2021 Callaway Epic Speed, Epic Max, Epic LS drivers (in-hand photos)

[third-times-a-charm]

15 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

So it the LS like a more forgiving EF SZ?

Sort of. The Max LS is more like a slightly-less forgiving and lower spinning Max model, though.

 

Callaway pretty much removed the SZ model and now the Speed is the closest thing to it. I would say the Speed is closer to the SZ than the Max LS is.

 

Though the Max LS is pretty much 95% the same as the Triple Diamond drivers - it just goes to show you how far removed the SZ was from what the pros actually played.

[third-times-a-charm]

So after my response above, I got bored and made this chart.

 

Self explanatory - I think - but the colored fading lines show commonality between heads and how much. 

 

[Rbsiedsc]

27 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

So after my response above, I got bored and made this chart.

 

Self explanatory - I think - but the colored fading lines show commonality between heads and how much. 

 

so then is it possible to make the SZs (especially the EF) more forgiving by placing more weight low and back?

[jds101086]

1 hour ago, Rbsiedsc said:

so then is it possible to make the SZs (especially the EF) more forgiving by placing more weight low and back?

Essentially yes.

[dmeeksDC]

I’d recommend testing them. I had less spin with the Max LS than the Speed. Not a lot less, but definitely lower. Have seen a few reviewers also spin the Max LS the least. The PGA Tour pros are playing a front-weighted version of the Speed, like a Subzero head, not the head we can buy. This staff pro at Second Swing also got lowest spin with the Max LS. It is what Callaway says it is — a forgiving driver that offers spin control  

 

[GolfTurkey]

20 hours ago, jds101086 said:

Let's look at another sites data:

Max LS- 

1st - Strokes Gained

1st - Distance

6th - Forgiveness

 

I'm curious as to what kind of golfers/swings they had testing those clubs. E.g. the Max LS had an average ball speed of 138.57 mph with 2,349 RPM spin. This was with a 9 degree head (9.2 measured loft).

 

This applies to all the other drivers in the test too; are these guys basically wiping drivers out of the low heel to get those spin rates with those ball speeds? I know I'm low spin with driver but I struggle to get that spin with a 12 degree Sim Max and low 160s ball speed, I wouldn't sniff 2K with a 9 degree low spin model.

 

Another example was Rick Shiels who spun the Max LS at 1,874 RPM with 158.3 ball speed.

[third-times-a-charm]

47 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I'm curious as to what kind of golfers/swings they had testing those clubs. E.g. the Max LS had an average ball speed of 138.57 mph with 2,349 RPM spin. This was with a 9 degree head (9.2 measured loft).

 

This applies to all the other drivers in the test too; are these guys basically wiping drivers out of the low heel to get those spin rates with those ball speeds? I know I'm low spin with driver but I struggle to get that spin with a 12 degree Sim Max and low 160s ball speed, I wouldn't sniff 2K with a 9 degree low spin model.

 

Another example was Rick Shiels who spun the Max LS at 1,874 RPM with 158.3 ball speed.

 

All depends on the payer tbh - as some have said above.

 

Several YT reviewers have had the Max LS spin MORE than the Max - not less. I believe Newton was one of them?

[noodle3872]

49 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I'm curious as to what kind of golfers/swings they had testing those clubs. E.g. the Max LS had an average ball speed of 138.57 mph with 2,349 RPM spin. This was with a 9 degree head (9.2 measured loft).

 

This applies to all the other drivers in the test too; are these guys basically wiping drivers out of the low heel to get those spin rates with those ball speeds? I know I'm low spin with driver but I struggle to get that spin with a 12 degree Sim Max and low 160s ball speed, I wouldn't sniff 2K with a 9 degree low spin model.

 

Another example was Rick Shiels who spun the Max LS at 1,874 RPM with 158.3 ball speed.

I haven’t look at the charts since the day the test was released but I think if you look at the dispersion chart for LS you will see many of the dots trend to the right of the grid. And we all know a fade will spin a bit more than a straight ball and a draw. I believe this also accounts for the lower ball speed reading. 

[sociojeje]

For those who tried the stock MMT driver shaft, how does it feel compared to other Callaway stock shafts, such as riptide, rogue, smoke black, and others? 

[jds101086]

1 hour ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I'm curious as to what kind of golfers/swings they had testing those clubs. E.g. the Max LS had an average ball speed of 138.57 mph with 2,349 RPM spin. This was with a 9 degree head (9.2 measured loft).

