Spectators not allowed at Jr Touneys?

[Live2fight]

   Maybe the tour director doesn’t want to get bombarded with emails  from complaining parents (spectators) on Mondays about kids cheating. I’m thinking of the thread from Jan 19 “Rules that ever kids needs to know and watch out for,” where some parents seemed to be worried more about what other kids are or aren’t doing than their own kids. 
    We just started tournaments and some allow spectators and others don’t. But the ones that had spectators,  I have seen so much advice given to their kids.  We also have a 20 yd distance to player policy which isn’t the remotely enforced.
   Some of the events with no spectators, you will find a handful of parents driving around the course  trying to see their kids. I know this because I was one of those parents sneaking a peak through the trees with my rangefinder for his first events. 

[DannysDad]

I guess the other thought I have is this, why is golf the only sport I’ve ever heard of this happening?

 

God know the scenes that have unfolded at Little League fields, ice hockey rinks (a guy beat another father to death a few years ago near us) and football games.

 

My local high school hires 12 cops on detail for high school football games and a handful, maybe 4 for basketball games.

 

But junior golf is so cut-throat that parents are banned. 😁

 

I’m sorry, but it really does make me chuckle.

[ncalgolf]

12 minutes ago, DannysDad said:

I guess the other thought I have is this, why is golf the only sport I’ve ever heard of this happening?

 

God know the scenes that have unfolded at Little League fields, ice hockey rinks (a guy beat another father to death a few years ago near us) and football games.

 

My local high school hires 12 cops on detail for high school football games and a handful, maybe 4 for basketball games.

 

But junior golf is so cut-throat that parents are banned. 😁

 

I’m sorry, but it really does make me chuckle.

Now this is what GOLFWRX is all about - its been pretty quiet the last few weeks ---

 

Here are a few comments from me:

 

-I like sporting events where I of fear for my safety - ever go to a Raiders game in Oakland cheering for the other team 

 

-i like watching my kids play all sports it would suck if i couldn't watch - i just like watching sports

 

-Here is my one experience when a parent bailed on their kid.  It was a junior tour kids kids were 8 and  a mom decided to bail on her kid and let her play by herself.  Let me tell you i had to caddy for that kid cause she couldn't push her golf cart up the slight hills - i had to tee her ball because the ground was like a rock - the kid got a bloody nose and i had to help her with that - the kid ended up crying cause her mom left and i had to console her.  It was a damn mess and as the only adult anywhere all of a sudden i was responsible for this kid.  Im happy to make sure my kid stays in line but not looking to do it for anyone else.  After i had a talk with the mom and said you shouldn't leave your kid she needed a lot of help.  The mom basically looked at me and said F off 

[ncalgolf]

6 hours ago, Abh159 said:

When I was 8 my dad dropped me off in the Alaskan wilderness with nothing but a butter knife and said "bring me the carcass of a grizzly or don't bother coming home". @leezer99 it sounds like you and him would have been best friends.

 

your lucky your dad gave you a butter knife - "When I was 8 my dad dropped me off in the Alaskan wilderness naked and said "bring me the carcass of a grizzly or don't bother coming home".

[Movingday]

3 hours ago, leezer99 said:

I’ll concede that under 10 there should be a chaperone nearby to ensure safety but it shouldn’t be a parent of a kid in the group.  I did this on a local tour during early covid... I’d be out there watching a group of 9-11 year olds while my kid was out playing in the same event sometimes two or three hours before I would head out with the other kids. If I knew the kids parents I’d send them text updates or catch them up at the turn. You’ve never seen the camaraderie a group of boys can create in 18 holes without their parents around.  If you’re there then the kids are focused on pleasing you. 

Just curious, are you saying that parents should never watch their kids? It’s hard to tell if you are trolling or being honest (mark of a great troll by the way: congrats if that’s the case). I can get there being some benefit to kids playing without parents around, but there is also a great emotional benefit for kids to have their parents at their events. I’m a high school coach, I’ve seen all kinds of craziness through the years. I can tell you though, in my experience, kids want their parents there to watch them. Most would prefer they watch silently, but they want them there.   Honestly I would say I’m usually at least a half a hole ahead of the group, watch them putt near the green, then immediately walk way down the next hole.  My son knows I’m there to support him, I get to enjoy watching him play, and he is on his own all at the same time. Anyway, too each his own. 

