New World Handicap System

[Colin L]

That's my understanding, too.

[nsxguy]

 

I wonder how they arrived at that (5 PCC days per year) though. Did they take only the scores from your club or the scores from all players that day - unlikely I would think since most (all ?) of those outside of your club would most likely NOT have their scores included in those "averages".

Further, I guess there's something in me that objects to not knowing my own differential for the round when I post it. I can post it on GHIN but not know if it's going to be higher or lower once any PCC is applied. It also kind of rubs me the wrong way that so many "strangers", not even in my own club, can be affecting MY handicap (via the PCC.)

I don't know who they are or whether or not they keep trying after their round has gone to heck in a handbasket. I DO know that most of the guys in my club have side bets and/or birdies are worth $, so they keep on keeping on even when they're having a terrible day.

One other thing. Somebody else mentioned about the GHIN scoring. Does anybody know if there will be a new column of adjusted differentials along with actual differential ? Or just a notation that the differential was "PCC Adjusted" (and by how much ?) ? I figure there has to be something like that, yes ?

TIA

[nsxguy]

I believe you're in the USA, no ? Prior to Jan 2020 your handicap is revised twice a month in season. I assume you meant "trending HDCP" would change the moment you entered the score, yes ?

 

[davep043]

Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding, I hadn't realized a difference in procedures would be there in the WHS. It makes sense, if neither match play nor fourball scores are to be posted, there's really no need to consider Most Likely Score. I guess that brings up a secondary question, what will Ireland be doing about this, if they actually DO accept match play scores for handicap? This makes a certain amount of sense to me, but I'm not sure I understand all of the permutations. If the format is acceptable for posting at home, but not in the area where its being played (or the opposite), that seems simple, use the rules where the format is authorized. But if the format is authorized both in your home area and in the area where you're playing, but the details like scoring for holes not completed differ, which set of rules controls? It makes some sense to me to use your "home" rules if the format is authorized in your home region.

[Shilgy]

If I recall correctly from the seminar I attended there will be a column that shows PCC adjustments and exceptional score adjustments. Please everyone keep in mind that PCC adjustments will be rare. And whole numbers only. You will not see a half stroke adjustment. This will be only used on those days that, for whatever reason, the course played exceptionally difficult that day.

 

ps edited...I responded to the wrong NSX post.

 

in addition ...yes NSX, the possible PCC adjustment is based only on the course played. Not all courses in the area.

[Newby]

I have just realised that the attendees at the regional/county seminars did not get all the background paperwork. Only county Handicap Advisors and county presenters were given a draft copy of the EG WHS rules. I don't think the draft will be distributed widely but the final version will be published in time for clubs to make their presentations to members.

[Deceptively Short]

Thank you for clearing that up. I look forward to receiving the finalised version as it will be good to receive the complete picture. Also I really am looking forward to explaining ‘most likely score’ to our members.

[rogolf]

I'm in North America, but not in the US. For several years, Canada's handicap system has updated handicap factor immediately after a new differential is added .

[Colin L]

That's interesting. I haven't planned on saying anything in detail about optional features adopted by other authorities for fear of confusing members.

[Deceptively Short]

I agree that it might confuse members but if posting is obligatory in ‘CONGU unacceptable’ formats whilst playing in other jurisdictions, this needs to be highlighted.

A lot of our members travel a lot to other areas and they’ll need to know if they should post scores they normally wouldn’t do and how.

[rogolf]

There should be an app for that (like everything else). :-)

[Newby]

As Colin implies, maximum score has little relevance in (in WHS CONGU version) handicapping.

In addition, the rules about when and where to post will be clearly spelt out

[Newby]

I reckon you will find the UK version as comprehensive as the USGA version - but just different in certain detailshttps://msga.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Rules-of-Handicapping_USGA_Final.pdf

[nsxguy]

Ahhh, so then in Canada you don't use/have twice a month revisions. You update your handicaps after every round (already).

Got it. Thanks.

