Thoughts on why people are walking away from the game...

[FourTops]

Millenial (born 1983-2000) that makes that cohort 18-35. JMTC's-That age group does not have money for golf. They seem to be a very low impact cohort for the golf industry. They might be golfers later in life...but today...

 

I started golf late in life-Still working, kid out of the house...and the wife took it up with me. We are not members of a club. We play munis or other courses open to public golfing. We have time to play a couple times a week. Vacation now includes golfing usually with family.

 

Every where we play, it is very busy. The majority of courses we play have no housing component. They are older woodland style courses.

 

Courses closing? Courses losing membership?

 

Yup. They are in our area. It appears to be driven by two things. Boomers are dying, effecting private membership courses. Courses are introducing all kinds of lower pricing to increase membership. Annual memberships are selling for ridiculous prices on kijiji ...and... courses built with a residential component are not selling and are failing. Two have plowed over the course to introduce new development proposals.

 

Golf is no different than any other industry-greed will over build/over supply (Boomers started to have disposable income and maybe Tiger moved the needle)-demographics effect industry and economic hits will effect any sector that needs disposable income.

 

Golf is dying. Slow play is increasing due to too many golfers-Golf is too busy. It's probably a very regional driven thing.

 

Fair assessment. But I think golf popularity is more regional in combination with the wealth within the area, and not having to deal with seasonal golf. I'm right now spending much more time in La Quinta near PGA West, and about a zillion other courses. The cost now is low due to temps, so courses aren't busy. But in the "winter" months the prices go berserk, and it's hard to get a tee time for under $150 on a decent course. "World money" comes into the Cochella Valley and blows up everything. Same for SoCal coastal. I bet WRMiller out in AZ runs into the same in the Scottsdale area with tons of great golf courses.

 

I’ve been to Coachella the festival and area a few times. Love that area. Those mountains in the distance are so therapeutic to see while there. Did you guys have any wildfire issues?

 

Wildfires were west of Palm Springs. It is a cool place to hang out and relax.

[NoTalentLefty]

Just saw the latest statistics. Golf new members are up. Rounds down but much due to this year’s weather.

[gloucesteroldspot]

I can only speak from my own experience. When I was a kid I wanted to play golf, but couldn't due to cost of local club membership fees and lack of pay-and-play courses. I didn't start playing golf properly until I was 18, when I got work as a green keeper at a golf and country club. That club had a ten year waiting list, a £2K joining fee and cost about £1200 in annual fees. That wasn't untypical for the area (North London/South Hertfordshire). I stopped working there after a couple of years and from then on my golf was limited to a few rounds a year, mainly on a council-run glorified pitch-and-putt course, hitting a few balls around a nearby playing field and 'rough golf' - a concept a friend and I invented which entailed hitting a ball each from one end of the local common to the other (a distance of about three quarters of a mile through grassland and scrub, with ponds, ditches and trees to negotiate) and finishing by hitting the ball against the trunk of a large solitary pine tree at the northern end. Fewest shots taken was the winner. We'd use seven or nine irons only. We had to stop after my friend sliced his ball onto the roof of a passing police car.

 

I could easily have abandoned the game as too much trouble, and had I been in the same situation twenty years later, with all the alternative amusements on offer, I probably would. Nowadays, it's much easier to join a golf club. Only the most exclusive have waiting lists, many do not even operate joining fees and the annual subs are around the same as they were thirty years ago, so in real terms much less. I do not think the game is elitist any more; people used to put their name down for a place at a golf club, and be prepared to wait, as much for the social status as for the game itself. Once 'in' they would stick to it. Nowadays in the brave new world of opportunity for everyone and instant gratification it's difficult enough for clubs to survive at all, and most are doing everything they can to attract members. By increasing immediate access to golf via pay-and-play you open the game up to anyone, but inevitably attract less desirable elements along the way. The experience of a newcomer is thus something of a gamble; they might love it, or they might hate it and never return if their game is spoiled by the loutish behaviour of others. This is never tolerated at private club, but how can you demand respect for something if it is so freely available?

