Tour Pro Driving Distance

[clevited]

On 10/10/2020 at 10:29 AM, bladehunter said:

I’ll wager a bet that if Bryson shows up to Augusta with a 48 inch driver and breaks the records for under par or margin of victory ...... you can gaurantee a rollback coming ASAP of driver and ball.  Best thing Bryson can do to ensure no rollback is withdraw.  Lol.    Mark it down.  

I hope Bryson comes out and destroys Augusta.  I want to vains popping out of Augusta member's heads.  Then I want to see them continue to destroy their own course with their idiotic and reactionary lengthening.

[bladehunter]

45 minutes ago, clevited said:

I hope Bryson comes out and destroys Augusta.  I want to vains popping out of Augusta member's heads.  Then I want to see them continue to destroy their own course with their idiotic and reactionary lengthening.

Funny thing is.  I predict he doesn’t make the cut.  Distance won’t ever win Augusta.  You have to make a lot of putts.  
 

he can do it.  I like his method. But he has to do it.  There’s no coasting around making pars on length alone.  
 

he’s too much A.I. And not near enough artist for Augusta 

 

 

 

edit - forgot to say ...... 

Edited October 13, 2020 by bladehunter

[OrangeGravy]

4 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Funny thing is.  I predict he doesn’t make the cut.  Distance won’t ever win Augusta.  You have to make a lot of putts.  
 

he can do it.  I like his method. But he has to do it.  There’s no coasting around making pars on length alone.  
 

he’s too much A.I. And not near enough artist for Augusta 

 

 

 

edit - forgot to say ...... 

I hope he does end up destroying the field at Augusta. I could see him melt down and miss the cut, but I would love to see him cutting corners and going over trees to win it by 5+. The ensuing chaos would be much more entertaining than has been for the last 5 years.

[Fairway14]

On 3/22/2020 at 9:40 PM, dalehead said:

. So do we really have a distance problem?

 

 

Not a problem !

 

[clevited]

6 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Funny thing is.  I predict he doesn’t make the cut.  Distance won’t ever win Augusta.  You have to make a lot of putts.  
 

he can do it.  I like his method. But he has to do it.  There’s no coasting around making pars on length alone.  
 

he’s too much A.I. And not near enough artist for Augusta 

 

 

 

edit - forgot to say ...... 

I should clarify.  I want him to bomb his way around the course with a very liberal application of ball speed, height and carry distance.  I also want him to light it up with all the other facets of the game.  I don't want this because I love Bryson the person or player, I just want to eat my popcorn while watching the leadership there further butcher their course in the name of par and subjective aesthetics of the game.

[bladehunter]

7 hours ago, clevited said:

I should clarify.  I want him to bomb his way around the course with a very liberal application of ball speed, height and carry distance.  I also want him to light it up with all the other facets of the game.  I don't want this because I love Bryson the person or player, I just want to eat my popcorn while watching the leadership there further butcher their course in the name of par and subjective aesthetics of the game.

Translation -   Yay change - old Way bad - new way good - 

 

 

What I think you’re missing is , they won’t butcher that course.  It’s the canary so to speak.  

[gvogel]

4 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Translation -   Yay change - old Way bad - new way good - 

 

 

What I think you’re missing is , they won’t butcher that course.  It’s the canary so to speak.  

The real canary is the Old Course.  To paraphrase Churchill, a sport that forgets its past has no future.

Edited October 14, 2020 by gvogel

[smashdn]

22 hours ago, gvogel said:

The real canary is the Old Course.  To paraphrase Churchill, a sport that forgets its past has no future.

 

I am sure they stretch it a bit more for The Open but the black tees (according to the scorecard I just pulled up) is right around 6700 yards.  If there is no wind and it plays firm it is dead.  I really think you'd see the longest hitters easily hitting driver 420+ yards total.

 

The Road Hole is no longer a hard par four when you can play your second shot from just off the green.  The whole challenge of it is predicated on making a decision of how much to bite off off the tee and then what will that leave you to that shallow green that is hard to hold.  If your drive flies all the trouble and you are left with a pitch or even a putt into it you neutered the hardest hole on the course.

