What Driver for an "in to out" path but open Clubface. Mavrik Max, Radspeed XD, TM D-Type

[SylvesterLundgren]

lol this thread is funny. 
 

it’s not meee it’s the cluuub. 😂😂 you just complacent cause if you had to adjust hitting driver different then you’d probably feel like it would change everything about your golf swing. Golf brands Gotta love your type. 😂

 

instead of a driver tho, why not try a 2w setup with a driver shaft ?? or a consistent setup. 
Or even the g400 since the head is smaller maybe even the d3 types. 
 

Edited October 22, 2021 by SylvesterLundgren

[magnus7319]

You can close your own thread

[mogc60]

On 10/21/2021 at 9:41 AM, SvenS3 said:

I know that equipment is not changing a slice into a draw. 

 

That is not my problem. My face is only 2 degrees open, that's all. Rest is super fine and ìm a very good ball striker.

 

Just Driver is not as good as I want it to be because of the face angle.

 

So, I just want some Informations from Guys that tested the Heads and can share some experiences with the Heads.

 

Thanks for your Input

If your ball striking is good with your other clubs and it’s a driver only issue then YOU ARE CORRECT a new head may be what you are needing. Now which one, that’s the hard part. Closing the face at address is not the answer.  Every driver has a different feel. Some feel easier to swing, easier to keep square, easier to close. Maybe you feel more toe weight which gives you a better sense of the head or you feel more linear feel with the weight in the heel. I have a very straight ball flight. I don’t fight a hook, I don’t fight a fade. I hit the ball straight. Very little curve ever. I hit pulls and blocks but my ballflight is straight. There are many drivers I’ve tried (especially the past 5 years) that just seem to go right. And I fight like hell to feel the club square. Then other heads it’s no issue whatsoever. I think this is normal. Some heads fit some swings just like shafts do. I’m currently hitting a Radspeed coming from the XB model and both I find very easy to square the club yet both are very solid and stable heads. Try all that you can and there will be one that feels right to you and the ball will be online again. 

[mogc60]

10 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

So are your hands. Just grip your driver with the face closed. It couldn't be any simpler than that. If your current setup leaves the face open at impact, then change your setup. In this case, your grip.

This is not an absolute by any means. I close the face to hit a cut, and I can cut it at will. How did Tom Lehman draw every shot he ever hit with the face laid wide open at address? How did Nicklaus cut it with the face left of target on almost every setup?  Dustin Johnson, Fred Couples and David Duval had three of the strongest grips I’ve ever seen and they pee left to right

Edited October 23, 2021 by mogc60

[ChipStrokes]

OP, thank you. i’m gonna use this logic on my wife. 

 

“honey it’s not me, the car drives to the bar every night. i need a new car that doesn’t drive to the bar”

[mogc60]

Unbelievable really on a forum full of people who claim that hybrids are hooky can’t believe a driver head is not a good match for a particular player.  Whole bunch of horrible swing tips and stance advice without ever seeing this man hit a golf ball. We have all hit clubs that have a tendency to go a certain direction even on our best contact.  I read more back assward garbage on this forum without ever making a comment on how horribly wrong many of you are. I have enjoyed this forum for many years because of the resource it can be and the trial and error of others. I’m not a huge fan however of ripping someone apart that we don’t know, have never met, have never seen play. The world we live in I guess. To the OP good luck on your search, your thinking is correct. Also, I wouldn’t gravitate toward Draw heads. Most are higher spinning and higher launching. Try many manufacturers models and you will find a head that feels right to you and squaring the club will be easy again. 🍻

Edited October 23, 2021 by mogc60

[ChaosTheory]

I can tell you that for me the M4 D type goes about 20 yards left of the normal M4 with the same shaft and swing. If spin is a concern, buy a lower loft.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Snowman9000

[SvenS3]

Thanks MOGC60 for your Opinion. 

 

It seems like all the others here would be pretty good coaches, or maybe good Tour Players, because all they have to do, is adjusting their Stance and Ballposition, or just Grip it stronger with the Driver and weaker with the wedges.