 

This applies to all the other drivers in the test too; are these guys basically wiping drivers out of the low heel to get those spin rates with those ball speeds? I know I'm low spin with driver but I struggle to get that spin with a 12 degree Sim Max and low 160s ball speed, I wouldn't sniff 2K with a 9 degree low spin model.

 

Another example was Rick Shiels who spun the Max LS at 1,874 RPM with 158.3 ball speed.

Absolutely true. It'll be a more interesting read when the breakdowns by swing speed get released. 

[GolfTurkey]

42 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

 

All depends on the payer tbh - as some have said above.

 

Several YT reviewers have had the Max LS spin MORE than the Max - not less. I believe Newton was one of them?

 

Newton was 2569 with LS (160.8 BS) and 2840 with Max, probably having one of his bad days where he hits it low in the head (9.7 launch with LS).

 

TXG Matt was 2,246 RPM with 171.3 BS. Point being that much higher BS /SS  players were lower spin with much more speed.

 

Let's assume a Trackman smash of 1.47 for the test; that puts the avg swing speed at about 94 mph. The only way I can see someone with a swing speed like that fitting into a 9 degree low spin head is if they're wiping it out the low heel and/or they have a huge flip that adds a ton of dynamic loft. If they were leaning the shaft with center contact it would barely get airborne. I know that kind of swing is similar to a lot of players' swings (sounds like the stereotypical high handicap OTT swing) but also very different to many others.

Edited March 4, 2021 by GolfTurkey

[third-times-a-charm]

1 minute ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

Newton was 2569 with LS (160.8 BS) and 2840 with Max, probably having one of his bad days where he hits it low in the head (9.7 launch with LS).

 

TXG Matt was 2,246 RPM with 171.3 BS. Point being that much higher BS /SS  players were lower spin with much more speed.

 

Let's assume a Trackman smash of 1.47 for the test; that puts the avg swing speed at about 94 mph. The only way I can see someone with a swing speed like that fitting into a 9 degree head is if they're wiping it out the low heel and/or they have a huge flip that adds a ton of dynamic loft. If they were leaning the shaft with center contact it would barely get airborne. I know that kind of swing is similar to a lot of players' swings (sounds like the stereotypical mid/high OTT swing) but also very different to many others.

 

I dont disagree with your assumption(s).

 

Hence why I went with the Max LS 10.5.  I didnt want the low spin of a 9 deg head right off the bat...I can always turn it down if need be and have an open face which is nice for me since I can get flippy/loose and hook it.

 

IMO the 10.5 Max LS head has similar spin to the Max 9 head. All being equal they're only 200-300RPM apart which is about ~1 deg of loft.

[me05501]

A friend of mine got fitted by his pro yesterday into an Epic Speed with MMT stiff. Should be interesting to see the results for him. He has been playing an SLDR forever. His best drives were great with it but misses were awful. 

[me05501]

16 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

So after my response above, I got bored and made this chart.

 

Self explanatory - I think - but the colored fading lines show commonality between heads and how much. 

 

 

 

Love this, thanks. I wonder where my Rogue SZ would fall? I'm guessing the Mavrik SZ would be most similar. Honestly I find it plenty forgiving which surprised me when I tried it out. 

[third-times-a-charm]

13 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

 

Love this, thanks. I wonder where my Rogue SZ would fall? I'm guessing the Mavrik SZ would be most similar. Honestly I find it plenty forgiving which surprised me when I tried it out. 

 

The Rogue SZ is actually a slightly more forgiving SZ model (relatively speaking) with a more elongated shape than the Mav SZ pulling the CG further back. I think they chased a more traditional shape and even less spin on the subsequent models from the Rogue SZ.

 

You can see here: 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by third-times-a-charm

[me05501]

8 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

 

The Rogue SZ is actually a slightly more forgiving SZ model (relatively speaking) with a more elongated shape than the Mav SZ pulling the CG further back. I think they chased a more traditional shape and even less spin on the subsequent models from the Rogue SZ.

 

You can see here: 

 

 

That makes sense.

 

I owned a Rogue Draw 9* alongside my Rogue SZ 10.5* and I didn't find the Rogue Draw to be any more forgiving. In the end the shaft/head combo for the Rogue SZ has been more reliable for me. I feel like I hit the sweet spot far more often than with any other driver I've tried. I guess it suits my eye. 

