Stack and Tilt... here I come?

[Tpfol]

28 minutes ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

its actually Andy's posts on the Stack and Tilt fb page I guess. Here are just a couple examples, obviously we know who he is talking about, I just scanned the page quickly but there is a ton of this from him on the page.

 

 

 

 

 

Got it. Never saw that group before, looking at it now.

Lots of passive aggressive conversation going on there.  

[Tpfol]

On 9/16/2021 at 12:10 PM, Tugu said:

So my boy’s coach brought in a ringer yesterday. Mike Bennett, co founder of SnT, who then proceeded to work with my boys for over 2 hours. Whatever people want to say, they cannot say he is one who doesn’t give back. Teaching, videoing, adjusting, demonstrating, explaining etc for hours to two kids. Who does that?

 

Take a bow Mr Bennett, you helped inspire two kids to be the best versions of themselves in the days to come. For this, I thank you.
 

Re SnT itself, a friend and prominent Australian coach in Asia said the following to me:-

I think the more one understands it, the less you label it. Pressure can move, spine behaves specific ways etc…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, thats great stuff, your boy has got one heck of a future!

So cool to see Mike Bennett, I wasnt sure if he had a fall out with Plummer or what not. Seems like he isnt involved with ST any longer. 

[Tpfol]

1 hour ago, Tugu said:

I cant find it on Andy's FB page. But I did find some reference of Charles Howell III working with Andy? I thought he was with Grant Waite and Dana Dahlquist.

 

Links to a story?

Not sure why you quoted me on this, Im on your side! Lol

[JLP_GOLF]

Plenty of ragging in that group and honestly it’s overkill.  Agree to disagree and move on.  CH3 is working with Andy these days after losing his form under Dana (who I’ve also spent time with for lessons).  He’s finally getting back to good form and expect him to keep going in that direction.  Bennett is still plenty involved 

[Tugu]

13 hours ago, Tpfol said:

Not sure why you quoted me on this, Im on your side! Lol

 Apologies, I quoted because I also didnt find anything.

 

As for all the other stuff people are putting up for or against one another, this tribalism is nothing new. Remember the raging debates starting from golfopinions.com to now re Leadbetter, Golf Machine, hitting v swinging or handle dragging, kinematic sequencing, lateral move, how to shallow, straightening right leg, how the spine works, swing plane etc etc etc. Throw SnT into the bunch.

 

I do want to say one thing for SnT though, it has put its facts out there for peer review. Very few others have gone as far as to quantify and catalog to the same extent. SnT is an exhaustive set of laws that has held up to intense scrutiny by all and sundry. In science and business, this process should be and is rightly commended.

 

 

 

[johnrobison]

9 hours ago, Jlopicco23 said:

Plenty of ragging in that group and honestly it’s overkill.  Agree to disagree and move on.  CH3 is working with Andy these days after losing his form under Dana (who I’ve also spent time with for lessons).  He’s finally getting back to good form and expect him to keep going in that direction.  Bennett is still plenty involved 

"Losing his form"? Can you elaborate or be more specific about that?

[games]

Followed many methods and systems over the years.  I subscribe to Tom Saguto's membership site, which for me is a great supplement to Monte's core No Turn Cast model.  In this day and age, I find Tom Saguto's positive teaching refreshing.  It's borderline cheesy, but that is OK... 

 

By all accounts, Plummer and Bennett are truly good guys and pioneers in teaching based in the "new ball flight laws."  As "good guys" my guess is they take offense to having their work constantly and unfairly characterized as causing injury or otherwise not effective at helping people improve.   Their followers who have no doubt improved without putting themselves in traction are quick to jump to their defense, as well.

 

Bottom line:  I'm not going to let the quirks of an instructor prevent me from trying to learn from them, if it improves my game. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by games
Clarify membership to Saguto membership site

[JLP_GOLF]

19 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

"Losing his form"? Can you elaborate or be more specific about that?

