Really TXG?

[wobgon]

It is time for some posters and TXG to consider getting a room. 

[puttingmatt]

The issue I have with puring, is on adjustable shaft positions with modern drivers.  Puring was said to find shaft seams and shaft runout. Once found you were to position the shaft in either the 12 oclock or 3 oclock position to the clubhead.

New adjustable shafts can be anywhere, so how does that benefit the user, fortunately, shaft manufacturers have tighter tolerances , which is why I feel, shaft puring is not as big of a benefit. 

[Valtiel]

6 hours ago, wobgon said:

It is time for some posters and TXG to consider getting a room. 

This seems to be all you contribute to threads about them, but i'm curious if you're actually reading? I'm seeing a helluva lot more "I enjoy TXG but they aren't perfect" types of posts than whatever mindless exaltation you seem to be reading into them. 

[wobgon]

47 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

This seems to be all you contribute to threads about them, but i'm curious if you're actually reading? I'm seeing a helluva lot more "I enjoy TXG but they aren't perfect" types of posts than whatever mindless exaltation you seem to be reading into them. 

Nope, love to post in threads without reading any of the other posts..... That is except for yours of course.

[noodle3872]

2 hours ago, puttingmatt said:

The issue I have with puring, is on adjustable shaft positions with modern drivers.  Puring was said to find shaft seams and shaft runout. Once found you were to position the shaft in either the 12 oclock or 3 oclock position to the clubhead.

New adjustable shafts can be anywhere, so how does that benefit the user, fortunately, shaft manufacturers have tighter tolerances , which is why I feel, shaft puring is not as big of a benefit. 

I think you’d have the the shaft in the 12 o’clock position and the loft sleeve set to whatever position you’d install it in the head. Then you have to leave it alone. 

[JCAG]

19 minutes ago, noodle3872 said:

I think you’d have the the shaft in the 12 o’clock position and the loft sleeve set to whatever position you’d install it in the head. Then you have to leave it alone. 

Like SST or not, what you say is true. Let us assume you have a shaft Pured at say the Neutral position on an adjustable sleeve. Also to make it easier, let it correspond to a specific grip position. So now I adjust the adapter sleeve. In order to get the result from the adjustment, I should have the shaft and grip alignment as I did in the Neutral position for the adapter sleeve to have an effect. If I twist the alignment when I grip the club, I might be defeating the new adapter sleeve position.

 

Forget SST. Look at the above and ask yourself, am I defeating the adapter sleeve change with my grip and head position? Look at it another way.  If I normally address the ball with say a square face and I then adjust the adapter for a closed face but I still address the ball with a square face,  have I defeated the sleeve adjustment?

 

Think about it.

Edited December 28, 2020 by JCAG

[puttingmatt]

14 hours ago, JCAG said:

Like SST or not, what you say is true. Let us assume you have a shaft Pured at say the Neutral position on an adjustable sleeve. Also to make it easier, let it correspond to a specific grip position. So now I adjust the adapter sleeve. In order to get the result from the adjustment, I should have the shaft and grip alignment as I did in the Neutral position for the adapter sleeve to have an effect. If I twist the alignment when I grip the club, I might be defeating the new adapter sleeve position.

 

Forget SST. Look at the above and ask yourself, am I defeating the adapter sleeve change with my grip and head position? Look at it another way.  If I normally address the ball with say a square face and I then adjust the adapter for a closed face but I still address the ball with a square face,  have I defeated the sleeve adjustment?

 

Think about it.

Well you know the answer, and thats why puring shafts with non adjustable hosels had  merit, years ago. With todays equipment and tighter tolerances, its questionable at best. Personally, I think it doesn't. YMMV.

[SUMM1T]

On 12/27/2020 at 9:04 AM, wobgon said:

It is time for some posters and TXG to consider getting a room. 

 

Or, and stick with me here, some people could find actual value in their channel and you see that as "needing to get a room". Not much substance in your comment, similar to what the "cool kid" in school did when making a quick jab at other classmates. 

[Tzoid]

So the fact that TXG did a video that supports that SST PURE had no benefit while comparing ACCRA shafts turns into a 6 page debate on the value of their entire YouTube channel. ???

I personally enjoy most of what they produce and calling them Charlatans is way off base.  I would like to see other shafts and players with slower swing speeds tested but the rhetoric 

in this thread tells me some won't be satisfied with anything TSG puts out. They review Ben Hogan, New Level golf and other direct to consumer products so I don't get accusing them of just trying to sell something.  They actually always stress that people go get fitted and last I checked I'm nowhere near a TXG so they won't get a dime from me. 

