Interesting development - $3000 pay to caddy from a $1.3 million winners check? (MOD EDIT - NO POLIT

[braincramp52]

I guess I live in a completely different world. Not once in my 66 years on this planet have I ever thought someone in the public view owed me a explanation about something he may or may not have done. Why? Because of sponsors!? Bu!!sh!t. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Now, if my son or daughter, or wife does something that isn't right they need to explain. But just because the person is on my TV means nothing.

 

You’ve never been critical of someone in public view? Not once? Calling bullxxxx on that one.

 

Kuch makes a living as a public figure in golf. He is paid by companies that sell gear we buy and review. That opens him up to public criticism. It’s pretty simple.

 

You're right. It opens him up to criticism from COMPANIES that are paying him. Not people on social media. He owes us nothing.

[Hawkeye77]

Bunch of socialist on this thread.

 

Hey, we Kant talk about that kind of stuff!

[MtlJeff]

"mind your own business" crowd....."social justice" crowd.....LOL.....This thread is long enough that we can start our own Facebook pages.

 

The "mind your own business" crowd understands your points just fine, at least i do. I just don't really care about them when i form mine. I'm not going to pan a guy because his transaction didn't fall into an expected societal norm. You're allowed to call him cheap, and as a public figure he needs to accept a public reaction to anything he does. I don't dispute that....

 

But if he wants to pay local caddies every week 3000$ that's his right as an independent contractor. For all we know caddy pay is a market inefficiency that Kuchar discovered by winning with someone who's willing to accept 3K. Just like paying Taxi drivers 2X what an Uber was 10 years ago.

 

Maybe Kuchar's discovery will help young struggling pros last on the tours longer because they'll cut their caddy costs down , potentially by having locals carry a bag for a smaller fee

 

That's all quite possible.

 

Remind me, did the newly-enlightened Kuch use this theory ever again? Did he use it when he won last week?

 

Maybe he paid his regular guy $5k for the win, under this new deal! We'll never know, and it's a private matter anyway.....

 

Or he was brow beaten by mobs into paying full rate again. He can afford it anyway, and the world often resists change at first

 

We might only appreciate his heroics at later date.

[wobgon]

I will unambiguously say that I would have more respect for Kuch if he revealed the terms of the agreement between himself and the caddie.

 

Honestly, I can see the argument for both sides, but I do not fit into the "Kuch doesn't owe anyone an answer" camp.

 

Despite the lack of relevant information, it is clear to me that between Gillis's source and the guy in the plaid shorts that Ortiz feels he has been wronged. Both his account of what transpired and Kuch's would help clear the air.

 

I understand the sentiment that it was a business deal between two men, but ultimately there was a miscommunication or someone is being dishonest and that's when the details must be addressed.

 

I think had Kuch been more clear, i.e. the agreement was for $3,000 for the week in base with no bonus and I chose to give him a $2,000 bonus because that was what was left in my wallet before I jumped on the plane, then at least his side of the story would be on record.

 

Played golf with a friend yesterday that has been a resort caddie at some prestigious places with some tour caddies and he said unequivocally a resort caddie that picked up a bag in an event would expect the 10% bonus.

 

I think that's where some of you guys are missing the mark. If the "culture" of the PGA TOUR is that the bonus is paid then Kuch would have needed to have expressly told Ortiz, you will not receive any bonus regardless of my finish.

 

My friend also said he thought it would be very likely that the caddies would be unified in no one picking up the bag if that was stated. So, had Kuch told Ortiz, you will not receive the bonus he might have had his wife on the bag for all 4 rounds. Maybe one of the multitude of WRX'ers who gladly said they would have carried the bag would have done so for $3,000 and maybe Kuch would have still won? Having met up with some WRX'ers I don't know how many of you would have made it around Mayakoba with a tour bag 5 times in 5 days.

