Hollow Body vs Cavity Back

[platgof]

There are a lot of new hollow body irons on the market this year, and with the success of the P790, who can blame them! One member said he tried the Pxg G3, and had problems because he hit the ball low, and the feel and performance were not good. I have the same problem with the 16 P790, as I am always hitting it low and it feels and performs horribly. I am now play the F9 irons which are very forgiving on low shots, and am very leery about hollow body irons again. With all the rain this year, the lies are not good, and hitting it low is the only option. Does anyone know of any of the new hollow body irons that do not have this problem, or is this how they are designed?

[Stinger83]

Try the ping i500 retro lofts or Titleist TMB. If that doesn't work it's probably your angle of attack

[chisag]

... Are you talking about hitting the ball on a low trajectory or hitting low on the face? I find the P790's extremely forgiving on shots hit low on the face. When my back is stiff I sometimes have a problem staying down thru the shot and the P790's have saved me. Otoh they also launch higher than any iron I have played. They also feel pretty good to me, not quite up to the forged feel of my Z Forged, Cobra Forged Tours or my P760 short irons, but all in all not too bad in the feel department. Obviously performance is as good as it gets for me or I would not have replaced my originals with 2019 P790's.

[platgof]

I was talking about low on the face. I guess a lot depends on what type soil you have. Clay is not forgiving at all, and this has caused a tone of problems with the P790 irons. I have heard of others who also struggled for this reason. I was just wondering what new hollow body irons do not have this problem. I guess you are fortunate.

[chisag]

... The slots in the sole of the 7-3 iron is what makes the P790's so forgiving on low strikes. I find a noticeable difference between low face strikes on my P790's compared to my P760's that are punished more. From TM:

"To that end, it's not just about building a deeper or larger cavity, Wahl says. Instead, it's using a cut-through opening in the sole in an effort to make it flex more not just on center shots but on mis-hits. TaylorMade says their research shows 78 percent of iron-shot impacts occur low on the face"

... Sorry I did not explain my post well, but I think if you find the P790's don't react well to shots hit low on the face, other hollow irons will be equal to or have an even worse performance on low face strikes. There certainly may be other heavier sole weighted irons that help more but I really don't think it will be any of the hollow headed irons.

[1Mordrid1]

Generally speaking clubs with low mass and low CG will be a little more forgiving when struck low on the face. So the wider sole(mass) could be what is helping you with the F9.

As for the "hollow" design irons, they should be relatively forgiving on shots struck low on the face, because most are designed with a low and further back cog to help increase launch. The PING i500 is an exception to this because the cog is a bit higher on the face.

Your struggles may be more than just striking it low....you may be "flipping" the club and hitting the ball with the leading edge of the club.

[platgof]

1Mordrid1 Thanks, and I think you are right about flipping. I will look into it and see about keeping the hands moving in the swing, because I do get lazy and stay back.

[platgof]

I am going to put some impact tape on the P790 irons just to see what the real problem is. Someone mentioned that some players are adding a 1/2" to the P790 irons length to hit higher in the face. I will try the tape first.

[platgof]

So who has switched to hollow irons? and what brand and model?

[Hot Rod 71]

My miss is thin (low on the face). I have a set of PXG Gen 1 0311T and they are very forgiving on thin shots.

[BiggErn]

Just curious about what the major differences you’ve noticeD between the new 790s vs the older model.

[1Mordrid1]

I played the PING G700's for a while and currently play PXG 0211s. My miss is thin, and both are amazingly forgiving on thin hits.

[RainShadow]

I’m currently playing Cobra Forged Tec, but the jury is still out after a round and a couple of range sessions.

 

[bvanlieu]

Changed logo, upped the price (perhaps settlement with PXG)

 

Minor changes in offset and they say face but when I compared them myself, the ball flight for me did not change one bit. Feel was so similar, I got some OG 2017s to blend vs shiny new ones.

[glage]

Bought the T300 cavity back and am enjoying them. Very good feel and distance.

[mahbles]

Is it worth adding another category, like empty hollow cavity irons like the Ping i500 or goo filled hollow cavity irons like the P790's or PXG? I don't know if you all think it makes a difference but I believe that the feeling at impact between an i500 and a PXG iron are very different in terms of feel. I had the i500 before PXG and I loved the way the looked at address and ball flight was outstanding. However, there was a clicking sound at impact and I gather that's from the hollow body construction of the i500. Feel is all subjective but with the PXG irons ball flight was awesome, club was more forgiving but the feel at impact was muted and in my opinion, felt more powerful. That's my opinion, but I think hollow cavity irons are here to stay, just like loft-jacking.

[platgof]

I guess the Pings need a hot foam guy instead of the hot melt guy?

[chisag]

 

... I wish I could answer that question BiggErn! I was supposed to be in Phoenix Jan 1st but a herniated disc really set me back (sorry for the pun). 2.5 months of PT and feeling really good now. I am hoping to be out there by the middle of March and will post something after playing them several rounds. But my guess is very little, I just liked the look a little more, especially the short irons and was able to pick up the 2019's for a difference of $100 total. Figured it was a no brainer.

