Thoughts on why people are walking away from the game...

[BB28403]

There is greed everywhere you look. The top 500 S&P companies made an average of 23% profit in 2018. And instead of giving us a break. They all have decided to raise prices.

 

Thanks top 500 companies. From golf balls to leather. Going up!

[FourTops]

There is greed everywhere you look. The top 500 S&P companies made an average of 23% profit in 2018. And instead of giving us a break. They all have decided to raise prices.

 

Thanks top 500 companies. From golf balls to leather. Going up!

 

You should have entered the stock market betting on the S&P 500 index because you'd be much farther ahead vs. complaining about getting a break...whatever that means.

[BB28403]

There is greed everywhere you look. The top 500 S&P companies made an average of 23% profit in 2018. And instead of giving us a break. They all have decided to raise prices.

 

Thanks top 500 companies. From golf balls to leather. Going up!

 

You should have entered the stock market betting on the S&P 500 index because you'd be much farther ahead vs. complaining about getting a break...whatever that means.

 

Who says I am not in the stock market? I still would enjoy paying less and saving money for the products I purchase.

 

If I had a 25% increase in profit at my business. My first instinct is not to rob everyone and raise prices. That is the definition of greed.

 

And who doesn’t know what getting a break is?

It’s the Kit Kat candy bar slogan. Haha

[Bonneville85308]

I would think that an innovative course owner in today's market would figure out a way to value people's time better but I haven't seen it happen. Guarantee a round in 4 hours or less on weekend mornings through strict ranger enforcement and 9-10 minute tee times, let twosomes play nine holes at a nine hole rate starting off the back nine early in the morning, have twosomes only at tighter tee time intervals for the first hour of play in the morning, etc. Build a reputation as a place that doesn't tolerate slow play. Maybe I am the minority but I would pay more for that experience, the slow people can go elsewhere. Anecdotally I know many people who are short on time and would pay a few extra bucks to avoid the chance of a 5+ hour round. They can't play often but when they do they don't have all day for it.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I would think that an innovative course owner in today's market would figure out a way to value people's time better but I haven't seen it happen. Guarantee a round in 4 hours or less on weekend mornings through strict ranger enforcement and 9-10 minute tee times, let twosomes play nine holes at a nine hole rate starting off the back nine early in the morning, have twosomes only at tighter tee time intervals for the first hour of play in the morning, etc. Build a reputation as a place that doesn't tolerate slow play. Maybe I am the minority but I would pay more for that experience, the slow people can go elsewhere. Anecdotally I know many people who are short on time and would pay a few extra bucks to avoid the chance of a 5+ hour round. They can't play often but when they do they don't have all day for it.

Agreed. I was astounding to here there are actually courses that don't offer 9 hole rates. Guess they don't want the late day 9 holer working man's money.

 

Courses should have rates for less than 9 holes. I've seen it but most don't.

[CMCSGolf]

I would think that an innovative course owner in today's market would figure out a way to value people's time better but I haven't seen it happen. Guarantee a round in 4 hours or less on weekend mornings through strict ranger enforcement and 9-10 minute tee times, let twosomes play nine holes at a nine hole rate starting off the back nine early in the morning, have twosomes only at tighter tee time intervals for the first hour of play in the morning, etc. Build a reputation as a place that doesn't tolerate slow play. Maybe I am the minority but I would pay more for that experience, the slow people can go elsewhere. Anecdotally I know many people who are short on time and would pay a few extra bucks to avoid the chance of a 5+ hour round. They can't play often but when they do they don't have all day for it.

 

Agree. It could be fairly tough to regulate because if one group slows down it hurts every group behind it, so who do you penalize for slow play? Do you make every group move up to the correct spot on the course? There could be a solution but it might be complicated.

 

An easier and quicker nudge in the right direction would be to offer $10 coupons to any group that finishes in under 4 hours. If you can make it back to the pro shop within 4 hours of your tee time, $10 off your next round at the course. This would have the benefit of incentivising fast play, no cost if play is not fast, and would bring in repeat customers to use the coupon. Seems like a good place to start to see if play can be sped up.

[FourTops]

There is greed everywhere you look. The top 500 S&P companies made an average of 23% profit in 2018. And instead of giving us a break. They all have decided to raise prices.