 

Blaming equipment costs and the constant marketing pressure to upgrade is putting the cart before the horse; it might conceivably drive people away from the game (though it's hard to see why they should allow it to) but it cannot prevent people taking it up. If anything the increased rate of club replacement by the ultra keen equipment junkies means more used equipment becomes available, and drives the second-hand price down. Couple that with Ebay, Golfbidder etc. and it's not difficult to kit yourself out with a set of usable clubs for very little outlay. As a kid I never saw used golf clubs for sale outside of golf shops, and in those even rubbish ones were ten or fifteen pounds a time. By contrast one of my local courses has lots of donated clubs for sale and back in the summer they were having a clear out because they had too many; I picked up a full matched set of Slazenger woods and irons, plus a bag, for twenty quid. The bag even had three new Pro V1s in it. I'd have been in seventh heaven with that lot when I was young, even if I only ever got to hit balls in a field.

[sevenfourate]

A few random thoughts that i can comment on (Having been out of the game a few years; but knowing quite a few golfers, local Pro's and Club Secretaries etc):

 

Membership in my area (Suffolk,England) is decreasing overall i'd say. Most clubs in my area have 'no joining fee, incentives to join, Winter 3 or 6 month deals available, points systems where you can buy rounds at a couple of hundred £££ at a time and still get membership benefits, previous 'Premier' clubs where payment was in one installment only - you now get the option of monthly payments, 3 monthly, 6 monthly etc etc. AND in many (most ?) clubs locally the green fee prices have dropped. Considerably. The literally just want to grab any ££££ ($$$$) from you any way they can. Looking the part, knowing the right people and even things like showing a handicap certificate EVERYWHERE all seem to be / becoming things of the past.

 

On a small-scale (?) perspective; the old elitist days of effectively saying "Our green fees are £80 a round; if you're silly enough to pay them - you can come play. If not we have enough members / income as it is" appear to be over - and the realism of the economics / running a club on a finite amount of money has hit home. The same could be said of memberships of these same clubs on a larger scale.

 

Why ? Financial climate over here of the last 10 years. Busier family lives - in part maybe longer work hours, going back to that work uncertainty. Less financial security / putting a bit aside for later (?), unemployment, zero hour contracts....and i'm sure in there somewhere was the ever-lengthening time a day of golf took with meeting up before, prize giving afterwards etc.

 

I'm getting back into the game after a few years out. (Through none of the reasons above !) But at the moment being a nomad might suit, as the deals / prices now are as low as they've ever been and are easy to get with social media, tee-time apps etc. That would never have been true or possible 10 years ago for sure.

 

Infact i've got the next 3 days off work and am playing one superb course, one ok course and a playable course (on Sat) for the sum total of £35 ($50) for the 3. That same superb course where you'd likely get looked at down the end of someone's nose; was more than that alone for a green-fee in the mid 1990's. I know because i worked there.

 

How the tide turns.......

[757USMCVET]

Why spend 5+ hours in heat and or humidity when there's no 6 figure check waiting? Why continue to beat balls at the range then when time comes to put your newly acquired skills to the test you're stuck behind someone who shoots 130? Golf clubs can be had for cheap, deals on green fees are abundant, but why am I paying to spend hours and hours around Word not allowedholes? Did I mention when you're done there is no check?

[OldFrog75]

I recently read that only 25% of players consistently break 100. When I was a teenager if you couldn't break 100, you really didn't play...at least not with the Country Club set (and that was with blades and persimmon woods).

 

Back then there was only one way to get good at golf - study Ben Hogan's book and spend hours on the driving range mastering the fundamentals. The difference between a Pro, Scratch, Bogey, or Duffer golfer was how many hours they spent practicing.

 

Nowadays anybody who has $1500-$2000 to spend can walk into a golf shop and get custom fitted for a "forgiving" set of clubs with a driver head the size of a softball to compensate for the fundamentals they don't have the time and/or desire to practice as much as they need to.

 

I'm guessing people quit because they don't have the time, desire, or physicality (age) to get better (or at least enjoy the game) so they find something else to do.

