2021 Callaway Epic Speed, Epic Max, Epic LS drivers (in-hand photos)

[jeffrey r]

20 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

 

They said the IM10 was in stock, but he said even in a stock config the MMT 60 was BO. 

 

I went with the HZRDUS Yellow instead of the IM10 since it's not a 'made for' shaft and I'm a snob lol - and I hit the HZRDUS Yellow once in a Titleist fitting and it worked well IIRC.

 

Wild on the MMT 60.  Guess I'll see.

 

Curious why you think the IM10 is "made for".  In recent years, whether Rogue White, or Smoke Black, or Evenflow Riptide, or Tensei, etc., I don't recall any of them being "made for".  The IM 10 shafts I demo'd did not seem to be any different from the OEM.

[jeffrey r]

50 minutes ago, BirdieBob said:

MGS  2021 Driver shoot out 

 

When it comes to overall performance, the Callaway Epic Max LS put on an amazing display. This driver’s outstanding performance across multiple key metrics made it the undisputed winner of the 2021 Most Wanted Driver Test. Here they are:

• 1st in Strokes Gained
• 1st in Total Distance
• 6th in Forgiveness
• 62% Fairways Hit
• 138.57 mph Ball Speed

 

 

Amazing showing by the Max LS.  First in distance, first in strokes gained, 6th in forgiveness.  Max 4th in forgiviness and 8th in strokes gained.  I originally had my order in for the 9* head in both the Max and Max LS, but then changed my order to the 10.5* Max LS.  Having second thoughts on that to maybe switch back to the 9* Max LS.  

[SwooshLT]

9 minutes ago, jeffrey r said:

 

Amazing showing by the Max LS.  First in distance, first in strokes gained, 6th in forgiveness.  Max 4th in forgiviness and 8th in strokes gained.  I originally had my order in for the 9* head in both the Max and Max LS, but then changed my order to the 10.5* Max LS.  Having second thoughts on that to maybe switch back to the 9* Max LS.  

 

 

I'm testing epic flash sub zero 9* in +2D setting........if this works OK then I'll feel pretty comfortable in getting 9* LS head....I've also got 10.5* 17 epic that's working but into the wind is a struggle....hence wanting the hopefully in between LS !

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, BirdieBob said:

MGS  2021 Driver shoot out 

 

When it comes to overall performance, the Callaway Epic Max LS put on an amazing display. This driver’s outstanding performance across multiple key metrics made it the undisputed winner of the 2021 Most Wanted Driver Test. Here they are:

• 1st in Strokes Gained
• 1st in Total Distance
• 6th in Forgiveness
• 62% Fairways Hit
• 138.57 mph Ball Speed

 

 

 

 

 

So how does it work for YOU ???

[SwooshLT]

6 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

So how does it work for YOU ???

 I don't think he has it ; was only sharing information 

[Warrick]

I was set to finally hit my Speed on Sunday, but weather forced a reschedule, going to simulator on Wednesday afternoon for initial go

Edited February 22, 2021 by Warrick

[nsxguy]

54 minutes ago, jeffrey r said:

 

Wild on the MMT 60.  Guess I'll see.

 

Curious why you think the IM10 is "made for".  In recent years, whether Rogue White, or Smoke Black, or Evenflow Riptide, or Tensei, etc., I don't recall any of them being "made for".  The IM 10 shafts I demo'd did not seem to be any different from the OEM.

 

There are many shafts made in a "regular" form and a "premium" form. Better(?), more expensive materials and tighter tolerances are generally hallmarks of the premium versions. Think Hzrdus Handcrafted (now "Small Batch").

 

Regular versions sell (separately) for about $100-$150. Premium versions sell for $300 and up. "Made for" is a slightly altered "regular" shaft made for a specific company/head.

 

A major manufacturer is not going to sell you a "premium" version shaft with their driver for the same price as a "regular" version shaft. It doesn't make economic sense.

 

Titleist was known for offering "made for" versions of popular regular shafts. Diamana Blueboard leaps to mind.

 

Oddly(?) enough it is now Titleist that is offering the premium Graphite Design shafts in the drivers for "only" a $200 upcharge. A pretty good deal actually as most others will get you an upgraded shaft but charge you full boat for it and give you ZERO credit for the stock shaft they're NOT giving you.

 

So Cally is unlikely to be giving you the premium IM10 ($300 at Golfworks) for the same price as their stock shafts.

 

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/7f37abe9#/7f37abe9/1

 

 

[Warrick]

Are there always 2 versions?

 

I think the MMT from Callaway is same as aftermarket along with the Motore x series in Cobra.

 

I don’t know, am curious 

[jeffrey r]

4 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

There are many shafts made in a "regular" form and a "premium" form. Better(?), more expensive materials and tighter tolerances are generally hallmarks of the premium versions. Think Hzrdus Handcrafted (now "Small Batch").