 

^^^^ This. Kuch isn't going to go into specifics, because the specifics make him look bad. He tried wiggling out of it with the "more than $3k, less than 10% line" which is designed to imply that the actual number was somewhere near the middle of that range, rather than much much closer to $3001 than 10% of 1.3m.

 

What the "mind your own business" crowd doesn't get is that Kuch did something so far out of the ordinary culture of caddie-player compensation, so egregiously against the cultural norms of how things work on tour, that some rando felt obligated to call him out on it. No, it's all shoot the messenger instead. This is not someone tipping 10% at a restaurant when the cultural norm is 20%. This is someone leaving $100 when the bill came to $99.70. This isn't a waitress thinking "that guy was cheap," this is "I'm gonna spit in that guy's food if I ever see him again." If Kuch came anywhere remotely near doing what is usually done under the circumstances there's zero chance some rando calls him out for being cheap. He wasn't a little cheap, he was egregiously cheap, hence this whole kerfuffle.

 

Secondly, the "mind your own business" crowd seems unwilling to accept that he's a public figure. Certainly not on the order of someone like Tiger, but he's getting paid to wear someone's logo and put his face on ads in Golf Digest. I go and bang a bunch of porn stars that's between me and my family, because I'm not a public figure (sorry Honey!). Tiger goes and bangs a bunch of porn stars and, being a public figure, his sponsors turn off the spigot. There's only so much privacy you get once you're a public figure. If Kuch doesn't want some rando calling him out for being cheap then he shouldn't be cheap. As a public figure, he should expect that, regardless of the high standards of privacy expected by those here on golfwrx.

Again I ask the question....What did this cheapskate who is so egregiously far outside the culture of norms pay his caddy, and how do you know it to be the case?

[ebrasmus21]

Bunch of socialist on this thread.

 

Hey, we Kant talk about that kind of stuff!

 

“Means of production.”

[ebrasmus21]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

[wobgon]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

Don't forget about plaid shorts guy.

[ebrasmus21]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

Don't forget about plaid shorts guy.

 

The “insider” yes. Who could forget that gem.

[Matt J]

I am tempted to call Mayakoba myself and set up a Skype interview with El Tucan.

[playar32]

Little late here, but my thoughts.

 

On one hand, I could see the argument that the caddie is owed 10%, because of the stage its on. For example, it's kinda like how prices are inflated in NYC vs middle America.

 

On the other hand, it could come down to what they decided before hand and how much work the caddie actually did. Additionally, it could come down to how much Kuch felt he actually contributed to the win. Kinda makes all caddies look overpaid if a pro can get anyone and still win.

[bscinstnct]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

 

Someone thinks they do...

 

 

"Been in direct contact with El Tucan now for a few days," Gillis wrote. "He did receive a total of 5k. Not 3k after tournament. Still only 0.0023% percent of check. Fortunately there's no more middle man. Stay tuned hopefully he gets paid properly"

 

https://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/news-and-events/tour-news/2019/january/matt-kuchar-caddie-story-/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

If you guys don't think sponsors care how their athletes are perceived I just don't know what to tell you.

 

What's the point of sponsoring someone? They help you sell product.

 

Bridgestone, Ecco, RBC Bank, Workday, Grey Goose, and Net Jets - if and when you purchase their products a small % of the purchase price goes to Kuch. Interestingly, it's nearly the same percentage he tips.

 

And if you think the small amount of people here criticizing him are representative of the general population then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

Watch if he plays in Phoenix, he may get some creative catcalls from a small number of people on 16 who MIGHT even be aware of this situation, but you’re going to hear a whole lot more KUUUUUUCH from the people there. Remeber, the sponsors pay attention to the general public’s opinion, not the 10 people on Golf WRX who think he committed such a horrid offense.

[deadsolid...shank]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

 

Someone thinks they do...