Ah wait, that's not the case, because ääähhhh let me think of it.......they have kids or other excuses and no time to practice. Otherwise they would be on Tour for sure.

 

Why are you even here in the Forum? If you really think it's all the Operators fault, why are you all searching for new Clubs and try different things from different manufactures? All you have to do is adjust your Stance and Grip and voila.....you have the Ballflight you want. Easy as that. Just accept it !

 

All of you contradict yourself and it seems like many of you know nothing about the Golfswing. But think they do.

 

Some of you will be really pissed after reading this, because you know I'm right. And I bet exactly these people will reply to this with the same posts they always write: "It's you, not the club, accept it. Period! "

 

All others have a nice weekend.

 

 

[VUnit469]

If your a Titleist guy and can get your hands on one (ebay?), give a Japan spec VG3 driver a go with your current shaft.

 

I moved from my 917 to this and its one of the easiest drivers to hit.

 

Relatively inexpensive compared to the $650+ AUD drivers on the market, just for a trial see if it works for you

[Valtiel]

14 hours ago, 4bees said:

this is farther from the truth than you can even imagine.  If you have more loft and a negative angle of attack your spin rates are going to be over 4000 which correlates into low distances and horrendous misses.

 

I know from experience.  And I know from seeing numbers from other people.  It is a complete misconception about adding loft on a negative angle of attack, read anything and this is the complete opposite of what anyone should be doing.  What really needs to happen is you pair a low spin low lofted head with a driver shaft that is optimal for your conditions.  

You second sentence kinda deflates your first since there is absolutely no way 4,000rpm driver spin is guaranteed, or even caused by, a negative angle of attack with a higher lofted driver. Let me offer an explanation for that since you probably immediately just went "NO!" and called me stupid. 

First, negative angle of attack by itself does not increase spin, period. It physically can't. This is an oft repeated and heavily ingrained myth that many people still hang on to, reinforced by lots of anecdotal experiences and misleading/widely circulated charts from Trackman and PING. Negative angle of attack ONLY increases spin when it is accompanied by delivering high dynamic loft. So how would that happen? The out to in club path resulting from the terminally common steep downswing. This leftward club path requires an open face to keep from pulling the ball, and the open face adds loft, sometimes turning your driver into nearly a 5-wood.

This SO often gets lumped in with a negative angle of attack and accounts for a VAST majority of this myth because they tend to come together, but it is the added loft that creates all the spin, not the AoA. If you swing neutral, ALL a negative AoA does is reduce dynamic loft and thus reduce launch and spin, which is why you need more loft. Most people however do not swing neutral with a negative AoA and those people virtually are exclusively those swinging more out to in. THOSE people have a high dynamic loft issue which can benefit from lofting down, but not the ones that have a more neutral delivery. Everything @dsmil said is correct for people with more neutral "fundamentally" typical deliveries, and what you said only applies to people who combine a negative AoA with a moderate to severe club path issue. 

Also hyperbole is gross. Having something inverted (based on your misunderstanding) is not "further from the truth than you can even imagine" and we'd be better if we didn't talk like soap opera characters. 😅
 

2 hours ago, SvenS3 said:

Thanks MOGC60 for your Opinion. 

 

It seems like all the others here would be pretty good coaches, or maybe good Tour Players, because all they have to do, is adjusting their Stance and Ballposition, or just Grip it stronger with the Driver and weaker with the wedges.

Ah wait, that's not the case, because ääähhhh let me think of it.......they have kids or other excuses and no time to practice. Otherwise they would be on Tour for sure.

 

Why are you even here in the Forum? If you really think it's all the Operators fault, why are you all searching for new Clubs and try different things from different manufactures? All you have to do is adjust your Stance and Grip and voila.....you have the Ballflight you want. Easy as that. Just accept it !

 

All of you contradict yourself and it seems like many of you know nothing about the Golfswing. But think they do.

 

Some of you will be really pissed after reading this, because you know I'm right. And I bet exactly these people will reply to this with the same posts they always write: "It's you, not the club, accept it. Period! "

 

All others have a nice weekend.

 

 

Did you see my suggestion on the previous page? Any reason for simply not lofting up your existing driver?

