Favorite rule change

[golfortennis]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > No penalty for ball moving on the green. Best change. Totally de-stresses trying to putt super fast greens in the wind. This is especially a benefit in competition.

> > > > >

> > > > > Absolutely. Only one I truly think was needed.

> > > >

> > > > Removing the penalty for stepping on your ball during search was needed as well, but it was a rare occurrence. Does alleviate some anxiety though.

> > >

> > > True. I like that mostly too come to think of it. But.

> > >

> > > . I’ve already heard one cheat already say “ hope I step on it “ while looking for the ball. Any excuse to get their hands on it. Step on it, ball in hand. Now move everything around ( groundskeeping) and then knee drop for a teed up lie. Poof now you’re going at the green from 125.

> >

> > I am shocked. Shocked.

> > That a cheat would say it loud. I figured it would be more like spotting the ball out of the corner of their eye, and "accidentally" kicking it.

> > As was said(might have even been you), the rule changes have just made it so those who didn't play by the rules don't have to change a thing, but yet now they're playing by the rules!

>

> This was in a club event. Same guy when I hit my ball into green side trap a foot from his ball did this. He gets to the trap first. Then takes and picks his ball up to “ identify “ it. Asks me “ you have two black dots as well “? Knowing full well that I announced on the 1st tee that I had a #5 ball and 3 black dots in a triangle. ( same brand as he) . This is a guy I’ve played with 100 times. He knows my mark. After I remind him that mine has 3 he then says ok and places the ball back down behind the semi fried egg it was sitting in. So it’s teed up. I said nothing. We are both handicap committee members. And me saying something would equal an argument immediately, and blow up the day. My bunker shot is first. Tough down hill short sided. I leave it 4 ft beyond hole. He goes ( identical shot with reed up lie ) and it runs out farther than mine and goes down slope. He makes bogey. I make par. So some poetic justice. After the round , I say something. He of course denies it ; and says “ rules say I can identify my ball now and I don’t have to ask to pick it up “. Several new rules help cheats. Period. Only recourse I have next is to start the fight during the round and take us both out. If you think these people aren’t plentiful. You’re crazy.

 

You misunderstand. My only shock is that he said it out loud. Nothing else shocks me about the story.

[bladehunter]

> @Bluefan75 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > No penalty for ball moving on the green. Best change. Totally de-stresses trying to putt super fast greens in the wind. This is especially a benefit in competition.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Absolutely. Only one I truly think was needed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Removing the penalty for stepping on your ball during search was needed as well, but it was a rare occurrence. Does alleviate some anxiety though.

> > > >

> > > > True. I like that mostly too come to think of it. But.

> > > >

> > > > . I’ve already heard one cheat already say “ hope I step on it “ while looking for the ball. Any excuse to get their hands on it. Step on it, ball in hand. Now move everything around ( groundskeeping) and then knee drop for a teed up lie. Poof now you’re going at the green from 125.

> > >

> > > I am shocked. Shocked.

> > > That a cheat would say it loud. I figured it would be more like spotting the ball out of the corner of their eye, and "accidentally" kicking it.

> > > As was said(might have even been you), the rule changes have just made it so those who didn't play by the rules don't have to change a thing, but yet now they're playing by the rules!

> >

> > This was in a club event. Same guy when I hit my ball into green side trap a foot from his ball did this. He gets to the trap first. Then takes and picks his ball up to “ identify “ it. Asks me “ you have two black dots as well “? Knowing full well that I announced on the 1st tee that I had a #5 ball and 3 black dots in a triangle. ( same brand as he) . This is a guy I’ve played with 100 times. He knows my mark. After I remind him that mine has 3 he then says ok and places the ball back down behind the semi fried egg it was sitting in. So it’s teed up. I said nothing. We are both handicap committee members. And me saying something would equal an argument immediately, and blow up the day. My bunker shot is first. Tough down hill short sided. I leave it 4 ft beyond hole. He goes ( identical shot with reed up lie ) and it runs out farther than mine and goes down slope. He makes bogey. I make par. So some poetic justice. After the round , I say something. He of course denies it ; and says “ rules say I can identify my ball now and I don’t have to ask to pick it up “. Several new rules help cheats. Period. Only recourse I have next is to start the fight during the round and take us both out. If you think these people aren’t plentiful. You’re crazy.

