Do We Fade, More Than Draw As We Get Older?

[rony]

One thing I've noticed as I've gotten older is that I'm starting to fade the long clubs. I have always had a soft draw with every club but have started hitting fades lately. It's new to me and I have to learn how to align for this type of shot. I must admit it's "Pretty" and seems to drop softly out of the sky onto the green on an approach. Perhaps this is due to my swing speed slowing down, but now that I've switched to Graphite shafts, maybe the swing speed will get back up there again. Any other Seniors notice this?

[wkuo3]

Yes Rony,
I had experience the same a few years back, but with more trips to the drivng range, and stetching exercise, I'm back to my game without switching over to a light weight shaft.
My club fitter told me a lighter weight shaft would give me back my distance and game, but I'm stubborn and resisting to acknoledge that I need equipment help.

[idrive]

Until a couple of years a go I played a fade most of my life. It was partly do to over swinging/swinging to hard.

Well as the body started to tell me that I just can't swing like that anymore I took a lesson from a fellow that helped me change my swing. I am swinging the club much easier with much better tempo and form.
My ball has pretty much straightend out and can play a slight draw. I'm swinging easier, smoother and the ball is going as far and in some instances farther. I'm now working on a little bit bigger draw with the same easy swing trying to pick up a little more distance with the Driver.

I wish I'd have met this guy years a go...

[bassman1308]

I'm in the same catagory as 'idrive'. Use to fade the ball but last couple years have learned how to draw it ( most of the time ) (: Slower, smoother swing definitely helps. I'm pretty much self taught and it took me several years to figure this out. Much better to take lessons but I'm kinda stubborn.

[golf9596]

If your flex is a little softer it may allow you to continue to hit the draw. I have always played a fade and hope it never changes, high soft iron shots and no OB left.

[hifish]

I have had a similar experience. I think it is probably a combination of loss of club head speed and shaft flex. My driver head speed is definitely 35mph slower than it was when I was 30. I know this because it was measured back then and more recently. I have been recovering from a hip replacement and has I have got stronger I have moved from an A flex back to a stiff flex. I found at each flex I initially would hit a fade but as my club head speed increased this would turn into a draw. I have always been a natural drawer of the ball. Recently I have gone back to using a stiff flex driver. I find that I'm driving further and straighter but if anything I now have a touch of fade on the ball flight. I'll be interested to see if this becomes a draw in the next few months.

[hifish]

I need to qualify the previous posting. When I say further and straighter, I mean as a 60 year old. I am no way near the distances I could hit as a 30 year old (then I was using persimmon headed woods). Even with new technology I am incapable as a 60 year old of hitting as far as a good long hitting 30 year old.

[Swingtheclub]

Its funny as I get older I fight hooking it more and have a hard time hitting a fade

Mainly because my left arm is weaker and I do not pull enough

[pickerjohn]

I actually find that the fade I used to be able to rely on

has turned into a draw and actually a hook on too many

occassions. Been trying to stand closer and more upright to off-set this.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. As with a lot of things at 69 golden years.

[JonT]

After recovering from an auto accident I started hooking the ball, I think for similar reasons that Pickerjohn mentioned; lost strength in the left arm (nerve damage) and the right arm took over. Rather than fight it I decided to try to learn to live with it and turn it into a draw.

[Nomad Golfer]

I wish !. Still hooking them if concentration lapses. My R7 driver is seriously weighted towards a fade/slice and I drop my wrists a la Hogan at the top of my swing. Also bring my leading foot back. By doing all those the ball (usually) goes straight.

[dcopp7]

All the old guys in my league hook the crud outta the ball

[Shallowface]

The older I get the harder it is to fade the ball. A combination of weaker legs and slower rotation through the shot leads to more flipping at impact.

Lee Trevino switched from a push fade (and make no mistake he hit a push, not a cut) to a draw as a senior, no doubt due to changes in physical strength in addition to back issues.

A happy consequence is that the draw does go further if you can control it.

I will occasionally attempt my old push fade, but it usually results in a double cross into the woods, across the street or into the parking lot.

[scomac2002]

> @dcopp7 said:

> All the old guys in my league hook the crud outta the ball

 

Interesting. I see far more slices than hooks in my sr. men's league. I'm one of the few that hits a consistent draw.

[smashdn]

I thought the thinking was you tend to develop a draw or hook. Read that it is at times related to the individuals' mid section getting larger and having to swing around it rather that having that space to be more upright.

[elwhippy]

With modern gear it is hard to get any shape on the ball, even when you need it.

[Soloman1]

Yes, I’m fading fast as I get older.

 

Oh, you’re talking about ball flight?

[farmer]

> @pickerjohn said:

> I actually find that the fade I used to be able to rely on

>

> has turned into a draw and actually a hook on too many

>

> occassions. Been trying to stand closer and more upright to off-set this.

>

> Sometimes yes, sometimes no. As with a lot of things at 69 golden years.

 

Exactly my experience, and exactly the same age. I don't fight it, just play with (usually) a controlled hook. I wish I could fade one on purpose.

[dcopp7]

> @elwhippy said:

> With modern gear it is hard to get any shape on the ball, even when you need it.

 

As this forum section is a testament to, you surely don't need "modern" gear...

[wkuo3]

> @Shallowface said:

> The older I get the harder it is to fade the ball. A combination of weaker legs and slower rotation through the shot leads to more flipping at impact.

> Lee Trevino switched from a push fade (and make no mistake he hit a push, not a cut) to a draw as a senior, no doubt due to changes in physical strength in addition to back issues.

> A happy consequence is that the draw does go further if you can control it.

