Obee's Putting Improvement Thread

[Jimi Thing]

Struggle with the same, although my struggle range already starts outside 3 ft. Curious to what insights pop up here. 

[MelloYello]

There are a host of things you could look into. I'd recommend starting with basic stuff and working towards the habitual / mental stuff at the end:

 

#1 - Green-reading

Are you in fact getting the read correct from mid-range? You might try paying particular attention to the final 3rd of the putt or what's going to happen inside that last 3-ft. It's uncommon to be way off from mid-range. Most people catch the lip or miss on the edge. Figuring out exactly what the putt does at the end is critical. 

 

#2 - Miss Pattern(s)

Are you missing with bad speed or just not getting the right line? Do you miss left? Right? Do you have habitual problems setting up open/closed, etc. Look into all that stuff and look for tendencies. 

 

#3 - Pre-Shot Routine

Try and look at what all you're doing before you hit a putt and make sure you're consistent and timely once you've selected a line. Tons of stuff to think about in this area. You just want to find what works for you. Be mindful of how you look at a putt, how you take your practice strokes, how you get into the stance, etc. 

[Obee]

5 hours ago, CMCSGolf said:

I have a question for the group on how to improve mid range putting.  I'm a low handicap player who was a poor putter that turned himself into a slightly below average putter.  I used to experiment with putters and grips all the time, but have stuck with the same putter the last three seasons and a left hand low technique.  Overall, I'm satisfied with my putting because I am a good lag putter and a good putter from 6 feet and in, so I rarely three putt.

 

The issue comes with 6-15 feet.  I make almost none of these putts.  I've kept details stats recently and I am +0.24 SG inside 6 feet, -0.86 SG from 7-10 feet, and -1.02 SG from 10-15 feet.  I have a slight bias to missing left on mid range putts and I think my putts are hit with good speed.

 

So how do I make more 7-15 footers?  If I'm technically sound enough to be good from inside 6 feet, I don't understand how I can't make 10 footers.  It's perplexed me for awhile now and I'd love some ideas.  

 

I would love to see some video of you putting from some of your playing partners. Just have them video you putting a few birdie looks in the range you describe....

[CMCSGolf]

4 hours ago, MelloYello said:

There are a host of things you could look into. I'd recommend starting with basic stuff and working towards the habitual / mental stuff at the end:

 

#1 - Green-reading

Are you in fact getting the read correct from mid-range? You might try paying particular attention to the final 3rd of the putt or what's going to happen inside that last 3-ft. It's uncommon to be way off from mid-range. Most people catch the lip or miss on the edge. Figuring out exactly what the putt does at the end is critical. 

 

#2 - Miss Pattern(s)

Are you missing with bad speed or just not getting the right line? Do you miss left? Right? Do you have habitual problems setting up open/closed, etc. Look into all that stuff and look for tendencies. 

 

#3 - Pre-Shot Routine

Try and look at what all you're doing before you hit a putt and make sure you're consistent and timely once you've selected a line. Tons of stuff to think about in this area. You just want to find what works for you. Be mindful of how you look at a putt, how you take your practice strokes, how you get into the stance, etc. 

I appreciate the thoughts.  Some general responses:

 

1.  I think my green reading is OK, but I think my speed may be inconsistent.  For example, I feel like I miss a dying putt just low and conclude, that was a "good putt".  Then I'll miss a putt high that goes 2.5 feet past and also conclude that was a "good putt".  Both COULD be good putts depending on what speed the putt was read at.  I think I should be more intentional about exactly what speed I'm reading the putt at.

 

2. Nothing has stood out here.  I have a tendency to pull putts, but I'm aware of it and have a focal point that keeps the face mostly square.  I believe this is not a huge issue since I'm solid on short putts.

 

3. My routine is good.  It's the one thing I have full control over and something that I am very comfortable with.  

 

All that being said, these are my perceptions of my putting which may be wrong.  @Obee, it would be great to get a few videos to see if my view is accurate...

[Ty_Webb]

6 hours ago, CMCSGolf said:

I have a question for the group on how to improve mid range putting.  I'm a low handicap player who was a poor putter that turned himself into a slightly below average putter.  I used to experiment with putters and grips all the time, but have stuck with the same putter the last three seasons and a left hand low technique.  Overall, I'm satisfied with my putting because I am a good lag putter and a good putter from 6 feet and in, so I rarely three putt.

