Stack and Tilt... here I come?

[GolfTurkey]

doh, wrong thread

Edited September 21, 2022 by GolfTurkey

[Tanner25]

Any seniors adapt the Stack and Tilt? With injuries becoming chronic, it's been even harder to turn and get back to the lead side. From what I can tell from a recent Nick Taylor video, getting/keeping the arm structure on both sides is very important?

 

 

[Etzwane]

3 hours ago, Tanner25 said:

Any seniors adapt the Stack and Tilt? With injuries becoming chronic, it's been even harder to turn and get back to the lead side. From what I can tell from a recent Nick Taylor video, getting/keeping the arm structure on both sides is very important?

 

 

 

The pro I took lessons with has students in theirs seventies and even eighties. The tilt is supposed to help turning the shoulders so it should be easier to make a good turn in the backswing... however the student must listen to  their body: if a full backswing to club parallel causes pain, then restrict the backswing to 3/4 swing (or 1/2 swing..). 

 

That said, if you advise someone with actual injuries or joint pain on the lead leg or restricted mobility in the torso or lower back to seek advice from a pro.

 

 

[Tpfol]

On 9/24/2022 at 7:26 AM, Tanner25 said:

Any seniors adapt the Stack and Tilt? 

 

Its done wonders for Alex Cejka....

[me05501]

Another user steered me toward this thread. Glad to be in the discussion. 

 

When I was taking live lessons with a good pro there were a couple of things we consistently worked on:

• Making a bigger turn with the concept that the tag in my shirt should be facing the target at the top
• Having a more neutral takeaway compared to my normal feel of "sucking the club back inside" upon takeaway
• Avoiding the flip by bowing my lead wrist in transition

I really enjoyed working with the pro and he helped me a lot in various ways. However, despite 15-20 lessons over a few years, I never could completely accomplish those three goals between lessons. 

 

Over this past season I realized something with my fairway wood and hybrid. I found that if I kept more weight on my front foot I made better contact with those longer clubs. I attributed this to better low point control and avoiding any kind of sway off the ball. 

 

I've dug into the Sagudo stuff and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've only had a couple of range sessions so far but I'm seeing some promising results. 

 

One thing that really appeals to me about this system is not having to unlearn lifelong habits like that inside takeaway that feels so natural to me. 

 

I can remember a couple of lessons with my pro where I was hitting really good shots and I told him it felt like I was making a reverse pivot. As mentioned in the SnT PDF booklet, this is a common misconception. 

 

A reverse pivot is where you pressure goes from the lead side to the trail side during the downswing so that your weight finishes fully on the trail leg. I've seen this for years because it is my dad's swing in a nutshell. 

 

I may be putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 13, but it seems like what Sagudo is teaching is pretty much laser-guided at players like me who can't seem to time up the shift forward that should precede the transition in a perfect swing. He's explicitly saying that if you don't sway back you never have to worry about feeling that shift forward at the right time. 

 

I think my biggest hurdle with this will be unlearning the fear of a reverse pivot. 

[TexasTurf]

Question for Mikpga. I get into a backswing very similar to Nelson, Palmer, DJ, Player, with a low right arm. Current instructor will not teach me a downswing move until I get a flying right arm. I'm 5 lessons in and he won't give me further advice until i lift more, but it feels horrible and unathletic. Can i play effective golf from this position or do I need to change everything I do going back to hit the ball effectively.

[me05501]

On 10/6/2022 at 12:51 PM, me05501 said:

Another user steered me toward this thread. Glad to be in the discussion. 

 

When I was taking live lessons with a good pro there were a couple of things we consistently worked on:

• Making a bigger turn with the concept that the tag in my shirt should be facing the target at the top
• Having a more neutral takeaway compared to my normal feel of "sucking the club back inside" upon takeaway
• Avoiding the flip by bowing my lead wrist in transition

I really enjoyed working with the pro and he helped me a lot in various ways. However, despite 15-20 lessons over a few years, I never could completely accomplish those three goals between lessons. 

 

Over this past season I realized something with my fairway wood and hybrid. I found that if I kept more weight on my front foot I made better contact with those longer clubs. I attributed this to better low point control and avoiding any kind of sway off the ball. 

 

I've dug into the Sagudo stuff and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've only had a couple of range sessions so far but I'm seeing some promising results. 

 

One thing that really appeals to me about this system is not having to unlearn lifelong habits like that inside takeaway that feels so natural to me. 

 

I can remember a couple of lessons with my pro where I was hitting really good shots and I told him it felt like I was making a reverse pivot. As mentioned in the SnT PDF booklet, this is a common misconception. 

 

A reverse pivot is where you pressure goes from the lead side to the trail side during the downswing so that your weight finishes fully on the trail leg. I've seen this for years because it is my dad's swing in a nutshell. 

 

I may be putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 13, but it seems like what Sagudo is teaching is pretty much laser-guided at players like me who can't seem to time up the shift forward that should precede the transition in a perfect swing. He's explicitly saying that if you don't sway back you never have to worry about feeling that shift forward at the right time. 

 

I think my biggest hurdle with this will be unlearning the fear of a reverse pivot. 