 

Regular versions sell (separately) for about $100-$150. Premium versions sell for $300 and up. "Made for" is a slightly altered "regular" shaft made for a specific company/head.

 

A major manufacturer is not going to sell you a "premium" version shaft with their driver for the same price as a "regular" version shaft. It doesn't make economic sense.

 

Titleist was known for offering "made for" versions of popular regular shafts. Diamana Blueboard leaps to mind.

 

Oddly(?) enough it is now Titleist that is offering the premium Graphite Design shafts in the drivers for "only" a $200 upcharge. A pretty good deal actually as most others will get you an upgraded shaft but charge you full boat for it and give you ZERO credit for the stock shaft they're NOT giving you.

 

So Cally is unlikely to be giving you the premium IM10 ($300 at Golfworks) for the same price as their stock shafts.

 

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/7f37abe9#/7f37abe9/1

 

 

 

I hear you, and I've been around awhile so I know about the whole "made for" business.  I still have some Titleist shafts around from the D2 days like the Kaili that were "made for" (but still pretty good IMO).  And perhaps Project X is not a great example to base this on, due to their handcrafted, small batch, etc. monikers.  But to contrast, the Rogue White 130 MSI 60 that was stock in the Mavriks, of which I have one reg flex and one stiff flex, is a $300 shaft and I would argue my "stock" shafts are not "made for" and are in fact legit.  I guess YMMV with this. 

[Warrick]

Last off topic on this.....

 

isn’t there also cases where a “made for” is only available through a specific OEM, no aftermarket?

 

T800 and PX LZ 105 from Callaway are 2 that come to mind.

 

sorry, back to the drivers.....

[nsxguy]

4 minutes ago, Warrick said:

Are there always 2 versions?

 

I think the MMT from Callaway is same as aftermarket along with the Motore x series in Cobra.

 

I don’t know, am curious 

 

Haven't studied the subject enough but I don't think so. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few "regular" versions that do not have an upgraded sibling.

 

The are also some shafts that are premium only with no associated regular versions. Graphite Design is pretty big on those.

 

And I'm sure there are siblings where one is named differently from the other even though they're pretty close - as in the Fuji you mentioned.

[noodle3872]

8 minutes ago, Warrick said:

Are there always 2 versions?

 

I think the MMT from Callaway is same as aftermarket along with the Motore x series in Cobra.

 

I don’t know, am curious 

Exact same.

[nsxguy]

1 minute ago, Warrick said:

Last off topic on this.....

 

isn’t there also cases where a “made for” is only available through a specific OEM, no aftermarket?

 

T800 and PX LZ 105 from Callaway are 2 that come to mind.

 

sorry, back to the drivers.....

 

👍

[jeffrey r]

14 minutes ago, Warrick said:

Are there always 2 versions?

 

I think the MMT from Callaway is same as aftermarket along with the Motore x series in Cobra.

 

I don’t know, am curious 

 

Honestly, we are all free to disagree (unless presented with concrete info), but I don't think Callaway is offering watered down versions of most of these shafts.  Taylormade was/is the blatant example of this with their Ventus without Velocore stock offerings in the Sim.  If Callaway is offering a Rogue or a Tensei or MMT or whatever, it should be legit.  Just my .02 cents. 

[third-times-a-charm]

23 minutes ago, Warrick said:

Last off topic on this.....

 

isn’t there also cases where a “made for” is only available through a specific OEM, no aftermarket?

 

T800 and PX LZ 105 from Callaway are 2 that come to mind.

 

sorry, back to the drivers.....

 

No - they are getting smarter now - and this is my response to @jeffrey r as well

 

Recently just in the last 2-3 years or so - shaft OEMs are listing 'made for' shafts on their website to make them look legit and also releasing them to retail since they're already making the QTY for the clubmaker OEM. The biggest example is Callaway and True Temper. They 100% have some sort of relationship going on and the order quantity callaway will be buying is factoring into the equation. 

 

In 2019 it was the Elevate Tour and Elevate 95 iron shafts. Then it was the Riptide shaft in the Mavrik line - oh it just 'happened' to be orange to complement the orange of the Mavrik driver? lol Now it's the Smoke iM10 - which just happens to be green colored just like the Epic Max line. Makes you wonder.

 

In the days of old these 'made for' shafts would never hit the shaft OEMs website, but now they add it as a retail offering. Now I'm not saying AT ALL the shaft is trash or that it's sub-par, I'm saying that it's somewhat of a ruse and there is more behind the scenes then just 'oh hey we're now offering 100% aftermarket shafts that were NOT designed with a new clubhead in mind or without a HUGE contract in mind' when really it does.

 

You also notice the LACK of other OEMs carrying these said shafts. TM nor Titleist offer(ed) the Riptide or now the iM10 shafts on their clubs at all. Sure maybe there's some contract language going on there but...who knows I guess.

