Truefitclubs issue

[Writethewrongs]

Has anyone ever had clubs built from Truefitclubs? Several weeks ago I had them reshaft my irons from DG S300 to Aerotech Steelfiber fc 115 cw. I requested they be 1/2" short and wanted a sw of D3 with pw being D4. After paying for the order and paying for shipping,  I received clubs which were regular flex when I ordered stiff. The sw also varied from C9 to a max weight of D1. They stated my desired swingweight was not acheievable due to using graphite shafts and not wanting to add more than 8g of tungsten powder.

 

After noticing the error, I had them install the correct flex and instead make clubs 1/4" short to preserve as much sw as possible. After waiting and receiving the clubs again, the longer shafts are lighter than the shorter shafts! Every 1/2" affects sw by 3pts. The longer shafts now have a max sw of D0,  with many of them being C9. By default,  a longer shaft HAS to have a higher sw.

 

Srixon ZX-7 have a stock sw of D3 with a 114g shaft and 52g grip. The 5i is 38." If these shafts are cut .5" that would make sw D0,  in which case 6g of tungsten powder could be used to add 3 sw points. The shafts I ordered are 113g according to Truefitclubs and the grips I selected are 47g. To make it even more simple,  I am using MP-68 irons which are a heavier head than ZX-7 heads. Heavier heads plus lighter grips should have left no problems with giving me the sw I ordered. For shafts that are flighted to be stiffer in short irons and softer in the longer irons,  it makes no sense that the 4i is the stiffest iron in the set.

 

I have been in contact with the owner where he blames shaft model and flex for being the culprit to not providing the feel that is lacking.

 

As it stands,  I am left with irons that are too long with a head I cannot feel. Yes  that .25" makes a big difference. I looked like a complete fool at the range hitting every single shot fat or thin. For the first time in over a decade of golfing,  I did not finish the bucket at the range. On their website, Truefitclubs claims to be a Golf Digest top 100 clubfitter. Has anyone ever ordered from them before?

Edited December 2, 2021 by Writethewrongs
Added build sheet. No clue why it loaded upside down

[WristySwing]

I haven't ordered from them before but in my experience reading these types of threads it seems more and more common that these Top 100 Clubfitters pay some sort of fee to be advertised in Golf Digest vs. actually working their way up into the upper echelon of club making through actual skill.  The way I see it, you have two possible outcomes.  First, is you message the owner and tell them you want your money back and your clubs reshafted back to what was in them because any issues with the SW should have been denoted ahead of time.  They are correct that Steelfibers are a bit of a pain to swingweight, add on to that you are dealing with a 15g lighter shaft and shorter length.  It doesn't surprise me that they weren't able to target D3-D4 as that is not possible really using your components of choice.  However, that should have been disclosed at the onset.  The other option is you just chalk it up to a lesson learned, eat the cost of the shafts and walk away from the situation and look for someone else to help you in your build goals.  I must stress though that going short + light + counterweighted (as some SF are) is not conducive to D3-D4 swingweight so you might want to re-think your ideas about that or add lead tape yourself.

Edited December 2, 2021 by WristySwing

[larryd3]

how about adding some lead tape to the club heads just to see if that helps?  Not saying it's a long term solution but might give you some good info going forward.  

[Writethewrongs]

Did you see the examples of ZX-7 irons? 

[dmbrill719]

Heavier graphite iron shafts are a pain to swingweight due to the small hole at the tip of the shaft.  I'm not sure how many inches it would go, but getting 8 grams into a steelfiber 115 would probably require a few inches of tungsten powder (I never use tungsten powder, so I might be wrong on this).

 

Cut them down 1/4", grip them up, then lead tape them to where they need to be.  Then, don't use truefit anymore.