 

[wobgon]

2 hours ago, SUMM1T said:

 

Or, and stick with me here, some people could find actual value in their channel and you see that as "needing to get a room". Not much substance in your comment, similar to what the "cool kid" in school did when making a quick jab at other classmates. 

Sorry...Not sure what came over me....Obviously these guys are head and shoulders above anyone else when it comes to telling other golfers what is what.....Hope some day all on the internet can rise to their standards.....And that music.  Wow.....Thanks, 

                                                                                    Cool kid.

[SUMM1T]

1 hour ago, wobgon said:

Sorry...Not sure what came over me....Obviously these guys are head and shoulders above anyone else when it comes to telling other golfers what is what.....Hope some day all on the internet can rise to their standards.....And that music.  Wow.....Thanks, 

                                                                                    Cool kid.

 

You have a natural gift of using a lot of words and still saying nothing. 

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, jmorrow020 said:

 

Whats funny is MOST people aren't near a TXG hahaha, but you gotta give them credit for having national recognition because of what they have done with their channel, which for the most part provides good detail. Theyre major flaw, as with any other channel or influencer is that its all based on one or two guys. And if your swing speed isnt like theirs... the information doesnt really help much. 

 

Its a big problem with reviews in general. If somebodys swing is completely different than yours and they produce different path and swing numbers... that review cant be helpful to you. 

I strongly disagree that the information can't be helpful, because it is all patterns and data regardless of whether they specifically apply directly to you. My swing is also nothing like Matt's, but I have learned a handful of useful bits e.g. what is most effective in mitigating a toe miss, how CG relates to spin and where problems arise for people who deliver less loft, how different shafts with different balance points can throw off your timing/feel, and the importance of spin vs. trajectory when it comes to playing in the wind, and that is just to name a few. There are plenty of objective things you can take away from their content regardless of Matt's swing. 

[Valtiel]

2 minutes ago, jmorrow020 said:

 

I agree with everything you just said. I was more referring to people who watch guys like Shiels or Crossfield just because they like their personality and they buy their equipment off of what those guys like or dont like. 

 

What you are referencing has nothing to do with opinions or relations, its all based on numbers and stats. Which is the part I love, and the part that really only TXG is accomplishing right now. 

Gotcha, sorry for the misunderstanding. Like I mentioned in the Autoflex thread though, I would like to see all the optimization they do in the studio taken outside with the same GCQuad and "wrapped up" so to speak. It would be interesting to see the ways in which a fit is tweaked in real world conditions, because I think it is safe to say that Matt's Mavrik setup was a darling in the studio but was a bit of a flop on the course, and to go the extra mile to break down what happened there would a nice extra layer of detail. 

[Tzoid]

My attempt to Sum this all up is the following.

1. Data Matters
2. Don't rely on Mfg. Marketing Claims
3. It's ok to watch others Test Gear but you need to validate yourself
4. Always get fitted with Ball, Club, Swing Data ( TrackMan, FlightScope, Foresight GC Quad ) 
5. Be Nice to others 
6. Love your Momma
7. Bourbon over Scotch
8. Jack is the GOAT

[SUMM1T]

The people who have an issue with TXG are the ones that don't really pay much attention during the videos. Ian, specifically, drops so much knowledge and information during the Q&As as well as other videos. He has an incredible amount of experience and knowledge. You don't get to where he is by chance and luck. If you pay enough attention to their videos, you can get a lot out of them regardless if they swing like you or not. 

[QuigleyDU]

I like TXG but as with EVERYTHING golf. Your mileage may vary.. Take what they say and see how it applies to you. It seems to me they work hard to stay very neutral in their assessments and try to be intellectually honest. 

 

You can look at their best driver test which the Callaway Mav SZ won with the Ventus black as an example. It won but matt still really didn't put it in play and kind of moved on from it. 

 

In the world of golf reviews, that is difficult. TXG is not perfect. I don't even think they try to be perfect. But they seem to try to be honest.. 

 

We watched them play outside and it was a decent round. Nothing spectacular. It is what you would expect to see from two guys who shoot in the low to mid 70s. A combined few under par. 

[wobgon]

3 hours ago, SUMM1T said:

 

You have a natural gift of using a lot of words and still saying nothing. 

Thank you.