[jamgam]

My personal issue when and where. I live in downtown Atlanta. The country club options here are priced out of what I'm willing to pay (100k up front etc) or there are the Atlanta owned muni courses which are 5-6 hr rounds on weekends. I have a 5 year old and 2 year old so I can't go out every Saturday for most of the day. I normally try to take a friday off couple times a month during the good weather months and play and hit the range in the evening once a week.

 

It's easy to go months without swinging a club even though I don't want to

 

I've had thoughts of moving to have a bigger house for the same money, more land, less traffic and golf options but the wife isn't really down for that yet :D

[Golfer4Life]

I wouldn't say golf is dying. More like it is on a diet and needs to loose a few pounds. At least I can hope anyway.

 

I always thought that building some mediocre track and then surround it with houses was just stupid from a golfers perspective. But from a greed perspective, it probably worked rather well for the home builders.

 

Nothing would please me more than to see these weekend hacks that don't bother to become proficient enough to play at a reasonable (4-4.5 hrs IMO) pace, or learn and use golf etiquette properly, leave golf courses in droves.

 

I for one would love to see golfers have to pass a licensing requirement (proficiency and knowledge) to get on a course in this country. Won't happen of course, as the course owners would just scream bloody murder. ;)

 

Heck, might as well let’s get congressional legislation, lol.....

[Tim Schoch]

It is tough to spend substantial money on a game that you suck at for 5 hours. Especially when all you hear is buy buy buy this and that at $100+ to fix your swing, then get fitted, take a vaca, install your own green, use this pain cream etc.

 

Commercialism aimed at people with ample money is killing the spirit of the game. Even kids require the best clubs and outfits.

 

The elemental experience of you golfing, nature, the smells, sounds, swings, miracles are rarely mentioned. Literature (stories, fiction, humor, etc) is all but gone. Golf doesn't answer the question "What's in it for me?"

 

Today, it seems like you need money to play. Sad. I love golf on my own terms, practice all the time, have a great time with friends, my wife, and alone. My entire set of clubs cost $200--I just upgraded from a set that cost $30. I shoot to a 12. I will be 69 in Nov.

[Mikey5e]

It is tough to spend substantial money on a game that you suck at for 5 hours. Especially when all you hear is buy buy buy this and that at $100+ to fix your swing, then get fitted, take a vaca, install your own green, use this pain cream etc.

 

Commercialism aimed at people with ample money is killing the spirit of the game. Even kids require the best clubs and outfits.

 

The elemental experience of you golfing, nature, the smells, sounds, swings, miracles are rarely mentioned. Literature (stories, fiction, humor, etc) is all but gone. Golf doesn't answer the question "What's in it for me?"

 

Today, it seems like you need money to play. Sad. I love golf on my own terms, practice all the time, have a great time with friends, my wife, and alone. My entire set of clubs cost $200--I just upgraded from a set that cost $30. I shoot to a 12. I will be 69 in Nov.

You have some valid points amongst your passive brag!

[Tim Schoch]

It is tough to spend substantial money on a game that you suck at for 5 hours. Especially when all you hear is buy buy buy this and that at $100+ to fix your swing, then get fitted, take a vaca, install your own green, use this pain cream etc.

 

Commercialism aimed at people with ample money is killing the spirit of the game. Even kids require the best clubs and outfits.

 

The elemental experience of you golfing, nature, the smells, sounds, swings, miracles are rarely mentioned. Literature (stories, fiction, humor, etc) is all but gone. Golf doesn't answer the question "What's in it for me?"

 

Today, it seems like you need money to play. Sad. I love golf on my own terms, practice all the time, have a great time with friends, my wife, and alone. My entire set of clubs cost $200--I just upgraded from a set that cost $30. I shoot to a 12. I will be 69 in Nov.

You have some valid points amongst your passive brag!

 

Brag? Facts aren't bragging. I'm proud to stick with something and get better, particularly against obstacles. Nothing passive about me :)

[nsxguy]

It is tough to spend substantial money on a game that you suck at for 5 hours. Especially when all you hear is buy buy buy this and that at $100+ to fix your swing, then get fitted, take a vaca, install your own green, use this pain cream etc.