[Movingday]

Oh and we have a no “looking at dad rule”. Don’t look at me when you do something well and don’t look at me when that 3 footer lips out. We can talk about all of the good tonight and the bad at some time in the future. The only thing I ever get “on to him about” after a round, is a poor attitude. If he acts like an a** that gets addressed immediately. everything else is on his timetable. 

[leezer99]

3 minutes ago, Movingday said:

Just curious, are you saying that parents should never watch their kids? It’s hard to tell if you are trolling or being honest (mark of a great troll by the way: congrats if that’s the case). I can get there being some benefit to kids playing without parents around, but there is also a great emotional benefit for kids to have their parents at their events. I’m a high school coach, I’ve seen all kinds of craziness through the years. I can tell you though, in my experience, kids want their parents there to watch them. Most would prefer they watch silently, but they want them there.   Honestly I would say I’m usually at least a half a hole ahead of the group, watch them putt near the green, then immediately walk way down the next hole.  My son knows I’m there to support him, I get to enjoy watching him play, and he is on his own all at the same time. Anyway, too each his own. 

 

The problem with spectating in golf versus baseball, basketball or football is that you are essentially on the field with them.  Coaching baseball it always cracked me up when parents thought that Jimmy could hear them in the outfield to shift in or out.  They can't hear crap out there... that's why we use hand signals for those guys.  So back to golf, when you're on the field with them there is that support you are giving them when in reality you shouldn't be.  Those kids need to learn to deal with their issues on their own.  Giving your kid a pep talk because he flubbed a chip isn't going to build any mental toughness.  Then if we harken back to the cheating thread there are parents that will *magically* find OB balls in play, send text messages to their kids, etc.  Golf is a very solitary sport and by being present, regardless of where you are on the course, you are creating a mental cushion for them to fall back on.  

 

I like to watch my kid as much as anyone else on here but watching him compete doesn't help.  I'd rather him come back and tell me at the end of the round what the problems were.  

[Movingday]

7 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

The problem with spectating in golf versus baseball, basketball or football is that you are essentially on the field with them.  Coaching baseball it always cracked me up when parents thought that Jimmy could hear them in the outfield to shift in or out.  They can't hear crap out there... that's why we use hand signals for those guys.  So back to golf, when you're on the field with them there is that support you are giving them when in reality you shouldn't be.  Those kids need to learn to deal with their issues on their own.  Giving your kid a pep talk because he flubbed a chip isn't going to build any mental toughness.  Then if we harken back to the cheating thread there are parents that will *magically* find OB balls in play, send text messages to their kids, etc.  Golf is a very solitary sport and by being present, regardless of where you are on the course, you are creating a mental cushion for them to fall back on.  

 

I like to watch my kid as much as anyone else on here but watching him compete doesn't help.  I'd rather him come back and tell me at the end of the round what the problems were.  

So, you think me not speaking to my child, not ever making eye contact with him, never placing myself in the round at all, creates a mental cushion for him to fall back on? Interesting. Man one of the great joys of parenting (for me) is watching my children have fun. My kids don’t play sports so that I can enjoy watching, but damn if I don’t get joy from it. Just like I get joy from watching them play in the waves at the beach or beat the hell out of each other in a game of backyard football. There’s a big difference between enjoying watching your kids compete and living through your kids competition. 

[DannysDad]

25 minutes ago, Movingday said:

So, you think me not speaking to my child, not ever making eye contact with him, never placing myself in the round at all, creates a mental cushion for him to fall back on? Interesting. Man one of the great joys of parenting (for me) is watching my children have fun. My kids don’t play sports so that I can enjoy watching, but damn if I don’t get joy from it. Just like I get joy from watching them play in the waves at the beach or beat the hell out of each other in a game of backyard football. There’s a big difference between enjoying watching your kids compete and living through your kids competition. 