 

Thanks top 500 companies. From golf balls to leather. Going up!

 

You should have entered the stock market betting on the S&P 500 index because you'd be much farther ahead vs. complaining about getting a break...whatever that means.

 

Who says I am not in the stock market? I still would enjoy paying less and saving money for the products I purchase.

 

If I had a 25% increase in profit at my business. My first instinct is not to rob everyone and raise prices. That is the definition of greed.

 

And who doesn’t know what getting a break is?

It’s the Kit Kat candy bar slogan. Haha

 

If I had a 25% increase in profit i would reinvest for expansion and hire more people. It's not robbing anyone if your company has products people desire at the offered price.

[braincramp52]

I don't know, when I talk to customers of mine who used to golf , I rarely hear that length of rounds is the problem. Most have quit because they suck at it. Who wants to spend good money to spend 4 hours frustrating themselves ?

[MelloYello]

I don't know, when I talk to customers of mine who used to golf , I rarely hear that length of rounds is the problem. Most have quit because they suck at it. Who wants to spend good money to spend 4 hours frustrating themselves ?

 

I have to believe this.

 

As I continue to say, golf is simply too hard and too boring for most folks.

 

 

I was behind a terribly slow group this past weekend - two fat guys and their inexperienced wives. I understand how frustrating that sort of occurrence can be and that it's far more common on big-city courses, but it's still an issue that mostly affects avid players...

 

...after all, it's not the inexperienced player who's hacking it down the fairway in 10 shots that complains how he/she took 5 hours to play! It's the avid player stuck behind them who complains.

[BB28403]

I don't know, when I talk to customers of mine who used to golf , I rarely hear that length of rounds is the problem. Most have quit because they suck at it. Who wants to spend good money to spend 4 hours frustrating themselves ?

 

I have to believe this.

 

As I continue to say, golf is simply too hard and too boring for most folks.

 

 

I was behind a terribly slow group this past weekend - two fat guys and their inexperienced wives. I understand how frustrating that sort of occurrence can be and that it's far more common on big-city courses, but it's still an issue that mostly affects avid players...

 

...after all, it's not the inexperienced player who's hacking it down the fairway in 10 shots that complains how he/she took 5 hours to play! It's the avid player stuck behind them who complains.

 

I agree with you, there are so many small negative occurrences that happen at a golf course. They happen no where else in life, it seems like the person making my Starbucks is always happy. Why can’t they work at the course?

And yes, people turn into the biggest jerks on a golf course. Ever get that golfer attitude from another group? I just want to call them out like an episode of curb your enthusiasm

 

[Bonneville85308]

One thing I don't understand is why many courses seem more hesitant to annoy an inexperienced/infrequent player or group who is slow who may never come back regardless of being told to speed it up, rather than to cater to the avid players/regulars who are more likely to give lots of repeat business to a well-managed course. If I ran the course I'd rather have 8 groups of happy regulars who give me steady business because I enforce pace strictly rather than pandering to one slow group that plays 2x a year by not telling them to speed up or leave and having the regulars behind them all ticked off.

[Mikey5e]

 

"Thoughts on why people are walking away from the game"

 

music on the course

[HatsForBats]

"Thoughts on why people are walking away from the game"

 

music on the course

 

I would rather dance with the sinners than walk with saints.... as long as the sinners keep it at a low volume.

[FourTops]

Want to clear out a course? Blast ABBA or Osmonds from a pair of Bose speakers powered by a DieHard battery.

[Mikey5e]

Want to clear out a course? Blast ABBA or Osmonds from a pair of Bose speakers powered by a DieHard battery.

lol

[EKELLY]

My father is a member at a club that may do 40 rounds a day on a weekday, 50 on the weekend. They don't care if anybody plays! And yes, it's perfectly manicured. So not everyone cares if people are walking away or not taking up golf, especially when we blitzed it 3 hours a few weeks ago.....lol

[BB28403]

My father is a member at a club that may do 40 rounds a day on a weekday, 50 on the weekend. They don't care if anybody plays! And yes, it's perfectly manicured. So not everyone cares if people are walking away or not taking up golf, especially when we blitzed it 3 hours a few weeks ago.....lol

 

40 rounds of golf a day? Wow!