 

 

I had another sort-of range session using these feels yesterday when I took my sons to Top Golf in Knoxville. They're not golfers at all but enjoy the activity so it was a good chance for me to get in some swings toward various targets at various distances (adjusting for the limited-flight balls, of course). 

 

Our bay was on the second story which made it interesting to get that "leaning toward the target" feel. There was always a tiny bit of fear of tumbling over the edge! 

 

My early misses were hooks, predictably. I applied a couple of adjustments and eventually started getting that desired push/draw flight. 

 

The main adjustment is just to fully commit to the "tilt." Really getting my lead shoulder down and feeling both my shoulder blades facing the target made a big difference. 
 

I also recalled from the SnT PDF that they advise setting up with the club face slightly open (1-2 degrees). I think my natural tendency is to have the club face 1-2 degrees closed, so this adjustment may just be back to square for me. In any case it was enough to keep the spine axis from getting too vertical and it straightened out the ball and let me hit some really good shots. 

 

Toward the very end of our session I wanted to finally try a driver. The rubber tees at TG are purposely too low for modern drivers but I was able to wedge a tee between the rubber and the mat and hit a couple of good drives with that push/draw flight as well. That was a relief. 

 

I'll admit that I'm sort of treating SnT like a buffet and stealing the parts that fill the holes in my usual motion. Staying over the ball and getting a full shoulder turn are things my pro had me trying to do anyway so I don't have any hesitation about practicing those more. 

[rondo01]

On 10/10/2022 at 7:53 AM, me05501 said:

I'll admit that I'm sort of treating SnT like a buffet and stealing the parts that fill the holes in my usual motion. Staying over the ball and getting a full shoulder turn are things my pro had me trying to do anyway so I don't have any hesitation about practicing those more. 

 

From my understanding, I think most would say this is actually a feature of the system. IIRC, they actually mention this in the 2.0 dvd. 

[me05501]

I'd love to pick up a set of the 2.0 DVD's if anyone is willing to move theirs along. 

[Tpfol]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:52 AM, me05501 said:

I'd love to pick up a set of the 2.0 DVD's if anyone is willing to move theirs along. 

https://stackandtilt.com/product/full-4-dvd-set-downloadable-copies-version-2-0-understanding-numbers-physical-dvd-pga-show/

It's totally worth the $60

6+ hours of great info and explanation

[me05501]

1 hour ago, Tpfol said:

https://stackandtilt.com/product/full-4-dvd-set-downloadable-copies-version-2-0-understanding-numbers-physical-dvd-pga-show/

It's totally worth the $60

6+ hours of great info and explanation

 

Thanks.

 

I continue to experiment with concepts presented by the SnT teachers. It's helped me identify my tendency to sway too much off the ball so I'm focusing on making a more centered, torso-driven turn with less consciousness of what my lower body is doing. 

 

My old pro moved out of town but I had 12-15 lessons from him on the full swing. A lot of what I'm feeling as I experiment fits right into the concepts he was showing me. He liked to talk about turning the ribcage as the engine of the swing and how it could feel like effortless power if you get synched up. I'm feeling some of that now. 

 

All that said I'm not ready to become a full-fledged SnT devotee and though I bought the book I haven't cracked it yet. I feel like I'm on a good trajectory and don't want to muddle the process with more things to think about. 

[JD3]

Do stack and tilters actively thrust the pelvis in the transition from hitting area/low point, or do they allow it to be released?

[mikpga]

On 10/9/2022 at 12:46 AM, TexasTurf said:

Question for Mikpga. I get into a backswing very similar to Nelson, Palmer, DJ, Player, with a low right arm. Current instructor will not teach me a downswing move until I get a flying right arm. I'm 5 lessons in and he won't give me further advice until i lift more, but it feels horrible and unathletic. Can i play effective golf from this position or do I need to change everything I do going back to hit the ball effectively.

Sorry for late response…

 

I’d ask your coach why it is imperative to move forward.  What the bigger picture your coach has?  What “issues” are we trying to improve/solve?

[Tpfol]

18 hours ago, JD3 said:

'ttiDo stack and tilters actively thrust the pelvis in the transition from hitting area/low point, or do they allow it to be released?

In the Stack and Tilt "10 words" the last two are "Tuck Hips"

Not sure if this answers your question, but this video is good explanation 

 

[aggiegolfer21]

Stack and tilt probably works well for you because you are left leg dominant.  If you strike it well with stack and tilt then keep doing it.  #1 rule of golf - do what works.

[leezer99]

@mikpga Currently experiencing issues with long irons that are straight pushes to the right. 7 iron on down are money but 4-6 are the issue. Any ideas?

[mikpga]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

@mikpga Currently experiencing issues with long irons that are straight pushes to the right. 7 iron on down are money but 4-6 are the issue. Any ideas?

perhaps path is getting too far right?

[Tugu]

On 12/22/2022 at 5:40 PM, leezer99 said:

@mikpga Currently experiencing issues with long irons that are straight pushes to the right. 7 iron on down are money but 4-6 are the issue. Any ideas?