 

The issue comes with 6-15 feet.  I make almost none of these putts.  I've kept details stats recently and I am +0.24 SG inside 6 feet, -0.86 SG from 7-10 feet, and -1.02 SG from 10-15 feet.  I have a slight bias to missing left on mid range putts and I think my putts are hit with good speed.

 

So how do I make more 7-15 footers?  If I'm technically sound enough to be good from inside 6 feet, I don't understand how I can't make 10 footers.  It's perplexed me for awhile now and I'd love some ideas.  

 

This is an interesting question. My initial reaction is if you're good from inside 6 feet, you must be good at hitting your start lines. You say you have good speed control too, so you *should* be good from 7-15 as well. It's really outside about 12 feet that speed control really comes into the higher importance level. 

 

My best guess is perhaps to do with how you align yourself. From 6 feet and in, maybe you can see the hole without twisting your head to the side. You can see it easily just by moving your eyes. From 7-15 feet, you have to move your head and perhaps the way that you're moving your head to see the hole is making you lose your alignment somehow. If your head rises at the same time as it twists, your line of sight may change and cause you to aim off. 

 

Not sure how easy this would be to detect, but if you have access to a laser, I'd spend a little time in your house through the winter, put down a target and then put the laser on your putter face and put a piece of card in between ball and target. Aim at the target as best you can and then remove the piece of card (get someone else to otherwise you'll move when you move it) and see where the laser is relative to your target. I'd do that from 5 feet and then from 10 feet and see if there is a trend to aiming in a different spot between the two.

 

If there is, then pick an intermediate target maybe 2-3 feet in front of the ball and try to roll the ball over that.

[PracticeSwinger]

18 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

My best guess is perhaps to do with how you align yourself. From 6 feet and in, maybe you can see the hole without twisting your head to the side. You can see it easily just by moving your eyes. From 7-15 feet, you have to move your head and perhaps the way that you're moving your head to see the hole is making you lose your alignment somehow. If your head rises at the same time as it twists, your line of sight may change and cause you to aim off. 

 

Not sure how easy this would be to detect, but if you have access to a laser, I'd spend a little time in your house through the winter, put down a target and then put the laser on your putter face and put a piece of card in between ball and target. Aim at the target as best you can and then remove the piece of card (get someone else to otherwise you'll move when you move it) and see where the laser is relative to your target. I'd do that from 5 feet and then from 10 feet and see if there is a trend to aiming in a different spot between the two.

Awesome tip... I was too in the same boat until last year : closer range being able to see the hole without any movement and thus confirming the aim point / line visualisation - and make rate from 10-15ft weren't on par with peers; combo of not seeing the hole, looking at it, coming back to the aim spot and subconsiously feeling like my alignment / aim was off and thus not trusting it just prior to the stroke -> not commiting to the putt, physically steering it a tad

[ewaldbeukes]

Hi all, anyone on this thread with a Broomstick putter / or that knows putting in general...

 

I set up nice and tall to the ball and am using a pendulum stroke (ie top hand -left hand doesnt move) and right hand strokes the pendulum. My miss is a hook on days when I dont putt well... anyone able to help me understand the mechanics and why this might be the case?

[CMCSGolf]

On 1/17/2023 at 9:42 AM, CMCSGolf said:

I have a question for the group on how to improve mid range putting.  I'm a low handicap player who was a poor putter that turned himself into a slightly below average putter.  I used to experiment with putters and grips all the time, but have stuck with the same putter the last three seasons and a left hand low technique.  Overall, I'm satisfied with my putting because I am a good lag putter and a good putter from 6 feet and in, so I rarely three putt.

 

The issue comes with 6-15 feet.  I make almost none of these putts.  I've kept details stats recently and I am +0.24 SG inside 6 feet, -0.86 SG from 7-10 feet, and -1.02 SG from 10-15 feet.  I have a slight bias to missing left on mid range putts and I think my putts are hit with good speed.