[BiggErn]

Gotcha and that is a no brainer for sure. Get well and go play :)

[drscott266]

Mostly cosmetic changes across the whole set, but the 9 and PW got relocated tungsten to help lower trajectory from ‘17.

[bladehunter]

I’m guessing you are a shallow “ picker “. These irons are designed for the steeper guy or gal with a bigger divot. Now you’ll hear some seniors tell you they pick them , probably from a rolled up lie. Notice how even the smallest tee up makes this issue go away ? It’s because your now getting the vertical cog to or below the middle of the ball. The only way to combat this is more shaft lean and a more descending blow. Even then you’re going to fight the thin miss. Which is terrible with these irons.

 

my suggestion is stick with a smaller sole iron with lower vertical cog. I’ve tried to like them. And just cannot. I take long shallow divots. And my miss is a groove low. And these irons stink with that miss.

read you mention clay. I play off clay based courses mostly too. Absolutely part of the issue when it’s hard out or super soft.

[avguy]

I Tried out the P790 V.1 for 1 year with my own shallow divot swing and was not overly pleased. I do better with my 9 yrs. old set of Callaway Razr MBs. Their very low COG and innovative thin soles (for their time) is great for my swing.

But, the TM M5s I was playing same 1 yr. period was a touch better on thinner strikes. Their COG is lower, and noted for the low strike. Flush strikes with the cavity M5 vs. P790 Hollow was different feel, both pretty good still when I compare to my forged 1-pc. MB sets.

[dmeeksDC]

M5 is a pretty nice iron. Covers up misses very well.

[Fellaheen51]

Hollow body, foam filled, forged face and body, narrower sole, nicely sized head, lower bounce, excellent cambered sole design for varied conditions, tolerant of the low strike, modern lofts without going to the extreme, absent zirconium encrusted screws, lower VCOG, relatively inexpensive compared to, looks like a blade but with a number of SGI attributes, dam(n) near perfect for the sweeper/picker.........Maltby TS-1's.

However, unlikely to be included in the discussion cuz' not OEM.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Arent the nike vapor speed irons hollow body irons? I have those they were pretty good imo. Felt good forgiving and has distance. Arent most irons though now kinda hollow body. Im getting the apex 19s they seem to have a slight hollowness in the middle i think?

[chisag]

 

... Good call! Maltby doesn't do Golfworks any favors with their stock pictures of the TS-1's. But I saw some actual photo's on another forum and they look so much better than the stock photo's. Less offset and a thinner top line as well as a smaller looking head. I thought they looked great. Not cheap at $50 a head but still around 1/2 price compared to OEMs if you do your own work.

[puttitin]

On 2/23/2020 at 10:08 PM, platgof said:

I was talking about low on the face. I guess a lot depends on what type soil you have. Clay is not forgiving at all, and this has caused a tone of problems with the P790 irons. I have heard of others who also struggled for this reason. I was just wondering what new hollow body irons do not have this problem. I guess you are fortunate.

Chisag is not fortunate! He's a +1 HC. Which translates into " I can hit any club better than you"

[ChipNRun]

My last set of irons were hollow-body Tour Edge CB Pro Tungstens. Hollow body yes, but due to lower tungsten weighting the soles were not overly thick.

 

If I hit it square, flight was excellent. If I hit it a groove low, it came off lower but got most of the way there, sometimes bouncing onto green.

 

Remember hearing about thin to win...?

 

If I'm hitting the ball cleanly, i get excellent launch from hollow body irons. Only problem was 8i and above... a bit too high a launch. If I had kept the set, I would have gotten EXS forged (CB) for 8i-PW. More medium launch from clubhead.

 

On 2/23/2020 at 9:12 AM, platgof said:

I have the same problem with the 16 P790, as I am always hitting it low and it feels and performs horribly.

 

As for my iron wing, it is slightly flat, a semi-sweeper. Off zoysia, I'll cut turf down to soil about size of a half dollar... on bent, I'll cut out maybe a 2" divot, sometimes replaceable.

 

I used to go to a lot of demo days (remember those?). Generally, if I had trouble hitting iron shots low, it was a case of the shaft was a bit heavy for me - I wasn't really getting through the ball consistently.

 

So, do you have fairly consistent clubhead speed with different irons, or are the shafts possibly too heavy for you?

[morgan1819]

On 2/27/2020 at 6:41 PM, platgof said:

Someone mentioned that some players are adding a 1/2" to the P790 irons length to hit higher in the face.

 

I tried that once, and it was hosel rocket city.  Back to standard, and all was well.

[platgof]

1 hour ago, morgan1819 said:

 

I tried that once, and it was hosel rocket city.  Back to standard, and all was well.

I tried it to and it helped immensely. Moved the strike zone closer to the middle, and did help with the thin hits that are awful on the P790 irons.