 

My boys both have quite abit of SnT in their swing DNA. What we found is that if the pelvic tilt created by the right hip to tailbone is released TOO EARLY via the lateral move of the hips, there CAN be some early secondary axis tilt created. This resulting in path getting too far in to out. Coinciding with this phenomenom is usually a lack of time and space for the 4-1-3-2 power accumulator unloading sequence  to take place. Awfully hard to unload PA4 when ones shoulder is busy acting as a see saw instead of a merry go round.

 

My two cents, having not seen you swing it.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Tugu

[Count64]

On 12/22/2022 at 4:40 AM, leezer99 said:

@mikpga Currently experiencing issues with long irons that are straight pushes to the right. 7 iron on down are money but 4-6 are the issue. Any ideas?

I’m the exact same, but have issues with pw shanks and wedges too. It’s odd. 
 

lost 20 yards on my 5 wood and it’s not sitting well with me. I tried switching back and forth and it’s not possible during a game. I feel like loose the shift of my previous swing. Maybe trying a more shallow swing might help the long irons? 

[mikpga]

12 hours ago, Count64 said:

I’m the exact same, but have issues with pw shanks and wedges too. It’s odd. 
 

lost 20 yards on my 5 wood and it’s not sitting well with me. I tried switching back and forth and it’s not possible during a game. I feel like loose the shift of my previous swing. Maybe trying a more shallow swing might help the long irons? 

All swings should be “shallow”…

[Cwing]

Starting fresh in 2023. Can anyone suggested some refresher video links?

 

90/90/90 a good place to start? Other?

[mikpga]

2 hours ago, Cwing said:

Starting fresh in 2023. Can anyone suggested some refresher video links?

 

90/90/90 a good place to start? Other?

90/90/90 and Swing Hard, Stop Fast are always good…

 

Stay Focused…

[KimmerBH]

I remember trying this about 15 years ago and immediately it changed the way I struck the ball. Super compression and was taking divots for the first time ever. The problem was as the club got longer it was a struggle. The woods especially just felt really awkward so I gave it up after a few months but initially I thought I found a miracle lol. 

[Tpfol]

On the topic of Stack and Tilt, Rob Cheney had a video with Andy (had been his last video posted) which was removed, and hasnt posted any YT content in over a month. Kind of strange as he's been consistently posting once a week for quite awhile.

Since I also follow his Insta, I know he was/is state side and clearly with Andy, so Im wondering if they are filming new content for either a new DVD type series, or maybe for the S&T site? Rob is very prominently featured in the drills section on the S&T (paid subscription) site, and IMO is the most true to S&T instructor online, there is.

All in all, I think there is some awesome news/content coming out soon, a true win. 

The 4 DVD set, "2.0 understanding the numbers" is the best purchase I made (Next to Monte's No Turn Cast), I watch all the time, and you dont even need to be a S&T follower to appreciate the info.

 

[Cwing]

I hate winter layoffs. Simulator league with brand new GOLFZON at local place confirms it’s ugly. Very very ugly. 
 

No / very little shoulder tilt. Sway is back, ugh!!!

 

That stated, seeing it in video was / is awesome. 

[mikpga]

29 minutes ago, Cwing said:

I hate winter layoffs. Simulator league with brand new GOLFZON at local place confirms it’s ugly. Very very ugly. 
 

No / very little shoulder tilt. Sway is back, ugh!!!

 

That stated, seeing it in video was / is awesome. 

Winter layoff?  There’s no layoff!

[Cwing]

On 2/16/2023 at 1:08 PM, mikpga said:

Winter layoff?  There’s no layoff!

I wish this were true for me…….. it’s ugly. I got very lazy my first winter of not working. It all started after I got back from Pinehurst in mid-Nov. My walking routine stopped, my fitness routine (Golf forever program) stopped and then Thanksgiving and Christmas weight gain set in.
 

That stated, Feb sim league now in full swing. Getting out to walk every chance I get.  I’ve gotten out on course 5x thus far and plan to get out again on Sunday. Sadly, I’m still not outside consistently enough to get it going.

 

I need to build a net frame, set up a grid and start getting in the reps.

[RCGA]

What's a good YouTube video that summarizes S&T?

 

I'm trying to get a feel for the system, but most videos spend too much time doing comparisons between S&T and a conventional swing 

 

 

[J_Tizzle]

57 minutes ago, RCGA said:

What's a good YouTube video that summarizes S&T?

 

I'm trying to get a feel for the system, but most videos spend too much time doing comparisons between S&T and a conventional swing 

 

 

 

I keep going back and forth if I want to try to commit to the approach because the irons can be so so so good, but the woods tend to be a mess.  Personally I follow James Frank (I think thats his name) and Saguto for the general feels/approaches to the process.

 

After my last round I lost almost 5 strokes with my approaches, so I'm thinking that this may be what I need to follow, because when I did it and committed to it the irons were almost NEVER the issue for me. 

[62@Oakmont]

2 hours ago, RCGA said:

What's a good YouTube video that summarizes S&T?

 

I'm trying to get a feel for the system, but most videos spend too much time doing comparisons between S&T and a conventional swing 

 

 

Check out Saguto, Rob Cheney, and Nick Taylor Golf.