[Pepperturbo]

There are many reasons as to why some walk away from golf, but what I have noticed amongst most of my friends is that it is time consuming and can be financially straining. I have lost many playing partners because they are starting a new family, I would be lucky to see them out on the course ONCE A MONTH. Courses around me range anywhere from $45-$60 walking and to get out every weekend, that would set you back ~$200/month and that doesn’t even include range cost. That’s money that could be used towards something else for their family i.e day care, home improvements, family vacations, kids clothes....etc.

 

. I think these can be a big factor as to why many walk away from the sport forever or temporarily. Golf is a luxury sport that can’t be enjoyed by many forever. I am lucky to have the money to spare for the sport, but my time has been cut in half or maybe more because I also fall into the category of starting a new family.

 

I agree. When people take up a hobby, they want to be able to enjoy the hobby in some manner, weekly if possible. But saving for the future and family expenses take priority. Most responsible youth starting careers have to evaluate costs especially if they have a wife/family. Honestly, that doesn't leave much money or time for the demands of golf.

 

My married millennial son is a new father. He works long hours and does well and plays golf but infrequently, and I cover costs and let him use my backup bag. Though his wife works, they are saving to buy a house which takes 60k-90k cash, so not much is left for expensive hobbies. Rent in SOCA for an apt/condo is +/- 2k also. His buddies and colleagues dabble too, but not very often, maybe 2-3 times a year. They say it's too expensive but the amount of time needed to be a decent golfer is just too much. Average round of golf in CA on weekends is +/- 5hrs. :beach:

[wrmiller]

There are many reasons as to why some walk away from golf, but what I have noticed amongst most of my friends is that it is time consuming and can be financially straining. I have lost many playing partners because they are starting a new family, I would be lucky to see them out on the course ONCE A MONTH. Courses around me range anywhere from $45-$60 walking and to get out every weekend, that would set you back ~$200/month and that doesn’t even include range cost. That’s money that could be used towards something else for their family i.e day care, home improvements, family vacations, kids clothes....etc.

 

. I think these can be a big factor as to why many walk away from the sport forever or temporarily. Golf is a luxury sport that can’t be enjoyed by many forever. I am lucky to have the money to spare for the sport, but my time has been cut in half or maybe more because I also fall into the category of starting a new family.

 

I agree. When people take up a hobby, they want to be able to enjoy the hobby in some manner, weekly if possible. But saving for the future and family expenses take priority. Most responsible youth starting careers have to evaluate costs especially if they have a wife/family. Honestly, that doesn't leave much money or time for the demands of golf.

 

My married millennial son is a new father. He works long hours and does well and plays golf but infrequently, and I cover costs and let him use my backup bag. Though his wife works, they are saving to buy a house which takes 60k-90k cash, so not much is left for expensive hobbies. Rent in SOCA for an apt/condo is +/- 2k also. His buddies and colleagues dabble too, but not very often, maybe 2-3 times a year. They say it's too expensive but the amount of time needed to be a decent golfer is just too much. Average round of golf in CA on weekends is +/- 5hrs. :beach:

 

Wow. I guess I didn't realize how bad things had gotten I guess.

 

By the late 80s I had ditched the first wife (no kids), had a budding career as a firmware engineer, a modest house (VA loan), a car, a sportbike or two, and played golf every weekend at least once. I even had time/money for other hobbies as well.

 

All on somewhere between 60-70k a year salary. I wasn't rich, but I managed to enjoy myself. Not so sure I could do all that now though.

 

I've told my kids often that I don't envy them in this day and age. :(

[2ball]

No way is equipment cost keeping people away. More equipment than ever is available at bargain prices. No one needs to buy the newest, unless that's what you want.

 

Also if you really want bargains the used market is even better and available via more sales channels than ever.

 

As for greens fees, outside of big metros, most areas of the USA greens fees arent bad. In WNY you can walk 18 on decent courses for $25-$40... Thats less than $10/hour for entertainment.

 

agree the internet has made it really inexpensive to aquire good equipment, so much so that big box stores have gone out of business.