Could I?  Yes.  But  Absolutely not.  Taking this thread in that direction serves no purpose and is the very thing I mentioned I don’t care for in most loyalists.  I will say the data is out there if you are willing to look for it

[Tugu]

22 minutes ago, Jlopicco23 said:

Could I?  Yes.  But  Absolutely not.  Taking this thread in that direction serves no purpose and is the very thing I mentioned I don’t care for in most loyalists.  I will say the data is out there if you are willing to look for it

 

I dont know if the request for elaboration was to imply anything against Dana. I am certainly interested in CH3's thoughts as I had seen much media over the changes he had made under Dana.

 

Now I want to see before and after pics/vids.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Tugu

[JLP_GOLF]

1 hour ago, Tugu said:

 

I dont know if the request for elaboration was to imply anything against Dana. I am certainly interested in CH3's thoughts as I had seen much media over the changes he had made under Dana.

 

Now I want to see before and after pics/vids.

Yes but clearly the things I’ve heard from people very close to the source would have implications.  So I chose not to share.  Data is out there tho

[Cwing]

2 hours ago, games said:

Followed many methods and systems over the years.  I subscribe to Tom Saguto's channel, which for me is a great supplement to Monte's core No Turn Cast model.  In this day and age, I find Tom Saguto's positive teaching refreshing.  It's borderline cheesy, but that is OK... 

 

 

Are you simply a you tube channel subscriber or did you go with Tom Sagutos paid service.

 

The Saguto stuff got me moving this direction. How’s his paid subscription? 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Cwing

[games]

2 hours ago, Cwing said:

Are you simply a you tube channel subscriber or did you go with Tom Sagutos paid service.

 

The Saguto stuff got me moving this direction. How’s his paid subscription? 

 

Sorry, I fixed it.  I subscribe to his paid membership site.

 

Similar to others, he puts a fraction of his pay videos on his YouTube channel and in no particular order.  Tom has a LOT of material and in really good order on the membership site.  It's clear he steers clear of the "S&T" name, but it is clearly his preferred model.  Also, he is still really positive, but not as cheesy as the videos he puts on YT.

 

He keeps an "express" series of videos and a series with more detail and drills.  I've been perusing the express library and it is still really informative.

[Tpfol]

2 hours ago, Cwing said:

Are you simply a you tube channel subscriber or did you go with Tom Sagutos paid service.

 

The Saguto stuff got me moving this direction. How’s his paid subscription? 

I was a subscriber for a time, but found that you get the gist of what he's teaching fairly quickly. Like with many YT "instructors", the need to constantly produce content creates a bit of redundancy and overload at the same time. I like Tom a whole lot and appreciate all he does. I just feel that his schtick is built to grab the new viewer, and once you're on board there's not much left to discover. 

That's what impresses me so much about Monte's stuff. He'll produce content which leads back to his catalog as opposed to the content being the catalog

[Cwing]

Thanks guys. Also, I’ll be in Myrtle in October for a golf trip. As much as I’d like to, i doubt I could get something setup with him in that time.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Cwing

[johnrobison]

8 hours ago, Jlopicco23 said:

Could I?  Yes.  But  Absolutely not.  Taking this thread in that direction serves no purpose and is the very thing I mentioned I don’t care for in most loyalists.  I will say the data is out there if you are willing to look for it

I think a discussion about how CHIII has changed his swing by moving to Plummer serves a great purpose in this thread, though. I'm not asking you to disparage anyone and I suspect that you wouldn't (nor would I), just curious to know what's meant by "losing his form". And if the data is out there - I'm not finding anything - can you just share where that data is?

[Gsea]

3 hours ago, Cwing said:

Thanks guys. Also, I’ll be in Myrtle in October for a golf trip. As much as I’d like to, i doubt I could get something setup with him in that time.

oh man being in Myrtle you gotta see TS it is a no brainer. Go a day early , stay a day later but make time !!!!

[games]

Watching Saguto's latest YT video now.  It's a VLOG of him playing Litchfield, his home course.

 

He's just really funny (to me), positive, and informative.  He's not for everybody.  