> I will occasionally attempt my old push fade, but it usually results in a double cross into the woods, across the street or into the parking lot.

 

Trevino was never a long hitter on the Tour. His ball flight of a cut fade is accurate and that's why he won tournaments in those tough narrow layout.

He could hit a draw if he needs to. As Jack Nichkaus turned and asked him "what's this " when he neede to hit a draw on a fee shot and he DID.

Hitting a draw later on in his life is owing to physical changes with age and injury, but not because it's forced that way. He needed more distance since he had lost additional distance when he got older.

I heard Travino does not play golf any longer ( not in public anyway ) because of his physical condition. I wish him well.

[juggernaut0629]

> @dcopp7 said:

> All the old guys in my league hook the crud outta the ball

 

This is how is at my home course. All the older guys hit draws.

[mocokid]

The opposite, if your body is not moving or is slow, you should draw/hook. Pros generate lots of body turn to hit the fade (USUALLY). That being said, there's more than one way to draw/fade, so don't shoot the messenger (LOL).

[KenL]

If I take my natural grip on my driver it will fade into someone else's fairway. I got some advice that straightened me out. I grip my club so I can see the back of my left hand and rotate my right hand to the left almost to the point where it becomes uncomfortable. It straightened out my drives immediately.

[GLF4EVR]

As usual, I am the oddball. Under 2 weeks I hit 61 & still have a baby fade just like when I was in my teens. Can hit a draw if I have to, but have to really work at it. Still working at the relaxed swing idea. Last weekend on the front had a 36. Then 4 over on the first 3 of the back nine. After my head exploded, swing easy & pulled out a 40 on the back. All the guys my age & older are the same a scomac2002...they mostly slice the ball. Very few have a draw or hook.

[Shallowface]

> @wkuo3 said:

> > @Shallowface said:

> > The older I get the harder it is to fade the ball. A combination of weaker legs and slower rotation through the shot leads to more flipping at impact.

> > Lee Trevino switched from a push fade (and make no mistake he hit a push, not a cut) to a draw as a senior, no doubt due to changes in physical strength in addition to back issues.

> > A happy consequence is that the draw does go further if you can control it.

> > I will occasionally attempt my old push fade, but it usually results in a double cross into the woods, across the street or into the parking lot.

>

> Trevino was never a long hitter on the Tour. His ball flight of a cut fade is accurate and that's why he won tournaments in those tough narrow layout.

> He could hit a draw if he needs to. As Jack Nichkaus turned and asked him "what's this " when he neede to hit a draw on a fee shot and he DID.

> Hitting a draw later on in his life is owing to physical changes with age and injury, but not because it's forced that way. He needed more distance since he had lost additional distance when he got older.

> I heard Travino does not play golf any longer ( not in public anyway ) because of his physical condition. I wish him well.

 

Again, Lee never hit a "cut fade," at least not as his stock shot. He hit a push fade. A completely different shot. If you can score a copy of Lee's instruction book, "Groove Your Golf Swing My Way," (which may well set you back three figures as it is hard to find. I have a copy as well as a copy of the version published in England titled "Swing My Way.") you will see the difference. It is one of the best instruction books I have ever read.

Lee played in the Saturday Legends event at the Insperity Invitational back in May. He looked and played just fine, especially for someone who will be 80 in December. I've heard nothing of the sort that he's given up playing in any way, shape or form.

Here's a link to a site that has an excerpt from a 1979 Golf Magazine article where Lee describes his push fade.

http://www.advancedballstriking.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3509

I wish Golf Channel would do one of their multi-episode instructional series with Lee. If he didn't feel he could demonstrate his point of view as well as he would like, he could comment on footage of his swing when he was in his prime and talk about what he was doing and thinking. I believe he is very likely one of the top 5 in history when it comes to swing knowledge and how to play the game, and I'm afraid it is going to go with him if someone doesn't act to preserve that knowledge.

 

[mocokid]

Remember him on sunday afternoon at Shinnecock 1986 on a par 3, he kicked some turf, placed the ball down, then hit a slightly low rope that never moved right or left. From an open stance I guess that's a push, a very STRAIGHT push.

[ChipNRun]

In an old video clip, Lee Trevino suggests the draw puts less strain on the back then the fade. A chiropractor I visited plays golf, and he concurs that the draw is less strain.

 

To maintain my draw, I had to go from a neutral to a strong grip this season. Don't know why, other than I'm not quite as handsy and am swinging more smoothly.

 

With the draw, my miss is a push into the first cut rough, or on the right edge of the fairway. I can live with it.

[juggernaut0629]

> @dcopp7 said:

> All the old guys in my league hook the crud outta the ball

 

This is how it is at my home course. All the older guys hit draws.

[dlygrisse]

I am fading the ball now more than I used to, I think it has more to do with my drivers weighting. The Ping drivers are more fade biased than my previous ones I believe. Coming from mostly Callaway. I can still work it both ways but my natural shot used to be pretty straight and maybe fell a bit left, with my miss being a duck hook. Now my miss tends to be a push.

[morganmonroe]

This is an interesting thread. I faded for years but the last 2-3 have started drawing more and didn't know why, really. (Just hit 6-0) I think it was a lack of rotation as some of you have mentioned. To compensate a bit, I've been working on loading my right leg more on the backswing and being more deliberate about making sure I complete my turn. That has straightened my ball flight out. Went to the range today and was hitting both fades and draws by just by opening and closing my stance - and LOADING enough. Not loading enough or finishing the backswing was like the 'box of chocolates'.

 

Thanks for the observations, gentlemen.