[2ball]

There are many reasons as to why some walk away from golf, but what I have noticed amongst most of my friends is that it is time consuming and can be financially straining. I have lost many playing partners because they are starting a new family, I would be lucky to see them out on the course ONCE A MONTH. Courses around me range anywhere from $45-$60 walking and to get out every weekend, that would set you back ~$200/month and that doesn’t even include range cost. That’s money that could be used towards something else for their family i.e day care, home improvements, family vacations, kids clothes....etc.

 

. I think these can be a big factor as to why many walk away from the sport forever or temporarily. Golf is a luxury sport that can’t be enjoyed by many forever. I am lucky to have the money to spare for the sport, but my time has been cut in half or maybe more because I also fall into the category of starting a new family.

 

I agree. When people take up a hobby, they want to be able to enjoy the hobby in some manner, weekly if possible. But saving for the future and family expenses take priority. Most responsible youth starting careers have to evaluate costs especially if they have a wife/family. Honestly, that doesn't leave much money or time for the demands of golf.

 

My married millennial son is a new father. He works long hours and does well and plays golf but infrequently, and I cover costs and let him use my backup bag. Though his wife works, they are saving to buy a house which takes 60k-90k cash, so not much is left for expensive hobbies. Rent in SOCA for an apt/condo is +/- 2k also. His buddies and colleagues dabble too, but not very often, maybe 2-3 times a year. They say it's too expensive but the amount of time needed to be a decent golfer is just too much. Average round of golf in CA on weekends is +/- 5hrs. :beach:

 

Southern Cal is really expensive and an average round is about $85.00, weekends are on average $105.00 in Orange County. A large bucket of balls is $15.00. When I lived in the western burbs of illinois i could play 18 holes for $29.00. Times are different now, i didn't play an organized sport unless the park district offered it or my school. I didn't play footbal until 6th grade, basketball- 5th grade (when the school offered it). My parents weren't concerned with "...what can we do for lil Timmy so he isn't bored, he needs activiites..." I went ouside and played thats what kids did. If you have kids who are involved in a sport or activity that is where your disposable income will go. Club softball or soccer you are looking at $2300 a year per child.

[CMCSGolf]

There are many reasons as to why some walk away from golf, but what I have noticed amongst most of my friends is that it is time consuming and can be financially straining. I have lost many playing partners because they are starting a new family, I would be lucky to see them out on the course ONCE A MONTH. Courses around me range anywhere from $45-$60 walking and to get out every weekend, that would set you back ~$200/month and that doesn’t even include range cost. That’s money that could be used towards something else for their family i.e day care, home improvements, family vacations, kids clothes....etc.

 

. I think these can be a big factor as to why many walk away from the sport forever or temporarily. Golf is a luxury sport that can’t be enjoyed by many forever. I am lucky to have the money to spare for the sport, but my time has been cut in half or maybe more because I also fall into the category of starting a new family.

 

I agree. When people take up a hobby, they want to be able to enjoy the hobby in some manner, weekly if possible. But saving for the future and family expenses take priority. Most responsible youth starting careers have to evaluate costs especially if they have a wife/family. Honestly, that doesn't leave much money or time for the demands of golf.

 

My married millennial son is a new father. He works long hours and does well and plays golf but infrequently, and I cover costs and let him use my backup bag. Though his wife works, they are saving to buy a house which takes 60k-90k cash, so not much is left for expensive hobbies. Rent in SOCA for an apt/condo is +/- 2k also. His buddies and colleagues dabble too, but not very often, maybe 2-3 times a year. They say it's too expensive but the amount of time needed to be a decent golfer is just too much. Average round of golf in CA on weekends is +/- 5hrs. :beach:

 

Wow. I guess I didn't realize how bad things had gotten I guess.

 

By the late 80s I had ditched the first wife (no kids), had a budding career as a firmware engineer, a modest house (VA loan), a car, a sportbike or two, and played golf every weekend at least once. I even had time/money for other hobbies as well.

 

All on somewhere between 60-70k a year salary. I wasn't rich, but I managed to enjoy myself. Not so sure I could do all that now though.