[Gsea]

 

[skujan57]

In this video I wonder at what point in the swing does Tom release the bow in the left wrist.

[johnrobison]

56 minutes ago, skujan57 said:

In this video I wonder at what point in the swing does Tom release the bow in the left wrist.

I bet that he would say he doesn't feel like he does

[Gsea]

2 hours ago, johnrobison said:

I bet that he would say he doesn't feel like he does

Yes I believe thats the feel. But the whole idea imo is to hold on as long as possible while accelerating, also believe that not being stacked with weight moving forward and this is a car crash. 

[Tugu]

Some people asking about good and dedicated SnT / golf coaches. Here’s a tiny bit of why I think Matt DeJohn deserves all the recognition and praise that goes his way. He is with my 14 year old son in the video. The man seriously works his a** off on the practice grounds and then follows the team out onto the course. Funnily enough Matt has my son really focused on speed generation. This should burst some preconceived notions.

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Tugu

[mikpga]

On 9/25/2021 at 2:10 PM, Tugu said:

Some people asking about good and dedicated SnT / golf coaches. Here’s a tiny bit of why I think Matt DeJohn deserves all the recognition and praise that goes his way. He is with my 14 year old son in the video. The man seriously works his a** off on the practice grounds and then follows the team out onto the course. Funnily enough Matt has my son really focused on speed generation. This should burst some preconceived notions.

 

 

FullSizeRender.mov 1.2 MB · 0 downloads

1. Low Point

2. Far Enough -> Elements to Increase Speed

3. Predictable Flight

[Shilgy]

On 9/18/2021 at 5:33 AM, johnrobison said:

"Losing his form"? Can you elaborate or be more specific about that?

Missed the playoffs, out of the top 125

[dana dahlquist]

On 9/18/2021 at 2:53 PM, johnrobison said:

I think a discussion about how CHIII has changed his swing by moving to Plummer serves a great purpose in this thread, though. I'm not asking you to disparage anyone and I suspect that you wouldn't (nor would I), just curious to know what's meant by "losing his form". And if the data is out there - I'm not finding anything - can you just share where that data is?

Charles and I stopped working together at the BMW fed ex cup last year 68th FedEx rank . He and I are still friends and talk almost everweek other than golf swing. Not sure about loosing form, more than trying other things. Before covid during off season Charles got to 126 mph on the range and 186 ball speed. 

what’s more important about this discussion is how good tour players are. My belief is if nobody messes with them technically that would probably do just as good or even better at times. 

As far as S&T goes, there is nothing wrong with that system. I continue to have friends still involved with it. I enjoy thinking outside the box at times as it pertains to the instruction side of golf. I do know Charles was seen taking a lesson with another teacher last week. Which is a testament of him trying to get better. 

With golf teachers I try not to take myself too seriously, have fun and get people better. Hope everyone has a great holiday. Always glad to pop into Golfwrx “feels like home haha”

 

 

[Soloman1]

Dana, Mike and Andy are all good guys who know their stuff.

 

Nothing else to say.

[dana dahlquist]

19 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Dana, Mike and Andy are all good guys who know their stuff.

 

Nothing else to say.

Yes agreed. Not saying anything pertaining to otherwise. 

[BB28403]

SnT is taught at a ton of youth golf summer academies at high end clubs.

 

either the membership doesnt understand this or doesn’t care.

 

just thinking it’s 10’s of thousands of kids learning SnT.  
 

Given time … trickle up effect?

[Rixter52]

Recently an Martin Hall on the golf channel advocated for a tilt turn and topple instead of tilt turn extend.  He was saying left shoulder down, etc.  He was a stack and tilt bill board!!  at least give stack and tilt its credit.  Switching to stack and tilt allowed me to play pain free and strike the ball much better.  I have consistently added distance each year and I can hit as many balls as I want until I get tired.  Anyone who says you will have back pain from this swing has not tried it and is full of crap.  <mike drop heard in the distance>.

 

note: no conventional golfers were hurt making this post.

[Redpro]

Any SnT instructors in the Dallas-Fort Worth area?