 

 

"Been in direct contact with El Tucan now for a few days," Gillis wrote. "He did receive a total of 5k. Not 3k after tournament. Still only 0.0023% percent of check. Fortunately there's no more middle man. Stay tuned hopefully he gets paid properly"

 

https://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/news-and-events/tour-news/2019/january/matt-kuchar-caddie-story-/

 

So he is basically admitting he had it wrong when he spouted off the first time? Wonder what his story will be next week?

[bscinstnct]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

 

Someone thinks they do...

 

 

"Been in direct contact with El Tucan now for a few days," Gillis wrote. "He did receive a total of 5k. Not 3k after tournament. Still only 0.0023% percent of check. Fortunately there's no more middle man. Stay tuned hopefully he gets paid properly"

 

https://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/news-and-events/tour-news/2019/january/matt-kuchar-caddie-story-/

 

So he is basically admitting he had it wrong when he spouted off the first time? Wonder what his story will be next week?

 

Even if it is true he gave him 5k.

 

You have no problem with it, right?

[deadsolid...shank]

Where did I say I think Kuchar owes anyone an explanation? I didn't, because I don't think he does. BUT I do think that if there was something simple he could say by way of explanation that would make him look good he would've already said it. That's simple human nature. Instead we got the "non-story" comment, and the mealy mouthed "more than $3k less than 10%."

 

I also never said that he owes us an explanation because of his sponsors. That's just silly. Maybe the point I was trying to make was too fine of a one for some of you deep thinkers, but the point is being a public person has its pluses and minuses. If you're going to accept the positive side--money for wearing a logo--you better be prepared to accept the negative side, e.g., getting called out on twitter for being a cheapskate after you egregiously stiff a caddie. Maybe some of you law and order types would understand it better this way: "don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

 

You said he’s not going into specifics, sounds like wanting an explanation to me. Potato—Potato

[ebrasmus21]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

 

Someone thinks they do...

 

 

"Been in direct contact with El Tucan now for a few days," Gillis wrote. "He did receive a total of 5k. Not 3k after tournament. Still only 0.0023% percent of check. Fortunately there's no more middle man. Stay tuned hopefully he gets paid properly"

 

https://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/news-and-events/tour-news/2019/january/matt-kuchar-caddie-story-/

 

So he is basically admitting he had it wrong when he spouted off the first time? Wonder what his story will be next week?

 

He’s a regular Tom Hagen this Gillis. Counseling his man through a sticky situation.

[cdnglf]

"mind your own business" crowd....."social justice" crowd.....LOL.....This thread is long enough that we can start our own Facebook pages.

 

The "mind your own business" crowd understands your points just fine, at least i do. I just don't really care about them when i form mine. I'm not going to pan a guy because his transaction didn't fall into an expected societal norm. You're allowed to call him cheap, and as a public figure he needs to accept a public reaction to anything he does. I don't dispute that....

 

But if he wants to pay local caddies every week 3000$ that's his right as an independent contractor. For all we know caddy pay is a market inefficiency that Kuchar discovered by winning with someone who's willing to accept 3K. Just like paying Taxi drivers 2X what an Uber was 10 years ago.

 

Maybe Kuchar's discovery will help young struggling pros last on the tours longer because they'll cut their caddy costs down , potentially by having locals carry a bag for a smaller fee

 

That's all quite possible.

 

Remind me, did the newly-enlightened Kuch use this theory ever again? Did he use it when he won last week?

 

Maybe he paid his regular guy $5k for the win, under this new deal! We'll never know, and it's a private matter anyway.....

 

Or he was brow beaten by mobs into paying full rate again. He can afford it anyway, and the world often resists change at first

 

We might only appreciate his heroics at later date.

 

Good thing the re-gifter didn’t let ZJ in on his sabremetric breakthrough.

 

Allegedly.

[CasualLie]

The problem I have with the steakhouse analogy is that $1M deals are not won in a single dinner. The idea that someone would go through the trouble of a private dining room and prepping staff to increase chances to win a deal is so unrealistic..at best amateurish. I've worked on several large deals in several Countries and relationships are not built nor cemented in a single steakhouse dinner. Normally the fancy dinner is to celebrate the done deal. And normally you would pick a restaurant where you do not need to prep anyone; superior service is expected. The restaurant staff has zero impact.