 

 

[Writethewrongs]

1 hour ago, WristySwing said:

I haven't ordered from them before but in my experience reading these types of threads it seems more and more common that these Top 100 Clubfitters pay some sort of fee to be advertised in Golf Digest vs. actually working their way up into the upper echelon of club making through actual skill.  The way I see it, you have two possible outcomes.  First, is you message the owner and tell them you want your money back and your clubs reshafted back to what was in them because any issues with the SW should have been denoted ahead of time.  They are correct that Steelfibers are a bit of a pain to swingweight, add on to that you are dealing with a 15g lighter shaft and shorter length.  It doesn't surprise me that they weren't able to target D3-D4 as that is not possible really using your components of choice.  However, that should have been disclosed at the onset.  The other option is you just chalk it up to a lesson learned, eat the cost of the shafts and walk away from the situation and look for someone else to help you in your build goals.  I must stress though that going short + light + counterweighted (as some SF are) is not conducive to D3-D4 swingweight so you might want to re-think your ideas about that or add lead tape yourself.

Did you see the example I used with ZX-7? Haha you must be the owner of Truefitclubs😄

[Writethewrongs]

20 minutes ago, dmbrill719 said:

Heavier graphite iron shafts are a pain to swingweight due to the small hole at the tip of the shaft.  I'm not sure how many inches it would go, but getting 8 grams into a steelfiber 115 would probably require a few inches of tungsten powder (I never use tungsten powder, so I might be wrong on this).

 

Cut them down 1/4", grip them up, then lead tape them to where they need to be.  Then, don't use truefit anymore.

 

 

That doesn't make any sense. You put a plug in and pour powder down the butt of the shaft. Or tip weights can be used. If I wanted to add lead tape and change where I grip the club I wouldn't have used their services. None of this explains how the longer shafts came out even lighter. Hopefully someone with some club fitting experience can chime in.

[taylorx300]

The SF shafts by design on where the weight is placed in that shaft ( higher ) is why EVERY club builder will struggle to meet expected or demanded sw requests. Couple that with what has been previously stated about using any kind of tip weight with these shafts is a big pita. You do know that most manufacturers have two different head weights? 

[dmbrill719]

47 minutes ago, Writethewrongs said:

That doesn't make any sense. You put a plug in and pour powder down the butt of the shaft. Or tip weights can be used. If I wanted to add lead tape and change where I grip the club I wouldn't have used their services. None of this explains how the longer shafts came out even lighter. Hopefully someone with some club fitting experience can chime in.

 

Multiple people with club fitting experience have chimed in (me included).  The narrower the diameter in the shaft, the higher up tungsten will go in the shaft.  That is pretty basic.  The higher up the tungsten, the less each additional gram impacts SW.

 

Heavier tip weights for graphite will change the shaft insertion depth.  Since I don't have a steelfiber FC 115 reg and stiff with me, I can't comment on balance point.  But there is more to SW than head weight, grip weight and shaft length.

 

You mentioned you've been playing about a decade, so you're relatively new.  I suggest you take the advice of more seasoned golfers.  It's kind of silly (very silly) to play the incorrect length due to trying to hit a SW number (that you're manipulating using grip weight).

[jj9000]

Trueclubs should have known and disclosed the issues swingweighting SteelFIbers...especially at shortened length.

 

If I were in your position, I'd get my money back from Trueclubs...and have them build up my original set with the original shafts.

 

Also...you now have the knowledge to understand that it's very unlikely you're going to get to your desired SW with those shafts...under length (without lead tape).

 

I have i95s...i110s...and i125s in my garage...and I know firsthand how difficult it is to get the SW correct (even at standard and overlength).

 

BTW...If you're just chasing a SW number...slap some GolfPride Tour 25s on there and be done with it.

 

 

[WristySwing]

2 hours ago, Writethewrongs said:

Did you see the example I used with ZX-7? Haha you must be the owner of Truefitclubs😄

 

Fine, don't listen to what I said.  Moron.

[jj9000]

31 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

Fine, don't listen to what I said.  Moron.

 

Don't take it personal.  You are correct in everything you wrote.

 

One of the reasons why those ZX7s swingweight out to D3 may be the stock Modus 120 are very tip-heavy to begin with (and may have brass tip weights to fine-tune).  Very easy to do with steel shafts.  Not so easy with SteelFibers.