>

> You misunderstand. My only shock is that he said it out loud. Nothing else shocks me about the story.

 

Lol. Gotcha. I think he thought it was funny. Was said in a joking way.

[cmagnusson]

> @Bluefan75 said:

> > @cmagnusson said:

> > Definitely a tie between flagstick and the local rule for lost/OB (my local clubs have enacted). Both speed up play immensely, and 4 hour rounds make me want to stab people.

> Funny, my group has barely taken the flag out at all, and voila!, we are now playing in..... eactly the same amount of time as last year. It has not sped up play....

>

 

To each their own I suppose. We're all big fans of playing ready golf, and not having someone tending the pin means everyone is stepped up to the ball a lot faster. Definitely shaving off a minute per green. Our foursome's slowest round of the year so far has been 3:10-ish, and we've been under 3 hours twice. 3:15 was probably our average last year.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @cmagnusson said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > @cmagnusson said:

> > > Definitely a tie between flagstick and the local rule for lost/OB (my local clubs have enacted). Both speed up play immensely, and 4 hour rounds make me want to stab people.

> > Funny, my group has barely taken the flag out at all, and voila!, we are now playing in..... eactly the same amount of time as last year. It has not sped up play....

> >

>

> To each their own I suppose. We're all big fans of playing ready golf, and not having someone tending the pin means everyone is stepped up to the ball a lot faster. Definitely shaving off a minute per green. Our foursome's slowest round of the year so far has been 3:10-ish, and we've been under 3 hours twice. 3:15 was probably our average last year.

 

Agree. I think you'd have to try hard not to be able to play a bit faster at least. My group just played a 6some 9 holes in 2 hours all walking.

[Sawgrass]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > No penalty for ball moving on the green. Best change. Totally de-stresses trying to putt super fast greens in the wind. This is especially a benefit in competition.

> > > > >

> > > > > Absolutely. Only one I truly think was needed.

> > > >

> > > > Removing the penalty for stepping on your ball during search was needed as well, but it was a rare occurrence. Does alleviate some anxiety though.

> > >

> > > True. I like that mostly too come to think of it. But.

> > >

> > > . I’ve already heard one cheat already say “ hope I step on it “ while looking for the ball. Any excuse to get their hands on it. Step on it, ball in hand. Now move everything around ( groundskeeping) and then knee drop for a teed up lie. Poof now you’re going at the green from 125.

> >

> > I am shocked. Shocked.

> > That a cheat would say it loud. I figured it would be more like spotting the ball out of the corner of their eye, and "accidentally" kicking it.

> > As was said(might have even been you), the rule changes have just made it so those who didn't play by the rules don't have to change a thing, but yet now they're playing by the rules!

>

> This was in a club event. Same guy when I hit my ball into green side trap a foot from his ball did this. He gets to the trap first. Then takes and picks his ball up to “ identify “ it. Asks me “ you have two black dots as well “? Knowing full well that I announced on the 1st tee that I had a #5 ball and 3 black dots in a triangle. ( same brand as he) . This is a guy I’ve played with 100 times. He knows my mark. After I remind him that mine has 3 he then says ok and places the ball back down behind the semi fried egg it was sitting in. So it’s teed up. I said nothing. We are both handicap committee members. And me saying something would equal an argument immediately, and blow up the day. My bunker shot is first. Tough down hill short sided. I leave it 4 ft beyond hole. He goes ( identical shot with reed up lie ) and it runs out farther than mine and goes down slope. He makes bogey. I make par. So some poetic justice. After the round , I say something. He of course denies it ; and says “ rules say I can identify my ball now and I don’t have to ask to pick it up “. Several new rules help cheats. Period. Only recourse I have next is to start the fight during the round and take us both out. If you think these people aren’t plentiful. You’re crazy.

 

I don’t run into many people like that, and I’d give some serious consideration to refusing to play with them, or getting them sanctioned in some way by the club.

[bladehunter]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > No penalty for ball moving on the green. Best change. Totally de-stresses trying to putt super fast greens in the wind. This is especially a benefit in competition.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Absolutely. Only one I truly think was needed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Removing the penalty for stepping on your ball during search was needed as well, but it was a rare occurrence. Does alleviate some anxiety though.