 

The caddy in this case did have some impact on the win. I cannot assign a value to it other than his normal rate. The "tip" is discretionary. The 10% factor is irrelevant. Only regular caddies get this as part of a pretty long standing template - you slog it out and get paid dirt in your typical week but your reward is a much bigger payday if your player goes top 10, 5 or wins. The sub caddy didn't pay any dues.

 

We can debate 40 more pages what was Tucan's actual contribution, but he must be a better than typical resort caddy if (1) he's the lead caddy at the resort and (2) he got a nobody through 18 that week to Monday qualify. I'm thinking Matt does not win that week without him. What is that worth? To Gillis $50k seems to be the number, apparently to Sergio in a similar situation it was more, and to Kuchar it's more than $3k but we do not know how much more.

 

It's at Kuchar's discretion, and that's fine. He just didn't do himself any favors with the cagey answer when asked. He could laughed when asked and said something like, "oh El Tucan was well taken care of, but that's between us, let's call it five figures and leave it at that". But instead we got told this is not a story. I'm sure in the heat of the moment he didn't think through a better reply; he's caught off guard and not happy. While he is golfing, some nobody named Gillis is on Twitter rehashing dirt from months ago that actually has nothing to do with him. It's about as much of a hit and run Tweet as you can get. Still, the only reason I would have liked to see a better reply is because he's being accused of being cheap and he had to get a little offended and make a stronger statement. So many better ways to have responded.

 

It is all Kuchar's choice, so ultimately I will give Kuchar credit though for not having a Twitter account and not engaging in a war of words. For all we know, as defending champ he may have already booked Mayakoba and will take a few minutes to go say hi to Tucan.

 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

 

Someone thinks they do...

 

 

"Been in direct contact with El Tucan now for a few days," Gillis wrote. "He did receive a total of 5k. Not 3k after tournament. Still only 0.0023% percent of check. Fortunately there's no more middle man. Stay tuned hopefully he gets paid properly"

 

https://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/news-and-events/tour-news/2019/january/matt-kuchar-caddie-story-/

 

So he is basically admitting he had it wrong when he spouted off the first time? Wonder what his story will be next week?

 

Even if it is true he gave him 5k.

 

You have no problem with it, right?

 

I’ve never offered an opinion as to what I think he should he should have been paid. I did say that he is not a regular tour caddie doing all the things a regular one does, for whatever difference that makes. What I’ve continually said are two things: we don’t know what he was actually paid (and it sounds like Gillis doesn’t either) and 2: we don’t know if there was an agreement in place prior to the tournament.

 

My entire contention in this thread has always been that people are completely condemning Kucher based on nothing but pure speculation. FWIW I’m indifferent to Kucher at best. By no means a fan.

[flip flappy]

I just happened to think of this Kuchar pay debacle thing in relation to a contractor I used to work for. And no, I don't have any inside info on the exact payment that was made to El Tucan but just saying it is the $5000 amount. The contractor I built decks and screen porches for built around 300-400 houses a year. He was very successful and made a lot of money, owned a lot of property/farms, 50 rental houses in addition to a very nice beach house. He would drive a few different trucks but also kept a new Corvette. In other words, it was obvious that he was wealthy and I'm not even listing all the evidence. The part that got to everyone was that he paid us sub-contractors less than other local builders and there was no negotiating. If I built a deck that was 2 feet tall or 16 feet tall, he paid the same amount. Take the good with the bad was his saying although he never took the bad but always took the good. He had the volume of work to keep us busy and that did help but still people resented him for his cheapness. He paid us every week for work and we never had to worry about a bad check, but still he was resented for being cheap when he could have paid us all the going price and still been successful. If Kuch would have had his regular caddie on the bag he would paid out over $100K so why not pay El Tucan $50K? I pay my workers to my hurt sometimes just because I am doing ok and know they could use the money. I'm saying all this in the case that Kuch paid him $5000 total. Who knows the real truth though? I would like to think Kuch paid him the 5K and then deposited the rest in El Tucan's bank account when he got home and both are keeping it quiet. I don't personally like a cheapskate.