Edited October 15, 2020 by smashdn

[mahonie]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

I am sure they stretch it a bit more for The Open but the black tees (according to the scorecard I just pulled up) is right around 6700 yards.  If there is no wind and it plays firm it is dead.  I really think you'd see the longest hitters easily hitting driver 420+ yards total.

 

The Road is no longer a hard par four when you can play your second shot from just off the green.  The whole challenge of it is predicated on making a decision of how much to bite off off the tee and then what will that leave you to that shallow green that is hard to hold.  If your drive flies all the trouble and you are left with a pitch or even a putt into it you neutered the hardest hole on the course.

Ben Crenshaw

“The reason the Road Hole at St Andrews is the most difficult par 4 in the world is that it was designed as a par 6.”

[Pepperturbo]

NO distance problem on any tour, IMO.  Yes, the ball contributes but it's how the PGA and other tours condition fairways that gets the extra yardage.   Part of the reason why it's challenging for the PGA to add NEW courses to the rotation, they take over the course as much as 6 months in-advance.  That's not discount the those players that carry it long, it's to say MOST don't carry it as long as though without help.  The ball and it runs like a scaled banshee.  If someone is averaging 280yds add 30-50 extra yards makes a huge difference.

 

I am older than most here and hit the ball 245-250+, trending 3-4ish, typically max yardage I play is to 6700yds.  Plain and simple, if I play tour prepped fairways I will hit the ball further.  I am not long but consistent when it comes to hitting FIR. 

 

A few years back I played Aviara GC, Back tees,(not actual back-Palmer is back) 72.7/139 - 6590yds the weekend before the LPGA was teeing off and shot 74; same tees the LPGA played.  Also played a course called Redhawk GC, Black tees, 71.8/132 - 6600yds the day after Sr Open Championship qualifying rd took place, and shot 73.  I was hitting 2 iron over 240 and driver 275, and greens were holding nicely.  I was 68 at the time of those rds.  Both courses shaved fairways and greens were running over 12.  I loved it... 

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Block]

37 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

NO distance problem on any tour, IMO.  Yes, the ball contributes but it's how the PGA and other tours condition fairways that gets the extra yardage.   Part of the reason why it's challenging for the PGA to add NEW courses to the rotation, they take over the course as much as 6 months in-advance.  That's not discount the those players that carry it long, it's to say MOST don't carry it as long as though without help.  The ball and it runs like a scaled banshee.  If someone is averaging 280yds add 30-50 extra yards makes a huge difference.

 

I am older than most here and hit the ball 245-250+, trending 3-4ish, typically max yardage I play is to 6700yds.  Plain and simple, if I play tour prepped fairways I will hit the ball further.  I am not long but consistent when it comes to hitting FIR. 

 

A few years back I played Aviara GC, Back tees,(not actual back-Palmer is back) 72.7/139 - 6590yds the weekend before the LPGA was teeing off and shot 74; same tees the LPGA played.  Also played a course called Redhawk GC, Black tees, 71.8/132 - 6600yds the day after Sr Open Championship qualifying rd took place, and shot 73.  I was hitting 2 iron over 240 and driver 275, and greens were holding nicely.  I was 68 at the time of those rds.  Both courses shaved fairways and greens were running over 12.  I loved it... 

 

 

 

 

This is a very valid point.  Professional players get the kind of roll the rest of us usually only enjoy when there's been a drought going on.  I'm sure there are some exceptions at private clubs, but generally speaking, public courses can't set up like this with the amount of cart traffic they get on their turf.   Add in the live coverage Top Tracer data that I am still convinced is tuned up a little bit and you have an issue that is starting to grow to mythical proportions (in my opinion).   

Edited October 14, 2020 by Dr. Block

[Pepperturbo]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Block said:

This is a very valid point.  Professional players get the kind of roll the rest of us usually only enjoy when there's been a drought going on.  I'm sure there are some exceptions at private clubs, but generally speaking, public courses can't set up like this with the amount of cart traffic they get on their turf.   Add in the top tracer data that I am still convinced is tuned up a little bit and you have an issue that is starting to grow to mythical proportions (in my opinion).   