> > > >

> > > > True. I like that mostly too come to think of it. But.

> > > >

> > > > . I’ve already heard one cheat already say “ hope I step on it “ while looking for the ball. Any excuse to get their hands on it. Step on it, ball in hand. Now move everything around ( groundskeeping) and then knee drop for a teed up lie. Poof now you’re going at the green from 125.

> > >

> > > I am shocked. Shocked.

> > > That a cheat would say it loud. I figured it would be more like spotting the ball out of the corner of their eye, and "accidentally" kicking it.

> > > As was said(might have even been you), the rule changes have just made it so those who didn't play by the rules don't have to change a thing, but yet now they're playing by the rules!

> >

> > This was in a club event. Same guy when I hit my ball into green side trap a foot from his ball did this. He gets to the trap first. Then takes and picks his ball up to “ identify “ it. Asks me “ you have two black dots as well “? Knowing full well that I announced on the 1st tee that I had a #5 ball and 3 black dots in a triangle. ( same brand as he) . This is a guy I’ve played with 100 times. He knows my mark. After I remind him that mine has 3 he then says ok and places the ball back down behind the semi fried egg it was sitting in. So it’s teed up. I said nothing. We are both handicap committee members. And me saying something would equal an argument immediately, and blow up the day. My bunker shot is first. Tough down hill short sided. I leave it 4 ft beyond hole. He goes ( identical shot with reed up lie ) and it runs out farther than mine and goes down slope. He makes bogey. I make par. So some poetic justice. After the round , I say something. He of course denies it ; and says “ rules say I can identify my ball now and I don’t have to ask to pick it up “. Several new rules help cheats. Period. Only recourse I have next is to start the fight during the round and take us both out. If you think these people aren’t plentiful. You’re crazy.

>

> I don’t run into many people like that, and I’d give some serious consideration to refusing to play with them, or getting them sanctioned in some way by the club.

 

I wish I could sawgrass. I can not play with him. Sure. But no way to have him sanctioned. It would just blow up on me as I’ve already found out. This guy is the vocal guy on the committee for handicaps. Lol. He’s one of these “ nobody plays it down “ guys. Sees it as normal. Sadly. I’ve managed to run off the two biggest sandbaggers through a series of rules enforcement scenarios and just general peer pressure. Not singling either out directly. And what I’ve found is that those two sandbaggers were correct. To compete at this club you have to beat them at their own game. I have to say. They weren’t wrong. The club is full of them. It’s a vocal minority. But it starts with the two owners and comes down in influence. I may have to play one of the owners in our match Play bracket if I win my 2nd match Saturday. If I do. I’m going to withdraw. I’ll not give him the satisfaction of beating me. I may even pull out before then just to let the guy I face Saturday have a shot.

 

I’ve looked and asked around. I don’t have a recommendation of a club locally that isn’t the same , sadly. Best a guy like me can do is play in a group of players that are like minded and keep my head down.

 

I realize my stories are fanciful sounding. Honest to goodness it’s true. I don’t even know if I can name a time when this players cheating has helped him much , but it’s the general lack of the same spirit for the game I have that’s so off putting. I know I’m loud and rambunctious here. But I’m absolutely respectful of people and the game on course. And I absolutely do not want to win anyway except by my own talent and fortune on the course.

 

Same player tried to get me to claim a same model ball as my own during a tournament I lost by 2 shots last month , I had hit a ball into a pond on a layup. And for some reason a same make ball without my mark was on the pond bank. He motions me over and say it’s here . I looked and said it’s not my balll. And he says “ now you know that it could be “. He was out of contention and was suggesting I cheat. I kicked that ball into the pond and dropped and got up and down. Same guy “ found “ his ball in a red penalty area after I told him between which two trees it landed. He hurried ahead and “ found it “ 30 yards back of those two trees with a clean lie. This ball was rolling on the ground. Physically impossible to bounce backwards 30 yards. Anyway. Wish I had the same experiences with people that yo guys describe

[antip]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > No penalty for ball moving on the green. Best change. Totally de-stresses trying to putt super fast greens in the wind. This is especially a benefit in competition.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Absolutely. Only one I truly think was needed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Removing the penalty for stepping on your ball during search was needed as well, but it was a rare occurrence. Does alleviate some anxiety though.