You get joy from your children’s endeavors? Some might say you’re misguided, at least that’s what I’ve read somewhere...

 

Again, I chuckle. I was a runner in high school, XC and track, and while my Dad wasn’t ever at my events, my mother was always there.
 

The very idea that because she was present she was some kind of mental crutch or that her being present effected my races is absolutely laughable.
 

I literally never saw her or thought of her once until the race was over. But I knew she was there somewhere, with the other parents, living vicariously through their kids and sucking the independence out of our souls. 😁

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by DannysDad

[RmoorePE]

Personally I like to watch my kids play anything, but we are a family of sports nuts. It brings me great joy to watch them out there. 

 

If there was a tournament that did not allow spectators simply just ask your kid, "Do you want to try it without me there?" and if so enter them. I am surprised that any tournament would outlaw parents, but I have not been around cheating or complaining golf parents yet.

 

I drop my daughter off at the golf course alone all the time. She has a little emergency beacon on her bag as well as a cell phone. I'll never forget the first time my wife and I stopped to pick her up one afternoon and she was coming in off of 18 with a foursome of old guys. You know the guys who have golf carts that look like old cars, wear funny hats and pants, and play every day. Here is a 12 year old pushing her cart among them. My wife was like "Were you playing with those men?" Daughter was "Ya, I play with those guys all the time." We didn't know anything about it, but apparently they just invite her along anytime that she is at the course and they have a good time. That is the beauty of the game. Old and young, strangers at the start of a round but friends by the end.

 

So to that end I tend to think that kids together away from parents can be good. Let the kids care about the score.

[Movingday]

7 minutes ago, RmoorePE said:

Personally I like to watch my kids play anything, but we are a family of sports nuts. It brings me great joy to watch them out there. 

 

If there was a tournament that did not allow spectators simply just ask your kid, "Do you want to try it without me there?" and if so enter them. I am surprised that any tournament would outlaw parents, but I have not been around cheating or complaining golf parents yet.

 

I drop my daughter off at the golf course alone all the time. She has a little emergency beacon on her bag as well as a cell phone. I'll never forget the first time my wife and I stopped to pick her up one afternoon and she was coming in off of 18 with a foursome of old guys. You know the guys who have golf carts that look like old cars, wear funny hats and pants, and play every day. Here is a 12 year old pushing her cart among them. My wife was like "Were you playing with those men?" Daughter was "Ya, I play with those guys all the time." We didn't know anything about it, but apparently they just invite her along anytime that she is at the course and they have a good time. That is the beauty of the game. Old and young, strangers at the start of a round but friends by the end.

 

So to that end I tend to think that kids together away from parents can be good. Let the kids care about the score.

I’m interested in the emergency beacon you have on her bag? Does it require cell service? Our children do not have cell phones yet, so something for emergencies would be amazing 

 

[heavy_hitter]

15 hours ago, Movingday said:

I’m interested in the emergency beacon you have on her bag? Does it require cell service? Our children do not have cell phones yet, so something for emergencies would be amazing 

 

[Movingday]

17 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

😂 That may be tough to clip on the bag

Edited March 18, 2021 by Movingday

[Noles]

It's not an issue for me now as my son is 17 but with the number of choices of junior tours these days, I would not have my son participate in a tour that didn't allow parents on the premises.  There is no legitimate justification for it in my mind and it is a red flag for me.  

[RmoorePE]

17 hours ago, Movingday said:

I’m interested in the emergency beacon you have on her bag? Does it require cell service? Our children do not have cell phones yet, so something for emergencies would be amazing 

 

 

Beacon would be the wrong term. I guess more like a car alarm or rape whistle. We tested it out from the far corner of our local golf course and the thing is annoyingly loud. We have 3 daughters and my wife is always handing these out to them and their friends. "Stranger Danger" and all that.

 

There are back country GPS beacons for less than $200 if you hunt around.