 

I don't think the OP understands that the inside diameter of Steelfibers look nothing like steel.  So, it's not quite as easy as dropping a brass tip weight in there and moving along.  I've installed my fair share of shaved down tungsten flakes mixed with epoxy to understand the challenge.  It's also not easy to pour tungsten down the butt-end and cork it.  Why?  Because the inside diameter is about 1/8-1/4 the size of a steel butted iron shaft.

 

OP...get your money back and move on.

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by jj9000

[JCAG]

Wright

 

No reflection on True Fit Golf, but what made you chose them to re-shaft your clubs? Their web site only talks about fitting, not club repair. The Top 100 Fitters is not the Top 100 Clubmakers. The Top 100 is tricky as they will list a Chain Store but not the specific fitter. Who knows who is working when one goes there.

 

As soon as one of their "clubmakers" looked at the order, he should have known they could not reach your goal and they should have called you and discussed it.

[WristySwing]

47 minutes ago, jj9000 said:

 

Don't take it personal.  You are correct in everything you wrote.

 

One of the reasons why those ZX7s swingweight out to D3 may be the stock Modus 120 are very tip-heavy to begin with (and may have brass tip weights to fine-tune).  Very easy to do with steel shafts.  Not so easy with SteelFibers.

 

I don't think the OP understands that the inside diameter of Steelfibers look nothing like steel.  So, it's not quite as easy as dropping a brass tip weight in there and moving along.  I've installed my fair share of shaved down tungsten flakes mixed with epoxy to understand the challenge.  It's also not easy to pour tungsten down the butt-end and cork it.  Why?  Because the inside diameter is about 1/8-1/4 the size of a steel butted iron shaft.

 

OP...get your money back and move on.

 

 

 

 

I'm more upset that after taking my time to write that and give them suggestions the only comment they can come up with was calling me an idiot in a snarky, tongue in cheek manner.  Despite the fact three or four other posters said the exact same thing as I did.

[Writethewrongs]

Who called you an "idiot?" I am seeking answers but so far have been given responses that don't make logical sense. How is it that 1/4" longer shafts came out even lighter? The last response from the owner is that he contacted the production dept and found out my request to make them longer wasn't fulfilled. The build sheet says they are longer. I measured them, they are 1/4" longer. It sounds like what is being said is that the balance point of the shaft is the overall deciding factor on sw, head weight and grip weight be damned. If these are high launching high balance point shafte, Aerotech doesn't make mention of this. If this is just going to be a pile on session on how I'm "new" then your response is better served elsewhere. To be exact, I have been golfing for 12 years, last time I had an index it was 7.1 and I even have a degree in golf to include club building experience. To the poster that mentioned manufacturers having multiple headweights, that is rare and only Callaway does this SOMETIMES. There may be more but it is not common. Thanks for your inputs, no further replies necessary.

[Valtiel]

I agree with that above posters in that:

1) Steelfibers are often higher balance point shafts and always have thicker, narrower tips, like most heavy weight graphite iron shafts. These are two things that will make adding weight difficult, especially the amount of weight necessary to achieve slightly higher than standard swingweights and shorter than standard lengths. 
2) Any competent fitter should be fully aware of all this and NOT taken on a build that couldn't be fulfilled. You wouldn't necessarily be expected to know all this when going in, but they should. 
3) Everything that Wristyswing said was accurate and helpful, and laughing at him in response + dismissing what he said out of hand resulted in the response you deserved. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Valtiel

[dlow206]

Don't think you are supposed to put tungsten powder in a graphite shaft to begin with

[taylorx300]

I’m done here-you don’t want to listen to posters that know more knowledge than you supposedly do.