> > > >

> > > > True. I like that mostly too come to think of it. But.

> > > >

> > > > . I’ve already heard one cheat already say “ hope I step on it “ while looking for the ball. Any excuse to get their hands on it. Step on it, ball in hand. Now move everything around ( groundskeeping) and then knee drop for a teed up lie. Poof now you’re going at the green from 125.

> > >

> > > I am shocked. Shocked.

> > > That a cheat would say it loud. I figured it would be more like spotting the ball out of the corner of their eye, and "accidentally" kicking it.

> > > As was said(might have even been you), the rule changes have just made it so those who didn't play by the rules don't have to change a thing, but yet now they're playing by the rules!

> >

> > This was in a club event. Same guy when I hit my ball into green side trap a foot from his ball did this. He gets to the trap first. Then takes and picks his ball up to “ identify “ it. Asks me “ you have two black dots as well “? Knowing full well that I announced on the 1st tee that I had a #5 ball and 3 black dots in a triangle. ( same brand as he) . This is a guy I’ve played with 100 times. He knows my mark. After I remind him that mine has 3 he then says ok and places the ball back down behind the semi fried egg it was sitting in. So it’s teed up. I said nothing. We are both handicap committee members. And me saying something would equal an argument immediately, and blow up the day. My bunker shot is first. Tough down hill short sided. I leave it 4 ft beyond hole. He goes ( identical shot with reed up lie ) and it runs out farther than mine and goes down slope. He makes bogey. I make par. So some poetic justice. After the round , I say something. He of course denies it ; and says “ rules say I can identify my ball now and I don’t have to ask to pick it up “. Several new rules help cheats. Period. Only recourse I have next is to start the fight during the round and take us both out. If you think these people aren’t plentiful. You’re crazy.

>

> I don’t run into many people like that, and I’d give some serious consideration to refusing to play with them, or getting them sanctioned in some way by the club.

Wow, totally depressing, I've never had an experience of such entrenched cheating. Don't think I could stay in a club that failed to address such a culture. (Edit, this was a response to Bladehunter's #36, don't know why it appears like I'm responding to Sawgrass.)

 

[jonnymc44]

> @cmagnusson said:

> Definitely a tie between flagstick and the local rule for lost/OB (my local clubs have enacted). Both speed up play immensely, and 4 hour rounds make me want to stab people.

 

I'd have liked the local lost ball rule last week. Hit 3 into the trees including 2 provisionals. The second provisional was in an unplayable lie so had to take a further drop. Took 11 on a par 4. Was +6 at that point going down 16th hole. Needless to say it took me out of the running.

We unfortunately play to the stroke and distance penalty rule.

[Newby]

> @jonnymc44 said:

> I'd have liked the local lost ball rule last week. Hit 3 into the trees including 2 provisionals. The second provisional was in an unplayable lie so had to take a further drop. Took 11 on a par 4. Was +6 at that point going down 16th hole. Needless to say it took me out of the running.

> We unfortunately play to the stroke and distance penalty rule.

Probably because CONGU doesn't permit its use in handicap Qualifiers and it could cause confusion if available in other Club comps (eg fourball, matchplay).

But we use the LR in roll ups, swindles etc.

 

 

[HatsForBats]

1) Music

2) 3 minute search

3) Option for Flag In

[Carl Spackler3]

Flag in, on drop, 3 minute Lewis and Clarke expeditions..........all good

[hacker49]

I'm really surprised all the love for leaving the flag in despite the article showing you are much better off taking the flag out.

[Augster]

> @hacker49 said:

> I'm really surprised all the love for leaving the flag in despite the article showing you are much better off taking the flag out.

 

It’s only a disadvantage if you don’t putt with the proper speed. If you’re going to roll it 3 feet past, it may hurt you. But once you get to 10 feet past, it’s an advantage again.

 

Just putt with perfect speed and save the time of having to pull the pin.

 

[I_HATE_SNOW]

> @hacker49 said:

> I'm really surprised all the love for leaving the flag in despite the article showing you are much better off taking the flag out.

 

We've played it in since September, and in over 50 rounds and I have not seen the flag reject a putt that should have gone in, yet.

[slocagolfer]

> @I_HATE_SNOW said:

> > @hacker49 said:

> > I'm really surprised all the love for leaving the flag in despite the article showing you are much better off taking the flag out.