[jeffrey r]

25 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

In 2019 it was the Elevate Tour and Elevate 95 iron shafts. Then it was the Riptide shaft in the Mavrik line - oh it just 'happened' to be orange to complement the orange of the Mavrik driver? lol Now it's the Smoke iM10 - which just happens to be green colored just like the Epic Max line. Makes you wonder.

 

In the days of old these 'made for' shafts would never hit the shaft OEMs website, but now they add it as a retail offering. Now I'm not saying AT ALL the shaft is trash or that it's sub-par, I'm saying that it's somewhat of a ruse and there is more behind the scenes then just 'oh hey we're now offering 100% aftermarket shafts that were NOT designed with a new clubhead in mind or without a HUGE contract in mind' when really it does.

 

You also notice the LACK of other OEMs carrying these said shafts. TM nor Titleist offer(ed) the Riptide or now the iM10 shafts on their clubs at all. Sure maybe there's some contract language going on there but...who knows I guess.

 

Good points, and now that makes sense.  End of the day, I find most of these shafts are quality shafts, and while some work better than others, I haven't hit many "dogs" in recent memory.

 

Good discussions here, and that's one of the reasons I love the back and forth here.  Cheers.  Now, just need the damn snow here to melt (as we are getting another few inches at the moment), for the Epics to ship, and get back out on the course.

[SwingBlues]

3 hours ago, Warrick said:

Wow, glad I ordered in mid January 

 

I was one week later than you in the pre-order for a "custom" and was suppose to come in last week but now it's mid March. I don't know why mine was custom, it's just 3/4" shorter on a "stock" shaft and D3 swing weight. Nothing exotic. Sigh.

[third-times-a-charm]

4 minutes ago, SwingBlues said:

 

I was one week later than you in the pre-order for a "custom" and was suppose to come in last week but now it's mid March. I don't know why mine was custom, it's just 3/4" shorter on a "stock" shaft and D3 swing weight. Nothing exotic. Sigh.

 

Again, I dont know if my CS rep knows all his stuff but - he said ordering a 'custom' non-upcharge shaft would ship faster then a 'stock' setup.

 

YMMV I guess

[bcflyguy1]

1 hour ago, SwooshLT said:

 I don't think he has it ; was only sharing information 

 

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

So how does it work for YOU ???

I've had the '21 Epic driver in play in one model or another since mid-December and the results from that test validate what I've been seeing the whole time. I can see the appeal of the Speed head as it does have a smaller footprint at address and a softer sound/feel at impact, but the Max and Max LS are just so impressive in their peformance. They combine the speed and distance that Callaway has had for years with a level of forgiveness and playability that had been lacking particularly from the SubZero type heads. Drivers this long are not supposed to be this easy to use, but both Max heads manage to emphatically be both.

If you buy a driver in '21 without testing both the Epic Max and LS, you've potentially cheated yourself.

[nsxguy]

Just now, bcflyguy1 said:

 

I've had the '21 Epic driver in play in one model or another since mid-December and the results from that test validate what I've been seeing the whole time. I can see the appeal of the Speed head as it does have a smaller footprint at address and a softer sound/feel at impact, but the Max and Max LS are just so impressive in their peformance. They combine the speed and distance that Callaway has had for years with a level of forgiveness and playability that had been lacking particularly from the SubZero type heads. Drivers this long are not supposed to be this easy to use, but both Max heads manage to emphatically be both.

If you buy a driver in '21 without testing both the Epic Max and LS, you've potentially cheated yourself.

 

Well, while I will certainly hit the new drivers, I personally don't see my Epic Flash SZ or EFSZ TD going anywhere,,,,, although once I settle on one of them I expect I'll sell the other.

 

But I guess my overall point was that the magazines "Hot List", while interesting reading, has been mostly made fun of around here.

 

Point being it doesn't matter how forgiving or how long or how,,,,,,,,,,, well, anything it is,,,,,,,,,, for anyone else, it only matters how it works for the individual player.

 

Sure the magazine sells equipment for the club makers and the club makers want to be the "best" but everybody's different. And if someone's serious about their game, as some/many/most (<--- pick one ) are around here, they ain't buying off a "Hot List".

[davo32683]

3 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

 

Apparently shafts, and even some heads, are on backorder for months.

 

I just called Callaway CS and changed my order to a non-upcharge shaft that was showing as in stock rather than backordered. They said '2 weeks ship time' for an in-stock shaft.

 

The Smoke Black, Smoke Black RDX, Mitsubishi MMT, and lots of others are all backordered until April-June timeframe.

I guess the gripe I keep having with them is I've changed my shaft and/or grip a couple times to "in stock" items, only to find out days later it's backordered. Feel like I'm chasing my tail with them now...

