2019 Masters Tournament hosted by ANGC (merged)

[MK7Golf21]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @gatorMD said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @Golfnutgalen said:

> > > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > Another very interesting stat;

> > > > > >

> > > > > > TOP 10s

> > > > > > 22, Jack Nicklaus

> > > > > > 17, Ben Hogan

> > > > > > 15, Gary Player

> > > > > > 15, Sam Snead

> > > > > > 15, Tom Watson

> > > > > > 15, Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > 14, Byron Nelson

> > > > >

> > > > > Let's make this a bit more comparable. Woods has played in 21 Masters and finished in the top 10 13 times or 61.9% of the time. Jack played in 24 by age 42 with 17 top 10s or 70.8%. Both of those figures are dwarfed by Hogan who debuted with a T25 and then reeled off 14 straight top 10s from 1939-1956 (age 26 - 43) missing out on 3 war years. In Hogan's case none of those events had a cut which was introduced the following year in 1957. Byron Nelson's 13/14 from 1935-1951 is insane as well.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm surprised that Arnie isn't in that list. He top 10'd every year except for one 12 times total from 1955-1967 (age 25- 37) missed the cut the following year and never contended again.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The less deep the fields are

> > > > The more 2nds/top 5s the best guys will get. No surprise nearly all the guys with the most 2nds played so many decades ago.

> > >

> > > Hmmmmm, I’m engaging in a little find my filter time so I’m not touching that!

> > >

> > > Get to play Friday - focusing on that, then I’m Augusta 24/7/9!

> > >

> > NEVER FORGET WHEN THE GOAT GOATED ANGC!

> >

> >

>

> TW largest margin of victory (12 strokes!), youngest to win, lowest score to par, -18, (tied with YJS)

 

exciting time to watch golf back then. That was right when my Dad got me into golf, remember watching that tournament.

[BlackM00Nlight]

One can only imagine where Tiger’s stats would be without the lost years from injuries.

 

Shoulda woulda coulda though.

[3jacker]

I can only imagine what Greg Norman's stats would have been had he played better.

[Oliver Klozoff]

The small field is intentional. By only having 75 or so players, of which are 50 top in the WGR and 15 have no chance, you guarantee an exciting finish on Sunday.

The small field guarantees a Sunday back 9 with players everyone knows. Even if a Willett type wins it, he does it over players every non-golfer has heard of.

[BrianMcG]

Nope. Pretty > @Rangeballz said:

> > @gatorMD said:

> > why doesn't agusta host any USGA events? Like a 4ball or mid am?

>

> Despite the fact that the course is closed and the fact that ANGC has zero interest in hosting anything but their events, imagine if you will Mike Davis attempting to "prep" AN for a USGA event. I suspect Fred Ridley would have him removed from the grounds and banned for life.

 

 

Nope. Pretty sure there would be a new “mound” in 15 fairway.

[gatorpedsMD]

Players of the 1st Master women's Am:

 

 

[cardoustie]

A real shame they only get 1 tourney round there. Should've been last weekend .... before the ANA and give the ladies Sat and Sun rounds. My 2c

The AN Women's Am ... on the third day

[dropkicked]

> @gatorMD said:

> Players of the 1st Master women's Am:

>

>

 

It's crazy to think how much of a difference was made when IBM, hired it's first female CEO.. I do believe that having to give her the distinguished membership was a catalyst and allowed for other females members to follow... eventually leading to this day.

[RainShadow]

> @jmvargas said:

> the Masters has the weakest field among the 4 majors but seems the one most pros want to win..

>

> why?

 

Because you can come back and play the course until you die. Pretty simple.

[MilkyButterCuts]

> @RainShadow said:

> > @jmvargas said:

> > the Masters has the weakest field among the 4 majors but seems the one most pros want to win..

> >

> > why?

>

> Because you can come back and play the course until you die. Pretty simple.

 

That, among other reasons..

[3jacker]

If it's hard to get in, it's that much harder to win.

Another of the allures of winning this one.

[dlygrisse]

> @"Birdie Mac" said:

> > @CCTxGolf said:

> > **** that needing to move on ****. You win the masters you earned the right to show up and take a spot. EARNED IT!!

> Granted you've earned the right, but to what end? Why continue to show up with more of a chance of missing the cut than contending? Sometimes the worst reason to do something is because you can. You might check out the GC article bscinstinct posted. It's a good read.

>

 

The Masters has a distinct identity, why try to make it like the PGA? I think the small field and the returning champions is what makes it special. It's tradition, not an all-inclusive Open tournament with the profesional masses participating. It makes getting there for the players all the more special, and winning it arguably the most rewarding thing in the game of golf. Take away the exclusivity and it becomes less special and more ordinary.

