Is the 3 wood becoming redundant?

[The Pearl]

4 hours ago, NoTalentLefty said:

This is the truth for around 70 pct of those golfing. 

I don't see this out in the wild.  The modern driver is the easiest club to hit in the bag.  In fact, I can't think of anybody I have gotten paired with over the last several year that used their 3-wood. 

 

Again, if you hit your 3-wood off the tee better than your driver, you have a poorly fitted driver, probably not enough loft and/or the club is too long.  Tom Wishon has wrote about these two issues over and over again.

[BIG STU]

22 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I can still wallop a 3 wood, but been using a 16' 4wd at 3wd length instead due to its slightly higher trajectory.  If I need to find a tight fairway or a specific spot in a fairway, I will always opt for my 2 iron, maybe 3 iron. 

 

Unless a Par 5 is somewhat short, I don't go for the green in two anymore.  Though I can get real close to some greens, I am all about course mgt, so chose my yardage leave wisely.  A few buddies that are longer than me, always go for the green in two.  I just laugh under my breath.  Their leave is often a yardage where they don't have the next shot. 

 

 

Yep basically you play like I do-- I know my yardages and my management--- Now I do play my old V-Steel 3 wood bent down to 14*. With the NVS 65 shaft and the weight placement with lead tape this club can be very verisitile for me. With the wind here in my area I can hit the low cut screamer back in my stance of I can hit a higher flight. As windy and wide open as my course is I can flat hit a runner. My wife played with me yesterday afternoon in a little event. She says she can always tell when I flush that thing because it sounds like a 22 rifle going off. I had played an Adams 4 wood as I call it at 16.5 for a while but found the V-Steel more versitile for my game. But that is me and all I can say it works for me

[mcs4]

7 minutes ago, The Pearl said:

I don't see this out in the wild.  The modern driver is the easiest club to hit in the bag.  In fact, I can't think of anybody I have gotten paired with over the last several year that used their 3-wood. 

 

Again, if you hit your 3-wood off the tee better than your driver, you have a poorly fitted driver, probably not enough loft and/or the club is too long.  Tom Wishon has wrote about these two issues over and over again.

 

I see plenty of this out in the wild. I know plenty of folks who are more reliable with their 3 wood than driver, including myself. I can also tell you that I spent a good hour on a launch monitor with a fitter and could not find a single driver configuration that I hit even remotely well as a random Callaway mini driver they had on hand, which in theory should be substantially less forgiving based upon head size and technology.

 

I also tend to play my drivers at between 10.5-11.5 loft and no more than 44.5" in length -- although I have at least tried most everything -- so I don't think insufficient loft or long length is the issue.

 

For context, I am not a poor driver by any means. I would say that I am no worse than average in comparison to others I play with at around my skill level (currently around 13 handicap). I'm just *more* reliable with the 3 wood, and therefore use it fairly often on the tee.

[tofur99]

4 hours ago, Bdck said:

Right now I'm gaming with flat carries according to launch monitors at my club...

 

Driver at 6.5 - 330 (tee)

3 wood at 14 - 280 (tee)

2 iron at 16 - 260 (tee)

5 wood at 20 - 250 (deck)

3 iron at 21 - 225 (deck)

 

My biggest gap is between driver and 3 wood (50 yards).  Looking at making a move to a 12.5 3 wood since speed and spin aren't issues for me.

 

My 2 iron and 5 wood go about the same off the deck, but they get there in very different ways.  It's a weird setup, but I use both clubs a ton so who cares right?

 

4-iron got the boot because my gapping between 3 iron and 5 iron is less than 20 yards.

 

 

how often are you needing to hit 3 wood over 280?  If it's a tee shot you caa just swing smooth w/ driver and take a easy 20-30 yards off it

[Pepperturbo]

@mcs4

What you say is what I see most often here in CA.  Dispersion with driver is so high for average Joe, he uses 3 or 5 wood or a hybrid off most tees.  Then there's the guy that uses a Driver off every 4 and 5, yet it doesn't find fairways, and he doesn't have the next shot.

 

My TS2 is 9.5, but sleeve adjust makes it 11'

My 4 wd is 16.5 but sleeve adj = 15.75'

Edited November 11, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[mcs4]

4 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

 

What you say is what I see most often here in CA.  Dispersion with driver is so high for average Joe, he uses 3 or 5 wood or a hybrid off most tees.  Then there's the guy that uses a Driver off every 4 and 5, yet it doesn't find fairways, and he doesn't have the next shot.

 

My opinion is that people give too much credit to a clubhead's general amount of "forgiveness" on mishits when talking about shot dispersion, as opposed to the countless other factors that can come into play -- not the least of which being the simple fact that a ball hit at a slower speed will tend to travel less far offline, everything else being equal.