>

> We've played it in since September, and in over 50 rounds and I have not seen the flag reject a putt that should have gone in, yet.

 

I've seen two rejected off the stick. I haven't see one helped. That said, on long putts I have it left in. It's like someone tending the flag. Short ones, out.

[dlygrisse]

Leaving the flag in. It just makes lag putting better without the hassle of tending the stick

[Mr. Bean]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > No penalty for ball moving on the green. Best change. Totally de-stresses trying to putt super fast greens in the wind. This is especially a benefit in competition.

> > > > >

> > > > > Absolutely. Only one I truly think was needed.

> > > >

> > > > Removing the penalty for stepping on your ball during search was needed as well, but it was a rare occurrence. Does alleviate some anxiety though.

> > >

> > > True. I like that mostly too come to think of it. But.

> > >

> > > . I’ve already heard one cheat already say “ hope I step on it “ while looking for the ball. Any excuse to get their hands on it. Step on it, ball in hand. Now move everything around ( groundskeeping) and then knee drop for a teed up lie. Poof now you’re going at the green from 125.

> >

> > I am shocked. Shocked.

> > That a cheat would say it loud. I figured it would be more like spotting the ball out of the corner of their eye, and "accidentally" kicking it.

> > As was said(might have even been you), the rule changes have just made it so those who didn't play by the rules don't have to change a thing, but yet now they're playing by the rules!

>

> This was in a club event. Same guy when I hit my ball into green side trap a foot from his ball did this. He gets to the trap first. Then takes and picks his ball up to “ identify “ it. Asks me “ you have two black dots as well “? Knowing full well that I announced on the 1st tee that I had a #5 ball and 3 black dots in a triangle. ( same brand as he) . This is a guy I’ve played with 100 times. He knows my mark. After I remind him that mine has 3 he then says ok and places the ball back down behind the semi fried egg it was sitting in. So it’s teed up. I said nothing. We are both handicap committee members. And me saying something would equal an argument immediately, and blow up the day. My bunker shot is first. Tough down hill short sided. I leave it 4 ft beyond hole. He goes ( identical shot with reed up lie ) and it runs out farther than mine and goes down slope. He makes bogey. I make par. So some poetic justice. After the round , I say something. He of course denies it ; and says “ rules say I can identify my ball now and I don’t have to ask to pick it up “. Several new rules help cheats. Period. Only recourse I have next is to start the fight during the round and take us both out. If you think these people aren’t plentiful. You’re crazy.

 

This Rule of identifying a ball is not a stairway to an easy cheat. Your friend was entitled to identify his ball but after having done that he was supposed to have recreated the lie, see Rule 7.1b.

[bladehunter]

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > No penalty for ball moving on the green. Best change. Totally de-stresses trying to putt super fast greens in the wind. This is especially a benefit in competition.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Absolutely. Only one I truly think was needed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Removing the penalty for stepping on your ball during search was needed as well, but it was a rare occurrence. Does alleviate some anxiety though.

> > > >

> > > > True. I like that mostly too come to think of it. But.

> > > >

> > > > . I’ve already heard one cheat already say “ hope I step on it “ while looking for the ball. Any excuse to get their hands on it. Step on it, ball in hand. Now move everything around ( groundskeeping) and then knee drop for a teed up lie. Poof now you’re going at the green from 125.

> > >

> > > I am shocked. Shocked.

> > > That a cheat would say it loud. I figured it would be more like spotting the ball out of the corner of their eye, and "accidentally" kicking it.

> > > As was said(might have even been you), the rule changes have just made it so those who didn't play by the rules don't have to change a thing, but yet now they're playing by the rules!

> >

> > This was in a club event. Same guy when I hit my ball into green side trap a foot from his ball did this. He gets to the trap first. Then takes and picks his ball up to “ identify “ it. Asks me “ you have two black dots as well “? Knowing full well that I announced on the 1st tee that I had a #5 ball and 3 black dots in a triangle. ( same brand as he) . This is a guy I’ve played with 100 times. He knows my mark. After I remind him that mine has 3 he then says ok and places the ball back down behind the semi fried egg it was sitting in. So it’s teed up. I said nothing. We are both handicap committee members. And me saying something would equal an argument immediately, and blow up the day. My bunker shot is first. Tough down hill short sided. I leave it 4 ft beyond hole. He goes ( identical shot with reed up lie ) and it runs out farther than mine and goes down slope. He makes bogey. I make par. So some poetic justice. After the round , I say something. He of course denies it ; and says “ rules say I can identify my ball now and I don’t have to ask to pick it up “. Several new rules help cheats. Period. Only recourse I have next is to start the fight during the round and take us both out. If you think these people aren’t plentiful. You’re crazy.