[m_w]

2 hours ago, Writethewrongs said:

Who called you an "idiot?" I am seeking answers but so far have been given responses that don't make logical sense. How is it that 1/4" longer shafts came out even lighter? The last response from the owner is that he contacted the production dept and found out my request to make them longer wasn't fulfilled. The build sheet says they are longer. I measured them, they are 1/4" longer. It sounds like what is being said is that the balance point of the shaft is the overall deciding factor on sw, head weight and grip weight be damned. If these are high launching high balance point shafte, Aerotech doesn't make mention of this. If this is just going to be a pile on session on how I'm "new" then your response is better served elsewhere. To be exact, I have been golfing for 12 years, last time I had an index it was 7.1 and I even have a degree in golf to include club building experience. To the poster that mentioned manufacturers having multiple headweights, that is rare and only Callaway does this SOMETIMES. There may be more but it is not common. Thanks for your inputs, no further replies necessary.

 

Dude, just listen to what the people are actually writing here. I'm sorry to say but you come across as super immature and petulant. If you know everything and you have "a degree in golf" why do you even post here if you just look for affirmation of your own opinion? 

 

As others have said, have them build back the original shafts and then do it yourself. Should be no problem to hit those SW's with your degree in golf.

[WristySwing]

4 hours ago, Writethewrongs said:

Who called you an "idiot?" I am seeking answers but so far have been given responses that don't make logical sense. How is it that 1/4" longer shafts came out even lighter? The last response from the owner is that he contacted the production dept and found out my request to make them longer wasn't fulfilled. The build sheet says they are longer. I measured them, they are 1/4" longer. It sounds like what is being said is that the balance point of the shaft is the overall deciding factor on sw, head weight and grip weight be damned. If these are high launching high balance point shafte, Aerotech doesn't make mention of this. If this is just going to be a pile on session on how I'm "new" then your response is better served elsewhere. To be exact, I have been golfing for 12 years, last time I had an index it was 7.1 and I even have a degree in golf to include club building experience. To the poster that mentioned manufacturers having multiple headweights, that is rare and only Callaway does this SOMETIMES. There may be more but it is not common. Thanks for your inputs, no further replies necessary.

 

Well, then you obviously didn't learn much.  Mizuno has different head weights, Titleist has different head weights, Ping too.  You've been golfing for 12 years, I've been fitting and building for almost 20, I have worked at one of the most premier fitting studios in the world that everyone on this forum knows about by name, and been golfing for 30 years, so maybe check yourself before you start puffing your chest around like a know-it-all, you never know who you are talking to on an anonymous forum.  You are assuming that head weights you posted from Maltby are universal.  If you have a degree in club building then you would understand that club head weights are rarely if ever on spec.  Further, Mizuno are extremely light comparatively to a lot of companies.  Your 6i is 3g lighter than a traditional 6i headweight of 265g, something you would find from a high-spec company like Miura, for example.  There's 1.5 swingweight points accounted for right there.

 

Aerotech doesn't need to disclose that their shafts are backweighted, just like Project X and KBS don't either, but that doesn't change the fact that they are and they swingweight out quite light because of this.  The club heads coming out lighter at 1/4" longer is weird, I'll give you that but it can be explained by them not using as much tip weighting or tungsten powder because they were longer and felt it unnecessary.  Heck, it could even be something as easy as they used a little less epoxy this time, heavier tape, an extra wrap of tape, etc.  However, have you calibrated your SW scale recently?  They can change and often are slightly different from one person's to the next.

 

As we have all said to you, there are two easy fixes here.  1) Get your money back from TrueFit they are the one's that messed up so no sense in getting pissy with us when we are giving you solutions.  2) Solve the problem like any person with a degree in club building would do, rip them apart and build them yourself or spend five stinking dollars on a roll of lead tape and do it yourself.  

Edited December 3, 2021 by WristySwing

[trhode]

Trueclubs and Truefitclubs are 2 totally different companies. Be careful of what you type. 

[Howard_Jones]

On 12/2/2021 at 4:56 AM, Writethewrongs said:

Has anyone ever had clubs built from Truefitclubs? Several weeks ago I had them reshaft my irons from DG S300 to Aerotech Steelfiber fc 115 cw. I requested they be 1/2" short and wanted a sw of D3 with pw being D4. After paying for the order and paying for shipping,  I received clubs which were regular flex when I ordered stiff. The sw also varied from C9 to a max weight of D1. They stated my desired swingweight was not acheievable due to using graphite shafts and not wanting to add more than 8g of tungsten powder.