[Bdck]

14 minutes ago, tofur99 said:

 

how often are you needing to hit 3 wood over 280?  If it's a tee shot you caa just swing smooth w/ driver and take a easy 20-30 yards off it

I get into trouble when I make weak controlling swings.  When I hit driver I'm almost always going 100%, same for 3 wood. 

 

When I need to take some yardage off the driver I either try to work a cut or smoke a 3 wood.  Truthfully, here in TX, when things dry out a stinger 2 iron runs out over 300 most of the time.  None of this is really about need, but more about being a fractionally better option in terms of strokes gained.

[RoyalMustang]

3 minutes ago, mcs4 said:

 

My opinion is that people give too much credit to a clubhead's general amount of "forgiveness" on mishits when talking about shot dispersion, as opposed to the countless other factors that can come into play -- not the least of which being the simple fact that a ball hit at a slower speed will tend to travel less far offline, everything else being equal.

 

Yeah; a miss with my 4W isn't as bad as my driver, and a miss with my hybrid isn't as bad as my 4W.  A ball traveling 165mph offline goes a lot further out of bounds than a ball traveling 135 yards offline.  

 

it is the whole "better to be 250 in the first cut of rough than 300 and completely blocked by trees". Of course, on the former you are probably playing for par if it is an longish par 4, but on the latter, bogey.  

 

Hitting a driver only works if you have a reasonable expectation of being in the fairway.  I can hit 290 yard drives in the "fairway" on the range all day long. Put me on a tee, let my swing get a little quick, and you can just add a stroke or 2 to my score right there.  

[RoyalMustang]

3 minutes ago, Bdck said:

I get into trouble when I make weak controlling swings.  When I hit driver I'm almost always going 100%, same for 3 wood. 

 

When I need to take some yardage off the driver I either try to work a cut or smoke a 3 wood.  Truthfully, here in TX, when things dry out a stinger 2 iron runs out over 300 most of the time.  None of this is really about need, but more about being a fractionally better option in terms of strokes gained.

 

Same here; a "controlled' swing usually cuts my swing short. I need to get to the top and properly load to make a good swing; if i try to go easy and don't take a full backswing, really bad things happen with my driver.  An easy swing should be a full swing, just with slower hip speed, but my brain refuses to coooperate. 

[tofur99]

2 hours ago, Bdck said:

I get into trouble when I make weak controlling swings.  When I hit driver I'm almost always going 100%, same for 3 wood. 

 

When I need to take some yardage off the driver I either try to work a cut or smoke a 3 wood.  Truthfully, here in TX, when things dry out a stinger 2 iron runs out over 300 most of the time.  None of this is really about need, but more about being a fractionally better option in terms of strokes gained.

 

Guess it would come down to how often you need a 3-wood to hit par 5's in 2, if you never need it then crank the degrees down

[Bdck]

1 hour ago, tofur99 said:

 

Guess it would come down to how often you need a 3-wood to hit par 5's in 2, if you never need it then crank the degrees down

Good call, and to be honest, I don't really give a s*** about stopping power from 280.  

[benclab]

To answer the main question in one word: no.

[JDobs]

Love the question. Had been thinking of this often and given the replies, others have as well.
 

There are some good precedent examples of pros using 4-woods however 3-5 wood set ups seem to be more dominant. 
 

Echoing others, I’ve found the answer is a personal choice and comes down to confidence, course management and gapping.
 

After playing with various set ups I’ve personally found:

- 3 wood often bunches w/ driver w/ marginal, if any, improved accuracy

- 4 wood is 10-15 yards shorter than 3 wood but with better accuracy and ball flight and gaps better with rest of set; admittedly it’s mostly used off the tee and rarely from fairways 

- Utility iron (2-3 iron at 19-20*) is an awesome tool when woods are not cooperating or aren’t necessary given course length; modern utility irons like Titleist U505 provide awesome launch and decent angles without the heavy draw bias of most hybrids (I.e. fairway finder + club for hitting second shots into par 5s that land soft and hold green)

- Carrying two woods (Driver + 4 wood) and a utility iron provides better top end gapping and allows 4 wedges at the bottom of the bag (where it counts most given frequency of use)

 

Set up and Arccos data:

Driver: G410 9* — 302y, 43% fairway
4w: TSi2 16.5* at 15.75 — 270y, 48% fairway

3i: U505 19* — 250y, 54% fairway

4i: Zx7 22* — 235y, 60% fairway

Fun to think through, test and refine. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by JDobs

[Mookieb10]

Redundant? No. One-dimensional? Often. 
 

This is ok. You don’t need every club in your bag to be a Swiss Army Knife.

[blopar]

For years I tossed the 3 wood out, having difficulty launching off the ground and gamed an 18 degree  5 wood,  21 and 25 degree hybrids.  Now with equipment advances I am gaming a High Launch 3 at 16.5 degrees (call it a 4 wood if you wish),  a 21 degree Heavenwood, and the same hybrids.  5 wood is gone. The Heavenwood which has a 3 wood length shaft replaces the 5 wood, launches a bit higher and is just as long, and longer than the 21 degree hybrid. The High Launch 3(I call it a 4) makes the 3 wood relevant again.