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, QuigleyDU said:

I like TXG but as with EVERYTHING golf. Your mileage may vary.. Take what they say and see how it applies to you. It seems to me they work hard to stay very neutral in their assessments and try to be intellectually honest. 

 

You can look at their best driver test which the Callaway Mav SZ won with the Ventus black as an example. It won but matt still really didn't put it in play and kind of moved on from it. 

 

In the world of golf reviews, that is difficult. TXG is not perfect. I don't even think they try to be perfect. But they seem to try to be honest.. 

 

We watched them play outside and it was a decent round. Nothing spectacular. It is what you would expect to see from two guys who shoot in the low to mid 70s. A combined few under par. 

Well said, and it was that driver test where I picked up the very useful info about CG bias and adjustability. Matt being a low spin, toe miss guy meant that he really needed stability and ideally a fade bias to reign in his misses and keep him in the fairway. I had predicted that nothing was going to unseat the G410 he had in play because it was so perfectly suited to where he needed the most help (high MOI for stability, very fade biased with the weight in the toe, and medium/high CG to keep the spin from getting too low), so I was disappointed to see a much lower MOI, lower CG driver end up winning because I had a strong hunch it wasn't going to translate to the course. Classic launch monitor queen setup that left me a little disappointed in the fitting process that resulted in that selection. Not that it wasn't thorough or detailed enough in the studio, but at a certain point you have to either incorporate on course testing or account for the fact that one formula has worked so well for multiple driver releases that a large deviation from that formula is likely to end poorly even if the results were good on a specific day. 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Valtiel

[Red4282]

7 hours ago, jmorrow020 said:

 

Whats funny is MOST people aren't near a TXG hahaha, but you gotta give them credit for having national recognition because of what they have done with their channel, which for the most part provides good detail. Theyre major flaw, as with any other channel or influencer is that its all based on one or two guys. And if your swing speed isnt like theirs... the information doesnt really help much. 

 

Its a big problem with reviews in general. If somebodys swing is completely different than yours and they produce different path and swing numbers... that review cant be helpful to you. 

I see this talking point alot, not sure why people feel this where but it coudlnt be any further from the truth. Just a quick example. If a tester hits two clubs, and club “B” launches a degree higher, given delivery and strikes were nearly identical, it tells you that club “B” will launch higher than club “A” regardless of swing speed or paths or what not. Thats valuable information.

[5baytjd]

3 hours ago, Tzoid said:

My attempt to Sum this all up is the following.

1. Data Matters
2. Don't rely on Mfg. Marketing Claims
3. It's ok to watch others Test Gear but you need to validate yourself
4. Always get fitted with Ball, Club, Swing Data ( TrackMan, FlightScope, Foresight GC Quad ) 
5. Be Nice to others 
6. Love your Momma
7. Bourbon over Scotch
8. Jack is the GOAT

I like how your points 1 and 8 dovetail so nicely.  Count the majors -- GOAT = Jack

[Mookieb10]

Some people’s perspective of the world leaves me puzzled. My level of expectation from people who I don’t know is very, very low. Essentially, “don’t make my life worse and I won’t make yours worse ”. Some people just expect to be given everything. Two guys at TXG produce some golf videos. Nobody is forced to watch them and nobody is forced to buy anything. Yet still, the complaints. 99.5% of viewers won’t purchase a single product from TXG, who, by the way are a product retailer. And you have some people complain that a product retailer isn’t giving lessons. You know the funny part? THEY DO INCORPORATE LESSONS INTO THEIR VIDEO LINEUP. Absolute belligerents. You’re welcome to have any opinion, but please, base it on the truth. 
 

These people must have a wife that cooks like aunt jemima, looks like Cindy Crawford, lays like p**n star and is also a sugar mama cause there’s no way you can go through life with expectations like this and still be a happy and fulfilled human. 

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, Mookieb10 said:

Some people’s perspective of the world leaves me puzzled. My level of expectation from people who I don’t know is very, very low. Essentially, “don’t make my life worse and I won’t make yours worse ”. Some people just expect to be given everything. Two guys at TXG produce some golf videos. Nobody is forced to watch them and nobody is forced to buy anything. Yet still, the complaints. 99.5% of viewers won’t purchase a single product from TXG, who, by the way are a product retailer. And you have some people complain that a product retailer isn’t giving lessons. You know the funny part? THEY DO INCORPORATE LESSONS INTO THEIR VIDEO LINEUP. Absolute belligerents. You’re welcome to have any opinion, but please, base it on the truth. 
 

