2019 And The Pin Is In

[CheckJV]

It was a beautiful 68 degrees today in early January in South Carolina and I played my first round of golf in 2019. Our group of 4 collectively decided to leave the pin in and see how it went.

 

Other than feeling kind of strange on short puts and having the urge to go pull the flag from time to time it was uneventful.

 

After one round, I’m liking it. I’m wondering what everyone else’s experiences will be with the pin in option. Please share!

[DaveLeeNC]

I have had two rounds scheduled for play this year. My observation based on this is that it makes zero difference (pin in vs out) when it is raining and 45 degrees and you are not playing :taunt:

 

dave

 

ps. Should have played today, but went for a long bike ride instead (also something that is no fun in a 45 degree rain).

[tdk8180]

Ive been putting with the pin in for years to save time so nothing is really changing for me. I cant wait for the folks that will have a mental block when putting with the pin in...they will have to pull the flag all the time. No more courtesy pulls, im not going near the flagstick.

[DavePelz4]

Yesterday 2 of the guys in the group putted with the pin in on every shot and 2 removed it. Very awkward going back and forth the entire round. We also were a half to 3/4 hole behind the entire day.

[Swisstrader98]

Yesterday 2 of the guys in the group putted with the pin in on every shot and 2 removed it. Very awkward going back and forth the entire round. We also were a half to 3/4 hole behind the entire day.

 

Same for me. We played a round at end of season with new rules and the “flag in/flag out” thing. Each guy with different views on in/out on EVERY putt.

 

Think about it: 4 guys averaging 2 putts on each green, so that’s 8 separate times a decision is made by a golfer to leave flag in or take it out on EACH HOLE. That’s 144 times in a given round!

[Rohlio]

Yesterday 2 of the guys in the group putted with the pin in on every shot and 2 removed it. Very awkward going back and forth the entire round. We also were a half to 3/4 hole behind the entire day.

 

Exactly why this change is stupid. Will just slow it down even more, particularly in tournament play.

[nsxguy]

Yesterday 2 of the guys in the group putted with the pin in on every shot and 2 removed it. Very awkward going back and forth the entire round. We also were a half to 3/4 hole behind the entire day.

 

Same for me. We played a round at end of season with new rules and the "flag in/flag out" thing. Each guy with different views on in/out on EVERY putt.

 

Think about it: 4 guys averaging 2 putts on each green, so that's 8 separate times a decision is made by a golfer to leave flag in or take it out on EACH HOLE. That's 144 times in a given round!

 

Seriously ? You guys alternated the pin in and out on every putt ? :blind: :lol:

 

I've played twice so far. Once on Friday. 3 guys left it in for the longer putts and took it out mostly inside 10 feet except for tap ins.

 

Yesterday was a scramble so I'm not sure it "counts" but a couple of "strange" things. One of our guys, on about a 35 footer wanted the pin tended. He gave it a whack, flag was pulled and he hit the back of the cup and it popped OUT. Would it have stayed in ? Who knows ?

 

Another guy on the team, on about a 8 footer, took the pin out and did (almost) the same thing. He didn't hit the back of the hole quite dead center but very close to it and it spun out. Might've stayed in ? Sure might've.

 

And I think for a regular 4-some, once everybody gets used to the "logistics", nobody'll think twice about it.

[Z1ggy16]

If everybody agrees to leave the pin in, I think it will save a few minutes, but otherwise eventful. It will slow things down when one or two want it in and the others want it out.

[bspn]

The alternating in-out routine would drive me crazy. I've always left the pin in when playing as a single so it won't bother me putting with it in the whole round, but I guess the first time I tee it up in a group next week we'll need to set some ground rules up front. I'd be ok with leaving it until everyone is within, say, 10 feet and if you knock it close and want to clean up then you do so with the pin in. Golf is slow enough as it is without adding unnecessary steps.

[Hawkeye77]

The alternating in-out routine would drive me crazy. I've always left the pin in when playing as a single so it won't bother me putting with it in the whole round, but I guess the first time I tee it up in a group next week we'll need to set some ground rules up front. I'd be ok with leaving it until everyone is within, say, 10 feet and if you knock it close and want to clean up then you do so with the pin in. Golf is slow enough as it is without adding unnecessary steps.

 

"Ground rules" aren't THE rules - not a negotiation and up to each player to decide on every shot what to do with the pin.

 

 

[antip]

I was really keen to try this in competition - I'd seen the stats and reports (Dave Pelz, some 12000 iterations; and some recent stuff with 1000 plus iterations saying almost always better to have it in).