[NoTalentLefty]

20 hours ago, The Pearl said:

I don't see this out in the wild.  The modern driver is the easiest club to hit in the bag.  In fact, I can't think of anybody I have gotten paired with over the last several year that used their 3-wood. 

 

Again, if you hit your 3-wood off the tee better than your driver, you have a poorly fitted driver, probably not enough loft and/or the club is too long.  Tom Wishon has wrote about these two issues over and over again.

Won’t argue fitting would help. I can hit a driver better than a 3 wood on most days but the real issue for some is the longer length of today’s modern driver . I go to 45 at present as my max length up from 44.5 from a few years ago. 

[RainShadow]

I have a 3HL @ 16.5*, which is really a 4wd.

I've been playing a 16.5 or 17* 4 wood @ 43" for a few years now with great success after struggleing to elevate a 14.5-15* 3 wood for a while as I've aged. I hit the 4's nearly as far and with a little higher flight and much more consistently.

 

[NOVAlars]

As mentioned above a few times, I don’t think there’s a one size fits all approach. I’d encourage anyone on the fence to try out a few options (combinations of irons, hybrids, and woods and different playing lengths) at the top of the bag to see what works best. 
Personally, I found a lot of success with a hybrid at 18 or 19 degrees and wanted to see if a lower lofted hybrid would be better than my 915f 15 degree. I purchased a mizuno clk 16 degree and tuned it down to 15. The clk is more accurate, easier to launch high into greens, and much easier to hit out of the rough. Can even hit stingers on windy days. Sacrificed some yardage with the shorter shaft in the clk (245 vs 255) but it’s an awesome insurance policy when the driver isn’t behaving or I need to thread one. 
The shorter shaft even inspired me to butt trim and tip my driver shaft. Again, not as long but much more accurate these days. 
No right answer at the top of the bag. But worth making a move if you have a  certain comfort level with a club type.

[JD3]

I recently dumped a lower lofted 3 wood and went to a 3 wood length with what would be considered 4 wood loft (16.5). this also allowed me to ditch the hybrid and use a 3 iron again which always looked better to my eye. driver has been easier to hit for a while off the tee making it the "safer" choice than 3 wood. i went to a 3 wood that was more designed to be easier to launch off the turf too.

[taxman24]

I use Callaway "woods" and hybrids. I play three to four times a week at my club. I play three sets of tees depending on the day/group. I can hit a 3W off a short tee but struggled big time off the fairway. I just put in play the Epic Super Hybrid 16 degree #2  and screwed it 15 to match my 3W. I am killing it off the deck and have kept my tee box length and accuracy when I play it. I also get a bit more elevation and can hold our long par 3 with it. My point is with the never ending technology advances you can find a solution that might be a better fit and more versitile. I traded in my 3W.

[timothyjames333]

After seeing Bryson's WITB around the time of The Ryder Cup, I remembered something Phil did for a Masters one year: he had two drivers, one set up to go left and one to go right. After years of shaping a fade with my driver I can now say I've comfortably eliminated the left hand miss from my driver. The problem being that I do not have a draw with a driver in my bag. So for years I've been tuning my 3 wood to fly about 30 yards less but turn over consistently so I can use it on dogleg lefts. 

 

Finally, after doing some work with the new Apex UW in 17* looking to replace my Ping G hybrid (17*), and while I'm still trying to get the shaft right with that guy, I realized that off-the-deck, any distance gains between a 3 wood and a hybrid, which were minimal, were greatly offset by the consistency of contact and dispersion. 

 

So, finally, in looking forward to next year's setup I looked into an avenue I had tried back when my driver was giving me fits and tried a mini driver. Instead of a driver replacement, this time I set out to replace my 3 wood. Both the SLDR TP and the Aeroburner TP were 12* which lost me yards off the tee but helped get me back in the short stuff. With the new minis, The Original One and the 300, we now have adjustability so I was able to get the open face I like to look at while dialing in the loft to come in with about a 5* gap between my driver and my "3 wood" and resulting in the 30 yard gap in carry distance I was looking for. 

 

Another benefit has been the ability to have one driver that produces a really flat fade that runs out and one that produces a teardrop draw that sits right where it lands. 

 

Hopefully, in the simulator over the winter, I'll be able to work up a kick-draw like Jack Nicklaus used to do but that's just getting greedy!

[MountainKing]

Still carry mine, not gonna change soon.  It's become more of a second tee club for me when I need to stay short of something or find the fairway.  There's almost no situation that I'd hit it off the deck anymore, especially with the new Super Hybrid.  

