Best course on bland site

[ryu123]

Pebble Beach & Pacific Dunes are great courses on spectacular pieces of land.

 

What are some very good courses on less than ideal properties?

 

 

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

Talking stick north

Tpc Harding park

Camelback ambiente

 

Interesting topic. Most of my favorite courses are on a great piece of land.

[jvincent]

Whistling Straits was flat farmland until it was bulldozed into existence.

[raynorfan1]

Riviera

 

One of the best courses I've ever played, but the land does't inherently have a lot going for it.

[DandyDon]

Coyote Creek, San Jose, Ca. It's a Nicklaus signature course, with a lot of fun, challenging holes. Unfortunately, It is basically right on the freeway, and in a wind tunnel most afternoons.

[alfriday]

Carnoustie.

[scooter714]

talking stick for sure. it would have been interesting to see what lawsonia links land looked like prior to the steam shovel!!!! the loop is a great course built of a flat piece of land that otherwise might be considered uninteresting.

[burnsniper]

There are tons of great old courses on “boring” land. A few that immediately come to mind:

 

Oakland Hills South

Chicago GC

Oakmont

Winged Foot

 

 

 

[nitram]

Sand Hills Golf Club near Mullen, Nebraska. A fantastic golf course truly, in the middle of nowhere.

[burnsniper]

> @raynorfan1 said:

> Riviera

>

> One of the best courses I've ever played, but the land does't inherently have a lot going for it.

 

Riviera is my favorite course. At least the “hill” on 1, 9, and 18 and the underground river add some character to the land - especially compared to some others I mentioned above. Riveria is a master piece in that basically every hole (minutes maybe 16 and 17) are unique.

 

[Schley]

So what is bland land? Flat and treeless or? This is of importance certainly to define. I don't necessarily think a lack of undulations or hills precludes a course from being great. Royal Liverpool is as flat as can be and wonderful. Flat land does put a larger onus on the architect being creative.

[jli2636]

I would think Streamsong fits this category pretty strongly.

[raynorfan1]

> @burnsniper said:

> > @raynorfan1 said:

> > Riviera

> >

> > One of the best courses I've ever played, but the land does't inherently have a lot going for it.

>

> Riviera is my favorite course. At least the “hill” on 1, 9, and 18 and the underground river add some character to the land - especially compared to some others I mentioned above. Riveria is a master piece in that basically every hole (minutes maybe 16 and 17) are unique.

>

 

Without the (single) hillside and barranca, the land would have absolutely _nothing_ interesting. But George Thomas built a masterpiece out of it. Every single hole has something going on.

 

It's possible that another course had even less raw material to work with (Kingsbarns?), but the result at Riviera has to be the most with the least.

[596]

I'll second Streamsong. built on an old phosphate mine. can't get uglier then that.

[FairwayFred]

> @nitram said:

> Sand Hills Golf Club near Mullen, Nebraska. A fantastic golf course truly, in the middle of nowhere.

 

Middle of nowhere? Unquestionably. Bland site?! Absolutely not! Sand Hills is on one of the best, most natural sites of any course anywhere in the world. It was so good that they moved virtually no dirt building the course and cost less than $1M to build.

 

My vote goes to Trinity Forest in Dallas.

[OutBackHack]

> @FairwayFred said:

> > @nitram said:

> > Sand Hills Golf Club near Mullen, Nebraska. A fantastic golf course truly, in the middle of nowhere.

>

> Middle of nowhere? Unquestionably. Bland site?! Absolutely not! Sand Hills is on one of the best, most natural sites of any course anywhere in the world. It was so good that they moved virtually no dirt building the course and cost less than $1M to build.

>

> My vote goes to Trinity Forest in Dallas.

 

I'm with you there Fred, there are a bunch of idiotic replies in this thread.... How someone could think sand dunes, with cliffs, on the edge of North Americas biggest lake could be bland is beyond me.

 

Trinity is a great answer, awesome course on otherwise wasteland...in the 'hood.

[MakersMarsh3]

Pinehurst #2 comes to mind for me

[burnsniper]

Based on this review of Chicago GC, I dont’ know If a higher ranked course exists on a “bland sites:

 

http://www.golftripper.com/chicago-golf-club/

[driveandputtmachine]

Shadow Creek in Vegas. It was completely flat desert until they built the course.

[TravelingGolfSticks]

I've always been amazed at Wildcat in Houston. It was built on an old landfill so it has a lot more elevation changes than any course around, and has great views of Reliant Stadium and downtown.