 

But my early observations are: yes it is better if you are barrelling the ball 3 feet or worse past the hole but makes little to no difference otherwise. So if you like to just get the ball to the hole, the choice is pretty much irrelevant. Some further observations - holes on slopes were rarely put in quite upright, so if you were on the lower side of where the hole itself was tilted then leaving it in is a clear disadvantage because the flagstick is leaning towards you. I also left it in for a few short 6-8 footers, playing in the middle of the day, and found the shadow of the flag itself moving in the gentle breeze produced a hyped up shadow dancing around the hole on the ground - that was an absolute distraction.

 

Overall, yawn, hard to get excited one way or the other. Probably leave it for longer putts and certainly whenever I'm up on the green first, and also slippery downhillers that are hard to hold close to the hole. The rest of the time, I'm thinking I'm a "who cares" sort of golfer.

[Newby]

Yesterday 2 of the guys in the group putted with the pin in on every shot and 2 removed it. Very awkward going back and forth the entire round. We also were a half to 3/4 hole behind the entire day.

 

Same for me. We played a round at end of season with new rules and the "flag in/flag out" thing. Each guy with different views on in/out on EVERY putt.

 

Think about it: 4 guys averaging 2 putts on each green, so that's 8 separate times a decision is made by a golfer to leave flag in or take it out on EACH HOLE. That's 144 times in a given round!

 

Why not play ready golf? All in followed by all out (unless inappropriate for a couple of putts)

[Vindog]

Ive been putting with the pin in for years to save time so nothing is really changing for me. I cant wait for the folks that will have a mental block when putting with the pin in...they will have to pull the flag all the time. No more courtesy pulls, im not going near the flagstick.

 

Watch out for this guy, he’s a baddazzz

 

[Oh Hi Carl]

I will do it only on long putts and those are the ones when everyone is typically just getting on the green and often nobody has bothered yet to pull the flag. Seems like pulling the flag or tending it is the last thing people think of when they get to the green, so it makes sense as a time saver to just putt the first long lag putts with it in. I agree it will slow things down if some guy is demanding that someone walk over to the flag that has been pulled and put it back in the hole so that he can attempt his 10 footer. That would get old fast.

[Swisstrader98]

Yesterday 2 of the guys in the group putted with the pin in on every shot and 2 removed it. Very awkward going back and forth the entire round. We also were a half to 3/4 hole behind the entire day.

 

Same for me. We played a round at end of season with new rules and the "flag in/flag out" thing. Each guy with different views on in/out on EVERY putt.

 

Think about it: 4 guys averaging 2 putts on each green, so that's 8 separate times a decision is made by a golfer to leave flag in or take it out on EACH HOLE. That's 144 times in a given round!

 

Seriously ? You guys alternated the pin in and out on every putt ? :blind: :lol:

 

I've played twice so far. Once on Friday. 3 guys left it in for the longer putts and took it out mostly inside 10 feet except for tap ins.

 

Yesterday was a scramble so I'm not sure it "counts" but a couple of "strange" things. One of our guys, on about a 35 footer wanted the pin tended. He gave it a whack, flag was pulled and he hit the back of the cup and it popped OUT. Would it have stayed in ? Who knows ?

 

Another guy on the team, on about a 8 footer, took the pin out and did (almost) the same thing. He didn't hit the back of the hole quite dead center but very close to it and it spun out. Might've stayed in ? Sure might've.

 

And I think for a regular 4-some, once everybody gets used to the "logistics", nobody'll think twice about it.

 

Not pin in, then pin out on every shot, but yes, a decision (and a new decision) to be made on each and every putt so in my mind we could have this constant pulling, put back in hole of the flag and that’s on every hole. May not be every putt, but just like some guys think of every angle on wind, elevation, slope etc, there will be guys who get strategic about pin in/pin out and will def slow not speed play. At least that was my experience based on one single round.

[davep043]

Yesterday 2 of the guys in the group putted with the pin in on every shot and 2 removed it. Very awkward going back and forth the entire round. We also were a half to 3/4 hole behind the entire day.

 

Same for me. We played a round at end of season with new rules and the "flag in/flag out" thing. Each guy with different views on in/out on EVERY putt.

 

Think about it: 4 guys averaging 2 putts on each green, so that's 8 separate times a decision is made by a golfer to leave flag in or take it out on EACH HOLE. That's 144 times in a given round!