 

https://www.amazon.com/KOSIN-Personal-Security-Keychain-Emergency/dp/B07GRWNQ4M/ref=sr_1_24?dchild=1&keywords=noise+maker+beacon&qid=1616083247&sr=8-24

[Movingday]

29 minutes ago, RmoorePE said:

 

Beacon would be the wrong term. I guess more like a car alarm or rape whistle. We tested it out from the far corner of our local golf course and the thing is annoyingly loud. We have 3 daughters and my wife is always handing these out to them and their friends. "Stranger Danger" and all that.

 

There are back country GPS beacons for less than $200 if you hunt around.

 

https://www.amazon.com/KOSIN-Personal-Security-Keychain-Emergency/dp/B07GRWNQ4M/ref=sr_1_24?dchild=1&keywords=noise+maker+beacon&qid=1616083247&sr=8-24

Thanks

[kekoa]

Its funny.  My son wants to only play tournaments that have no spectator policy in place, but I only sign him up for one's where I can come watch 😁

[Medson]

For those tournaments that do not allow spectators, does the player track detailed stats, e.g. fairway hits, GIR, scramble, etc? That's a lot of stuff to remember on top of hitting good golf shots. 

 

 

[wildcatden]

9 minutes ago, Medson said:

For those tournaments that do not allow spectators, does the player track detailed stats, e.g. fairway hits, GIR, scramble, etc? That's a lot of stuff to remember on top of hitting good golf shots. 

 

 

 

Probably age dependent. So often in these junior forums, we forget to include the age (and sometimes height and weight when talking equipment) of the junior when we are applying our comment(s). 

 

As far as tracking stats, the spectrum is probably pretty obvious with "older" juniors (let's say starting at 12-13) tracking those stats. A serious junior golfer age 14-18 is even more likely tracking the stats. At the young ages (let's say 11 and under), the likelihood is pretty low. As always, there are exceptions so if your 7 year old is tracking their FIR/GIR/Putts then cheers to you!!!

[heavy_hitter]

38 minutes ago, Medson said:

For those tournaments that do not allow spectators, does the player track detailed stats, e.g. fairway hits, GIR, scramble, etc? That's a lot of stuff to remember on top of hitting good golf shots. 

 

 

Tracking the round during the round is no bueno imo.  Need to go back after the round and figure it out.

[Medson]

6 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Tracking the round during the round is no bueno imo.  Need to go back after the round and figure it out.

Oh yeah. These are a really good golfers, and they can certainly do that. 

 

Trying to remember the strokes after a round never works out for me. Let's just say it is a tall order to remember all those strokes in a triple-quad-triple stretch. 

[heavy_hitter]

3 minutes ago, Medson said:

Oh yeah. These are a really good golfers, and they can certainly do that. 

 

Trying to remember the strokes after a round never works out for me. Let's just say it is a tall order to remember all those strokes in a triple-quad-triple stretch. 

 

I track rounds when I watch, but I never say in the car "Do you know how many putts you had?"  Not a good thing for their psyche.  The most important thing is to just come out of the round with an idea of what needs to be worked on.  FIR is a useless stat for the most part.  Figure out the greens, proximity to hole, number of putts and that tells the story of what they need to work on.

 

Not to hijack the thread and I don't think we are.  I am certain this kind of stuff is why tours decide to not allow spectators.  The kids stuck staring at a windshield when their parents were grilling them on having 40 putts.  The kid didn't mean to putt bad.  I think it should be a parental choice on whether the parent should be there or not.  I don't need the tour to tell me to stay home just like I don't need the government telling me to put on my seat belt.  Parents can make their own decisions on what is best for their kids.

[leezer99]

13 minutes ago, Medson said:

Oh yeah. These are a really good golfers, and they can certainly do that. 

 

Trying to remember the strokes after a round never works out for me. Let's just say it is a tall order to remember all those strokes in a triple-quad-triple stretch. 