[agood3putt]

5W cranked to 4W loft is your friend

[randywall]

On 11/11/2021 at 4:29 AM, Ger21 said:

I just dropped my 3W and replaced it with a 4W. Higher flight, lower spin, easier to hit.

I did the same. Replaced a 15* 3W with a 16.5* 4W, and the gapping makes more sense now, with my next club being a 2H.

I still need an absolutely perfect lie in the middle of the fairway to strike it properly off the deck though.

[joostin]

The general public I feel gets taught by tradition and what's popular dictating what clubs they're "supposed" to have - 3W being one - without much instruction or fittings or knowledge of equipment or strategy in general.  WRXers do a better job at club setup because we care and experiment way more than most.

 

It's just what shots you need with your abilities on the courses you play.  It could mean you just need to find a reliable shorter 3W/4W.  3W for me, being relatively long on short courses, doesn't really come into play much unless there's a hole I can drive with it or playing a par 5 into wind or after duffing a drive.  So with 3W as a mostly tee club I've gone instead to the 2 driver route, draw / fade, to attack doglegs left and right.  No need to stick to the norm.

[bomberman]

It depends on your game and the courses you play. 

 

Are you using the 3 wood off tee only (staying short of trouble or is it for accuracy/shape)? using it into greens?

 

I went over my bag and for the courses that I play, and for me the 3 wood was redundant, as my old 3 wood would be a bit too close to my driver and it was probably no more accurate, the par 5s I would be using it on 3 of the 4 have water in front and trouble to the sides. So in a sense if I need to hit a 3 wood into those par 5s I would score better by laying up, therefore not much benefit.

 

That being said I lofted down a 5 wood, it is shorter than my 3 wood but is more forgiving and easy to hit high off non-perfect lies.

 

I would say if you are only using the 3 wood as a second driver you are likely giving up something somewhere else in the bag, or at least I hate having multiple one-dimension club (already have a driver and a putter). 

[Arizona Slim]

I gave up on 3 woods long ago.  Although there was a difference in length between the driver and the 3 wood, the missing length made a difference.  I went to a 3-16.5 HL and a 5-21 HL and these work just fine.  Both are much easier to hit off the deck.  Unless you are super long, how often do you use a 3 wood off of a tee?  I play on Arizona desert courses where one has fairway and desert and not much in between.  Get accurate with your driver and you won't have to go to a 3 wood.

[jt2gt]

21 hours ago, timothyjames333 said:

After seeing Bryson's WITB around the time of The Ryder Cup, I remembered something Phil did for a Masters one year: he had two drivers, one set up to go left and one to go right. After years of shaping a fade with my driver I can now say I've comfortably eliminated the left hand miss from my driver. The problem being that I do not have a draw with a driver in my bag. So for years I've been tuning my 3 wood to fly about 30 yards less but turn over consistently so I can use it on dogleg lefts. 

 

Finally, after doing some work with the new Apex UW in 17* looking to replace my Ping G hybrid (17*), and while I'm still trying to get the shaft right with that guy, I realized that off-the-deck, any distance gains between a 3 wood and a hybrid, which were minimal, were greatly offset by the consistency of contact and dispersion. 

 

So, finally, in looking forward to next year's setup I looked into an avenue I had tried back when my driver was giving me fits and tried a mini driver. Instead of a driver replacement, this time I set out to replace my 3 wood. Both the SLDR TP and the Aeroburner TP were 12* which lost me yards off the tee but helped get me back in the short stuff. With the new minis, The Original One and the 300, we now have adjustability so I was able to get the open face I like to look at while dialing in the loft to come in with about a 5* gap between my driver and my "3 wood" and resulting in the 30 yard gap in carry distance I was looking for. 

 

Another benefit has been the ability to have one driver that produces a really flat fade that runs out and one that produces a teardrop draw that sits right where it lands. 

 

Hopefully, in the simulator over the winter, I'll be able to work up a kick-draw like Jack Nicklaus used to do but that's just getting greedy!

So are you looking to go Driver, Mini, 17UW....then what?  Ive been doing Driver, Strong 3, 16.5 then 1 or 2 hybs or a driving iron in there depending on course.  

[garyt]

On 11/10/2021 at 4:54 PM, Pepperturbo said:

Try getting paired with better golfers. It may surprise you.  LOL  I hit my 4wd 225-230+ off the deck, depending on my bones, still can't reach Par 5's in 2, unless I play ole man tees... My 2 iron 215-225ish. 

They don't even have to be that good. I'm a 12 and have no problem hitting a 3 wood well. I think the above poster is just transferring his weakness on to others.

[glowchoy]

3w is one of my favorite clubs. It sees regular use regardless of where I play, off the tee or off the fairway, and fills the yardage gap nicely. 
 

I used to hate fairway woods and didn’t carry any for many years.  Getting fit for one changed that completely.