 

Seriously ? You guys alternated the pin in and out on every putt ? :blind: :lol:

 

I've played twice so far. Once on Friday. 3 guys left it in for the longer putts and took it out mostly inside 10 feet except for tap ins.

 

Yesterday was a scramble so I'm not sure it "counts" but a couple of "strange" things. One of our guys, on about a 35 footer wanted the pin tended. He gave it a whack, flag was pulled and he hit the back of the cup and it popped OUT. Would it have stayed in ? Who knows ?

 

Another guy on the team, on about a 8 footer, took the pin out and did (almost) the same thing. He didn't hit the back of the hole quite dead center but very close to it and it spun out. Might've stayed in ? Sure might've.

 

And I think for a regular 4-some, once everybody gets used to the "logistics", nobody'll think twice about it.

I agree with the last bit. Every time something changes, it seems awkward as we adjust to it. But it won't take long before we've done it a few times, and it will seem natural.

[DavePelz4]

Yesterday 2 of the guys in the group putted with the pin in on every shot and 2 removed it. Very awkward going back and forth the entire round. We also were a half to 3/4 hole behind the entire day.

 

Same for me. We played a round at end of season with new rules and the "flag in/flag out" thing. Each guy with different views on in/out on EVERY putt.

 

Think about it: 4 guys averaging 2 putts on each green, so that's 8 separate times a decision is made by a golfer to leave flag in or take it out on EACH HOLE. That's 144 times in a given round!

 

Seriously ? You guys alternated the pin in and out on every putt ? :blind: :lol:

 

I've played twice so far. Once on Friday. 3 guys left it in for the longer putts and took it out mostly inside 10 feet except for tap ins.

 

Yesterday was a scramble so I'm not sure it "counts" but a couple of "strange" things. One of our guys, on about a 35 footer wanted the pin tended. He gave it a whack, flag was pulled and he hit the back of the cup and it popped OUT. Would it have stayed in ? Who knows ?

 

Another guy on the team, on about a 8 footer, took the pin out and did (almost) the same thing. He didn't hit the back of the hole quite dead center but very close to it and it spun out. Might've stayed in ? Sure might've.

 

And I think for a regular 4-some, once everybody gets used to the "logistics", nobody'll think twice about it.

 

Yes, there were literally holes where depending on who was away, the pin was pulled, went back in, was pulled again and back in. One thing in retrospect that might have made it better is either with the pin in out out, if players (myself included) would have just continued until finishing the hole while watching other's lines. Understand this is bonus golf season here and there is minimal maintenance on the greens. Some greens are very slow others not so, so it wasn't uncommon to come up 5 feet short on a putt and then be 5 feet long on the next hole.

 

Also agree with the regular foursome thing. But if people are changing depending on the individual putt, I can see where even knowing someone's preference, they still might want it in or out for a particular putt.

[nsxguy]

 

Not pin in, then pin out on every shot, but yes, a decision (and a new decision) to be made on each and every putt so in my mind we could have this constant pulling, put back in hole of the flag and that's on every hole. May not be every putt, but just like some guys think of every angle on wind, elevation, slope etc, there will be guys who get strategic about pin in/pin out and will def slow not speed play. At least that was my experience based on one single round.

 

You had to make extra "decisions" ?

 

Someone's not making their "decision" while someone else is putting ?

 

 

 

Yes, there were literally holes where depending on who was away, the pin was pulled, went back in, was pulled again and back in. One thing in retrospect that might have made it better is either with the pin in out out, if players (myself included) would have just continued until finishing the hole while watching other's lines. Understand this is bonus golf season here and there is minimal maintenance on the greens. Some greens are very slow others not so, so it wasn't uncommon to come up 5 feet short on a utt and then be 5 feet long on the next hole.

 

Also agree with the regular foursome thing. But if people are changing depending on the individual putt, I can see where even knowing someone's preference, they still might want it in or out for a particular putt.

 

Both you and Swiss make legitimate points but again, once people get used to the drill I think we'll find it'll save some time.

 

I submit that we haven't gotten the drill down yet; that of the guy nearest the pin to begin with becomes the caddie", stepping aside holding the pin while one guy putts and being ready to put it in when the next guys putts - unless of course they all decide the same way.

 

We, or at least I, did it under the OLD rule. I call it "tending the flag" when others have a long putt where they need help seeing the hole. Nowadays I play with a lot of higher handicappers and they are often a long way from the hole when they go first and nobody's even gotten to the flag yet. This is where I believe the largest amount of time will be saved. Now they can just putt, no need to wait for the flag to be tended.