 

During my last lesson I was still generating about 2900 rpms of spin with the Rogue SZ. As my swing speed increases I will eventually need to get that down, but at 90mph I think it is probably helping keep the ball in the air longer. 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by me05501

[jeffrey r]

10 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

Newton was 2569 with LS (160.8 BS) and 2840 with Max, probably having one of his bad days where he hits it low in the head (9.7 launch with LS).

 

TXG Matt was 2,246 RPM with 171.3 BS. Point being that much higher BS /SS  players were lower spin with much more speed.

 

Let's assume a Trackman smash of 1.47 for the test; that puts the avg swing speed at about 94 mph. The only way I can see someone with a swing speed like that fitting into a 9 degree low spin head is if they're wiping it out the low heel and/or they have a huge flip that adds a ton of dynamic loft. If they were leaning the shaft with center contact it would barely get airborne. I know that kind of swing is similar to a lot of players' swings (sounds like the stereotypical high handicap OTT swing) but also very different to many others.

 

I'm no expert on the technical aspects, but I am low-mid 90s swing speed and went with a 9* Max LS.  Also went with a 9* Max, which is more likely to go into my bag I would think, but that will come with testing outside. 

 

Anyway, the reason I went with the 9* Max LS was fully expecting to play it at +1, minimum.   Heck, maybe +2 is warranted.  As soon as I bump up my 9* +1, and you turn down your 10.5* -1, I have more loft... [that there is math... :)]  I also generally favor mid-launch mid-low spin shafts like the Rogue White, Tensei AV Blue, etc., so I wouldn't necessarily expect to play a low launch low spin shaft with my 9* Max LS. 

 

But if this snow ever melts, I will be able to get out on the course, and see what the Epic Max and Max LS do out on the course.   I will have no problem reporting back if the 9* Max LS is not ideal.  But boy, do I love hitting the Max head, and can't wait to get it outside.  YMMV.

[third-times-a-charm]

1 hour ago, jeffrey r said:

 

I'm no expert on the technical aspects, but I am low-mid 90s swing speed and went with a 9* Max LS.  Also went with a 9* Max, which is more likely to go into my bag I would think, but that will come with testing outside. 

 

Anyway, the reason I went with the 9* Max LS was fully expecting to play it at +1, minimum.   Heck, maybe +2 is warranted.  As soon as I bump up my 9* +1, and you turn down your 10.5* -1, I have more loft... [that there is math... :)]  I also generally favor mid-launch mid-low spin shafts like the Rogue White, Tensei AV Blue, etc., so I wouldn't necessarily expect to play a low launch low spin shaft with my 9* Max LS. 

 

But if this snow ever melts, I will be able to get out on the course, and see what the Epic Max and Max LS do out on the course.   I will have no problem reporting back if the 9* Max LS is not ideal.  But boy, do I love hitting the Max head, and can't wait to get it outside.  YMMV.

 

I still havent hit my Max LS 10.5, but I'll be using the Callaway 30 day guarantee to switch it for a Max 9 if it doesnt work out, for sure.

[Warrick]

Damn, am I the only one who bought the Speed?

[jeffrey r]

32 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

 

I still havent hit my Max LS 10.5, but I'll be using the Callaway 30 day guarantee to switch it for a Max 9 if it doesnt work out, for sure.

 

I hear you.  And I would do the same in the other direction if necessary, but I suspect my 30 days will pass before I can really get out on the course in earnest.  We're getting there with the snow melting, but boy is it going tortuously slow...  But I also felt that with the Max LS, I would benefit more by turning a 9* up, than by turning a 10.5* down and making the face more open.  YMMV with that nuance.

 

As to Warrick's post about the Speed, I felt that the Max and Max LS were more forgiving (especially the Max, no question).  The Speed just didn't wow me.  Doesn't mean it's not a great head in the right hands, but the Max and Max LS just looked and felt more comfortable to me when demoing.  YMMV.

[golfschnell]

For those that have ordered their Epic drivers, when i order mine I want playing length at 45 inches, Callway changed their measuring method last year, so how much do I need to request the length reduced to have actual playing length of 45"? Also any feed back on the IO 50 gram stiff shaft would be appreciated, my ss is 96-101. Looking to order Epic Max.

[norcaltrojan]

Following up on my previous "noise" complaint for the Max LS. It appears that I've hit the "ting" sound out of the head. The driver now sounds much more subdued and a good combo of metal and carbon crunch.