 

Commercialism aimed at people with ample money is killing the spirit of the game. Even kids require the best clubs and outfits.

 

The elemental experience of you golfing, nature, the smells, sounds, swings, miracles are rarely mentioned. Literature (stories, fiction, humor, etc) is all but gone. Golf doesn't answer the question "What's in it for me?"

 

Today, it seems like you need money to play. Sad. I love golf on my own terms, practice all the time, have a great time with friends, my wife, and alone. My entire set of clubs cost $200--I just upgraded from a set that cost $30. I shoot to a 12. I will be 69 in Nov.

You have some valid points amongst your passive brag!

 

Brag? Facts aren't bragging. I'm proud to stick with something and get better, particularly against obstacles. Nothing passive about me :)

 

I'm trying to figure out the "brag" part....................... :dntknw:

[hybrid25]

It is tough to spend substantial money on a game that you suck at for 5 hours. Especially when all you hear is buy buy buy this and that at $100+ to fix your swing, then get fitted, take a vaca, install your own green, use this pain cream etc.

 

Commercialism aimed at people with ample money is killing the spirit of the game. Even kids require the best clubs and outfits.

 

The elemental experience of you golfing, nature, the smells, sounds, swings, miracles are rarely mentioned. Literature (stories, fiction, humor, etc) is all but gone. Golf doesn't answer the question "What's in it for me?"

 

Today, it seems like you need money to play. Sad. I love golf on my own terms, practice all the time, have a great time with friends, my wife, and alone. My entire set of clubs cost $200--I just upgraded from a set that cost $30. I shoot to a 12. I will be 69 in Nov.

You have some valid points amongst your passive brag!

 

Brag? Facts aren't bragging. I'm proud to stick with something and get better, particularly against obstacles. Nothing passive about me :)

 

I'm trying to figure out the "brag" part....................... :dntknw:

 

Maybe it's this comment;

"I shoot to a 12. I will be 69 in Nov."

[nsxguy]

It is tough to spend substantial money on a game that you suck at for 5 hours. Especially when all you hear is buy buy buy this and that at $100+ to fix your swing, then get fitted, take a vaca, install your own green, use this pain cream etc.

 

Commercialism aimed at people with ample money is killing the spirit of the game. Even kids require the best clubs and outfits.

 

The elemental experience of you golfing, nature, the smells, sounds, swings, miracles are rarely mentioned. Literature (stories, fiction, humor, etc) is all but gone. Golf doesn't answer the question "What's in it for me?"

 

Today, it seems like you need money to play. Sad. I love golf on my own terms, practice all the time, have a great time with friends, my wife, and alone. My entire set of clubs cost $200--I just upgraded from a set that cost $30. I shoot to a 12. I will be 69 in Nov.

You have some valid points amongst your passive brag!

 

Brag? Facts aren't bragging. I'm proud to stick with something and get better, particularly against obstacles. Nothing passive about me :)

 

I'm trying to figure out the "brag" part....................... :dntknw:

 

Maybe it's this comment;

"I shoot to a 12. I will be 69 in Nov."

 

That's a "brag" ??? :blink:

[Tim Schoch]

12 is not a not very accomplished 69-year-old. If that's bragging to anyone, I guess I feel pretty good about that

[mosesgolf]

I'll take being a 12 at 69 :D

Currently a 4.5 at 54. :D

 

 

Is that a brag?

 

IMO there is a generational shift going on as it relates to golfers leaving and those coming in.

[shotmark]

I'll take being a 12 at 69 :D

Currently a 4.5 at 54. :D

 

 

Is that a brag?

 

IMO there is a generational shift going on as it relates to golfers leaving and those coming in.

 

I'm a 55 year old 8.9 so relatively, yes. Oops maybe mine is also a passive brag. Better not mention the fact that I've just changed my irons after having my old ones for a tad under five years.