>

> This Rule of identifying a ball is not a stairway to an easy cheat. Your friend was entitled to identify his ball but after having done that he was supposed to have recreated the lie, see Rule 7.1b.

 

Yes. But.

1. You could see his and my mark on our balls. Both marks facing up. No need to identify.

2. It was sitting down a good bit. Placing it back into the crater wasn’t going to perfectly recreate the lie. He’d have to build a small blanket of sand around the ball . With the old rule he’d have had to wait on a competitor to ask to put his hands on it . If he asked me I’d have pointed out his mark. He just walked in and grabbed it. No way to force him to re bury the ball . So I disagree. The guy who needs to identify his ball anytime he hits into a bad lie is absolutely trying to improve the lie.

[antip]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > > No penalty for ball moving on the green. Best change. Totally de-stresses trying to putt super fast greens in the wind. This is especially a benefit in competition.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Absolutely. Only one I truly think was needed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Removing the penalty for stepping on your ball during search was needed as well, but it was a rare occurrence. Does alleviate some anxiety though.

> > > > >

> > > > > True. I like that mostly too come to think of it. But.

> > > > >

> > > > > . I’ve already heard one cheat already say “ hope I step on it “ while looking for the ball. Any excuse to get their hands on it. Step on it, ball in hand. Now move everything around ( groundskeeping) and then knee drop for a teed up lie. Poof now you’re going at the green from 125.

> > > >

> > > > I am shocked. Shocked.

> > > > That a cheat would say it loud. I figured it would be more like spotting the ball out of the corner of their eye, and "accidentally" kicking it.

> > > > As was said(might have even been you), the rule changes have just made it so those who didn't play by the rules don't have to change a thing, but yet now they're playing by the rules!

> > >

> > > This was in a club event. Same guy when I hit my ball into green side trap a foot from his ball did this. He gets to the trap first. Then takes and picks his ball up to “ identify “ it. Asks me “ you have two black dots as well “? Knowing full well that I announced on the 1st tee that I had a #5 ball and 3 black dots in a triangle. ( same brand as he) . This is a guy I’ve played with 100 times. He knows my mark. After I remind him that mine has 3 he then says ok and places the ball back down behind the semi fried egg it was sitting in. So it’s teed up. I said nothing. We are both handicap committee members. And me saying something would equal an argument immediately, and blow up the day. My bunker shot is first. Tough down hill short sided. I leave it 4 ft beyond hole. He goes ( identical shot with reed up lie ) and it runs out farther than mine and goes down slope. He makes bogey. I make par. So some poetic justice. After the round , I say something. He of course denies it ; and says “ rules say I can identify my ball now and I don’t have to ask to pick it up “. Several new rules help cheats. Period. Only recourse I have next is to start the fight during the round and take us both out. If you think these people aren’t plentiful. You’re crazy.

> >

> > This Rule of identifying a ball is not a stairway to an easy cheat. Your friend was entitled to identify his ball but after having done that he was supposed to have recreated the lie, see Rule 7.1b.

>

> Yes. But.

> 1. You could see his and my mark on our balls. Both marks facing up. No need to identify.

> 2. It was sitting down a good bit. Placing it back into the crater wasn’t going to perfectly recreate the lie. He’d have to build a small blanket of sand around the ball . With the old rule he’d have had to wait on a competitor to ask to put his hands on it . If he asked me I’d have pointed out his mark. He just walked in and grabbed it. No way to force him to re bury the ball . So I disagree. The guy who needs to identify his ball anytime he hits into a bad lie is absolutely trying to improve the lie.

 

This is all very sad. I suggest it would be best to advise anyone doing this about the specific wording in the rule book under 7.3 and note that lifting the ball when not reasonably necessary is not consistent with the rule and attracts a one shot penalty. If cheats are not called out for their behaviour, everyone suffers.