Edited October 23, 2021 by Valtiel

[jeffrey r]

3 hours ago, SvenS3 said:

Thanks MOGC60 for your Opinion. 

 

It seems like all the others here would be pretty good coaches, or maybe good Tour Players, because all they have to do, is adjusting their Stance and Ballposition, or just Grip it stronger with the Driver and weaker with the wedges.

Ah wait, that's not the case, because ääähhhh let me think of it.......they have kids or other excuses and no time to practice. Otherwise they would be on Tour for sure.

 

Why are you even here in the Forum? If you really think it's all the Operators fault, why are you all searching for new Clubs and try different things from different manufactures? All you have to do is adjust your Stance and Grip and voila.....you have the Ballflight you want. Easy as that. Just accept it !

 

All of you contradict yourself and it seems like many of you know nothing about the Golfswing. But think they do.

 

Some of you will be really pissed after reading this, because you know I'm right. And I bet exactly these people will reply to this with the same posts they always write: "It's you, not the club, accept it. Period! "

 

All others have a nice weekend.

 

 

 

For some reason, your post drew too much snark and too many smart-a** responses, but whatever.  I think it’s a reading comprehension issue common on this forum.  Sort of like the ongoing P790’s Delayed thread, where the clear intent of the OP (the forest through the trees) was that in spite of the ongoing supply chain issue, TM misled initially about a quick build and delivery, and has now kept pushing back his delivery month after month after the initial promise.  Not a supply chain issue, but an OEM communication and execution issue.  Yet, every response is don’t you know there is a supply chain issue, shut up, suck it up, etc. 

[bladehunter]

On 10/21/2021 at 8:49 AM, SvenS3 said:

My swing is fine and I'm happy with it. It's a driver issue only.

 

Standard Mavrik or Mavrik Max?

 

Thanks for your Opinions

Standard Mavrik .  

[bladehunter]

15 hours ago, 4bees said:

this is farther from the truth than you can even imagine.  If you have more loft and a negative angle of attack your spin rates are going to be over 4000 which correlates into low distances and horrendous misses.

 

I know from experience.  And I know from seeing numbers from other people.  It is a complete misconception about adding loft on a negative angle of attack, read anything and this is the complete opposite of what anyone should be doing.  What really needs to happen is you pair a low spin low lofted head with a driver shaft that is optimal for your conditions.  

Have to disagree. Launch angle is a result of dynamic loft.  Club go down in path loft must go up to keep the optimum launch angle.  You can play with shaft a bit to tune launch and spin.  But it won’t effect it like center contact plus loft.     Ask DJ why he always has played a 10 degree plus head.  Sometimes turned up to 11.5.  

[JungleJimbo]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

Did you see my suggestion on the previous page? Any reason for simply not lofting up your existing driver?

“+1” re the “Loft up” suggestions!
 

🚫🍌🦍 Bob Burns has a 12* “No Bananas” offset driver! (😬🚫🤬)

Not sure which company does a modern “No Bananas” offset driver...

...maybe Tour Edge HL/ Bazooka? 
...or the Callaway Big Bertha B21?

 

IMHO... I’ve enjoyed the ping g400 SFT more than the g410sft... but an adjustable driver that can Loft Up/ Go more Upright Lie-Angle = worth experimenting, to see if this can address OP’s issues? If it’s only the driver that is slicing... then maybe the lie-angle is currently too flat? 
 

 

🚫🍌🦍

https://www.bobburnsgolf.com/product-page/no-bananas-460cc-offset-driver

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by JungleJimbo

[ChaosTheory]

@SvenS3

By the way, I’m in essentially the same boat as you.  There are plenty of draw biased drivers in the world, and most of them help a lot.  I am able to do A-B testing with my two M4s as mentioned above, and it’s night and day.  
 

Some drivers really close up (when soled) with a higher loft setting, but many now fall back to square when soled because of “better” sole designs.  The former kind affects different people differently.  Either you can grip and hover a driver in an orientation different from how it sits, or you can’t.  I can’t, not successfully anyway, and it doesn’t sound like you can either.  So you either want one that sits closed, or has effective heel weighting.  
 