Have them put a dot in their yardage book where they hit the shot from during the round. They should be pulling it out anyway. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 3/17/2021 at 5:37 PM, Movingday said:

So, you think me not speaking to my child, not ever making eye contact with him, never placing myself in the round at all, creates a mental cushion for him to fall back on? Interesting. Man one of the great joys of parenting (for me) is watching my children have fun. My kids don’t play sports so that I can enjoy watching, but damn if I don’t get joy from it. Just like I get joy from watching them play in the waves at the beach or beat the hell out of each other in a game of backyard football. There’s a big difference between enjoying watching your kids compete and living through your kids competition. 

Is it ok that I scream at my kid's ball? "Get in the hole!!!!!!!"  The other parents look at me funny...

[farmer]

Probably the best thing for a parent at a kids tourney is to follow the old caddie rule, "show up, keep up, shut up".  Living in Texas, the most insane sport state, I have seen parents try to fight T-ball coaches, parents try to come out of the stands at football games, one of my cousins was banned from school grounds during basketball season, just awful things.  Parents spectating golf is one thing, parents getting involved is another.  HH has the right approach, the kid knows he 3 putted 14, no need to rag him.

[tatertot]

On 3/16/2021 at 2:51 PM, mrshinsa said:

I've experienced this once in 5 years of my sons competitive golf.  I can kinda see why such policy is in place.  

This past weekend, one of the parent threatened to call the cops on another parent.    🙄

 

 

 

Youth athletics ... the kids are great - the parents the worst.

[DannysDad]

1 minute ago, tatertot said:

Youth athletics ... the kids are great - the parents the worst.

My son’s tournament experiences have all been through USKG and almost all events have been fantastic. I’m still at the age where a parent is required to caddy.

 

Those rounds that haven’t been positive were of course a result of parent caddies who think it’s Sunday at Augusta. A couple who have over-coached, directing every move the kid makes, every club the kid uses, pick the line on every putt and critique endlessly. The round stalls to an absolute crawl on those days.

Thankfully, that’s the exception. Mostly there is a core group of parents whose kids play together on a regular basis and the parents are all on the same page, let them have fun, learn, and rise or fall on their own. I ask my son after the round, did you try your best? And did you have fun? That’s how I measure a good day.

I believe this will be the last year he will have a caddy and will be on his own after that. Good stuff to look forward to!

[ZAP]

Only thing a parent should say to their kid after watch is "I sure do love watching you play".   Then if a kid asks about anything they can offer the answer to that question and preface it with "what do you think?" and then listen before answering.

 

Kids have so little free play time without supervision these days it is silly.   I know we joke about our parents dropping us off in the wilderness but I can remember going to the local park and there were 30 kids there and zero parents.  We would play every sport you can imagine in any weather you can imagine.   Solved our own problems.  Kicked out any @holes and made up our own modified rules and teams.

[tatertot]

5 hours ago, DannysDad said:

My son’s tournament experiences have all been through USKG and almost all events have been fantastic. I’m still at the age where a parent is required to caddy.

 

Those rounds that haven’t been positive were of course a result of parent caddies who think it’s Sunday at Augusta. A couple who have over-coached, directing every move the kid makes, every club the kid uses, pick the line on every putt and critique endlessly. The round stalls to an absolute crawl on those days.

Thankfully, that’s the exception. Mostly there is a core group of parents whose kids play together on a regular basis and the parents are all on the same page, let them have fun, learn, and rise or fall on their own. I ask my son after the round, did you try your best? And did you have fun? That’s how I measure a good day.

I believe this will be the last year he will have a caddy and will be on his own after that. Good stuff to look forward to!

These are the 3 questions every parent should ask their kids after every youth sporting event: Did you have fun? Did you do your best? Do you want ice cream?

Edited March 20, 2021 by tatertot

[ChipNRun]

On 3/16/2021 at 4:51 PM, mrshinsa said:

I've experienced this once in 5 years of my sons competitive golf.  I can kinda see why such policy is in place.  

This past weekend, one of the (golf) parents threatened to call the cops on another parent.    🙄

In recent years, this has become the policy at ranked youth Chess tournaments. No parents watching boardside and bothering the kids and referees with grunts and gasps.

 

Sadly, many sports parents can't be counted on to act like adults.