[brianolson32]

I don't think that this is enough to force people to walk away from the game, but I think that old and crabby guys working at golf retailers or at golf courses that are constantly vibing people out aren't helping things. While there are plenty of guys who genuinely enjoy working in the golf business and are great deal with, there are a ton of guys who seem pissed off about their lot in life that they still have to work when they should be retired, playing golf at a private course, etc. that seem to want to make life miserable for customers. I'm fed up with these guys who aren't helpful or condescendingly question every purchase you make at golf shops, or starters that act like they are St. Peter at the pearly gates when you are teeing off.

 

 

Anyone else experience this? Like I said probably not enough to turn people away from golf, but certainly not helping.

[shotmark]

I don't think that this is enough to force people to walk away from the game, but I think that old and crabby guys working at golf retailers or at golf courses that are constantly vibing people out aren't helping things. While there are plenty of guys who genuinely enjoy working in the golf business and are great deal with, there are a ton of guys who seem pissed off about their lot in life that they still have to work when they should be retired, playing golf at a private course, etc. that seem to want to make life miserable for customers. I'm fed up with these guys who aren't helpful or condescendingly question every purchase you make at golf shops, or starters that act like they are St. Peter at the pearly gates when you are teeing off.

 

 

Anyone else experience this? Like I said probably not enough to turn people away from golf, but certainly not helping.

 

I am that man but come at it from a different angle. Most of my working life I've been in financial services doing work that while well paid wasn't particularly exciting, and looking forward to retirement. I was fortunate enough 3 years ago to retire from my desk job ant take a part time job in a local pro shop which I absolutely love.

[nsxguy]

I don't think that this is enough to force people to walk away from the game, but I think that old and crabby guys working at golf retailers or at golf courses that are constantly vibing people out aren't helping things. While there are plenty of guys who genuinely enjoy working in the golf business and are great deal with, there are a ton of guys who seem pissed off about their lot in life that they still have to work when they should be retired, playing golf at a private course, etc. that seem to want to make life miserable for customers. I'm fed up with these guys who aren't helpful or condescendingly question every purchase you make at golf shops, or starters that act like they are St. Peter at the pearly gates when you are teeing off.

 

 

Anyone else experience this? Like I said probably not enough to turn people away from golf, but certainly not helping.

 

Another "age-ist" ? LOL

 

Do you think older people have cornered the market on rudeness ?

 

You DO realize there are also many "entitled" people out there that think, because they are the customer, they are entitled to abuse and otherwise present themselves with whatever 'tude' they wish ? That the salespeople, rangers, starters, etc should be kissing their butts ?

 

i.e. these "customers" are "vibing others out".

 

Ever give any consideration to that possibility ? Your post suggests the answer is "No".

[davep043]

I don't think that this is enough to force people to walk away from the game, but I think that old and crabby guys working at golf retailers or at golf courses that are constantly vibing people out aren't helping things. While there are plenty of guys who genuinely enjoy working in the golf business and are great deal with, there are a ton of guys who seem pissed off about their lot in life that they still have to work when they should be retired, playing golf at a private course, etc. that seem to want to make life miserable for customers. I'm fed up with these guys who aren't helpful or condescendingly question every purchase you make at golf shops, or starters that act like they are St. Peter at the pearly gates when you are teeing off.

 

 

Anyone else experience this? Like I said probably not enough to turn people away from golf, but certainly not helping.

Yeah, I remember a bunch of those guys when I used to go to Myrtle Beach every spring. Like, in the late-1980s. When I was in my late 20s to early 30s. When we would show up late to the first tee, still half drunk, and completely full of ourselves, but it was the starter who was the problem. I don't think that dynamic has changed. And thinking back, I remember many more times when the staff, the pro, starter, marshals, were all welcoming and informative and genuinely nice guys.

 

And really, I'm not accusing anyone here of being like I was back then (not always, but at least occasionally), but there has always been a bit of a clash between generations, between customers and staff. In my experience, it hasn't gotten appreciably worse, and I can't believe its a specific reason for people leaving golf. In fact, the majority of staff in and around golf mostly behave in a way that would tend to KEEP me playing.