 

 

[Mr. Bean]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > > No penalty for ball moving on the green. Best change. Totally de-stresses trying to putt super fast greens in the wind. This is especially a benefit in competition.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Absolutely. Only one I truly think was needed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Removing the penalty for stepping on your ball during search was needed as well, but it was a rare occurrence. Does alleviate some anxiety though.

> > > > >

> > > > > True. I like that mostly too come to think of it. But.

> > > > >

> > > > > . I’ve already heard one cheat already say “ hope I step on it “ while looking for the ball. Any excuse to get their hands on it. Step on it, ball in hand. Now move everything around ( groundskeeping) and then knee drop for a teed up lie. Poof now you’re going at the green from 125.

> > > >

> > > > I am shocked. Shocked.

> > > > That a cheat would say it loud. I figured it would be more like spotting the ball out of the corner of their eye, and "accidentally" kicking it.

> > > > As was said(might have even been you), the rule changes have just made it so those who didn't play by the rules don't have to change a thing, but yet now they're playing by the rules!

> > >

> > > This was in a club event. Same guy when I hit my ball into green side trap a foot from his ball did this. He gets to the trap first. Then takes and picks his ball up to “ identify “ it. Asks me “ you have two black dots as well “? Knowing full well that I announced on the 1st tee that I had a #5 ball and 3 black dots in a triangle. ( same brand as he) . This is a guy I’ve played with 100 times. He knows my mark. After I remind him that mine has 3 he then says ok and places the ball back down behind the semi fried egg it was sitting in. So it’s teed up. I said nothing. We are both handicap committee members. And me saying something would equal an argument immediately, and blow up the day. My bunker shot is first. Tough down hill short sided. I leave it 4 ft beyond hole. He goes ( identical shot with reed up lie ) and it runs out farther than mine and goes down slope. He makes bogey. I make par. So some poetic justice. After the round , I say something. He of course denies it ; and says “ rules say I can identify my ball now and I don’t have to ask to pick it up “. Several new rules help cheats. Period. Only recourse I have next is to start the fight during the round and take us both out. If you think these people aren’t plentiful. You’re crazy.

> >

> > This Rule of identifying a ball is not a stairway to an easy cheat. Your friend was entitled to identify his ball but after having done that he was supposed to have recreated the lie, see Rule 7.1b.

>

> Yes. But.

> 1. You could see his and my mark on our balls. Both marks facing up. No need to identify.

> 2. It was sitting down a good bit. Placing it back into the crater wasn’t going to perfectly recreate the lie. He’d have to build a small blanket of sand around the ball . With the old rule he’d have had to wait on a competitor to ask to put his hands on it . If he asked me I’d have pointed out his mark. He just walked in and grabbed it. No way to force him to re bury the ball . So I disagree. The guy who needs to identify his ball anytime he hits into a bad lie is absolutely trying to improve the lie.

 

I am not sure if I get you here. As I pointed out Rule 7.1b says you need to recreate the lie as much as possible but leaving a small portion of the ball visible. Now, if your pal did not do it then it is a breach. So it is not the Rule that is wrong but the player not following it.

 

Besides, from your first message I got the impression he placed his ball in a good lie instead of the bottom of a crater. Now you are telling something different. Regardless of that, do read that Rule and make your friend pay next time.

[RickK]

Repairing imperfections on the green would be my favorite. My least favorite is the leaving the flag in while putting. Yes, it is great if you are shooting distance from out in the fairway with groups on the green but when someone in the group wants it left in and someone else wants it pulled...just a hassle IMHO.

The local rule option for OB has been employed in one of the tournament leagues I play in but not in the other league. Not a big fan of it but it is what it is.

[golfortennis]

So I'm still not a fan of leaving the flag in, but one benefit I just noticed today is that you no longer have to deal with guys who, when you have a long putt and tell them you can see the hole and they can pull it, drop it in a spot that is parallel to their line, but leave it perpendicular to your line such that if you were to cook your putt, you may end up hitting the flag. Could never understand how guys could not figure out where everyone was putting from and find a spot that affects no one.

[larrybud]

> @I_HATE_SNOW said:

> > @hacker49 said:

> > I'm really surprised all the love for leaving the flag in despite the article showing you are much better off taking the flag out.