 

Even amongst better players the guy furthest away is often ready to play but no one's there to tend the flag yet.

 

I'm confident we'll get used to it.

[sui generis]

In my group yesterday, one guy wanted it out all the time, the other three didn't care. So when "one guy" wanted it out the "other three" stood by and allowed "one guy" to manage his own flagstick. By about hole 7, the "problem" cured itself. ;)

[joekelli]

We have a guy in our league who will putt from 30 yards off the green and will always request the flag be pulled! Why he does this we have no idea other than to be a pain in the Word not allowed. He can pull his own flag now if we are all leaving it in!

[Vindog]

We have a guy in our league who will putt from 30 yards off the green and will always request the flag be pulled! Why he does this we have no idea other than to be a pain in the Word not allowed. He can pull his own flag now if we are all leaving it in!

 

Don't complain about the dragging rounds, then. Helping an FC with the pin is not only considerate but also helps things move along. Sure there's nothing saying you have to do it, but we don't have to jerks either, just because the rule has changed.

[sooner66]

My normal group has decided to leave it in per Pelz's study. We had 1 putt yesterday that may have been affected by the flag and it was a make on a putt going pretty fast. So our data set is 1 putt that the flag helped. We had no misses due to the flag stick. I am going to try to track this out over the season.

[tascot]

In my group yesterday, one guy wanted it out all the time, the other three didn't care. So when "one guy" wanted it out the "other three" stood by and allowed "one guy" to manage his own flagstick. By about hole 7, the "problem" cured itself. ;)

[tascot]

I would have put the flag at the edge of the green, and left it there. Each time.

[HitEmTrue]

My normal group has decided to leave it in per Pelz's study. We had 1 putt yesterday that may have been affected by the flag and it was a make on a putt going pretty fast. So our data set is 1 putt that the flag helped. We had no misses due to the flag stick. I am going to try to track this out over the season.

 

Unless the flag is leaning to one side, the only thing you can conclude on a putt that hits the pin and misses is that...the putt was missed. Also, the pin may have kept the miss closer to the hole.

 

[davep043]

In my group yesterday, one guy wanted it out all the time, the other three didn't care. So when "one guy" wanted it out the "other three" stood by and allowed "one guy" to manage his own flagstick. By about hole 7, the "problem" cured itself. ;)

We have a guy in our league who will putt from 30 yards off the green and will always request the flag be pulled! Why he does this we have no idea other than to be a pain in the Word not allowed. He can pull his own flag now if we are all leaving it in!

How very considerate of you gentlemen. A player exercises his choice, perfectly acceptable under the rules, and you all refuse to help him out unless he follows YOUR choice? And presumably this happens to someone you might consider a friend? Well done.

[sooner66]

My normal group has decided to leave it in per Pelz's study. We had 1 putt yesterday that may have been affected by the flag and it was a make on a putt going pretty fast. So our data set is 1 putt that the flag helped. We had no misses due to the flag stick. I am going to try to track this out over the season.

 

Unless the flag is leaning to one side, the only thing you can conclude on a putt that hits the pin and misses is that...the putt was missed. Also, the pin may have kept the miss closer to the hole.

 

I suppose I should have said we had no missed that touched the flag stick ( or hole for that matter).

[Hawkeye77]

In my group yesterday, one guy wanted it out all the time, the other three didn't care. So when "one guy" wanted it out the "other three" stood by and allowed "one guy" to manage his own flagstick. By about hole 7, the "problem" cured itself. ;)

 

I've seen the same kind of suggestion in other threads from the just leave it in camp, as if that's the answer for everyone.

 

Whether it saves time or not, somebody needs it out to putt or back in to putt and it's more convenient to help him or her out a bit, I'm certainly going to help them.

[Hawkeye77]

Suddenly anyone who may want the pin out is "that guy" - lol, whatever my thoughts are on the rule, that is just wrong headed.

[HitEmTrue]

My normal group has decided to leave it in per Pelz's study. We had 1 putt yesterday that may have been affected by the flag and it was a make on a putt going pretty fast. So our data set is 1 putt that the flag helped. We had no misses due to the flag stick. I am going to try to track this out over the season.

 

Unless the flag is leaning to one side, the only thing you can conclude on a putt that hits the pin and misses is that...the putt was missed. Also, the pin may have kept the miss closer to the hole.

 

I suppose I should have said we had no missed that touched the flag stick ( or hole for that matter).

 

I was commenting on your desire to track it out over the season. Not sure what you can learn from that, without rolling putts at the hole repeatedly, with controlled direction and speed.