 

So how do I make more 7-15 footers?  If I'm technically sound enough to be good from inside 6 feet, I don't understand how I can't make 10 footers.  It's perplexed me for awhile now and I'd love some ideas.  

Coming back to this post from two months ago.  I've made some progress on mid range putts with two changes:

 

First, I started hitting 8 footers in the same way I hit 4 footers.  Hold the finish really strong, keep the head down for way too long, etc.  That helped a bit.  Secondly, I found a technical issue in my stroke.  I had a very firm/tight right elbow.  On short putts, this did not present any issues.  However, on longer putts, this forced me to keep the face closed on the backstroke and I had to compensate my opening it up on the forward stroke.  Obviously this was inconsistent.  Relaxing the right elbow allows the face to open a bit on the backstroke as it should.

 

Not enough data yet to definitively show improvement, but it feels a lot better.

[Red4282]

Ill add a recent experience of mine. Putting has always been one of my strengths. Ive had the same putter for 2 years with no reason to switch. It just worked. Until recently. Fell into a slump/ yips. It all started when i played a few courses with greens faster than I was used to. Speed control and feel just plummeted. It seemed for every two good strokes i made, i hade one that just yipped out of no where.
 

Finally out of desperation, i grabbed my sons old beat up 20 year old putter and started messing with it. Something about it seemed like it was working better. Took it to the practice green along with mine and just started a battle. What i found was pretty interesting. My normal putter was just alot “hotter” off the face. I think when i started playing the faster greens, my stroke became very tentative and seemingly “guiding it”. This older putter, I could put more of a normal stroke on it, and it speed would be about right, and not have worry about it going 10 feet by.
 

Just thought Id add this to the thread for maybe someone to think about, if anyone has ever experienced this as well. I guess I'm now more of a rotation guy with my putter.

[EMA1]

On 1/17/2023 at 8:33 AM, Obee said:

Great question. Interested to see what the group has to say. I definitely have thoughts here, as it is something that I’ve became significantly better at over the last five years.

What helped you so much in this range? Was it just rolling the ball end over end, or were there drills and the such that helped? 

[me05501]

This will sound low key crazy, but I need to adjust my PSR and mental approach toward trying to actually make putts as opposed to just finding out whether or not I made them. 
 

I know how to do this and I’ve gone through periods where I was really focused on the greens and made a lot of putts. But for some reason I always revert to this lackadaisical approach where I’m sort of putting to get putting over with. 
 

I think it comes from being obsessed with my full swing and over-practicing that part of the game. My short game is solid enough and I enjoy practicing it. A lot of my rounds are casual without much on the line. That leads me to focus on how my drives and approaches are turning out and giving the greens too little attention. 
 

 

[mshills]

A series of observations I go back to over and over. 
 

To get better at putting, there are some specific things I feel I must do.

 

One is get better at reading greens — primarily speed. This is hard because there are so many schools of thought on this. I was a longtime caddie and used to be a decent player, so I’ve always been quite confident here, but without any real science or structure. I want to take an Aimpoint class this year and get some formality. 
 

Next is setup. Identical every time. Every single time. 
 

Next, and I think most important is impact. Simply have to get a good roll on the ball. If I do that I will make more putts. The line around the ball is such a great tool for this. I focus my eye on exactly where I want to strike the back of the ball and get that thing rolling with no wobble. It’s hard, and at first it seemed like it was not helping. But feel is not real and tracking my stats last year, the more I focused on the strike and the roll, the more putts I made. 
 

Talk of feel, flow, a pretty stroke, willing the ball into the hole and so forth reminds me of the oldheads (the scouts) in Moneyball. Someone who is “clean cut” doesn’t hit the baseball more often, and similarly, you can’t “will the golf ball into the hole.” It’s about that impact and the roll. 