 

On the performance side I have to say that this is the best Callaway driver I've ever hit. Combined with the Ventus Black 7X from the fitting cart the driver is a weapon and much more stable across the face. I was shocked that even on mis-hits within ~1/2in of center the ball still gets out there with minimal loss of distance. I also really enjoyed how I could flight it down when playing in the wind. I'm waiting on the TSi3 demo to come back but so far this is the leader to me for 2021 launches.  

Edited March 5, 2021 by norcaltrojan
Wrong club name

[jeffrey r]

16 minutes ago, norcaltrojan said:

Following up on my previous "noise" complaint for the Speed LS. It appears that I've hit the "ting" sound out of the head. The driver now sounds much more subdued and a good combo of metal and carbon crunch.

 

On the performance side I have to say that this is the best Callaway driver I've ever hit. Combined with the Ventus Black 7X from the fitting cart the driver is a weapon and much more stable across the face. I was shocked that even on mis-hits within ~1/2in of center the ball still gets out there with minimal loss of distance. I also really enjoyed how I could flight it down when playing in the wind. I'm waiting on the TSi3 demo to come back but so far this is the leader to me for 2021 launches.  

 

Nice, but there is no Speed LS.  Do you have the Speed, or the Max LS?

[SCOTT4099]

1 hour ago, third-times-a-charm said:

 

I still havent hit my Max LS 10.5, but I'll be using the Callaway 30 day guarantee to switch it for a Max 9 if it doesnt work out, for sure.

I was not aware of the 30 day guarantee. Where can I find that info? Is it from Callaway directly or the shop you bought It from?

 

 

thanks

[jeffrey r]

57 minutes ago, SCOTT4099 said:

I was not aware of the 30 day guarantee. Where can I find that info? Is it from Callaway directly or the shop you bought It from?

 

 

thanks

 

Callaway directly if you buy from Callaway.   Not sure if you buy through a shop.

 

Callaway will give you full store credit back (assuming you have played it, otherwise full refund), and if you buy a new club at the same time that you make the return, they'll generally just issue you a full refund to your original payment method when they receive your club back. That is, you buy a $500 10.5* Epic Max LS initially, call up to set up a return for that one and order a new $500 9* Epic Max LS, instead of doing store credit, they'll charge you full price on the new driver, and when they receive the original driver, they'll issue you a full refund.

 

The basic return policy is right on their website, which I just found for you...

 

https://www.callawaygolf.com/customer-service?fid=orders&cid=help-return-policy

Edited March 4, 2021 by jeffrey r

[SCOTT4099]

1 hour ago, jeffrey r said:

 

Callaway directly if you buy from Callaway.   Not sure if you buy through a shop.

 

Callaway will give you full store credit back (assuming you have played it, otherwise full refund), and if you buy a new club at the same time that you make the return, they'll generally just issue you a full refund to your original payment method when they receive your club back. That is, you buy a $500 10.5* Epic Max LS initially, call up to set up a return for that one and order a new $500 9* Epic Max LS, instead of doing store credit, they'll charge you full price on the new driver, and when they receive the original driver, they'll issue you a full refund.

 

The basic return policy is right on their website, which I just found for you...

 

https://www.callawaygolf.com/customer-service?fid=orders&cid=help-return-policy

Thanks for the info

[jeffrey r]

14 minutes ago, SCOTT4099 said:

Thanks for the info

 

Sure thing.  It's a great policy, and frankly, it is what keeps CPO well stocked.  You can buy a $1200 iron set, hate the heads, or hate the shafts, or hate both, and get the full credit back to apply to a different set (or other clubs of course).  And then, immediately, or some time later, you'll see your iron set up on CPO for sale... 

Edited March 4, 2021 by jeffrey r

[rxk9fan]

I got another day on the range with my friends Epic Max 10.5 with everyones least favorite stock shaft...the Recoil 450.  Absolutely the best results with any driver I have hit in the last 3 years.  I did not want to like that shaft, but I could not stand to order something else with the results I have had with it on the range.  Averaged at least 15 yards more carry than my Sim Max, and much better dispersion.  Our local college coach was on the range and as I was walking off he stopped me to say, "you would probably enjoy golf a lot more if you didn't hit every shot straight down the middle.  I was watching those".  I guess this is pre-honeymoon I love everything about you period.  But I have one on the way and am getting the 150% trade in value for my Sim.  

 

[SwooshLT]

9 hours ago, Warrick said:

Damn, am I the only one who bought the Speed?

I'm trying one....

[norcaltrojan]

8 hours ago, jeffrey r said:

 

Nice, but there is no Speed LS.  Do you have the Speed, or the Max LS?

Correct. Max LS