Honestly I think the sits closed is more efficient than the heel weighting, but today, more and more drivers are designed to return to sitting square when lofted up.

 

The game improvement Clevelands usually sit closed.  The Cally B21 is supposed to, I think.  I haven’t checked lately because I love my M4.
 

To optimize launch and spin, a fitter might save you money versus trial and error.  And heel weighting gives lower MOI (forgiveness) than center rear weight.  I think I’ve lost a slight amount of distance with the D type, but it’s well worth the tradeoff, for me.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Snowman9000

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, SvenS3 said:

Thanks MOGC60 for your Opinion. 

 

It seems like all the others here would be pretty good coaches, or maybe good Tour Players, because all they have to do, is adjusting their Stance and Ballposition, or just Grip it stronger with the Driver and weaker with the wedges.

Ah wait, that's not the case, because ääähhhh let me think of it.......they have kids or other excuses and no time to practice. Otherwise they would be on Tour for sure.

 

Why are you even here in the Forum? If you really think it's all the Operators fault, why are you all searching for new Clubs and try different things from different manufactures? All you have to do is adjust your Stance and Grip and voila.....you have the Ballflight you want. Easy as that. Just accept it !

 

All of you contradict yourself and it seems like many of you know nothing about the Golfswing. But think they do.

 

Some of you will be really pissed after reading this, because you know I'm right. And I bet exactly these people will reply to this with the same posts they always write: "It's you, not the club, accept it. Period! "

 

All others have a nice weekend.

 

 

Sorry dude.  I feel like it was me who started that.  I was only trying to help.   I’ve been down that road and it’s hard to find the solution with a club.  But not entirely impossible.  
 

im assuming  you’re trying to hit a draw and what you’re reacting to is your miss tendency ?  As in do you get the driver to draw say 50 % of the time or more ?  If so please test the mavrik standard head with a shaft that you are familiar with and know that you like.  That way one variable is removed. I promise you can draw that head.  I couldn’t  play it because it had a big left miss.  ( drew too much ) and I don’t have a left miss with Any other club. My misses are like what you have now. Slight  Push Or straight ball that doesn’t draw.  Depending on path.  

Edited October 23, 2021 by bladehunter

[SvenS3]

Thanks for the last helpful comments.

 

I tried the TSI3 in the higher Loft settings and it seems like it did not much in affecting the closure rate of the Head itself.

 

I will try the Head again in the afternoon and play with the higher Lofts again (and more upright, too).

I will also try to get my Hands on the SIM D-Type Head, it should be laying around at our Club. 

 

Will report back again. 

[ChaosTheory]

2 minutes ago, SvenS3 said:

Thanks for the last helpful comments.

 

I tried the TSI3 in the higher Loft settings and it seems like it did not much in affecting the closure rate of the Head itself.

 

I will try the Head again in the afternoon and play with the higher Lofts again (and more upright, too).

I will also try to get my Hands on the SIM D-Type Head, it should be laying around at our Club. 

 

Will report back again. 

My experience is that Titleist player model drivers do not fit the bill for this.   Go for the Max, game improvement types.  There are now low spin Max models too.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Snowman9000

[Duffer222]

1 hour ago, SvenS3 said:

Thanks for the last helpful comments.

 

I tried the TSI3 in the higher Loft settings and it seems like it did not much in affecting the closure rate of the Head itself.

 

I will try the Head again in the afternoon and play with the higher Lofts again (and more upright, too).

I will also try to get my Hands on the SIM D-Type Head, it should be laying around at our Club. 

 

Will report back again. 

I think the SIM D type head will give you a better chance.  It stops my natural fade unless I just put a bad swing on it. Mine is 9.0 and I turned it up to the setting right below 10.5 and it’s now almost perfect.

your comments about the “coaches” on here is spot on!  It’s painful to read often times.  Best of Luck Sven!