[deadsolid...shank]

I just happened to think of this Kuchar pay debacle thing in relation to a contractor I used to work for. And no, I don't have any inside info on the exact payment that was made to El Tucan but just saying it is the $5000 amount. The contractor I built decks and screen porches for built around 300-400 houses a year. He was very successful and made a lot of money, owned a lot of property/farms, 50 rental houses in addition to a very nice beach house. He would drive a few different trucks but also kept a new Corvette. In other words, it was obvious that he was wealthy and I'm not even listing all the evidence. The part that got to everyone was that he paid us sub-contractors less than other local builders and there was no negotiating. If I built a deck that was 2 feet tall or 16 feet tall, he paid the same amount. Take the good with the bad was his saying although he never took the bad but always took the good. He had the volume of work to keep us busy and that did help but still people resented him for his cheapness. He paid us every week for work and we never had to worry about a bad check, but still he was resented for being cheap when he could have paid us all the going price and still been successful. If Kuch would have had his regular caddie on the bag he would paid out over $100K so why not pay El Tucan $50K? I pay my workers to my hurt sometimes just because I am doing ok and know they could use the money. I'm saying all this in the case that Kuch paid him $5000 total. Who knows the real truth though? I would like to think Kuch paid him the 5K and then deposited the rest in El Tucan's bank account when he got home and both are keeping it quiet. I don't personally like a cheapskate.

 

That’s fair. And mostly because while outlining a reasonable answer you still acknowledge that we really don’t know. Maybe the most even keeled post in the thread.....from either side.

[bscinstnct]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

 

Someone thinks they do...

 

 

"Been in direct contact with El Tucan now for a few days," Gillis wrote. "He did receive a total of 5k. Not 3k after tournament. Still only 0.0023% percent of check. Fortunately there's no more middle man. Stay tuned hopefully he gets paid properly"

 

https://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/news-and-events/tour-news/2019/january/matt-kuchar-caddie-story-/

 

So he is basically admitting he had it wrong when he spouted off the first time? Wonder what his story will be next week?

 

Even if it is true he gave him 5k.

 

You have no problem with it, right?

 

I’ve never offered an opinion as to what I think he should he should have been paid. I did say that he is not a regular tour caddie doing all the things a regular one does, for whatever difference that makes. What I’ve continually said are two things: we don’t know what he was actually paid (and it sounds like Gillis doesn’t either) and 2: we don’t know if there was an agreement in place prior to the tournament.

 

My entire contention in this thread has always been that people are completely condemning Kucher based on nothing but pure speculation. FWIW I’m indifferent to Kucher at best. By no means a fan.

 

I bet we are on the same page. Without knowing for sure what he gave him,

 

Im thinking 30k would have been right. But you tell me.

 

We do know the caddie, when interviewed after the win, said he had not discussed and did not know what he was getting. Not to say Kuch alluded to him getting anything extra if he won.

 

So, even if Kuch promised nothing, considering everything (traditional comp for a win, what this guy knew about the course/his experience, kuch first win in 4 years) 30k seems right.

 

5k is a joke and Kuch is a dope if he gave him that. My opinion. Others disagree, no big deal.

 

This said, I would still root for Kuch if he wins cause thats why I like sports. On the field, I respect the guy who closes.

 

I mean, look at TW. Seems like a complete db but he goes after it like nobody else.

 

Now, to more important issues...

 

Wings and beers! Cheers, dss.