[Obee]

Great putting day yesterday. Our greens are 11.25 and in very nice shape. Made a small adjustment in my top hand (my left) grip, went significantly weaker with it, which enables me to feel like I'm "shoving" the ball down the line. Paid nice dividends yesterday:

1. 2-putt from 9 feet

2. 1-putt birdie from 10 feet

3. 2-putt par from 20 feet

4. 2-putt par from 24

5. 1-putt par tap-in

6. 1-putt 9-foot par save

7. 1-putt 5-foot par save

8. 1-putt 4-foot par save

9. 1-putt 1-foot par save

10. 1-putt 5-foot par save

11. 2-putt par from 25 feet

12. 2-putt par from 9 feet

13. 1-putt par save from 2-feet

14. 1-putt birdie from 2-feet

15. 1-putt par save from 18 feet

16. 1-putt birdie from 35 feet

17. 2-putt bogey from 22 feet

18. 2-putt par from 21 feet
 

That's about 100 feet of putts made. 25 official putts. Several of those 1-putts I was putting from the fringe, including two that were barely off the green.

Rolling it very well right now and my speed control is dialed in. Going to be a good tournament season!

[J295]

Please provide your insights on putter, fitting, and any recommendations.
 

My friend is a State Hall of Fame golfer and assistant college coach, and over the weekend he floated the idea that getting fitted for a putter may be just as important as getting fitted for a driver.  So we are now doing a little follow up.

 

Cross posted this in a new thread too.  
 

 

  

Edited April 24, 2023 by J295

[nitram]

18 hours ago, Obee said:

Great putting day yesterday. Our greens are 11.25 and in very nice shape. Made a small adjustment in my top hand (my left) grip, went significantly weaker with it, which enables me to feel like I'm "shoving" the ball down the line. Paid nice dividends yesterday:

1. 2-putt from 9 feet

2. 1-putt birdie from 10 feet

3. 2-putt par from 20 feet

4. 2-putt par from 24

5. 1-putt par tap-in

6. 1-putt 9-foot par save

7. 1-putt 5-foot par save

8. 1-putt 4-foot par save

9. 1-putt 1-foot par save

10. 1-putt 5-foot par save

11. 2-putt par from 25 feet

12. 2-putt par from 9 feet

13. 1-putt par save from 2-feet

14. 1-putt birdie from 2-feet

15. 1-putt par save from 18 feet

16. 1-putt birdie from 35 feet

17. 2-putt bogey from 22 feet

18. 2-putt par from 21 feet
 

That's about 100 feet of putts made. 25 official putts. Several of those 1-putts I was putting from the fringe, including two that were barely off the green.

Rolling it very well right now and my speed control is dialed in. Going to be a good tournament season!

Good stuff Dave, so how's the back these days?

[Obee]

50 minutes ago, nitram said:

Good stuff Dave, so how's the back these days?

 

Back is pretty decent. Had a flare-up of back spasms at a nice national tournament and had a WD after a first round 76, but it's been solid since. Stretching more than ever. Down 25 lbs.

 

[Obee]

1 hour ago, J295 said:

Please provide your insights on putter, fitting, and any recommendations.
 

My friend is a State Hall of Fame golfer and assistant college coach, and over the weekend he floated the idea that getting fitted for a putter may be just as important as getting fitted for a driver.  So we are now doing a little follow up.

 

Cross posted this in a new thread too.  
 

 

  

PM me and let's talk.

 

[Obee]

1 hour ago, J295 said:

Please provide your insights on putter, fitting, and any recommendations.
 

My friend is a State Hall of Fame golfer and assistant college coach, and over the weekend he floated the idea that getting fitted for a putter may be just as important as getting fitted for a driver.  So we are now doing a little follow up.

 

Cross posted this in a new thread too.  
 

 

  

 

Something to consider: 

Sometimes we fit a putter to our sh*tty stroke. 
 

It might be better to figure out a better stroke and then fit the putter to that stroke.

Does that make sense?

[J295]

26 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

Something to consider: 

Sometimes we fit a putter to our sh*tty stroke. 
 

It might be better to figure out a better stroke and then fit the putter to that stroke.

Does that make sense?

Agree and that makes sense. Actually in my case, I took your advice a couple of years ago and developed a solid stroke (confirmed in part by line on ball rolling straight end over end).   
 

Some of what I’m finding in the initial due diligence is that putter design (head, lines, shaft, loft) can impact visual/alignment… And alignment is something I’m working on. 

[Patnachts]

15 minutes ago, J295 said:

Agree and that makes sense. Actually in my case, I took your advice a couple of years ago and developed a solid stroke (confirmed in part by line on ball rolling straight end over end).   
 

