, gym...giant pool...events, etc. He says it's the best investment he's made because the entire family has a place to hang out...and in the afternoons the club lets him take his kids out to practice on the course. Sure, that's expensive, but he can play almost whenever he wants...and 9 holes takes no longer than 2 hours...and 18 holes is often under 4 hours. After golf he jumps in the pool with the kids and orders a round of Margarita's. Everybody's happy.

[BB28403]

I talked to real estate agents in New Jersey because I'm handling an estate for which in part I am putting a home up for sale. Both agents said the Millennials want everything to be 100% perfect before they move in. Both are taking classes on how to deal with Millennials because they don't want to do ANY work on ANY home. I am fairly certain this mindset translates to golf. They see folks playing golf, so they peruse ads for the longest hitting, easiest to hit clubs...buy them...blow-up, and quit.

 

Technically there are millennials from the early 00’s and newer millennials. The first ones are fine, the second batch is a little different but most are cool. I have never run into any millennial as you describe.

[BB28403]

The memberships are completely sold-out at my friend's private country club in SoCal...$850/mo dues, plus $100 F&B min....tennis, gym...giant pool...events, etc. He says it's the best investment he's made because the entire family has a place to hang out...and in the afternoons the club lets him take his kids out to practice on the course. Sure, that's expensive, but he can play almost whenever he wants...and 9 holes takes no longer than 2 hours...and 18 holes is often under 4 hours. After golf he jumps in the pool with the kids and orders a round of Margarita's. Everybody's happy.

 

Buy a Toyota instead of that BMW or Lexus and that club pays for itself.

[youngstructural]

I think it's a simple answer.

 

Golf is hard.

 

And besides for the very very talented few it's continuous work, which is above and beyond the time it takes for a round. And even then it can still be infuriating.

 

It's hard for a new golfer to keep firing 100+ scores, never improve, unable to practice and stay engaged.

 

It is what it is. We're all here at golfwrx bc we made it over the mental hump and decided we love this sport in all of its glory and aggrivations. However, most people never get there.

 

Oh well. Let em walk. More tee times for me. Preferably before 8am.

 

 

[gatorpedsMD]

time and money. u need a lot of both to be good at and enjoy golf. problem is the capitalist elites are taking all of both at an accelerated rate.

[ChronicSlicer]

The memberships are completely sold-out at my friend's private country club in SoCal...$850/mo dues, plus $100 F&B min....tennis, gym...giant pool...events, etc. He says it's the best investment he's made because the entire family has a place to hang out...and in the afternoons the club lets him take his kids out to practice on the course. Sure, that's expensive, but he can play almost whenever he wants...and 9 holes takes no longer than 2 hours...and 18 holes is often under 4 hours. After golf he jumps in the pool with the kids and orders a round of Margarita's. Everybody's happy.

 

$850 is a mortgage payment around here. The rest goes to food, gas, bills,cloths..

Ya see, not everyone is the upper crust. The correct answer is cash, followed by time.