 

After noticing the error, I had them install the correct flex and instead make clubs 1/4" short to preserve as much sw as possible. After waiting and receiving the clubs again, the longer shafts are lighter than the shorter shafts! Every 1/2" affects sw by 3pts. The longer shafts now have a max sw of D0,  with many of them being C9. By default,  a longer shaft HAS to have a higher sw.

 

Srixon ZX-7 have a stock sw of D3 with a 114g shaft and 52g grip. The 5i is 38." If these shafts are cut .5" that would make sw D0,  in which case 6g of tungsten powder could be used to add 3 sw points. The shafts I ordered are 113g according to Truefitclubs and the grips I selected are 47g. To make it even more simple,  I am using MP-68 irons which are a heavier head than ZX-7 heads. Heavier heads plus lighter grips should have left no problems with giving me the sw I ordered. For shafts that are flighted to be stiffer in short irons and softer in the longer irons,  it makes no sense that the 4i is the stiffest iron in the set.

 

I have been in contact with the owner where he blames shaft model and flex for being the culprit to not providing the feel that is lacking.

 

As it stands,  I am left with irons that are too long with a head I cannot feel. Yes  that .25" makes a big difference. I looked like a complete fool at the range hitting every single shot fat or thin. For the first time in over a decade of golfing,  I did not finish the bucket at the range. On their website, Truefitclubs claims to be a Golf Digest top 100 clubfitter. Has anyone ever ordered from them before?

I dont know that company, and i dont have balance point specs for the shaft model you play, but it seems like Steelfiber has progressive BP from model to model due to weight.
Higher weight = higher BP

Shooting for a SW value is not a good idea, but its more than just possible to build a set to your specs with those components, but far from all club makers would know how to do it.

We simply need to start by hosel drilling, and make a weight port below the shaft tip, so we can exchange that steel with a Tungsten weight. Most club heads can be hosel drilled down by up to 10 grams, and since the density off steel is 7.9 grams ccm3 while Tungsten is 19.35 grams ccm3.  
- That means we can exchange 7.9 grams of steel with 19.35 gram of tungsten. (gaining up to 11.45 grams vs standard this way, and even more if we remove 10 grams)

So, the specs you ask for is more than possible, and its quite easy to make if you know whats needed to be done and how to do it. If you was in Europe, i could have helped out, but shipping cost alone would be silly high, but now you know whats needed to get there.

Tom Wishon / Diamond Golf in UK has the needed Tungsten plugs as 6 or 9 grams, plus a 9 gram tip weight in tungsten for Graphite.



im adding my hosel drilling chart, in case you have to get this mods done.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[Howard_Jones]

Here is a compare of shaft balance points, but i dont have specs for the actual model, but it seems like Steelfiber has a progressive BP where higher shaft wgt = higher balance point.

 

[WristySwing]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

Here is a compare of shaft balance points, but i dont have specs for the actual model, but it seems like Steelfiber has a progressive BP where higher shaft wgt = higher balance point.

 

 

Here you are, Howard.  Balance point of the DG vs. a SF 110.  I don't have data for the FC115 that the OP bought but at least it proves we aren't crazy, there's about a 0.5" difference in the balance point between a typical S300 and a SF110, with the SF being higher.  

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by WristySwing

[Howard_Jones]

27 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

Here you are, Howard.  Balance point of the DG vs. a SF 110.  I don't have data for the FC115 that the OP bought but at least it proves we aren't crazy, there's about a 0.5" difference in the balance point between a typical S300 and a SF110, with the SF being higher.  

 

I already had 1 model named 110i so its strange if the CW (taper) is different
This one you post has a BP 52.15% up from the butt, the one i have in my DB has the BP 51.22% from the butt. Converted to 39.00" uncut as my DB is based on, it means 20.33 inch vs 19.975" and thats a large difference and a higher BP than KBS Tour.