 

You are correct, public courses can't maintain professional tournament conditions.  It's too costly on the budget, and in some cases, detrimental to keeping fairways and greens healthy.  I won't go into labor or trickle-down membership costs.

[phizzy30]

I don't see a problem with it.  Distance is an advantage and there shouldn't be limitations on it period.  That's like dialing the baseball down so that all the MLB players would have similar hr numbers.  It's boring and bad for business.  There are plenty of ways  of gaining distance off the tee.  Speed training and putting in work at the gym are it.    All PGA tour players have access to gyms and equipment needed to do speed training.  There is no excuse whatsoever. 

[smashdn]

20 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

NO distance problem on any tour, IMO.  Yes, the ball contributes but it's how the PGA and other tours condition fairways that gets the extra yardage.   Part of the reason why it's challenging for the PGA to add NEW courses to the rotation, they take over the course as much as 6 months in-advance.  That's not discount the those players that carry it long, it's to say MOST don't carry it as long as though without help.  The ball and it runs like a scaled banshee.  If someone is averaging 280yds add 30-50 extra yards makes a huge difference.

 

I am older than most here and hit the ball 245-250+, trending 3-4ish, typically max yardage I play is to 6700yds.  Plain and simple, if I play tour prepped fairways I will hit the ball further.  I am not long but consistent when it comes to hitting FIR. 

 

A few years back I played Aviara GC, Back tees,(not actual back-Palmer is back) 72.7/139 - 6590yds the weekend before the LPGA was teeing off and shot 74; same tees the LPGA played.  Also played a course called Redhawk GC, Black tees, 71.8/132 - 6600yds the day after Sr Open Championship qualifying rd took place, and shot 73.  I was hitting 2 iron over 240 and driver 275, and greens were holding nicely.  I was 68 at the time of those rds.  Both courses shaved fairways and greens were running over 12.  I loved it... 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that set up is a huge contributor, but is firm and fast a bad set up?  Would that be something they would change to rein in distance?  

 

I hope not.  I am in the camp though that firm and fast conditions bring the ground game into play and that the game along the ground can be a great equalizer and differentiator. 

 

Regarding The Old Course discussion above, links typically play firm and fast.  In the wind and weather that helps to provide the challenge from the course.  With no wind it aids the golfer that can land his shot in a particular spot and who correctly estimates where the ball will run to and eventually finish.  Another good reason of why you want super random hazard (bunker) locations.

Edited October 15, 2020 by smashdn

[Pepperturbo]

4 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

I agree that set up is a huge contributor, but is firm and fast a bad set up?  Would that be something they would change to rein in distance?  

 

I hope not.  I am in the camp though that firm and fast conditions bring the ground game into play and that the game along the ground can be a great equalizer and differentiator. 

 

Regarding The Old Course discussion above, links typically play firm and fast.  In the wind and weather that helps to provide the challenge from the course.  With no wind it aids the golfer that can land his shot in a particular spot and who correctly estimates where the ball will run to and eventually finish.  Another good reason of why you want super random hazard (bunker) locations.

 

Firm and fast is what most "average golfers" don't like because they don't have the level of ball control needed to feel comfortable.  It's not bad on tour, but slowing fairways down would, in essence, affect distance.

 

As I said, I like firm and fast.  Firm allows me to play longer tees.  What that means though, Champions tour players would really feel the effect, they wouldn't be averaging what they currently enjoy.  "These Guys are Good" line would be threatened too.

 

@phizzy30 - You're correct about the effects of exercise or gym.  The reason I still smack the ball hard at 70 is I been working out since my days playing football and subsequent CAT racing, and specialized close-quarter training for in-country activities. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Pepperturbo

[Dr. Block]

Firm conditions are also crucial for the pro's to be able to flight, shape, and control spin with their scoring clubs like they are accustomed to doing.  That's what I enjoy even more then the distance about firm conditions - the increased ability to control how I interact with the ball.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Dr. Block

[Pepperturbo]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Block said:

Firm conditions are also crucial for the pro's to be able to flight, shape, and control spin with their scoring clubs like they are accustomed to doing.  That's what I enjoy even more then the distance about firm conditions - the increased ability to control how I interact with the ball.