[brianolson32]

I don't think that this is enough to force people to walk away from the game, but I think that old and crabby guys working at golf retailers or at golf courses that are constantly vibing people out aren't helping things. While there are plenty of guys who genuinely enjoy working in the golf business and are great deal with, there are a ton of guys who seem pissed off about their lot in life that they still have to work when they should be retired, playing golf at a private course, etc. that seem to want to make life miserable for customers. I'm fed up with these guys who aren't helpful or condescendingly question every purchase you make at golf shops, or starters that act like they are St. Peter at the pearly gates when you are teeing off.

 

 

Anyone else experience this? Like I said probably not enough to turn people away from golf, but certainly not helping.

 

Another "age-ist" ? LOL

 

Do you think older people have cornered the market on rudeness ?

 

You DO realize there are also many "entitled" people out there that think, because they are the customer, they are entitled to abuse and otherwise present themselves with whatever 'tude' they wish ? That the salespeople, rangers, starters, etc should be kissing their butts ?

 

i.e. these "customers" are "vibing others out".

 

Ever give any consideration to that possibility ? Your post suggests the answer is "No".

 

C'mon man of course I know that there are plenty of young guys out there that act like entitled morons who think that just because they paid their greens fee that they should be given carte blanche at the course. Those guys suck too, and could also be a big reason for people walking away from the game. But I'm not wrong with my initial post, and just because rude, condescending jerks exist at every age demo doesn't excuse the behavior.

[brianolson32]

I don't think that this is enough to force people to walk away from the game, but I think that old and crabby guys working at golf retailers or at golf courses that are constantly vibing people out aren't helping things. While there are plenty of guys who genuinely enjoy working in the golf business and are great deal with, there are a ton of guys who seem pissed off about their lot in life that they still have to work when they should be retired, playing golf at a private course, etc. that seem to want to make life miserable for customers. I'm fed up with these guys who aren't helpful or condescendingly question every purchase you make at golf shops, or starters that act like they are St. Peter at the pearly gates when you are teeing off.

 

 

Anyone else experience this? Like I said probably not enough to turn people away from golf, but certainly not helping.

Yeah, I remember a bunch of those guys when I used to go to Myrtle Beach every spring. Like, in the late-1980s. When I was in my late 20s to early 30s. When we would show up late to the first tee, still half drunk, and completely full of ourselves, but it was the starter who was the problem. I don't think that dynamic has changed. And thinking back, I remember many more times when the staff, the pro, starter, marshals, were all welcoming and informative and genuinely nice guys.

 

And really, I'm not accusing anyone here of being like I was back then (not always, but at least occasionally), but there has always been a bit of a clash between generations, between customers and staff. In my experience, it hasn't gotten appreciably worse, and I can't believe its a specific reason for people leaving golf. In fact, the majority of staff in and around golf mostly behave in a way that would tend to KEEP me playing.

You're right there are a lot of great people who work in the golf business, in fact it was a couple of older guys (by the way I'm not exactly a super young guy at 30) who actually got me into golf and have helped push me from the terrible beginner I was 6 years ago to a ~5 hcp today. It's just like in any customer service experience though that you remember bad experiences much more vividly than the good ones.

[Mikey5e]

Has slow play been mentioned yet?

[Tim Schoch]

Typical of today. We are trying generalize about a segment of the population as being harmful or turning us into victims. a******* are everywhere, so are good people, so are whiners and entitled babies. If you want to be a victim of some old grouch EARN IT....speak up to THEM, prove how wrong they are to their face. Have some rocks and self-esteem. If not, tough. This ain't the #METOO of golf shop part-timers. Can't believe it.

[acemandrake]

Pros in the 1960's/70's (Tour & Club) were a crusty bunch of guys.

 

That's as far back as I can remember :golfer:

[Golfer4Life]

After reading some of the posts in this thread, I can see why people would walk away as fast as they could, lol.....Some gems of human beings, lol....

[billh17]

Millenial (born 1983-2000) that makes that cohort 18-35. JMTC's-That age group does not have money for golf. They seem to be a very low impact cohort for the golf industry. They might be golfers later in life...but today...