[dlygrisse]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @BrianMcG said:

> > Why doesn't Augusta national have a NASCAR race? They could do it in the summer.

>

> And men's Alpine skiing in the winter, maybe some folks other than Austria, Finland and Norway will have a chance! Jamaica might enter.

 

The 10th hole would be highly desirable terrain for a downhill race, they could do ice dancing on the pond in front of #12, there is a natural amphitheater setting there so Jim Nantz could say hello to a lot of friends.

[Hawkeye77]

> @dropkicked said:

> > @gatorMD said:

> > Players of the 1st Master women's Am:

> >

> >

>

> It's crazy to think how much of a difference was made when IBM, hired it's first female CEO.. I do believe that having to give her the distinguished membership was a catalyst and allowed for other females members to follow... eventually leading to this day.

 

And don't underestimate Condoleezza Rice! That was a bold move and she is no wallflower. Enjoyed seeing her patrolling a tee box at the par 3 in '16. Unfortunately, couldn't figure a way to wedge my way in so my daughter could meet her.

[dlygrisse]

> @BlackM00Nlight said:

> One can only imagine where Tiger’s stats would be without the lost years from injuries.

>

> Shoulda woulda coulda though.

 

Yeah...can you imagine if Jack would have won all 19 majors he took 2nd in? ;)

[dropkicked]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @dropkicked said:

> > > @gatorMD said:

> > > Players of the 1st Master women's Am:

> > >

> > >

> >

> > It's crazy to think how much of a difference was made when IBM, hired it's first female CEO.. I do believe that having to give her the distinguished membership was a catalyst and allowed for other females members to follow... eventually leading to this day.

>

> And don't underestimate Condoleezza Rice! That was a bold move and she is no wallflower. Enjoyed seeing her patrolling a tee box at the par 3 in '16. Unfortunately, couldn't figure a way to wedge my way in so my daughter could meet her.

 

Most def a powerful woman..

[bscinstnct]

> @RainShadow said:

> > @jmvargas said:

> > the Masters has the weakest field among the 4 majors but seems the one most pros want to win..

> >

> > why?

>

> Because you can come back and play the course until you die. Pretty simple.

 

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/undercover-tour-pro-2015-03

The Masters? You've found my breaking point. It's a special fraternity, where you get to go back every April for the rest of your life. That's a lot of residual value to your brand as a golfer. And because it's the first major on the calendar, it's also the most lucrative in the short-term. If you and your agent are smart, you can parlay a Masters win into sweeter appearance fees and endorsements for an entire season. Win the PGA Championship in August, and those same marketing dollars have already been spent. And the people who'd write the checks are on vacation anyhow.

[BlackM00Nlight]

> @dlygrisse said:

> > @BlackM00Nlight said:

> > One can only imagine where Tiger’s stats would be without the lost years from injuries.

> >

> > Shoulda woulda coulda though.

>

> Yeah...can you imagine if Jack would have won all 19 majors he took 2nd in? ;)

 

True. I feel like if not for the injuries, Tiger might be at 18 by now. But then you have to play the what if game for everyone else too. So it’s all a moot point but just something to think about.

 

[MilkyButterCuts]

I was watching the 1986 masters episode last night. They keep saying, "this would be jacks 20th major title if he wins today". What are they referring to? Did the players used to count? US Amateur?

[dalehead]

> @MilkyButterCuts said:

> I was watching the 1986 masters episode last night. They keep saying, "this would be jacks 20th major title if he wins today". What are they referring to? Did the players used to count? US Amateur?

 

Jack always considered the US Amateur a major since his and his Dad's hero was Bobby Jones. The rest of the golfing world at that time accepted it also. That's why MacGregor named a model of Nicklaus irons "Muirfield 20th" after his 1986 Masters win. In more recent times we have talked about "professional majors" like Jack's 18 or Tiger's 14.

[dlygrisse]

> @dalehead said:

> > @MilkyButterCuts said:

> > I was watching the 1986 masters episode last night. They keep saying, "this would be jacks 20th major title if he wins today". What are they referring to? Did the players used to count? US Amateur?

>

> Jack always considered the US Amateur a major since his and his Dad's hero was Bobby Jones. The rest of the golfing world at that time accepted it also. That's why MacGregor named a model of Nicklaus irons "Muirfield 20th" after his 1986 Masters win. In more recent times we have talked about "professional majors" like Jack's 18 or Tiger's 14.