[WristySwing]

On 10/21/2021 at 8:12 AM, SvenS3 said:

The TSI2 is not like the Mavrik or Radspeed in my Opinion. Hit it the same as the TSI 3 (face wise)

 

Just cycling back to this, have you hit all 3 of these side by side?  You haven't made this very clear.  I can tell you straight up that you can make the TSi2 work just as well as the Mavrik or Radspeed for adding more draw.  I have been fitting for over 15 years and seen it all.  I can make any club do anything I want with the right combo of tools.  On paper does the Mavrik Max or Radspeed Draw stop the ball slicing/pushing better out of the box?  Sure it does because of that massive draw weight, but the TSi2 with the face closed and in upright is a very draw biased driver.  However, be aware that the standard Radspeed is not going to be much better than the TSI3 in terms of adjustability.  The Radspeed only has a low spin or mid spin weight and a hosel adjustment to close the face a touch.  You can actually make the TSi3 more draw biased than you can with the standard RadSpeed if you know how to set it up properly.  The Radspeed XD and Mav. Max will probably be more like your old Ping, easy to draw but spin is an issue on those typically because of how heavy the head is.  I don't know the direct correlation but I have found on drivers some heavier heads will spin a bit more than standard weight heads.  I am pretty sure it has something to do with the added weight causing the player to release the club a bit earlier presenting more dynamic loft and moving the strike point lower on the head.  I have not done a test on this to determine the statistical significance but it sounds right and would make sense based on what we know about strike location and spin rate relationships.

If possible, I'd like you to try 2 heads and report back.  The G410 SFT 10* and crank it open to 8.5* with the stock Tour 65 stiff shaft.  This should provide the same launch and spin as the TSi3 with the AV White but in a much easier to turn over package.  The second is the Mizuno ST200G. Put both weights in the draw setting and then move the adapter to the standard upright at 9*.  Same principles as the Ping but now you have a driver that won't sit open.  The Tensei series is stock in these so you should be able to find a Tensei White 60 Stiff easily to demo.

Good luck

Edited October 23, 2021 by WristySwing

[WristySwing]

Double post

Edited October 23, 2021 by WristySwing

[WristySwing]

Embarrassing triple post...geez I am getting old.

Edited October 23, 2021 by WristySwing

[Hack Daddy]

Buy whatever driver you like. Get an align grip and install it with the face shut. 

 

Probl solved. 

[4bees]

13 hours ago, Valtiel said:

You second sentence kinda deflates your first since there is absolutely no way 4,000rpm driver spin is guaranteed, or even caused by, a negative angle of attack with a higher lofted driver. Let me offer an explanation for that since you probably immediately just went "NO!" and called me stupid. 

First, negative angle of attack by itself does not increase spin, period. It physically can't. This is an oft repeated and heavily ingrained myth that many people still hang on to, reinforced by lots of anecdotal experiences and misleading/widely circulated charts from Trackman and PING. Negative angle of attack ONLY increases spin when it is accompanied by delivering high dynamic loft. So how would that happen? The out to in club path resulting from the terminally common steep downswing. This leftward club path requires an open face to keep from pulling the ball, and the open face adds loft, sometimes turning your driver into nearly a 5-wood.

This SO often gets lumped in with a negative angle of attack and accounts for a VAST majority of this myth because they tend to come together, but it is the added loft that creates all the spin, not the AoA. If you swing neutral, ALL a negative AoA does is reduce dynamic loft and thus reduce launch and spin, which is why you need more loft. Most people however do not swing neutral with a negative AoA and those people virtually are exclusively those swinging more out to in. THOSE people have a high dynamic loft issue which can benefit from lofting down, but not the ones that have a more neutral delivery. Everything @dsmil said is correct for people with more neutral "fundamentally" typical deliveries, and what you said only applies to people who combine a negative AoA with a moderate to severe club path issue. 

Also hyperbole is gross. Having something inverted (based on your misunderstanding) is not "further from the truth than you can even imagine" and we'd be better if we didn't talk like soap opera characters. 😅
 

Did you see my suggestion on the previous page? Any reason for simply not lofting up your existing driver?

Do some research. That’s all I’m going to say. Plenty of reading material out there to disprove your way of thinking. And yes a higher lifted driver with a negative angle of attack is going to give you 4000 rpm. 
 