These people must have a wife that cooks like aunt jemima, looks like Cindy Crawford, lays like p**n star and is also a sugar mama cause there’s no way you can go through life with expectations like this and still be a happy and fulfilled human. 

That is really good!  But...  Hmmm, aren't violating your own principles with your attack on some people here?  

[Evolved]

We're days away from 2021 and somehow "puring" is still a debated issue on this site? Kim Braly says it's a waste, that's good enough for me. And the way graphite shafts are made today it isn't needed there either.

 

As for TXG, "chicks dig the long ball". People tune in to watch Matt hit bombs. Watch their v-logs, he's much shorter on course.

[Red4282]

Their review today of the diamana TB, matt said he would tip and PURE it... i took it as he was joking, at least id hope so, cause it goes against their “findings” of PUREing.  I also thought it was all little funny when he acted surprised at more ball speed when they went to a lower lofted head.. are they trolling us? Lol

 

dont rip my head of txg lovers, it was a good review and i enjoyed the video.

[JCAG]

The main naysayers about the upmarket fitting businesses are primarily from those that cannot afford them or those pushing another type fitting. Always look for the smoking gun.

 

[RobS]

I've had a handful of wood shafts and a couple of iron sets SST pured.  I look at it more as a placebo.  It doesn't hurt and I can only assume but not really prove that it helps.  If I was playing for a living I'd always do it just in case it helps but as am amateur golfer, it's hard for me to see the value at the typical add cost. 

 

As far as TXG goes, I think they have good, well produced content.  It's my opinion that these high end fitting operations are selling the experience as much as they are selling game improvement.  I do believe that they are trying to put people in gear that will help their game.  At the same time I think that the same results can be achieved with less pomp and circumstance.  This isn't a criticism as I have been through several 'high end' fittings and would likely try out the TXG experience if they were convenient to me.  I'm a gear head and highly technical, so I enjoy that process even if I don't think I really need it to play my best golf.  I can also say that I've been put it great performing clubs with relatively short and simple fitting processes and stock options. When you go to boutique fitters, you need to understand that you're going to swing more LAGP's and TPT's than Aldila NV's and Hzrdus Smokes because that's part of the experience and what most of their target customers are looking to do.  There's also nothing wrong with asking to try the stock and lower upcharge options and forgoing the more exotic choices while still going through the same fitting process.  In the end, there are people who think the high end fitting is waste of money and people who think a free fitting like Titleist Thursdays is a waste of time.  They can both be effective but with a different experience.

[Mookieb10]

10 hours ago, Nels55 said:

That is really good!  But...  Hmmm, aren't violating your own principles with your attack on some people here?  

Perhaps. I’ll have to give it some thought. I would argue that my statement didn’t rise to the level of an “attack” though. Just a bit of a rant, but I get your point. 

[Nels55]

22 minutes ago, Mookieb10 said:

Perhaps. I’ll have to give it some thought. I would argue that my statement didn’t rise to the level of an “attack” though. Just a bit of a rant, but I get your point. 

 

Thinking about it, possibly your statement; "Essentially, “don’t make my life worse and I won’t make yours worse ”."  might be the qualification for your "rant"?  In any case I pretty much agree with what you said so it was probably an unnecessary question on my part in the first place.  It was just something that crossed my mind when I read your post.

[noodle3872]

Interesting read....

 

https://www.morningread.com/the-equipment-insider/feature/2020-04-02/golf-shafts-to-pure-or-not-to-pure

 

And the list....which is interesting 

http://sstpure.com/pro-players/

Edited December 30, 2020 by noodle3872

[Fairways_and_Greens]

It completely depends on the shaft. Older shafts like Dynamic Gold with a weld seam in them are extremely "lumpy" and depending on their orientation can play significantly stiffer/softer. You can see it just looking down a DG blank. Contrast that with a Modus, it's hard to find the spine, and when you look down it it looks almost as good on the inside as the outside. I would never play DGs without at least aligning the spines of the shafts... 

 

As a side note, I once got to play with Dustin Johnson's set of backups. The DGs in them were the smoothest I've ever felt. Even though they were stiffer, I felt they had less flex than my Modus 125s.

 

It also depends on the golfer. Some of use keep the face square to path and require zero manipulation as we pivot through the ball. Some of us with an open face need to flip and some with a closed face need to hold off... Puring will be different for all those releases.