 

I've told my kids often that I don't envy them in this day and age. :(

 

Making $70K in 1985 was doing more than OK. That comes out to over $160K adjusted for inflation (http://www.in2013dollars.com/1985-dollars-in-2018?amount=70000). Golf can be played cheaply if it's a priority. A lot of the young people who say golf is too expensive won't bat an eye at a $100 bar tab. Millenials do not value living in the suburbs as much as previous generations, they own fewer cars, they live in denser cities. All of these things make golf more difficult to come by.

 

Honestly, if golf pitched itself as exercise it would do way better with 20 - 30 year olds. Millenials are all about biking and hiking or crossfit, if you told them about the health benefits of walking a 7 mile course, I bet you could get the fitness crowd into the game. So many people I play with ride in a cart, then go to the gym after. A little confusing to me...

[Mikey5e]

There are many reasons as to why some walk away from golf, but what I have noticed amongst most of my friends is that it is time consuming and can be financially straining. I have lost many playing partners because they are starting a new family, I would be lucky to see them out on the course ONCE A MONTH. Courses around me range anywhere from $45-$60 walking and to get out every weekend, that would set you back ~$200/month and that doesn’t even include range cost. That’s money that could be used towards something else for their family i.e day care, home improvements, family vacations, kids clothes....etc.

 

. I think these can be a big factor as to why many walk away from the sport forever or temporarily. Golf is a luxury sport that can’t be enjoyed by many forever. I am lucky to have the money to spare for the sport, but my time has been cut in half or maybe more because I also fall into the category of starting a new family.

 

I agree. When people take up a hobby, they want to be able to enjoy the hobby in some manner, weekly if possible. But saving for the future and family expenses take priority. Most responsible youth starting careers have to evaluate costs especially if they have a wife/family. Honestly, that doesn't leave much money or time for the demands of golf.

 

My married millennial son is a new father. He works long hours and does well and plays golf but infrequently, and I cover costs and let him use my backup bag. Though his wife works, they are saving to buy a house which takes 60k-90k cash, so not much is left for expensive hobbies. Rent in SOCA for an apt/condo is +/- 2k also. His buddies and colleagues dabble too, but not very often, maybe 2-3 times a year. They say it's too expensive but the amount of time needed to be a decent golfer is just too much. Average round of golf in CA on weekends is +/- 5hrs. :beach:

I understand what you are saying, but I Think Through the Ages, golfers could say the same thing. Money's always been a difficult thing to come by for the majority of the population, but somehow people still golf. You don't have to join a country club or the likes, find a cheap municipal course as your main course and have some fun.

[FourTops]

There are many reasons as to why some walk away from golf, but what I have noticed amongst most of my friends is that it is time consuming and can be financially straining. I have lost many playing partners because they are starting a new family, I would be lucky to see them out on the course ONCE A MONTH. Courses around me range anywhere from $45-$60 walking and to get out every weekend, that would set you back ~$200/month and that doesn’t even include range cost. That’s money that could be used towards something else for their family i.e day care, home improvements, family vacations, kids clothes....etc. . I think these can be a big factor as to why many walk away from the sport forever or temporarily. Golf is a luxury sport that can’t be enjoyed by many forever. I am lucky to have the money to spare for the sport, but my time has been cut in half or maybe more because I also fall into the category of starting a new family.

I agree. When people take up a hobby, they want to be able to enjoy the hobby in some manner, weekly if possible. But saving for the future and family expenses take priority. Most responsible youth starting careers have to evaluate costs especially if they have a wife/family. Honestly, that doesn't leave much money or time for the demands of golf. My married millennial son is a new father. He works long hours and does well and plays golf but infrequently, and I cover costs and let him use my backup bag. Though his wife works, they are saving to buy a house which takes 60k-90k cash, so not much is left for expensive hobbies. Rent in SOCA for an apt/condo is +/- 2k also. His buddies and colleagues dabble too, but not very often, maybe 2-3 times a year. They say it's too expensive but the amount of time needed to be a decent golfer is just too much. Average round of golf in CA on weekends is +/- 5hrs. :beach:

Southern Cal is really expensive and an average round is about $85.00, weekends are on average $105.00 in Orange County. A large bucket of balls is $15.00. When I lived in the western burbs of illinois i could play 18 holes for $29.00. Times are different now, i didn't play an organized sport unless the park district offered it or my school. I didn't play footbal until 6th grade, basketball- 5th grade (when the school offered it). My parents weren't concerned with "...what can we do for lil Timmy so he isn't bored, he needs activiites..." I went ouside and played thats what kids did. If you have kids who are involved in a sport or activity that is where your disposable income will go. Club softball or soccer you are looking at $2300 a year per child.