 

Not just Jack but most everyone did back then. All the golf magazines, writers, and journalists counted the US and British Am's. For whatever reason this fell out of favor about the time Tiger came along, even though he won 3 of them. So if you want to make that argument, Tiger is one closer to Jack than is commonly discussed.

 

The US amatuer was a HIGHLY regarded tournament for many years, it was won by several career amateurs, including Jay Sigel, and several others. Money probably changed the game more than anything.

[BNGL]

> @dropkicked said:

> > @gatorMD said:

> > Players of the 1st Master women's Am:

> >

> >

>

> It's crazy to think how much of a difference was made when IBM, hired it's first female CEO.. I do believe that having to give her the distinguished membership was a catalyst and allowed for other females members to follow... eventually leading to this day.

 

Crazy until you realize she was the third female member.

 

I have it on good authority that they were set to admit a women members, and then the Martha Burke thing blew up. Then ANGC backed off, because “you don’t tell us how to run our club, we dictate who can become a member...no one else.”

 

[BNGL]

Also a little fun fact, the Masters once asked past champions to not return and wouldn’t invite them if they weren’t qualified after the age of 65. They changed it the next year after Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer spoke up. There was a lot of hurt feelings after that incident.

[MilkyButterCuts]

> @BNGL said:

> Also a little fun fact, the Masters once asked past champions to not return and wouldn’t invite them if they weren’t qualified after the age of 65. They changed it the next year after Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer spoke up. There was a lot of hurt feelings after that incident.

 

I miss Arnie.

[Hawkeye77]

> @dlygrisse said:

> > @dalehead said:

> > > @MilkyButterCuts said:

> > > I was watching the 1986 masters episode last night. They keep saying, "this would be jacks 20th major title if he wins today". What are they referring to? Did the players used to count? US Amateur?

> >

> > Jack always considered the US Amateur a major since his and his Dad's hero was Bobby Jones. The rest of the golfing world at that time accepted it also. That's why MacGregor named a model of Nicklaus irons "Muirfield 20th" after his 1986 Masters win. In more recent times we have talked about "professional majors" like Jack's 18 or Tiger's 14.

>

> Not just Jack but most everyone did back then. All the golf magazines, writers, and journalists counted the US and British Am's. For whatever reason this fell out of favor about the time Tiger came along, even though he won 3 of them. So if you want to make that argument, Tiger is one closer to Jack than is commonly discussed.

>

> The US amatuer was a HIGHLY regarded tournament for many years, it was won by several career amateurs, including Jay Sigel, and several others. Money probably changed the game more than anything.

 

This is the fact. The U.S. Amateur was very highly regarded. The shift to professional majors didn't happen until about the time Tiger came on the scene and I don't think it had anything to do with Tiger as such, but IMHO with maybe some lessening of its stature (not saying there should have been), but who knows. Anyway, it stopped being counted after Jack got to 20 and the focus became "professional majors". Wouldn't bother me in the least if it was still counted.

 

Heck, maybe Gary Player had something to do with it, lol, he probably still had plans to win tons more majors after 50.

[dlygrisse]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @dlygrisse said:

> > > @dalehead said:

> > > > @MilkyButterCuts said:

> > > > I was watching the 1986 masters episode last night. They keep saying, "this would be jacks 20th major title if he wins today". What are they referring to? Did the players used to count? US Amateur?

> > >

> > > Jack always considered the US Amateur a major since his and his Dad's hero was Bobby Jones. The rest of the golfing world at that time accepted it also. That's why MacGregor named a model of Nicklaus irons "Muirfield 20th" after his 1986 Masters win. In more recent times we have talked about "professional majors" like Jack's 18 or Tiger's 14.

> >

> > Not just Jack but most everyone did back then. All the golf magazines, writers, and journalists counted the US and British Am's. For whatever reason this fell out of favor about the time Tiger came along, even though he won 3 of them. So if you want to make that argument, Tiger is one closer to Jack than is commonly discussed.

> >

> > The US amatuer was a HIGHLY regarded tournament for many years, it was won by several career amateurs, including Jay Sigel, and several others. Money probably changed the game more than anything.

>

> This is the fact. The U.S. Amateur was very highly regarded. The shift to professional majors didn't happen until about the time Tiger came on the scene and I don't think it had anything to do with Tiger as such, but IMHO with maybe some lessening of its stature (not saying there should have been), but who knows. Anyway, it stopped being counted after Jack got to 20 and the focus became "professional majors". Wouldn't bother me in the least if it was still counted.