Some of what I’m finding in the initial due diligence is that putter design (head, lines, shaft, loft) can impact visual/alignment… And alignment is something I’m working on. 

I cannot express how helpful a putter laser is for alignment. Shows exactly where you are aiming.

[J295]

3 minutes ago, Patnachts said:

I cannot express how helpful a putter laser is for alignment. Shows exactly where you are aiming.

Agree and thank you for sharing. The laser is how I discovered my consistent slight left aim, and now I’m tinkering to adjust so that not only is the aim correct, but that a correct aim feels and looks centered to me. 

[D0ch0l1d4y]

9 hours ago, Patnachts said:

I cannot express how helpful a putter laser is for alignment. Shows exactly where you are aiming.

 

9 hours ago, J295 said:

Agree and thank you for sharing. The laser is how I discovered my consistent slight left aim, and now I’m tinkering to adjust so that not only is the aim correct, but that a correct aim feels and looks centered to me. 

What laser do you guys recommend?

 

[J295]

14 hours ago, D0ch0l1d4y said:

 

What laser do you guys recommend?

 

I use a standard device my spouse uses in her real estate work to measure room distances. Align putter then set device down at face towards hole to see aim (with 2x4 behind hole to capture beam).  

Edited April 25, 2023 by J295

[Patnachts]

On 4/24/2023 at 8:17 PM, D0ch0l1d4y said:

 

What laser do you guys recommend?

 

Any of the ones on amazon work pretty well. The one I have is slanted slightly downward so it leaves a line on the ground and there is no need for the 2x4.

[Hawkeye77]

On 4/24/2023 at 7:17 PM, D0ch0l1d4y said:

 

What laser do you guys recommend?

 

I have one from SGG (Short Game Gains) - like it.

[CMCSGolf]

@ObeeI know you've said it somewhere before, but I can't find it - What does closing the stance do for you?  I was playing around with this recently and the putts were coming off really nice (the line rolling end over end).  However, when I did the gate drill, I kept hitting the tee with the heel of my putter.    Appreciate your thoughts as always.

[Obee]

4 hours ago, CMCSGolf said:

@ObeeI know you've said it somewhere before, but I can't find it - What does closing the stance do for you?  I was playing around with this recently and the putts were coming off really nice (the line rolling end over end).  However, when I did the gate drill, I kept hitting the tee with the heel of my putter.    Appreciate your thoughts as always.

Closing my stance helped me get my shoulders and forearm line parallel to my starting line. Without closing my stance, my shoulders and forearm line always aim left.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Obee
Typo

[ewaldbeukes]

Hi all, 

 

Was wondering if anyone had a method for estimating the change in roll based of %of slope that one is putting down or into. 

 

Ie a 10ft putt that is playing 1% downhill will roll an extra 5% or a 10ft putt that is playing 1% uphill will roll 10% shorter. I see Bryson seems to apply this method (you could hear them working it out during his 58 at Greenbriar)... Not wanting to be Bryson, but with speed being so critical to success on the greens I was wondering if anyone had an ideas or links to good reading material on the topic. If I have missed this elsewhere please point me in the direction! thanks.

[mhudson111]

12 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Hi all, 

 

Was wondering if anyone had a method for estimating the change in roll based of %of slope that one is putting down or into. 

 

Ie a 10ft putt that is playing 1% downhill will roll an extra 5% or a 10ft putt that is playing 1% uphill will roll 10% shorter. I see Bryson seems to apply this method (you could hear them working it out during his 58 at Greenbriar)... Not wanting to be Bryson, but with speed being so critical to success on the greens I was wondering if anyone had an ideas or links to good reading material on the topic. If I have missed this elsewhere please point me in the direction! thanks.

https://www.golfwrx.com/522438/how-drastically-does-slope-effect-green-speed-more-than-you-even-think/

[ewaldbeukes]

On 8/21/2023 at 11:25 PM, mhudson111 said:

https://www.golfwrx.com/522438/how-drastically-does-slope-effect-green-speed-more-than-you-even-think/

Thanks, this was what I was looking for... thought I had seen it somewhere!