>

> We've played it in since September, and in over 50 rounds and I have not seen the flag reject a putt that should have gone in, yet.

 

I had a 25 footer on a par 3 a couple of weeks barely touch the flag and not go in. Ball ended up 2" from the hole.

Flag was in straight, not wobbling around. Cost me $42.50 in skins money too. Flag is coming out.

After playing enough this year, I think all of the rule changes have had pretty much <5% effect one way or another. I do like that I can fix damage to the green, but that doesn't come up that often.

[larrybud]

> @Bluefan75 said:

> So I'm still not a fan of leaving the flag in, but one benefit I just noticed today is that you no longer have to deal with guys who, when you have a long putt and tell them you can see the hole and they can pull it, drop it in a spot that is parallel to their line, but leave it perpendicular to your line such that if you were to cook your putt, you may end up hitting the flag. Could never understand how guys could not figure out where everyone was putting from and find a spot that affects no one.

 

I just ask them to move it.

[golfortennis]

> @larrybud said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > So I'm still not a fan of leaving the flag in, but one benefit I just noticed today is that you no longer have to deal with guys who, when you have a long putt and tell them you can see the hole and they can pull it, drop it in a spot that is parallel to their line, but leave it perpendicular to your line such that if you were to cook your putt, you may end up hitting the flag. Could never understand how guys could not figure out where everyone was putting from and find a spot that affects no one.

>

> I just ask them to move it.

 

Well sure, but when it's the fourth time on the same nine you're asking....

[Pepperturbo]

Honestly, I liked the rules as they were. Didn't see any need for change, as none of the changes have improved the game or the skill and scores of those playing the game.

[Augster]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> Honestly, I liked the rules as they were. Didn't see any need for change, as none of the changes have improved the game or the skill and scores of those playing the game.

 

None of those were the aim of the rule changes. They were simplifying the rules and making them easier to adhere to. They are much simpler. They are easier to adhere to. Mission accomplished.

 

I’d get rules questions all the time. Now I rarely get asked rules questions.

 

 

[Maton12]

Leaving the flag in, speeds up play in a group. But when someone wants it out, the flag inners will often putt out first

 

[Circaflex]

> @hacker49 said:

> I did a quick search and didn't see this topic already covered so if it has been sorry.

> What is your favorite rule change? Or do you even have one?

> My favorite is the lost ball rule change allowing you to drop in the area the ball was lost or went OB with a two stroke penalty. I am not a good player so I have lots of shots that end up lost or OB. So it is nice not having to hit a provisional, and potentially loosing another ball or going back to hit another, and again potentially loosing another ball.

 

I like this rule change too. My group has always kind of done this when no money is on the line, or it is super busy at the course. It was always difficult though trying to reason with them, why they would be hitting 4 and not 3 off the tee. Now it takes that confusion away. I always looked at it this way, if you hit the ball potentially OB and we cannot find it, and you did not hit a provisional, you should be taking two stroke. One for the drop, one for the added distance because technically you shouldve gone back to the tee and if you happened to hit the fairway on this one, youd be hitting 4 from the fairway anyways. Now the official rule makes it so.

[antip]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> Honestly, I liked the rules as they were. Didn't see any need for change, as none of the changes have improved the game or the skill and scores of those playing the game.

 

> @Augster said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > Honestly, I liked the rules as they were. Didn't see any need for change, as none of the changes have improved the game or the skill and scores of those playing the game.

>

> None of those were the aim of the rule changes. They were simplifying the rules and making them easier to adhere to. They are much simpler. They are easier to adhere to. Mission accomplished.

>

>** I’d get rules questions all the time. Now I rarely get asked rules questions.**

>

>

Strong agreement from me. We are also seeing this here and in other rules sites as well - the tricky questions are drying up. Almost no genuinely difficult rules questions have arisen for weeks on this site. IMO, this is a tribute to the improved quality of the 2019 rules and their greater simplicity in application. So a big well done to the USGA and R&A. My initial view late 2018 was that it would take 12-18 months to bed the new rules down but I think that view is proving too pessimistic. Good questions will still arise, and the process of Clarifications will continue, but their number is likely to continue to diminish.

The challenge for anyone wishing to contest this view is bring us your questions.