[DBill]

I just happened to think of this Kuchar pay debacle thing in relation to a contractor I used to work for. And no, I don't have any inside info on the exact payment that was made to El Tucan but just saying it is the $5000 amount. The contractor I built decks and screen porches for built around 300-400 houses a year. He was very successful and made a lot of money, owned a lot of property/farms, 50 rental houses in addition to a very nice beach house. He would drive a few different trucks but also kept a new Corvette. In other words, it was obvious that he was wealthy and I'm not even listing all the evidence. The part that got to everyone was that he paid us sub-contractors less than other local builders and there was no negotiating. If I built a deck that was 2 feet tall or 16 feet tall, he paid the same amount. Take the good with the bad was his saying although he never took the bad but always took the good. He had the volume of work to keep us busy and that did help but still people resented him for his cheapness. He paid us every week for work and we never had to worry about a bad check, but still he was resented for being cheap when he could have paid us all the going price and still been successful. If Kuch would have had his regular caddie on the bag he would paid out over $100K so why not pay El Tucan $50K? I pay my workers to my hurt sometimes just because I am doing ok and know they could use the money. I'm saying all this in the case that Kuch paid him $5000 total. Who knows the real truth though? I would like to think Kuch paid him the 5K and then deposited the rest in El Tucan's bank account when he got home and both are keeping it quiet. I don't personally like a cheapskate.

 

So don't build decks for that contractor. No one is forcing you to.

[Matt J]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

 

Someone thinks they do...

 

 

"Been in direct contact with El Tucan now for a few days," Gillis wrote. "He did receive a total of 5k. Not 3k after tournament. Still only 0.0023% percent of check. Fortunately there's no more middle man. Stay tuned hopefully he gets paid properly"

 

https://www.todaysgo...-caddie-story-/

 

So he is basically admitting he had it wrong when he spouted off the first time? Wonder what his story will be next week?

 

Even if it is true he gave him 5k.

 

You have no problem with it, right?

 

I’ve never offered an opinion as to what I think he should he should have been paid. I did say that he is not a regular tour caddie doing all the things a regular one does, for whatever difference that makes. What I’ve continually said are two things: we don’t know what he was actually paid (and it sounds like Gillis doesn’t either) and 2: we don’t know if there was an agreement in place prior to the tournament.

 

My entire contention in this thread has always been that people are completely condemning Kucher based on nothing but pure speculation. FWIW I’m indifferent to Kucher at best. By no means a fan.

 

 

 

According to El Tucan in a Golf.com phone interview that was published on the 18th of November there was no agreement in place.

 

https://www.golf.com...-know-el-tucan/

[jmck]

Where did I say I think Kuchar owes anyone an explanation? I didn't, because I don't think he does. BUT I do think that if there was something simple he could say by way of explanation that would make him look good he would've already said it. That's simple human nature. Instead we got the "non-story" comment, and the mealy mouthed "more than $3k less than 10%."

 

I also never said that he owes us an explanation because of his sponsors. That's just silly. Maybe the point I was trying to make was too fine of a one for some of you deep thinkers, but the point is being a public person has its pluses and minuses. If you're going to accept the positive side--money for wearing a logo--you better be prepared to accept the negative side, e.g., getting called out on twitter for being a cheapskate after you egregiously stiff a caddie. Maybe some of you law and order types would understand it better this way: "don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

 

You said he’s not going into specifics, sounds like wanting an explanation to me. Potato—Potato

 

I don’t understand what’s so challenging here. I never said I personally want an explanation or the public in general is owed an explanation. But I DO think that if Kuchar had a plausible explanation where he doesn’t come off looking cheap we would’ve heard it immediately. “Guilty by omission” is the term.