 

You nailed the major topics. I go back/forth to Socal.....and I can say for sure it's not a stretch to join a private CC because the cost of rounds at public courses along with 5.5 hour rounds becomes an "equilibrium" calculation. If you know Tustin Ranch GC, the cost for 300 balls is at least $60...AND...the course charges well over $125 on the weekends because they can get it...but the only redeeming value is the course is always in tip-top shape. So when folks get into discussions about joining a private club vs. public golf...keep in mind the Socal folks are in a whole different world of cost.

[wrmiller]

I left Socal in '92 and it was getting bad (expensive) then. People I know who have been there recently tell me to never go back and just hang onto my memories, because it's not the place I remember.

 

But then that could be said for pretty much anywhere I guess.

[AndersUK]

There is little wrong with golf. Cheap clubs, new and used are readily available and people are willing to allocate time to play. From personal experience and that of family and friends, the issue is more to do with some golfers rather than the game itself. I have participated in a few sports in my time but never encountered as many Word not allowedhats than in golf.

 

I have personally been on the receiving end of intimidation, bulling and members that thrive on lording it over other members either because they think they are better players or are just the "I've been a member here for over 15 years so I can do what I like" type. My partner and I left a club for this reason and the fact that ladies were not permitted on the course before 10:00, which we didn't know until after we signed up and paid.

 

They are many aspiring hacks looking to take up the game but then quit shortly after not because of lack of progress but because they are sometimes made to feel out of place.

 

For kids, it just need to be more fun. I cringe every time I see dad raising his voice with son or daughter at the range when attempting to coach them when he can barely swing the club himself.

[Under2hours]

There is little wrong with golf. Cheap clubs, new and used are readily available and people are willing to allocate time to play. From personal experience and that of family and friends, the issue is more to do with some golfers rather than the game itself. I have participated in a few sports in my time but never encountered as many Word not allowedhats than in golf.

 

I have personally been on the receiving end of intimidation, bulling and members that thrive on lording it over other members either because they think they are better players or are just the "I've been a member here for over 15 years so I can do what I like" type. My partner and I left a club for this reason and the fact that ladies were not permitted on the course before 10:00, which we didn't know until after we signed up and paid.

 

They are many aspiring hacks looking to take up the game but then quit shortly after not because of lack of progress but because they are sometimes made to feel out of place.

 

For kids, it just need to be more fun. I cringe every time I see dad raising his voice with son or daughter at the range when attempting to coach them when he can barely swing the club himself.

 

Yep make the game fun, not tedious & monotonous. Sorry 5 hour rounds are ridiculous, and should be no more then 3:45. I'm all for music and having fun on the course and keep it moving.

 

I love the early hours POP enforcement, which would then open up the rest of the day too.

 

People just don't have time (though they find it to tailgate, fish & hunt it seems).

 

BTW you see bicyclists out at 7:00 am and done at 1:00, not 10:00-4:00..... Golf mid-day kills your day and family life.

[nix]

I think people are less willing to dedicate time to themselves and their personal enjoyment. They feel selfish for spending 4 hours away from family. People should be encouraged to take some me-time at the expense of family time. It's not a bad thing.

[Spirit76]

Reason #1 by far is The Tiger Effect. I think this year has been a healing year for the game which has corresponded to Tiger's own healing and resurgent play. He needs to win a major again and I think he'll bag one of the first two in 2019. That alone will greatly reduce the mass exodus of 4M golfers per year.

 

Reason #2 is the expense of actually playing the game. There are a lot of second and third tier public courses out there that have continued to raise their already high greens fees year over year. Course maintenance has greatly fallen by the wayside on those courses further reducing the enjoyment of the game.

[youngstructural]

People don't walk away from golf they take carts. Lol.

 

See what I did there.