Does Tiger use a 11* driver with his -5.5 angle of attack?  Nah didn’t think so. 
 

Again read and do some research. Don’t sit here and lecture me. 

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, 4bees said:

Do some research. That’s all I’m going to say. Plenty of reading material out there to disprove your way of thinking. And yes a higher lifted driver with a negative angle of attack is going to give you 4000 rpm. 
 

Does Tiger use a 11* driver with his -5.5 angle of attack?  Nah didn’t think so. 
 

Again read and do some research. Don’t sit here and lecture me. 

My entire post was the product of the data and research shown by people like @Howard_Jones . And no, no one is spinning the ball 4,000 just because of negative AoA, again. You have no evidence that can support this because it isn't true. 

This isn't "my way of thinking", this is what the current (accurate) data supports. Dynamic loft and strike location are all that matters for driver spin. Negative angle of attack with a neutral delivery usually decreases dynamic loft (unless you also flip the club to increase dynamic loft). The ONLY reason to decrease driver loft with a negative AoA is because your dynamic loft is too high, period. This is just simple cause and effect; too much delivered loft = too much spin so you loft down. The only reason you have too much loft is either the path issue I mentioned above and the compensation required for it, or flipping at impact, or both. Pros don't really have this issue to any extreme, and your Tiger Woods example is only valid when he is hitting his squeeze fade shot which is both tee'd lower which results in an average increase in spin due to an average drop in strike location and a slight increase in delivered loft due to the face being open to the path. 

If you don't understand how delivered/dynamic loft and strike location influence spin and instead believe that AoA is a magical arbiter of it then you need to check your high spin, negative AoA data against delivered loft and club path. If you can't check those things, then you can't establish a correlation. I can hit down on the ball 3* with the driver and spin it 2,000 and I can hit up on it 3* and spin it 3,000 (happy to prove this as well). Here is some supplemental TrackMan data:



Koepka was using a 10.5* Taylormade driver around this time, not sure what the loft of this Nike driver was though. His AoA is apparently more level now, but here is almost 4* down but with a very close to neutral path (1.7* left). 



Here is LPGA player Anne Van Dam playing a 10.5* driver (according to her WITB) hitting slightly down with VERY low spin. 



Henrik Stenson hitting 3.3* down on his 3-wood and still only producing "normal" 3-wood spin numbers. 



Jamie Donaldson with his 9.5* SLDR (set two ticks HIGHER, so either 10.5* or 11*) hitting down and producing normal spin. 

And if your response to this "well they are pros, you can't compare etc etc" then you're partially correct. They hit down WITHOUT producing excess dynamic loft (which causes high spin) and therefore their spin is "normal". 

Either provide data that supports your points and refutes mine, or don't bother with your 4,000 spin exaggerations. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Valtiel

[dsmil]

2 hours ago, 4bees said:

Do some research. That’s all I’m going to say. Plenty of reading material out there to disprove your way of thinking. And yes a higher lifted driver with a negative angle of attack is going to give you 4000 rpm. 
 

Does Tiger use a 11* driver with his -5.5 angle of attack?  Nah didn’t think so. 
 

Again read and do some research. Don’t sit here and lecture me. 

So who should get the high lofted drivers in your opinion? The positive AoA guys so they don’t spin it at 1,000 rpm?

 

I hit 2 down on the ball and swing it at 110 mph. I had some 1800 rpm shots and some 3,000 rpm shots on Trackman the other day (avg 2,500). Same angle of attack, same dynamic loft, same spin loft. The difference was strike location. I was also 5 down on a few that were also in the mid/high 2000’s, because my dynamic loft went lower as my AoA did. The only thing that changed on those was that my launch was lower, which is why most people with negative AoA’s require more loft than they would if their AoA was positive. This is a common relationship between AoA and dynamic loft, and therefore spin often stays in the same ballpark even when AoA changes. PGA trackman average chart has average angle of attack at -1 and they spin it at 2,700 with very fast swing speeds.