[Thunder Dan]

Chicago Golf Club... not close

[OutBackHack]

> @MakersMarsh3 said:

> Pinehurst #2 comes to mind for me

 

Can we all just agree that undulating sand based land is some of the best and to build golf courses on?

The greatest golf courses on the planet are on sand "dunes" Pinehurst included.

[MakersMarsh3]

> @OutBackHack said:

> > @MakersMarsh3 said:

> > Pinehurst #2 comes to mind for me

>

> Can we all just agree that undulating sand based land is some of the best and to build golf courses on?

> The greatest golf courses on the planet are on sand "dunes" Pinehurst included.

 

 

It is. But sand doesn’t make it not bland. Same can be said for many great links courses.

 

Have you played the other good courses in the area?

2 is maybe the best course on the most basic land of the lot

Even compared to 4 the land is bland

[OutBackHack]

> @MakersMarsh3 said:

> > @OutBackHack said:

> > > @MakersMarsh3 said:

> > > Pinehurst #2 comes to mind for me

> >

> > Can we all just agree that undulating sand based land is some of the best and to build golf courses on?

> > The greatest golf courses on the planet are on sand "dunes" Pinehurst included.

>

>

> It is. But sand doesn’t make it not bland. Same can be said for many great links courses.

>

> Have you played the other good courses in the area?

> 2 is maybe the best course on the most basic land of the lot

> Even compared to 4 the land is bland

 

Yessir, I've played them, spent time there... Caddied in US Opens there....I think you're mistaken about the meaning of the term "bland". Maybe you've been lucky enough to not really experience bland.

[PNB_Golf]

Sweetens Cove is built on a dead flat flood plain and from a design standpoint its one of the best courses I've ever played

[hollabachgt]

Seeing courses such as Sand Hills, Shadow Creek, Whistling Straits, Sweetens Cove, and Streamsong on this thread makes me convinced that we should spend more time defining what a "bland" Site is. None of these sites today would be considered bland, but their origin history is so varied that I'm having a hard time understanding where people are coming from.

 

Shadow Creek, Whistling Straits, and Sweetens Cove are purely manufactured sites. the original sites were truly bland, but with the amount of soil movement and construction that occurred the orginal site was completely changed. These courses today do not exist on bland sites.

 

Streamsong was also a manufactured site but in a dramatically different way. The industrial mining that took place on the site generated the topography. The Red and Blue courses were then built through this topography without much additional land work. I view this in stark contrast to the previous 3 as C&C and Doak were not presented a flat blank canvas, but rather built on what was there. Streamsong is closer to Sand Hills in that respect.

 

Sand Hills's place on this thread is puzzling, I can only presume that since such little work was needed to build the course, that the poster was suggesting that was the bland portion. The site at Sand Hills is stunning and anything but bland.

 

I can see why courses like Carnoustie and No. 2 could end up here, both courses occupy land that is generally flat. In relationship to other nearby courses they can be seen as bland, but In both cases there are enough micro features and topography change that the sites are actually quite interesting.

 

A bland site is one with very little topographic change and very few distinguishable features on or near the property. For the site to still be bland after the course has been constructed would require the course to still generally resemble the original property during play. This would eliminate manufactured courses such as Shadow Creek. Chicago is an excellent example of this type of course as the routing utilizes any interest on the property and the designers inputs are very subdued. Dick Wilson's Pine Tree is also often applauded for being a very good course on a very flat piece of property.

 

So rather than listing courses let's go back to the question that was posted a few days ago, what is a bland site?

[AC168]

May need to qualify bland site with or without spending crazy amounts of money. Eg Chicago GC vs Shadow Creek.

[ryu123]

One of the Merriam-Webster definitions of ‘bland’ is dull, insipid.

 

The only course I’ve played among the ones listed is Riviera, and I totally agree with Raynorfan

 

The course is mostly flat except for #1 and #18. The first hole is a short, straight downhill par five & not very exciting. The finishing hole is an uphill dogleg right par four, & is decent.

 

But the genius in Thomas’ design is in the flat areas. The famous short par tenth hole is brilliant & unlike any par four I’ve played on the West Coast or anywhere else.

 

 

[LICC]

> @jvincent said:

> Whistling Straits was flat farmland until it was bulldozed into existence.

 

Maybe but it is an outstanding waterfront site.