 

I started golf late in life-Still working, kid out of the house...and the wife took it up with me. We are not members of a club. We play munis or other courses open to public golfing. We have time to play a couple times a week. Vacation now includes golfing usually with family.

 

Every where we play, it is very busy. The majority of courses we play have no housing component. They are older woodland style courses.

 

Courses closing? Courses losing membership?

 

Yup. They are in our area. It appears to be driven by two things. Boomers are dying, effecting private membership courses. Courses are introducing all kinds of lower pricing to increase membership. Annual memberships are selling for ridiculous prices on kijiji ...and... courses built with a residential component are not selling and are failing. Two have plowed over the course to introduce new development proposals.

 

Golf is no different than any other industry-greed will over build/over supply (Boomers started to have disposable income and maybe Tiger moved the needle)-demographics effect industry and economic hits will effect any sector that needs disposable income.

 

Golf is dying. Slow play is increasing due to too many golfers-Golf is too busy. It's probably a very regional driven thing.

 

Fair assessment. But I think golf popularity is more regional in combination with the wealth within the area, and not having to deal with seasonal golf. I'm right now spending much more time in La Quinta near PGA West, and about a zillion other courses. The cost now is low due to temps, so courses aren't busy. But in the "winter" months the prices go berserk, and it's hard to get a tee time for under $150 on a decent course. "World money" comes into the Cochella Valley and blows up everything. Same for SoCal coastal. I bet WRMiller out in AZ runs into the same in the Scottsdale area with tons of great golf courses.

 

Don't play the Scottsdale courses much anymore, as I'm three hours away. I do play in Tucson though, with Tucson National being my favorite. I play in the Summer (early of course) when rates are down. In the Winter, rates there (and all of the local courses for that matter) shoot through the roof for the yearly migration of the well-to-do Snow Birds.

 

And the courses are packed...

 

Then you get my drift about the Palm Springs area golf. Same thing. Cheap then thru the roof. GD snow birds.

If it wasn't for those snowbirds,your course would probably be closed,and you might have to play a muni course...maybe you should

shake a snowbirds hand for giving you a course to play cheaply when they go home

[bblack_91240]

This is a game that I just couldn’t give up! Sure it takes a lot of time to play 18 and it definitely isn’t the cheapest hobby.

 

While the price of new clubs is crazy, if you wait to buy the end of year leftovers right after the new models come out then you’re saving some serious dough. They’re still going to be phenomenal clubs because let’s face it, the gains from year to year are so minimal. No one is forcing you to go buy new every year!

 

Some golf etiquette would go a long way. Stop spending forever looking for a ball that’s gone. Glad it’s 3min max now. Also, you don’t need to wait for the green to clear from 250 out when you smoked your driver 220... Ready golf!

[Golfer4Life]

This is a game that I just couldn’t give up! Sure it takes a lot of time to play 18 and it definitely isn’t the cheapest hobby.

 

While the price of new clubs is crazy, if you wait to buy the end of year leftovers right after the new models come out then you’re saving some serious dough. They’re still going to be phenomenal clubs because let’s face it, the gains from year to year are so minimal. No one is forcing you to go buy new every year!

 

Some golf etiquette would go a long way. Stop spending forever looking for a ball that’s gone. Glad it’s 3min max now. Also, you don’t need to wait for the green to clear from 250 out when you smoked your driver 220... Ready golf!

 

This is a game that I just couldn’t give up! Sure it takes a lot of time to play 18 and it definitely isn’t the cheapest hobby.

 

While the price of new clubs is crazy, if you wait to buy the end of year leftovers right after the new models come out then you’re saving some serious dough. They’re still going to be phenomenal clubs because let’s face it, the gains from year to year are so minimal. No one is forcing you to go buy new every year!

 

Some golf etiquette would go a long way. Stop spending forever looking for a ball that’s gone. Glad it’s 3min max now. Also, you don’t need to wait for the green to clear from 250 out when you smoked your driver 220... Ready golf!

 

What about if I smoked my driver 220.5? Lol....good points!