Edited October 24, 2021 by dsmil

[Howard_Jones]

On 10/22/2021 at 9:16 AM, SvenS3 said:

 

 

And that only because of the Face beeing 2 degrees too open. So I would need a Head that is easier to turn than the TSI3, or a Head that is more closed from the beginning.

 

 

2* is equal to 1/3 of a minute on a analog clock.
Rotate the club against closed at address, grip it in that position and swing it, its all it takes to fix it.

[Howard_Jones]

On 10/22/2021 at 9:11 PM, 4bees said:

this is farther from the truth than you can even imagine.  If you have more loft and a negative angle of attack your spin rates are going to be over 4000 which correlates into low distances and horrendous misses.

 

I know from experience.  And I know from seeing numbers from other people.  It is a complete misconception about adding loft on a negative angle of attack, read anything and this is the complete opposite of what anyone should be doing.  What really needs to happen is you pair a low spin low lofted head with a driver shaft that is optimal for your conditions.  

Angle of attack is NOT a contributor that matters for SPIN on drivers, thats a old myth
We use higher loft to compensate for a negative AOA, and lower loft to compensate for a positive AOA. For drivers, spin is dictated by vertical gear effects and dynamic loft.

We can have a positive AOA and a impact very low on the face = high spin values
We can have a negative AOA and a impact high on the face = low spin values

If we can remain a good impact position for both positive and negative AOA, we only change dynamic loft and by that, launch angle, not spin values, since thats a question om vertical gear effects (impact position vs COG)

Its all due to impact position on the face and vertical gear effects, AOA itself dont really matter for spin, but it matters for dynamic loft and launch angle.

This illustration shows how launch and spin changes due to impact position

Edited October 24, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[SvenS3]

I was able to test my TSI3 again in different Hosel Settings. It doesn't get better. Face is always open.

 

All other Clubs are no problem. My TS2 3 Wood is either no Problem to draw.

 

Yesterday I had the chance to hit the Taylormade Sim2 D Type (12 degrees and regular Shaft). That was the only combo I could find at our club.

 

To make it short: Every ball starts to the left and some draw even further. I played it in the upright Lie Hosel setting or between Upright and Higher.

 

In the normal setting it goes right, not so much as the TSI3 but can't turn it over.

 

But I wasn't able to find a good setting in the short time. Just wanted you to know, that the Head makes a difference for me.

So I have to test other Heads.

 

The Point with the Radspeed is similar to the TSI3 is a good one.

 

G410 SFT turned down to 8,5 was the setting I tested in my former SFT, it doesn't work out great. Many balls lost to the right.

[JungleJimbo]

34 minutes ago, SvenS3 said:

I was able to test my TSI3 again in different Hosel Settings. It doesn't get better. Face is always open.

 

All other Clubs are no problem. My TS2 3 Wood is either no Problem to draw.

 

Yesterday I had the chance to hit the Taylormade Sim2 D Type (12 degrees and regular Shaft). That was the only combo I could find at our club.

 

To make it short: Every ball starts to the left and some draw even further. I played it in the upright Lie Hosel setting or between Upright and Higher.

 

In the normal setting it goes right, not so much as the TSI3 but can't turn it over.

 

But I wasn't able to find a good setting in the short time. Just wanted you to know, that the Head makes a difference for me.

So I have to test other Heads.

 

The Point with the Radspeed is similar to the TSI3 is a good one.

 

G410 SFT turned down to 8,5 was the setting I tested in my former SFT, it doesn't work out great. Many balls lost to the right.

@SvenS3thanks for the update... have you considered paying for a fitting? (sorry if this has been asked before... am wondering if the fitting might provide you with useful info

 

eg I found a 2-wood length shaft (approx 0.5 inch shorter than ‘standard’ 45 inches) in my driver = did wonders for my driving game. Hit the sweet spot way more often & perhaps made the lie-angle a bit more upright(?).  
Had to add-back some head weight, to offset the shorter shaft. 

 

IMHO... Getting a fitting might reduce the frustrations of a DIY search/ expedite your search for that  “one true love” driver 😬 & paying the fitter for his time gets that useful info without the obligation to buy?

Edited October 24, 2021 by JungleJimbo