I only build about a hand full of Steelfibers, and used the 9 gram tungsten wgt for graphite, and just reduced the length of the rod depending on wgt target. Those tip weights only needs 1/8" extra tip trim to fit.

[Writethewrongs]

17 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

I dont know that company, and i dont have balance point specs for the shaft model you play, but it seems like Steelfiber has progressive BP from model to model due to weight.
Higher weight = higher BP

Shooting for a SW value is not a good idea, but its more than just possible to build a set to your specs with those components, but far from all club makers would know how to do it.

We simply need to start by hosel drilling, and make a weight port below the shaft tip, so we can exchange that steel with a Tungsten weight. Most club heads can be hosel drilled down by up to 10 grams, and since the density off steel is 7.9 grams ccm3 while Tungsten is 19.35 grams ccm3.  
- That means we can exchange 7.9 grams of steel with 19.35 gram of tungsten. (gaining up to 11.45 grams vs standard this way, and even more if we remove 10 grams)

So, the specs you ask for is more than possible, and its quite easy to make if you know whats needed to be done and how to do it. If you was in Europe, i could have helped out, but shipping cost alone would be silly high, but now you know whats needed to get there.

Tom Wishon / Diamond Golf in UK has the needed Tungsten plugs as 6 or 9 grams, plus a 9 gram tip weight in tungsten for Graphite.



im adding my hosel drilling chart, in case you have to get this mods done.

Thank you for this. If shafts that were installed with the incorrect flex could reach D1, I don't see how 1/4" longer didn't come out heavier. They didn't have to be exactly D3 as I requested and paid for, but C9 is a long way from there. Again, I knew it was possible. If that makes me immature then so be it. 

[Writethewrongs]

15 hours ago, WristySwing said:

 

Here you are, Howard.  Balance point of the DG vs. a SF 110.  I don't have data for the FC115 that the OP bought but at least it proves we aren't crazy, there's about a 0.5" difference in the balance point between a typical S300 and a SF110, with the SF being higher.  

 

Ok, how about showing us the balance point of the shaft I mentioned?

[Howard_Jones]

15 minutes ago, Writethewrongs said:

Ok, how about showing us the balance point of the shaft I mentioned?

Its already written, its not in the DBs we have access to, and non of us is responsible for your clubs, so you should address your questions to the company you bought your clubs from.

[WristySwing]

8 hours ago, Writethewrongs said:

Ok, how about showing us the balance point of the shaft I mentioned?

 

As I said, I don't have that shaft in the database for whatever reason.  This is a third-party software that I pay a subscription to so I don't have the say of what goes into it.  As you can see though, when we get into the tour weighted SF shafts, the balance point moves progressively higher.  I can't say if this is the same for the FC model as it could be an entirely different design but I am hedging my bets it will be similar and fall somewhere between the 110CW and 125CW likely around 20.2" from the tip, so still around 0.6" or so higher than a Dynamic Gold.  

[WristySwing]

23 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

I already had 1 model named 110i so its strange if the CW (taper) is different
This one you post has a BP 52.15% up from the butt, the one i have in my DB has the BP 51.22% from the butt. Converted to 39.00" uncut as my DB is based on, it means 20.33 inch vs 19.975" and thats a large difference and a higher BP than KBS Tour.

I only build about a hand full of Steelfibers, and used the 9 gram tungsten wgt for graphite, and just reduced the length of the rod depending on wgt target. Those tip weights only needs 1/8" extra tip trim to fit.

 

Hey Howard, thanks for this.  I am not sure what the measurement degree is if it is converted or not.  The S3 software is a third party that is all done with a machine using lasers, cameras, and torsion on the shaft to figure this out.  For all I know its some sort of mathematically derived formula to figure it out.  At any rate, I grabbed the KBS Tour and Project X 6.0 for comparison here, two of the typically higher BP shafts (to me anyways) and we can see that the KBS is still king when compared directly by the same machine, coming out similar to the 125CW Steelfibre (see above post).