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, jeffrey r said:

 

I hear you, and I've been around awhile so I know about the whole "made for" business.  I still have some Titleist shafts around from the D2 days like the Kaili that were "made for" (but still pretty good IMO).  And perhaps Project X is not a great example to base this on, due to their handcrafted, small batch, etc. monikers.  But to contrast, the Rogue White 130 MSI 60 that was stock in the Mavriks, of which I have one reg flex and one stiff flex, is a $300 shaft and I would argue my "stock" shafts are not "made for" and are in fact legit.  I guess YMMV with this. 

 

That shaft is interesting with the 130MSI designation. Certainly not sure about that particular shaft.

 

But I can't see how the economics work. I mean I've never manufactured anything but the concept of cost vs. selling price isn't all that hard to understand.

 

If the public "discovers" that Aldila is selling that shaft for $300 and Cally is selling the driver with a $300 shaft for $529 and also selling the SAME driver with a Hzrdus Yellow (NON-SB), a $100 shaft, for the same $529, don't you think there'd be an outcry of some sort ?

 

Fuji has that wildly popular Ventus shaft. $350(?) at retail. There's all sorts of talk around WRX that TM's is a "made for". The "key" ? The "real deal" has the word "Boron" down by the tip. Otherwise the graphics are identical - but the shafts aren't.

 

But these non-premium versions, for the vast majority of golfers will work very well if they fit you in the first place. It's the "connoisseurs" that have to have the read deal shafts.

[haughdaddy35]

6 hours ago, SwooshLT said:

 

 

 

Ok , tons of questions for my good lefty brethren......

 

Your tee marks tell me you live towards toe.....have you adjusted either to D setting for some help?  

 

What shot shape are playing with Mavrik TD? 

 

Do you find either easier to turn? 

How does the spin numbers compare H2H? 

 

Preference in sound/feel?  

 

TIA, Lawrence 

 

I went back a week and you answered most of these questions! 😆

Haha no worries. I’d love to answer any questions you got. Yes I definitely err towards the toe. Growing up I played a shut faced pull cut and to remedy that I started putting it out towards the toe. Luckily for me this is best spot to miss with on Callaway drivers. My typical shot shape is a little cut. I’m always afraid of a hook, so my miss is not releasing the club head.

The Mavrik TD is definitely easier to move the ball with. Ball speeds are about the same, but the Mavrik has a little more spin. I’m actually excited to get the LS back on the TrackMan. I swapped out the 12g weight for a 17g weight and the on course results are very promising. Launch seems to be much more consistent without adding any spin. I prefer the sound of the Mavrik, but it is tour issued and has hot melt in it. I might put some hot melt in the LS but I wouldn’t say it sounds bad. Just different. I think that covers it. If not, just ask. 

[ShAMbotay]

I know that there are going to be a few tour issue epic speed TD's, but what about tour issue epic max LS? I see on Callaway's site that only 9 and 10.5 models are available, but there seems to be an 8.5 model on the conforming list. does anybody have info on that? even who on tour is playing the maxLS.

[double or triple?]

6 hours ago, jeffrey r said:

 

Wild on the MMT 60.  Guess I'll see.

 

Curious why you think the IM10 is "made for".  In recent years, whether Rogue White, or Smoke Black, or Evenflow Riptide, or Tensei, etc., I don't recall any of them being "made for".  The IM 10 shafts I demo'd did not seem to be any different from the OEM.

 

PX lists two options for Smoke IM10 - mid launch and low launch. Callaway only offers the mid launch in line currently.

 

Also it's been said that TM didn't offer riptide while that is just incorrect as Riptide CB was offered no charge option from the initial launch date.

[jeffrey r]

18 minutes ago, double or triple? said:

 

PX lists two options for Smoke IM10 - mid launch and low launch. Callaway only offers the mid launch in line currently.

 

 

Gotcha.  I was not paying attention to that when I demo'd the IM10 50 and 60 with the Epics, but I figured it was the mid launch when I later checked the PX website.   That is fine with me.

[MillerTime859]

Is there any info out there on the MMT shaft?  I can only find iron shaft info.

[Rogtsaamokin66]

5 minutes ago, MillerTime859 said:

Is there any info out there on the MMT shaft?  I can only find iron shaft info.

https://www.mca-golf.com/products/mmt™-woods

[tigercolt77]

10 hours ago, jeffrey r said:

 

Honestly, we are all free to disagree (unless presented with concrete info), but I don't think Callaway is offering watered down versions of most of these shafts.  Taylormade was/is the blatant example of this with their Ventus without Velocore stock offerings in the Sim.  If Callaway is offering a Rogue or a Tensei or MMT or whatever, it should be legit.  Just my .02 cents. 

I'm pretty sure the Rogue 130 white is legit.

[noodle3872]

39 minutes ago, tigercolt77 said:

I'm pretty sure the Rogue 130 white is legit.

100% legit.