 

Maybe I am not understanding your point.  From my BOD club experience firm conditions have little to do with flighting a shot, shaping a shot or controlling ball spin.  All those are controlled by choice of equipment, ball striking skill and how the ball is impacted.  The secondary influence is green sub-foundation which either allows or isn't built properly to accept and release ball spin.  Reason many public greens look great but don't hold, ball hits bounces once, takes no spin off and runs across the green.

 

Yesterday, sure was interesting listening to four mic'd pros playing in the Vegas CJ Cup charity event at Shadow Creek GC.   They liked the fairways and commented about playing shorter "blue" tees but comments were made about the firm and fast greens that were NOT holding, only they didn't say the latter.  They reiterated how great the course condition was.  Still, team captains were giving putts left and right.  If I had to guess, it was partially to insure Par and points was the norm, not bogie and zippo. 

[Dr. Block]

21 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

 

Maybe I am not understanding your point.  From my BOD club experience firm conditions have little to do with flighting a shot, shaping a shot or controlling ball spin.  All those are controlled by choice of equipment, ball striking skill and how the ball is impacted.  The secondary influence is green sub-foundation which either allows or isn't built properly to accept and release ball spin.  Reason many public greens look great but don't hold, ball hits bounces once, takes no spin off and runs across the green.

 

Yesterday, sure was interesting listening to four mic'd pros playing in the Vegas CJ Cup charity event at Shadow Creek GC.   They liked the fairways and commented about playing shorter "blue" tees but comments were made about the firm and fast greens that were NOT holding, only they didn't say the latter.  They reiterated how great the course condition was.  Still, team captains were giving putts left and right.  If I had to guess, it was partially to insure Par and points was the norm, not bogie and zippo. 

My point was more to the firm perfectly manicured condition of the fairways and the consistency of lies they provide from day to day and week to week.  I know when my clubs fairways are firm and mowed I can do things (flight, shape, and spin control) more consistently with my short irons and wedges then when its spongy or on the shaggier side.   I'm not a professor in physics Like Bryson so I may be wrong on this entirely or I'm not describing it correctly, but to me, the firm perfectly mowed fairway gives consistent compression against the chosen angle of attack.  In the sense of the grounds response to the way you're compressing the ball into it.   

Edited October 15, 2020 by Dr. Block

[Pepperturbo]

27 minutes ago, Dr. Block said:

My point was more to the firm perfectly manicured condition of the fairways and the consistency of lies they provide from day to day and week to week.  I know when my clubs fairways are firm and mowed I can do things (flight, shape, and spin control) more consistently with my short irons and wedges then when its spongy or on the shaggier side.   I'm not a professor in physics Like Bryson so I may be wrong on this entirely or I'm not describing it correctly, but to me, the firm perfectly mowed fairway gives consistent compression against the chosen angle of attack.  In the sense of the grounds response to the way you're compressing the ball into it.   

 

I understand what you're saying.  Though we play similar game levels, I don't see that "condition" as that much of an advantage over regular fairways.  I suppose it's tied to all my years playing Inter-club team events at different member courses, and how I see my game and hit the ball.  I also tend to have a shallow AoA with irons but only scrape to turf roots so my ball striking is relatively the same regardless of turf condition.  Have a good evening.

 

 

 

 

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, Dr. Block said:

My point was more to the firm perfectly manicured condition of the fairways and the consistency of lies they provide from day to day and week to week.  I know when my clubs fairways are firm and mowed I can do things (flight, shape, and spin control) more consistently with my short irons and wedges then when its spongy or on the shaggier side.   I'm not a professor in physics Like Bryson so I may be wrong on this entirely or I'm not describing it correctly, but to me, the firm perfectly mowed fairway gives consistent compression against the chosen angle of attack.  In the sense of the grounds response to the way you're compressing the ball into it.   

I agree with you. It is why the pros worry about flyers from the first cut. The ball flight and spin is more controllable from tight fairways. 

[lanejsl]

Roy driving accuracy of 28 percent today. The need for speed may be impacting accuracy.