 

This lack of proof thing is just silly. Occam’s Razor says Gillis is telling the truth here, just like he was when he felt Ben Crane needed a public tongue lashing. Now you can certainly disagree that Gillis should be giving anyone public tongue lashings, but I don’t understand why so many people are giving Kuchar the benefit of the doubt here. How many times has ________ gotten torn apart on here without any real evidence of wrongdoing. Fill that blank in however you like, Tiger, Rory, Sabatini, Norman, Bubba, whoever. I can think of some people in this thread who are adamantly pro-Kuchar who have piled on other pros in other threads for much less.

 

Kooch isn’t going to go down to the local courthouse and swear out an affidavit saying “I’m a cheap bastxxx who only paid $5k on a $1.3m win.” But even if he did I suspect a lot of people would still be sticking up for him. I find that strange.

[Matt J]

I got a sneaking suspicion the tighter than a tick, get off my yard, I don't have a 5er on me I'll get you next time crowd may also have some crossover into the It's None of Our Business Camp.

 

Once again, no material evidence. Just a suspicion. Call it a hunch.

[wobgon]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

 

Someone thinks they do...

 

 

"Been in direct contact with El Tucan now for a few days," Gillis wrote. "He did receive a total of 5k. Not 3k after tournament. Still only 0.0023% percent of check. Fortunately there's no more middle man. Stay tuned hopefully he gets paid properly"

 

https://www.todaysgo...-caddie-story-/

I would rather get my info from plaid shorts guy than Gillis.....At least we have a pic of the two of them together.

[Ignatius Reilly]

 

Someone thinks they do...

 

 

"Been in direct contact with El Tucan now for a few days," Gillis wrote. "He did receive a total of 5k. Not 3k after tournament. Still only 0.0023% percent of check. Fortunately there's no more middle man. Stay tuned hopefully he gets paid properly"

 

https://www.todaysgo...-caddie-story-/

 

So he is basically admitting he had it wrong when he spouted off the first time? Wonder what his story will be next week?

 

Even if it is true he gave him 5k.

 

You have no problem with it, right?

 

I’ve never offered an opinion as to what I think he should he should have been paid. I did say that he is not a regular tour caddie doing all the things a regular one does, for whatever difference that makes. What I’ve continually said are two things: we don’t know what he was actually paid (and it sounds like Gillis doesn’t either) and 2: we don’t know if there was an agreement in place prior to the tournament.

 

My entire contention in this thread has always been that people are completely condemning Kucher based on nothing but pure speculation. FWIW I’m indifferent to Kucher at best. By no means a fan.

 

 

 

According to El Tucan in a Golf.com phone interview that was published on the 18th of November there was no agreement in place.

 

https://www.golf.com...-know-el-tucan/

 

How do you know that was El Toucan on the phone?

 

How do we know Gillis actually spoke with El Toucan and isn't making that up?

 

How do we even know Kuch won in Mexico? I wasn't there, I just read about it on the internet, and that thing's notoriously unreliable.

 

No facts, no facts here at all........

[Ignatius Reilly]

Lol - wobgon asking a question which has no answer.

 

Someone thinks they do...

 

 

"Been in direct contact with El Tucan now for a few days," Gillis wrote. "He did receive a total of 5k. Not 3k after tournament. Still only 0.0023% percent of check. Fortunately there's no more middle man. Stay tuned hopefully he gets paid properly"

 

https://www.todaysgo...-caddie-story-/

I would rather get my info from plaid shorts guy than Gillis.....At least we have a pic of the two of them together.

 

Wow - you really hate Gillis.

 

How come? I'd never heard of him before this.

 

I just can't see trusting a random tourist over a Tour Pro. The guy's made over $5 million on Tour. He knows stuff about life there.

 

But you're going with plaid shorts guy? It can't be the shorts, so what is it about him?

[wobgon]

The craziest part of his whole thing is, the caddy is a grown man who has been involved with golf for a long time. If he has a problem with this, he should take action on his own behalf.....What in the world does Tom Gillis have to do with this......I have lots of problems. I handle them the best I can. The last thing I want is some nit wit on twitter getting involved. By the way, I don't know Gillis and certainly do not hate him.