[nsxguy]

If i suggested the PCC was made up from courses other than the one your club played, my apologies.

What annoys me is that scores of players on the same course but NOT in MY club go towards possibly adjusting my rounds differential. Kinda sorta rubs me the wrong way

[rogolf]

Yes. I could never figure out why GHIN only updated twice per month. Sounds sort of ancient, and "rubs me the wrong way" - easy for manipulation.

[Sawgrass]

While I agree that it’s odd to have other people’s play impact your handicap, it’s also been odd that playing in 50 mile an hour gusts of wind all day wasn’t in some way accommodated. I bet, overall, things will be more equitable.

[Newby]

The PCC calculation is done on the basis of all players on the course having accurate handicaps.

[bladehunter]

Yep. I can’t get my head around that either. How others are going to be allowed to affect my handicap ? As in I’m known as a really good wind and rain player. Why ? My scores don’t go up. I actually enjoy it because everyone else hates it. Puts me in a good slow smooth mindset.

So now my cap will drop because I score relative same and everyone else scores worse ? Hardly seems fair to me.

 

I also don’t get how I’m responsible for knowing my handicap each day and putting that into play. Does this mean that for a 2 day net event , I may have a different cap day 2 if I play well day 1 ? That’s BS if so.

[KevCarter]

For the purpose of updating a player's Handicap Index after a competition where
the Committee has set maximum limits, the player's full, unrestricted Course
Handicap should be used for the calculation of their adjusted gross score.
For ease of competition administration purposes, the Committee in charge of a
multi-round competition played during the same or consecutive days must
determine within the Terms of the Competition whether a player’s Handicap Index
will remain unchanged for the duration of the competition. It is stronglyrecommended that the Handicap Index remains unchanged between such rounds.
2020 WORLD HANDICAP SYSTEM RULES FINAL.pdf

[davep043]

You'll survive the PCC, the best estimate is that it will effect 10% to 15% of your scores. That means it might effect 2 or 3 of your most recent 20, and chances are that only 1 will be included in the best 8 of those. So a PCC of one stroke on those days might mean a 0.1 stroke change in your Index. The influence will be really small.

As for adjusting between rounds in a 2-day event, that has always been a possibility when the revision date got in the middle. Its up to your committee to determine whether they'll use the updated handicaps for the second day, but the Rules suggest NOT doing that. Actually, the committee can choose to use the handicap from any day they want, they can use last Tuesday's handicap for a tournament today if they choose.

[Newby]

If it is a 'connected' 2 day event I believe any handicap adjustment can be put on hold.

[DaveLeeNC]

I have no objection to the PCC, and I don't even understand exactly how it will work.

But if the expected impact is something like 0.1 strokes, you have to ask 'why bother?'. I assume that the answer is that for some golfers in some places, weather or other condition extremes will create a bigger change than this (for some golfers).

dave

[Newby]

The concept but not the detail has been in operation in Australia, continental Europe and GB and Ireland for many years. I am not aware of any issues.

[sui generis]

But, but, but . . . we're entitled to our outrage over something we know little about and with which we have no experience. It's a stupid Rule and should be reversed because it's stupid. So there!

[Newby]

Outraged in the way we are re total scoring and casual rounds

[bladehunter]

Yes. This is why I was curious. I assumed it would actually be making a real change. If .1 is a good indication of the change. Then who cares ( respectfully ) ? It isn’t going to matter one shot then on play day.

[bladehunter]

Or or or..... thought better of it. Edit. - Hope you’re havibg a good morning Sui. Stay dry. It’s nasty out there

[sui generis]

Semi-nasty at least, the dog and I got only a little wet on our morning stroll. It's about to get cold for a couple of days here in the mountains. I made at tee time at Furman (usually a couple of degrees warmer and less windy than Asheville) but even Greenville has unappetizing windchill forecasts for the next few days. cm

[Sawgrass]

Your old Massachusetts friends will provide zero sympathy.