>

> Heck, maybe Gary Player had something to do with it, lol, he probably still had plans to win tons more majors after 50.

 

I think it has to do with the fact that the US AM is now really nothing more than a bunch of college kids getting ready to turn pro and a few older guys that sell insurance that have no chance of winning. It's really no longer a major, you could make a case for it at one time, but I do believe that ship has sailed. I'd even be willing to give Tiger his.......quick, no Googling...who won it last year? Which one of the Molinari bros. won it? Who won the British Am last year?

 

Times have changed, but players like Bobby Jones, Francis Ouimet, Arnie, Jack should be honored for winning it. Tiger winning 3 in a row was unbelievable. I can promise you that Jack took great pride in his two, as did Tiger for his 3.

 

I remember the year end recap they used to do every year in Golf Digest, they used to list the all-time major winners, the Am was included, as well as John Ball's British Am's, quick how many did he win?

[BNGL]

> @dlygrisse said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > @dlygrisse said:

> > > > @dalehead said:

> > > > > @MilkyButterCuts said:

> > > > > I was watching the 1986 masters episode last night. They keep saying, "this would be jacks 20th major title if he wins today". What are they referring to? Did the players used to count? US Amateur?

> > > >

> > > > Jack always considered the US Amateur a major since his and his Dad's hero was Bobby Jones. The rest of the golfing world at that time accepted it also. That's why MacGregor named a model of Nicklaus irons "Muirfield 20th" after his 1986 Masters win. In more recent times we have talked about "professional majors" like Jack's 18 or Tiger's 14.

> > >

> > > Not just Jack but most everyone did back then. All the golf magazines, writers, and journalists counted the US and British Am's. For whatever reason this fell out of favor about the time Tiger came along, even though he won 3 of them. So if you want to make that argument, Tiger is one closer to Jack than is commonly discussed.

> > >

> > > The US amatuer was a HIGHLY regarded tournament for many years, it was won by several career amateurs, including Jay Sigel, and several others. Money probably changed the game more than anything.

> >

> > This is the fact. The U.S. Amateur was very highly regarded. The shift to professional majors didn't happen until about the time Tiger came on the scene and I don't think it had anything to do with Tiger as such, but IMHO with maybe some lessening of its stature (not saying there should have been), but who knows. Anyway, it stopped being counted after Jack got to 20 and the focus became "professional majors". Wouldn't bother me in the least if it was still counted.

> >

> > Heck, maybe Gary Player had something to do with it, lol, he probably still had plans to win tons more majors after 50.

>

> I think it has to do with the fact that the US AM is now really nothing more than a bunch of college kids getting ready to turn pro and a few older guys that sell insurance that have no chance of winning. It's really no longer a major, you could make a case for it at one time, but I do believe that ship has sailed. I'd even be willing to give Tiger his.......quick, no Googling...who won it last year? Which one of the Molinari bros. won it? Who won the British Am last year?

>

> Times have changed, but players like Bobby Jones, Francis Ouimet, Arnie, Jack should be honored for winning it. Tiger winning 3 in a row was unbelievable. I can promise you that Jack took great pride in his two, as did Tiger for his 3.

>

> I remember the year end recap they used to do every year in Golf Digest, they used to list the all-time major winners, the Am was included, as well as John Ball's British Am's, quick how many did he win?

 

Viktor Hovland at Pebble Beach.

Francesco Molinari

I’m not sure.

 

 

[BrianMcG]

It pretty much stopped mattering when the US Amateur just became the stepping stone to big endorsements and the PGA Tour. Its been relegated to JV status simply because the Pro game got so big.

Nothing wrong with that, but there isn't anyone that wins a US Amateur and then doesn't go pro within a year or two. The days of Bobby Jones are long gone.

Its the same reason football QBs, pitchers, BBall players don't count State Championships and NCAA Championships toward their totals. Its all about the big show these days.

[cardoustie]

Bobby Jones winning the slam is still the most incredible year in golf history. No Masters yet. . He couldn't play in the PGA.

And his 4 wins were the world's 4 biggest golf events at the time. Incredible feat when you also add in his disease was starting up as well

[jmvargas]

Bobby Jones 13 majors was the standard for many years and included a bunch of US and British Amateurs and was Jack Nicklaus' target from the beginning...

I remember that there was a big fuss when he reached 14 majors which still included his 2 US Amateurs..

 

I really won't mind if they go back to counting the US and British Amateurs as majors..

 

that would give Tiger 17 and only 3 behind Jack rather than 4..

 

PS..I am not a big fan of changing the game rules in the middle also..